service pack 3, do I need it?

P

Pdigmking

I've been automatically updating windows XP for years, I upgraded to SP2
when it came out. I'm reading about SP3 here and it's described as
basically just a bundle of all the post SP2 updates with a couple extra
features for networks. I have two questions. First: will my automatic
update automatically download and attempt to install SP3? Second: Do I
really need SP3? Frankly, since the change to XP I've never noticed any
differnce in performance associated with any of these updates, and my
machines are working just fine. I don't rely on Windows software for
security, and I don't use windows software for internet functions, e-mail,
browsing, etc. If I pass on SP3, will I be able to get future updatas?

Paul
 
L

Leonard Grey

"I don't rely on Windows software for security, and I don't use windows
software for internet functions, e-mail, browsing, etc."

I didn't know that software written for a different operating system
installed on Windows. How were you able to do that?
 
S

Shenan Stanley

Pdigmking said:
I've been automatically updating windows XP for years, I upgraded
to SP2 when it came out. I'm reading about SP3 here and it's
described as basically just a bundle of all the post SP2 updates
with a couple extra features for networks. I have two questions.
First: will my automatic update automatically download and attempt
to install SP3? Second: Do I really need SP3? Frankly, since the
change to XP I've never noticed any differnce in performance
associated with any of these updates, and my machines are working
just fine. I don't rely on Windows software for security, and I
don't use windows software for internet functions, e-mail,
browsing, etc. If I pass on SP3, will I be able to get future
updates?

Since you do not use "windows software for internet functions, e-mail,
browsing, etc", I assume you actually have Linux/OSX installed and have some
sort of virtual machine for Windows and it has not access at all to the
Internet - you mearly pass files to it through the virtual machine software
(updates and such)... If that is the case - you certainly have no need for
the updates that Microsoft puts out.

If, however, your message is misunderstood and you do have Windows XP
installed and connected to the Internet and use programs installed on
Windows XP (whether they came with Windows XP or you installed them is of no
concern) to utilize basic Internet functions (from just connecting with your
network card and the built-in TCP/IP functionality to e-mail applications,
Internet browsers, etc) - then you might want to consider staying up to
date.

As far as 'needing' SP3 - no. You don't obviously *need* Windows. You
don't *need* to use the Internet for thaqt matter. Or do you - I actually
cannot say what it is that drives you on a daily basis from this single
posting.

I do know that if you plan on continuing to run Windows XP and that Windows
XP has access to the Internet (no matter whose products you install on top
of it) - you should at least consider applying whatever patches that fill
whatever security holes in the base OS that become available to you.

SP3 is a culmination of patches released (public and otherwise) since
Windows XP SP2 was released as well as a few minor changes. That means -
given your statement, "I've been automatically updating windows XP for
years", you'll probably only have 60-70MB of patchess/change you don't
already have installed. Whethe you get them or not is (always has been)
completely up to you. Sooner or later - it will become necessary (as it did
with SP2) to obtain the last service pack released before you can install
any further updates for the OS. That time may be a couple of years off. So
you get to make the decision (as always) of what you want to do or not do
and live with whatever consequences come of it. ;-)
 
P

Pdigmking

Since you do not use "windows software for internet functions, e-mail,
browsing, etc", I assume you actually have Linux/OSX installed and
have some sort of virtual machine for Windows and it has not access at
all to the Internet - you mearly pass files to it through the virtual


I mispoke, I meant to say that I don't rely on MS software, I wasn't
referring to the operating system. Obviously, I'm using Windows.

Paul.
 
C

Craig

Pdigmking said:
I've been automatically updating windows XP for years, I upgraded to SP2
when it came out. I'm reading about SP3 here and it's described as
basically just a bundle of all the post SP2 updates with a couple extra
features for networks. I have two questions. First: will my automatic
update automatically download and attempt to install SP3? Second: Do I
really need SP3? Frankly, since the change to XP I've never noticed any
differnce in performance associated with any of these updates, and my
machines are working just fine. I don't rely on Windows software for
security, and I don't use windows software for internet functions, e-mail,
browsing, etc. If I pass on SP3, will I be able to get future updatas?

