Slow death of a PC

[jidan1]

Hi everyone,

My PC is not working anymore and I need help in figuring out what part
is damaged so that I can buy a new part.
The VERY very strange thing is that it happened graudually, you might
call it slow death of a PC. I compare it to a person dying slowly from
cancer.
Everything started 2 weeks ago, I was working on my PC when it suddenly
froze/shut-off. By froze/shutt-off, I mean the monitor shut off and the
system stopped working, but the power leds harddisks,CDs, were still on
power.
After I pull the plug out and put in again, the PC works again. For the
moment I was just glad it worked. As days passed these strange
shut-offs happened more often, until 3 days ago, this time pulling the
plug off and on again didnt help at all. I left the PC alone for 4 days
and tried today again. VERY strangely it worked, but only for 1 hour
and stopped then totally.

I started the problem-diagnostic by removing all non-essential parts of
the PC. All was left in the PC was:
1) Power supply
2) Motherboard( with on-board graphic card) with a Pentium 4 CPU, and .
3) 2 x DDR RAM

Now, this is what happens when I press the ON switch: power supply fan
starts turning,
the power and harddisk led are turned on, but the screen is black. I
also noticed that the power switch is not working, hence I can not turn
the PC off by pressing the ON/OFF switch again, I rather have to pull
the plug off.

I am sure of:
1) Its not the monitor, because It worked somewhere else.
2) Its not the DDR, because I tried using each one seperatly and still
nothing happened.
3) Its not the power supply, because I tried a different power supply
and still nothing happened.

I came to the conculsion that it must be either the CPU or the
motherboard.
I would like to know which one you think is the damaged part, the CPU
or the motherboard so that I can replace it?
And I would like to know if the symptoms I described are truly that of
a damaged motherboard or CPU?

I am thankfull for ANY advice on this matter.
JJ

 

[Ghostrider]

Hi everyone,

My PC is not working anymore and I need help in figuring out what part
is damaged so that I can buy a new part.
The VERY very strange thing is that it happened graudually, you might
call it slow death of a PC. I compare it to a person dying slowly from
cancer.
Everything started 2 weeks ago, I was working on my PC when it suddenly
froze/shut-off. By froze/shutt-off, I mean the monitor shut off and the
system stopped working, but the power leds harddisks,CDs, were still on
power.
After I pull the plug out and put in again, the PC works again. For the
moment I was just glad it worked. As days passed these strange
shut-offs happened more often, until 3 days ago, this time pulling the
plug off and on again didnt help at all. I left the PC alone for 4 days
and tried today again. VERY strangely it worked, but only for 1 hour
and stopped then totally.

I started the problem-diagnostic by removing all non-essential parts of
the PC. All was left in the PC was:
1) Power supply
2) Motherboard( with on-board graphic card) with a Pentium 4 CPU, and .
3) 2 x DDR RAM

Now, this is what happens when I press the ON switch: power supply fan
starts turning,
the power and harddisk led are turned on, but the screen is black. I
also noticed that the power switch is not working, hence I can not turn
the PC off by pressing the ON/OFF switch again, I rather have to pull
the plug off.

I am sure of:
1) Its not the monitor, because It worked somewhere else.
2) Its not the DDR, because I tried using each one seperatly and still
nothing happened.
3) Its not the power supply, because I tried a different power supply
and still nothing happened.

I came to the conculsion that it must be either the CPU or the
motherboard.
I would like to know which one you think is the damaged part, the CPU
or the motherboard so that I can replace it?
And I would like to know if the symptoms I described are truly that of
a damaged motherboard or CPU?

I am thankfull for ANY advice on this matter.
JJ

It is probably the CPU. But before pronouncing sentence, remove
the heatsink/fan. Take a can of compressed air and clean out all
of the dust and lint that have accumulated between the heating fins
and on the blades of the fan. Clean the top of the CPU and base of
heatsink of thermal compound (90% isopropyl alcohol works fine).
Apply a dab of Arctic Silver 5 and spread evenly on CPU and re-
mount the heatsink fan. Turn on computer. If OK, then problem has
been solved. If not, then CPU becomes suspect. Check in a known,
working motherboard but be careful when moving CPU's around.

 

[JAD]

Hi everyone,

My PC is not working anymore and I need help in figuring out what part
is damaged so that I can buy a new part.
The VERY very strange thing is that it happened graudually, you might
call it slow death of a PC. I compare it to a person dying slowly from
cancer.
Everything started 2 weeks ago, I was working on my PC when it suddenly
froze/shut-off. By froze/shutt-off, I mean the monitor shut off and the
system stopped working, but the power leds harddisks,CDs, were still on
power.
After I pull the plug out and put in again, the PC works again. For the
moment I was just glad it worked. As days passed these strange
shut-offs happened more often, until 3 days ago, this time pulling the
plug off and on again didnt help at all. I left the PC alone for 4 days
and tried today again. VERY strangely it worked, but only for 1 hour
and stopped then totally.