Paul

Like you, I've been up-to-date with the past Windows Updates. Still, SP3
had about 70MB to download (at least that's better than the full SP3
standalone file of something like 500-600 MB) and install.

I'm not sure about the automatic Windows Update but expect it may do that,
given enough time. Unless/Until you hear differently, if you don't want SP3,
you might want to be safe and turn off Auto Windows Update and proceed with
Windows Update manually where you can choose to accept or ignore SP3. But
unless you have a specific reason to fear doing the upgrade, you may just
want to go ahead and become a SP3 user.

Contrary to what I had been told earlier, I'm pretty sure that SP3 will
install .NET Framework Version 2 and 3 (or is it 3.5?), complete with their
service packs. It doesn't install .NET 1.1 and I'm unsure if it would update
a PC's version 1.1 if found on a PC.

Craig
 
P

Pdigmking

A little less "snot" would make these responses more helpful.

Why should I install a service pack that will simply re-inatall a bunch
of patches that I've aleady downlaoded? I use the internet, one could
deduce that given the fact that I am posting to newsgroup via the
internet. I need SP3 because I use the internet? According to the MS
PDF there is nothing critical in the new service pack, the only thing in
it that I've not already downloaded as a matter of course is some network
functions and IT functions that I won't use. It seems silly to sit around
for an hour running a service pack this is installing a bunch of stuff
that I've already installed. Am I missing something here?

As far as future upgrades are concerned, my installer has been upgraded a
couple times already. Why should I need an entire service pack to
continue to get patches? Why not just update the installer I (and
others) are using now?

I worry about these large MS service packs. SP3 has crashed some
systems, and MS response seems to be "that's your problem". I ended up
switching to XP from 98 because 98 literally ate itself after a patch
install. XP has been stable and trouble free, but now MS is pushing
Vista, and judging from the Vista on my wifes new laptop, I don't need
it. I'm using a PC that I built, and have maintained for over 6 years.
While it clocks as fast on most proceedures as my new laptops with
supposedly faster technology i.e. dual core processors, faster RAM etc.,
it does have some old components. One of the problems with Vista has
been that it simply won't run on machines with older technology. One of
the things I noticed in the MS PDF was that SP3 was that it includes some
kind of patch for running Vista compatable software on XP machines, this
makes me nervous. Does SP3 contain some Vista stuff that I don't need
but will crash my computer?

Paul
 
P

Pdigmking

Contrary to what I had been told earlier, I'm pretty sure that SP3
will
install .NET Framework Version 2 and 3 (or is it 3.5?), complete with
their service packs. It doesn't install .NET 1.1 and I'm unsure if it
would update a PC's version 1.1 if found on a PC.

Craig


Thanks Craig. What is .NET Frame, and why should I have versions 2 and 3?
 
S

Shenan Stanley

Pdigmking said:
A little less "snot" would make these responses more helpful.

Why should I install a service pack that will simply re-inatall a
bunch of patches that I've aleady downlaoded? I use the internet,
one could deduce that given the fact that I am posting to newsgroup
via the internet. I need SP3 because I use the internet?
According to the MS PDF there is nothing critical in the new
service pack, the only thing in it that I've not already downloaded
as a matter of course is some network functions and IT functions
that I won't use. It seems silly to sit around for an hour running
a service pack this is installing a bunch of stuff that I've
already installed. Am I missing something here?

As far as future upgrades are concerned, my installer has been
upgraded a couple times already. Why should I need an entire
service pack to continue to get patches? Why not just update the
installer I (and others) are using now?

I worry about these large MS service packs. SP3 has crashed some
systems, and MS response seems to be "that's your problem". I
ended up switching to XP from 98 because 98 literally ate itself
after a patch install. XP has been stable and trouble free, but
now MS is pushing Vista, and judging from the Vista on my wifes new
laptop, I don't need it. I'm using a PC that I built, and have
maintained for over 6 years. While it clocks as fast on most
proceedures as my new laptops with supposedly faster technology
i.e. dual core processors, faster RAM etc., it does have some old
components. One of the problems with Vista has been that it simply
won't run on machines with older technology. One of the things I
noticed in the MS PDF was that SP3 was that it includes some kind
of patch for running Vista compatable software on XP machines, this
makes me nervous. Does SP3 contain some Vista stuff that I don't
need but will crash my computer?

No "snot" - reality may seem like "snot" to you - but you are asking other
people whether or not *you* need to do something.

I figure the best person to know whether or not they need to do something is
the person asking. I have no idea of your needs/wants - I have no idea of
anything about you. You have walked into a room of total strangers and
asked, "Do I need the bee keeper outfit?" but never stated whether or not
you dealt with bees. ;-P

I gave you a straight answer. Only you know what you need. I could explain
until I am blue in the face why I need/want SP3 - but you may not understand
it or you may not care why *I* need it. ;-)

Windows XP SP3 and Vista... The only thing I can think of is the change in
the Remote Desktop Client to allow one to connect to a NLA protected remote
desktop session on a Vista machine - perhaps someone else knows more
'crossover' that this SP includes.

I am confused by this paragraph of yours:
As far as future upgrades are concerned, my installer has been
upgraded a couple times already. Why should I need an entire
service pack to continue to get patches? Why not just update the
installer I (and others) are using now?

So - if I am understanding that correctly - you have been integrating
patches/service packs into your Windows XP Installation Media? And you seem
to be saying that you will do this anyway - which means you will be
integrating service pack 3 insto the installation media. What would be the
point of that unless you are running it on your system already?

Everytime something large (like a service pack) comes out - some people have
issues. Fact of the business. Milions of software/hardware combinations -
someone is going to be using something in a way not tested for and that
small percentage of the total user base will experience issues. Then people
begin coming here and posting about those issues and then others come in and
say, "Look how many people are having trouble, it must mean the software is
broken!" It's like walking into a hospital emergency room and saying, "Look
at all the sick people, the world must be in a pandemic!"

Last thing - If it takes an hour to install on your machine - something else
is wrong. ;-) Either that machine is reaching EoL, or you have some other
issues going on. So far - worst case was 30 minutes - and that machine was
far beyond its EoL. Now if you are including download time - understood -
you may have slower download speed. ;-)

In the end - you asked for opinions and you got one from me. Mine is, "only
you know what you need/want." I gave you some facts (sooner or later you
will need to install SP3 to be able to install on your working PC some
patches just like you now need SP2 to download and install some patches on
your working machine; It is *not* just a patch roll-up - mainly yes - but it
does contain a couple of other features and changes (some of which you may
never utilize - not knowing you - I don't know.) I know people still
happily using Windows 98 and Windows ME - so telling you that you *need*
some service pack for an OS - not my place.
 
S

Shenan Stanley

Pdigmking said:
I've been automatically updating windows XP for years, I upgraded
to SP2 when it came out. I'm reading about SP3 here and it's
described as basically just a bundle of all the post SP2 updates
with a couple extra features for networks. I have two questions. First:
will my automatic update automatically download and
attempt to install SP3? Second: Do I really need SP3? Frankly,
since the change to XP I've never noticed any differnce in
performance associated with any of these updates, and my machines
are working just fine. I don't rely on Windows software for
security, and I don't use windows software for internet functions,
e-mail, browsing, etc. If I pass on SP3, will I be able to get
future updatas?

<inline>
Like you, I've been up-to-date with the past Windows Updates.
Still, SP3 had about 70MB to download (at least that's better than
the full SP3 standalone file of something like 500-600 MB) and
install.

No. Full SP3 downloaded size is 331,808,768 bytes.
I'm not sure about the automatic Windows Update but expect it may
do that, given enough time. Unless/Until you hear differently, if
you don't want SP3, you might want to be safe and turn off Auto
Windows Update and proceed with Windows Update manually where you
can choose to accept or ignore SP3. But unless you have a specific
reason to fear doing the upgrade, you may just want to go ahead and
become a SP3 user.
Contrary to what I had been told earlier, I'm pretty sure that SP3
will install .NET Framework Version 2 and 3 (or is it 3.5?),
complete with their service packs. It doesn't install .NET 1.1 and
I'm unsure if it would update a PC's version 1.1 if found on a PC.

SP3 contains no .NET Frameworks or updates - nor does it require any that I
have found. There are many people out there without any .NET Frameworks -
1.1, 2.0. 30. or 3.5 (non-cumulative.)
 