I started the problem-diagnostic by removing all non-essential parts of
the PC. All was left in the PC was:
1) Power supply
2) Motherboard( with on-board graphic card) with a Pentium 4 CPU, and .
3) 2 x DDR RAM

Now, this is what happens when I press the ON switch: power supply fan
starts turning,
the power and harddisk led are turned on, but the screen is black. I
also noticed that the power switch is not working, hence I can not turn
the PC off by pressing the ON/OFF switch again, I rather have to pull
the plug off.

I am sure of:
1) Its not the monitor, because It worked somewhere else.
2) Its not the DDR, because I tried using each one seperatly and still
nothing happened.
3) Its not the power supply, because I tried a different power supply
and still nothing happened.

I came to the conculsion that it must be either the CPU or the
motherboard.
I would like to know which one you think is the damaged part, the CPU
or the motherboard so that I can replace it?
And I would like to know if the symptoms I described are truly that of
a damaged motherboard or CPU?

I am thankfull for ANY advice on this matter.
JJ

Well my first guess would have been the PSU. Most of the CPU / mother board
symptoms would be a dead board period. The symptom could be an over heat
problem.

 

[jidan1]

It is probably the CPU. But before pronouncing sentence, remove
the heatsink/fan. Take a can of compressed air and clean out all
of the dust and lint that have accumulated between the heating fins
and on the blades of the fan. Clean the top of the CPU and base of
heatsink of thermal compound (90% isopropyl alcohol works fine).
Apply a dab of Arctic Silver 5 and spread evenly on CPU and re-
mount the heatsink fan. Turn on computer. If OK, then problem has
been solved. If not, then CPU becomes suspect. Check in a known,
working motherboard but be careful when moving CPU's around.

I have tried before taking the CPU off and back again but with no hope.
I don't think its a heating problem because then It should work for a
short period before it turnsoff after I let it rest for more than 2
days.
Can you tell me please why you think its the CPU?

Thanks

 

[jidan1]

It is probably the CPU. But before pronouncing sentence, remove
the heatsink/fan. Take a can of compressed air and clean out all
of the dust and lint that have accumulated between the heating fins
and on the blades of the fan. Clean the top of the CPU and base of
heatsink of thermal compound (90% isopropyl alcohol works fine).
Apply a dab of Arctic Silver 5 and spread evenly on CPU and re-
mount the heatsink fan. Turn on computer. If OK, then problem has
been solved. If not, then CPU becomes suspect. Check in a known,
working motherboard but be careful when moving CPU's around.

BTW, I forgot to mention that the keyboard lights are off when I switch
the PC ON while the power leds and fans are on. Also there is no
beeping sound.
You still think its the CPU?

 

[apyankeefan]

I think it's the mobo. Seeing that it has onboard graphics card, And
your screen stays blank, that seems like the problem. I'm not for sure,
but thats what I think. You can take out your CPU, and try it in a
different mobo, to see If that will boot. If not, you've figured it
out!

Best of Luck
Allen Stalker

 

[Mxsmanic]

I have tried before taking the CPU off and back again but with no hope.
I don't think its a heating problem because then It should work for a
short period before it turnsoff after I let it rest for more than 2
days.

It may have been damaged by heat or other problems in the past, and
has now deteriorated to the point that it won't boot.

Can you tell me please why you think its the CPU?

There aren't many other possibilities if the fans turn and the disks
turn and you still get nothing when you turn the computer on. A
problem with other components would normally producing some sort of
beeping error in POST. Does the computer _sound_ like it's booting
when you turn it on? Do you hear it trying to boot off the primary
boot device? Is the fan on the CPU running at a good speed?

 

[Mxsmanic]

BTW, I forgot to mention that the keyboard lights are off when I switch
the PC ON while the power leds and fans are on. Also there is no
beeping sound.
You still think its the CPU?

Or the motherboard. To check this, you have to have another similar
machine into which you can swap the CPU. If the other machine works,
it's probably the motherboard; if the other machine doesn't work, it's
probably the CPU.

Are you overclocking? Is the CPU fan running well? Is the case well
ventilated? What brand of motherboard is it?

 

[Adam S]

My PC is not working anymore and I need help in figuring out what part

is damaged so that I can buy a new part.
The VERY very strange thing is that it happened graudually, you might
call it slow death of a PC. I compare it to a person dying slowly from
cancer.