C

Craig

...
:




Thanks Craig. What is .NET Frame, and why should I have versions 2 and 3?

I'm not the most knowledgeable user here so will let the others fill you
in with details. I think it's something like a Virtual Machine or Java,
whatever it is these things do for us...

From what I see on my PC and from what I've read here and elsewhere, you
only need a .NET Framework when some other software on your system requires
it. On my PC, I think that my Quicken needs .NET 2 and I know that .NET 2 is
needed for my "Driver Detective," my EMC backup software and I think my
income tax software. When installing a software package that requires a
non-present .NET Framework, you'll be told it's needed. Note that software
is built to work with a specific .NET Framework. In other words, if you have
software that requires .NET v2, you need to keep v2 on your PC even after
installing v3. As far as I know, SP3 adding .NET version 3 on my PC for
future possible use--it's not needed now by me. And since my PC works
without having .NET v1.1 present, I must have no software that requires it.
You can see if your system has a .NET Framework installed--it may already be
there. If you do a full Windows Update (not the recommended "Express"
Update), you'll be offered the three .NET (v 1.1, 2, and 3.x) if they're not
already on your system. If you don't see a version offered, then it's
already on your PC. And if you have one or more .NET Frameworks on your PC
but they're not up-to-date, you'll be offered patches or Service Packs for
them. If offered a .NET Framework update of any sort, then you system has
the basic .NET Framework of that version installed.

Regarding your earlier comment to in reply to someone else, using Windows
Update to download SP3 will NOT reinstall a bunch of patches you've already
done. The SP3 inspection/download process sees what your system has already
done and only downloads and installs the patches that are not present. As a
couple have pointed out in this thread, a SP3 upgrade on a previously
fully-patched PC will have about 60 MB of material to download--a PC that's
less up to date could require a SP3 download of several hundred MB up to
about 500-600 MB.

Craig
 
C

Craig

...
No. Full SP3 downloaded size is 331,808,768 bytes.


I stand corrected. I thought I had seen a link to the download of the
stand-alone that was mid-500MB but since I didn't need it, I'm probably
remembering wrong. It was much bigger than what I needed by using the
Windows Update method...

SP3 contains no .NET Frameworks or updates - nor does it require any that
I have found. There are many people out there without any .NET
Frameworks - 1.1, 2.0. 30. or 3.5 (non-cumulative.)

Hmm, what you say does agree with what I had been told shortly before SP3
became available. But I'm confused. Prior to installing SP3, my full (not
Express) Windows Update always reminded me that my .NET Framework v2 had a
Service Pack available to update it...and that I was offered .NET Framework
v 3 (or maybe it was 3.5) and .NET Framework 1.1 to install. I chose not to
install any of these three updates so all three offers were made each time I
did a full Windows Update. But now after installing SP3, I'm not being
offered a v2 update or an installation of 3. I am still offered the 1.1
installation. If SP3 didn't install and update .NET Framework 2 and 3, then
why am I no longer be offered these with Windows Update? I am curious and
confused right now. Thanks.

Craig
 
P

Pdigmking

No "snot" - reality may seem like "snot" to you - but you are asking
other people whether or not *you* need to do something.

"Snot" and "reality" are not mutually exclusive, you provide both.
Setting aside the high school debate mentality that pretends that the
definition of "need" is the primary focus of this discussion, look at my
questions once again: Why should I install a service pack that will
simply re-inatall a bunch of patches that I've aleady downlaoded?

So - if I am understanding that correctly - you have been integrating
patches/service packs into your Windows XP Installation Media? And
you seem to be saying that you will do this anyway - which means you
will be integrating service pack 3 insto the installation media. What
would be the point of that unless you are running it on your system
already?