You don't say how old your PC is, but a gradual death like this could be
caused by leaking motherboard capacitors that were around on motherboards
made about 3 years ago.

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=195

You can change the capacitors if they are leaking, but its only a bit more
money to get a new motherboard.

Adam S

 

[DH]

Hi everyone,

My PC is not working anymore and I need help in figuring out what part
is damaged so that I can buy a new part.
The VERY very strange thing is that it happened graudually, you might
call it slow death of a PC. I compare it to a person dying slowly from
cancer.
Everything started 2 weeks ago, I was working on my PC when it suddenly
froze/shut-off. By froze/shutt-off, I mean the monitor shut off and the
system stopped working, but the power leds harddisks,CDs, were still on
power.
After I pull the plug out and put in again, the PC works again. For the
moment I was just glad it worked. As days passed these strange
shut-offs happened more often, until 3 days ago, this time pulling the
plug off and on again didnt help at all. I left the PC alone for 4 days
and tried today again. VERY strangely it worked, but only for 1 hour
and stopped then totally.

I started the problem-diagnostic by removing all non-essential parts of
the PC. All was left in the PC was:
1) Power supply
2) Motherboard( with on-board graphic card) with a Pentium 4 CPU, and .
3) 2 x DDR RAM

Now, this is what happens when I press the ON switch: power supply fan
starts turning,
the power and harddisk led are turned on, but the screen is black. I
also noticed that the power switch is not working, hence I can not turn
the PC off by pressing the ON/OFF switch again, I rather have to pull
the plug off.

I am sure of:
1) Its not the monitor, because It worked somewhere else.
2) Its not the DDR, because I tried using each one seperatly and still
nothing happened.
3) Its not the power supply, because I tried a different power supply
and still nothing happened.

I came to the conculsion that it must be either the CPU or the
motherboard.
I would like to know which one you think is the damaged part, the CPU
or the motherboard so that I can replace it?
And I would like to know if the symptoms I described are truly that of
a damaged motherboard or CPU?

I am thankfull for ANY advice on this matter.
JJ

I had one similar just last week.

Short circuit the CMOS memory, take the battery out and leave it for 30 mins, then
refit, and reset CMOS.

Sounds minor, but did the trick in my instance, and costs nowt to try.

Good Luck

 

[jidan1]

Does the computer _sound_ like it's booting
when you turn it on? Do you hear it trying to boot off the primary
boot device? Is the fan on the CPU running at a good speed?

As I have just said, I removed all non-essential parts of the PC. So,
my PC has just a motherboard(with on-board graphic card), Pentium 4
CPU, and Power supply. Fan speed is fine but I dont see the BIOS screen
when I turn the PC on, or hear anything. Apart from the Fans turning
and the power LED lightning nothing happens.

 

[jidan1]

Or the motherboard. To check this, you have to have another similar
machine into which you can swap the CPU. If the other machine works,
it's probably the motherboard; if the other machine doesn't work, it's
probably the CPU.

Problem is nobody wants me playing with their PC internals.

Are you overclocking? Is the CPU fan running well? Is the case well
ventilated? What brand of motherboard is it?

Im not overclocking. The CPU fan is running well, I dont its a heating
problem, at least not now. Because otherwise it should work for a short
time, but now it doesnt work at all. Motherboard brand is Intel D845GBV
(http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bv/index.htm).

 

[jidan1]

You don't say how old your PC is, but a gradual death like this could be
caused by leaking motherboard capacitors that were around on motherboards
made about 3 years ago.

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=195

You can change the capacitors if they are leaking, but its only a bit more
money to get a new motherboard.

Adam S

Thanks for the link Adam. I bought my motherboard in the summer of
2002. My motherboard brand is Intel D845GBV
(http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bv/index.htm) and I remember it
was very expensive at that time.

I have seen all capacitors on the motherboard and they seem fine to me
(especially the large ones). But maybe I am wrong. Maybe I need to get
a multimeter and measure the conductance across the cap, however with
the naked eye I see nothing abnormal.

 

[jidan1]

I had one similar just last week.

Short circuit the CMOS memory, take the battery out and leave it for 30 mins, then
refit, and reset CMOS.

Sounds minor, but did the trick in my instance, and costs nowt to try.

Good Luck

Did it, but it didnt solve the problem. I also don't think these are
the syptoms of a low CMOS battery. If it is the case, they you should
at least see something on the screen or hear a beep sound.

 

[Michael Cecil]

Did it, but it didnt solve the problem. I also don't think these are
the syptoms of a low CMOS battery. If it is the case, they you should
at least see something on the screen or hear a beep sound.