You seem to telling me that I need to reinstall 70 MB of patches I've
already installed, in order to keep installing patches in the future. If
this is true, it is completely silly. MS could, as it has done in the
past, simply update the installer. This would be safer and much less
time consuming. If I've missed some update in the past, that' my problem
is it not? Making me re-install updates for my own good is suspicious,
what else is in there? I am not being paranoid here. MS has a long
history of rolling out big packages filled with bugs. Most of their
resources are now devoted to Vista; did the guys who put this SP together
really have the resources to make sure it's free of glitches? Apparently
not. Apparently they knew that some machines manufactured by HP would
lapse into a re-boot loop because of some kind of dual AMD/Intel imaging
deal. Yet they rolled it out anyways, and they're response to the HP
owners is: "that's your problem".
Everytime something large (like a service pack) comes out - some
people have issues. Fact of the business. Milions of
software/hardware combinations - someone is going to be using
something in a way not tested for and that small percentage of the
total user base will experience issues. Then people begin coming here
and posting about those issues and then others come in and say, "Look
how many people are having trouble, it must mean the software is
broken!" It's like walking into a hospital emergency room and saying,
"Look at all the sick people, the world must be in a pandemic!"

Whatever. This could be easily avoided by providing alternatives to large
updates by simply updating the installer so people like me can just keep
getting updates on top of the ones we've already installed. No one said
anything about pandemics, I've spent hours and hours tweaking my system,
loading programs, and setting their defaults to my liking. I don't want
to have to spend hours and hours re-doing all that because a big MS
update has crashed my system, been there, done that. This is not an
unreasonable concern, I am here in an attempt to figure out what my risk
exposure is.

Last thing - If it takes an hour to install on your machine -
something else is wrong. ;-) Either that machine is reaching EoL, or
you have some other issues going on. So far - worst case was 30
minutes - and that machine was far beyond its EoL. Now if you are
including download time - understood - you may have slower download
speed. ;-)

You have no way of knowing how long this process would take on my
machine. I have seen posts on other boards by people who said it took an
hour. You have no way of knowing what my "needs" are, but you know how
long this install would take, and you know that I need a new machine.
Interesting. I would suggest much like decisions about my "needs",
decisions about my machines EoL are mine to make, not yours.


It is *not* just a patch
roll-up - mainly yes - but it does contain a couple of other features
and changes (some of which you may never utilize - not knowing you - I
don't know.)

Again, what are these other components? Why don't you tell me what they
are, and I can then decide if I "need" them. That way you don't have to
worry your pretty little head about what I may or may not "need".

If I've been keeping my updates current, and my machines are running
well, what is the advantage to running this service pack? Is the only
advantage that someday, a couple years from now, I may not be able to
continue to downlaod updates? According to you guys there's 300 MB of
stuff in this SP, at least 70MB previous patches, but only a handfull of
stuff that's not previous downloads. What exactly is in the other 230MB?
Are they just loading a bunch of crap on my machine that I've already
decided I didn't want or need? The difference between XP and SP2 was
huge. But I'm not hearing that the difference between SP2 and 3 all that
great, aside from a "a couple features that I may or may not use". Again
am I missing something? Is there some significant change in OS with SP3?
If so, what is it? If not, what's the point? Why not just make the new
stuff available as an update?

Paul.
 
M

Maincat

Craig said:
...



I stand corrected. I thought I had seen a link to the download of the
stand-alone that was mid-500MB but since I didn't need it, I'm probably
remembering wrong. It was much bigger than what I needed by using the
Windows Update method...
That'll be the iso version. The iso version is the SP3 execuatble plus
installer front end that you can burn to CD.
 
P

Pdigmking

From what I see on my PC and from what I've read here and elsewhere,
you
only need a .NET Framework when some other software on your system
requires it. On my PC, I think that my Quicken needs .NET 2 and I know
that .NET 2 is needed for my "Driver Detective," my EMC backup
(snip)

How do I find out what if any version of Net Frame I already have?
Regarding your earlier comment to in reply to someone else, using
Windows
Update to download SP3 will NOT reinstall a bunch of patches you've
already done. The SP3 inspection/download process sees what your
system has already done and only downloads and installs the patches
that are not present. As a couple have pointed out in this thread, a
SP3 upgrade on a previously fully-patched PC will have about 60 MB of
material to download--a PC that's less up to date could require a SP3
download of several hundred MB up to about 500-600 MB.

Craig

Thanks for that. Again, I got my original info from the MS PDF which
described SP3 as a collection of previous patches amongst other things.
From that I got the incorrect impression that I would be re-loading
patches previously installed. So we're only talking about maybe 60-70MB
of additional stuff. What is this addititional stuff?

Paul.
 
C

Craig

...


Hmm, what you say does agree with what I had been told shortly before SP3
became available. But I'm confused. Prior to installing SP3, my full (not
Express) Windows Update always reminded me that my .NET Framework v2 had a
Service Pack available to update it...and that I was offered .NET
Framework v 3 (or maybe it was 3.5) and .NET Framework 1.1 to install. I
chose not to install any of these three updates so all three offers were
made each time I did a full Windows Update. But now after installing SP3,
I'm not being offered a v2 update or an installation of 3. I am still
offered the 1.1 installation. If SP3 didn't install and update .NET
Framework 2 and 3, then why am I no longer be offered these with Windows
Update? I am curious and confused right now. Thanks.

Craig

Shenan,

OK, I'm getting off the OP's questions, but in looking further, I believe
you are correct and SP3 does not add or update .NET Frameworks. In checking
through my "Add/Remove Programs" with "show updates," all that I see is my
original unservice-patched .NET 2. I do not see that my system has patched
..NET 2 or installed .NET 3 when installing SP3.

There is a problem still. Prior to installing SP3, Windows Update told me
I had a .NET 2 Service Pack available and that all of .NET 3 was also
available to add (as well as .NET 1.1). After upgrading my XP to SP3,
Windows Update (Custom, not Express) no longer offers me the upgrade to my
installed .NET 2 or the installation of .NET 3. I wonder if this is a
bug/oversight on MS's part post-SP3 and wonder if it'll be remedied in the
future to again offer me the various .NET Framework stuff.

Craig
 
S

Shenan Stanley

Pdigmking said:
"Snot" and "reality" are not mutually exclusive, you provide both.
Setting aside the high school debate mentality that pretends that
the definition of "need" is the primary focus of this discussion,
look at my questions once again: Why should I install a service
pack that will simply re-inatall a bunch of patches that I've
aleady downlaoded?



You seem to telling me that I need to reinstall 70 MB of patches
I've already installed, in order to keep installing patches in the
future. If this is true, it is completely silly. MS could, as it
has done in the past, simply update the installer. This would be
safer and much less time consuming. If I've missed some update in
the past, that' my problem is it not? Making me re-install updates
for my own good is suspicious, what else is in there? I am not
being paranoid here. MS has a long history of rolling out big
packages filled with bugs. Most of their resources are now devoted
to Vista; did the guys who put this SP together really have the
resources to make sure it's free of glitches? Apparently not.
Apparently they knew that some machines manufactured by HP would
lapse into a re-boot loop because of some kind of dual AMD/Intel
imaging deal. Yet they rolled it out anyways, and they're response
to the HP owners is: "that's your problem".


Whatever. This could be easily avoided by providing alternatives to
large updates by simply updating the installer so people like me
can just keep getting updates on top of the ones we've already
installed. No one said anything about pandemics, I've spent hours
and hours tweaking my system, loading programs, and setting their
defaults to my liking. I don't want to have to spend hours and
hours re-doing all that because a big MS update has crashed my
system, been there, done that. This is not an unreasonable
concern, I am here in an attempt to figure out what my risk
exposure is.



You have no way of knowing how long this process would take on my
machine. I have seen posts on other boards by people who said it
took an hour. You have no way of knowing what my "needs" are, but
you know how long this install would take, and you know that I need
a new machine. Interesting. I would suggest much like decisions
about my "needs", decisions about my machines EoL are mine to make,
not yours.


It is *not* just a patch

Again, what are these other components? Why don't you tell me what
they are, and I can then decide if I "need" them. That way you
don't have to worry your pretty little head about what I may or may
not "need".

If I've been keeping my updates current, and my machines are running
well, what is the advantage to running this service pack? Is the
only advantage that someday, a couple years from now, I may not be
able to continue to downlaod updates? According to you guys
there's 300 MB of stuff in this SP, at least 70MB previous patches,
but only a handfull of stuff that's not previous downloads. What
exactly is in the other 230MB? Are they just loading a bunch of
crap on my machine that I've already decided I didn't want or need?
The difference between XP and SP2 was huge. But I'm not hearing
that the difference between SP2 and 3 all that great, aside from a
"a couple features that I may or may not use". Again am I missing
something? Is there some significant change in OS with SP3? If so,
what is it? If not, what's the point? Why not just make the new
stuff available as an update?