Take it down to parts and rebuild it.

Remove the RAM and unmount the CPU. Unplug any remaining cards. Unplug
the power to the PSU. Wait a few minutes. Carefully reseat the CPU
(taking care of course to apply thermal paste and the heatsink). Reseat
one stick of RAM and the video card. Leave all the drives disconnected.
Power it up and see if you get a BIOS screen on the monitor.

 

[Mxsmanic]

Problem is nobody wants me playing with their PC internals.

Well, short of that, it's going to be difficult to narrow it down
between the CPU and the motherboard. With the symptoms you describe,
it could be either.

Im not overclocking. The CPU fan is running well, I dont its a heating
problem, at least not now. Because otherwise it should work for a short
time, but now it doesnt work at all.

A CPU, once severely overheated, may slowly fail thereafter, even if
it isn't overheated again. That has happened to me on two machines,
after the CPU fans silently failed. So it's a possibility.

However, I'll agree that it isn't likely to be a heating problem,
provided that the thermal stuff under the heat sink is making good
contact. Did you ever try motherboard monitor to actually check the
temps?

Is this PC on a UPS, or plugged right into the wall? Any
thunderstorms where you live? Any power outages? A clean power
failure isn't normally a problem, but I've seen problems after
brownouts, or after power failures where the power flickers on and
off, restarting the PC several times over a period of seconds. I
think in some cases this can push a CPU over the edge, or perhaps
other components--although you'd think the PSU would take the brunt of
the damage.

 

[q_q_anonymous]

As I have just said, I removed all non-essential parts of the PC. So,
my PC has just a motherboard(with on-board graphic card), Pentium 4
CPU, and Power supply. Fan speed is fine but I dont see the BIOS screen
when I turn the PC on, or hear anything. Apart from the Fans turning
and the power LED lightning nothing happens.

I'm not sure that you can diagnose if it's CPU or MBRD without swapping
one of them.

Personally, i'd blame the motherboard, because they tend to fail more
often than CPUs.

My CPU is properly cooled, the only time I ever had a problem was when
I bought a CPU from ebay, I got an error when installing windows.

I'd be suprised if the CPU is so dead that you can't get to the BIOS.

I wonder if a POST card will help, but maybe not, since it isn't even
beeping.

Maybe your power supply killed your MBRD, you might want to check your
power supply with a multimeter to see how much of a suspect it is.

..

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

Adam S wrote

I bought my motherboard in the summer of
2002. My motherboard brand is Intel D845GBV
(http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bv/index.htm)
and I remember it was very expensive at that time.

Those do have a reputation for not usually seeing bad caps.

I have seen all capacitors on the motherboard and they seem fine to
me (especially the large ones). But maybe I am wrong. Maybe I need
to get a multimeter and measure the conductance across the cap,

You actually need to measure the ESR.

however with the naked eye I see nothing abnormal.

Its certainly possible that its a cpu that has been
killed by severe overheating if a fan died etc.

Only really one way to distinguish between a bad motherboard
and bad cpu, swap one. Easier to swap the cpu and since the
caps look fine and that motherboard doesnt usually have bad
caps, I'd personally try another cpu.

 

[w_tom]

Procedure for a solution has been posted many times previously such
as in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general on 7 Jun 2006 entitled
"Dead computer" or at
http://tinyurl.com/qcvuq

Start by breaking the problem into parts. For example, first verify
power supply system. From what is posted, nothing says that system is
working. This procedure can isolate possible problems to power supply,
power supply controller, or switch.

Once power supply system is confirmed, only then move on to other
possible suspects. First step to a solution was described previously
in that other newsgroup.

Possible that this problem could have been detected by above
procedure back when the problem caused a shutdown weeks ago. Having
made so many changes, further 'elimination' should not be necessary
until after the above test completes. Fan spinning and light
illuminated tell us little that is useful. It only says power cord is
connected to live electricity.

First establish power supply 'system' integrity with the 3.5 digit
multimeter. Yes, the system is more than just a power supply. Later
you can continue with the few remaining suspects. A power supply,
motherboard, CPU, speaker (no Ram, keyboard, mouse, video controller,
etc) should still cause a speaker beep on power up. But this second
test is only informative after above procedure using the multimeter.

 

[John Doe]

This is trivia, but IMO amusing.
Tom shows up within hours after this post.

Subject: Computer won't turn on after power outage
Date: 15 Aug 2006 18:34:44 -0700
Message-ID: <1155692084.817177.104330 h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>

"My computer is connected to a surge protector, so it usually won't
have the typical power problems..."

It's like a summoning.



....