Service packs are cumulative. They are not made *just for you* but for
everyone. They include all patches released (to the public and otherwise)
for the operating system including previous service packs. This makes it
easier for OEMs and IT people to integrate them into installs and roll them
out to the customers. It's the way it was done with SP1, SP1a (minus
JavaVM), SP2 (Plus lots of features) and now SP3 (plus minor features). SP1
for Vista as well.

Lots of testing is done - but I know of no way to test every possible
configuration. If you do - please start a business based on that. That
would be an unbelievable profit-maker!

SP3 - no matter how you get it - only installs parts it needs to install.
If you already have a patch it would have installed - it skips it. That's
how it works. Do you have all the following patches installed?

List of fixes that are included in Windows XP Service Pack 3
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946480/

The article clearly states that the list of fixes it shows were added to SP3
only. If you want to know what was included in SP2 or SP1a - they have
links in the article. ("The following fix list includes only the updates
that were added in Windows XP SP3.")

So - out of those 1174 additional fixes (yes - there are 1174 listed in SP3
alone) - how many do you have installed Post-SP2? I had about 100-120 on a
good day. ;-)

I still have no idea what you are trying to convey with 'update the
installer'; I would like to know, however.

Do you *need* those updates (as you ask in your subject line?) *shrug* -
nope. You'll likely live a long and happy life without them. Your computer
might stay running perfectly for many decades to come without SP3. You may
never change OSes, you may never upgrade applications and you may be
perfectly safe behind a router with your antivirus/antispyware running.

I do know that if you plan on continuing to receive updates say - in mid
2009-early 2010 and beyond - you'll likely need to have SP3 installed by
then. If SP1a and SP2 history show anything - it is that sooner or later,
in order to get new patches for the OS of your choice you have to have the
last service pack Microsoft released for said OS of your choice.
Otherwise - only if some third party vendor says their product is only
supported in Windows XP SP3 or above - will you have any further
'encouragement' to install SP3 onto your system.

BTW - I have to point out that if you have actually experienced this quote,
"I've spent hours and hours tweaking my system, loading programs, and
setting their defaults to my liking. I don't want to have to spend hours and
hours re-doing all that because a big MS update has crashed my system, been
there, done that."; I feel obliged to introduce you to backups. ;-) Take
advantage of the fact that the data (every bit - literally) on a computer
can be backed up and restored later - in case of a problem. If everything
in life was like that - things would be all good.

You can either manually copy your important files, folders,
documents, spreadsheets, emails, contacts, pictures, drawings and so on
to an external location (CD/DVD - any disk of some sort, etc) or you can
use the backup tool that comes with Windows XP:

How To Use Backup to Back Up Files and Folders on Your Computer
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308422

Yes - you still need some sort of external media to store the results
on, but you could schedule the backup to occur when you are not around,
then burn the resultant data onto CD or DVD or something when you are
(while you do other things!) External hard drives are inexpensive these
days - and I have yet to find someone who said, "I'm so mad at you for
suggesdting I spend $100 on that external hard drive. When my computer
crashed, I lost nothing!" ;-)

Another option (free):

Cobian Backup
http://www.educ.umu.se/~cobian/cobianbackup.htm

A lot of people have wondered about how to completely backup their system
so that they would not have to go through the trouble of a reinstall..
I'm going to voice my opinion here and say that it would be worthless to
do for MOST people. Unless you plan on periodically updating the image
backup of your system (remaking it) - then by the time you use it
(something goes wrong) - it will be so outdated as to be more trouble than
performing a full install of the operating system and all applications.
In other words - make sure you follow through. Some people just do this
extra step right before installing something major (like a service pack.)
That is not a bad plan.

Symantec/Norton Ghost
http://snipurl.com/13e00

Acronis True Image
http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/

BootIt NG
http://terabyteunlimited.com/bootitng.html
 
T

Tom [Pepper] Willett

: Again, what are these other components? Why don't you tell me what they
: are, and I can then decide if I "need" them. That way you don't have to
: worry your pretty little head about what I may or may not "need".
:

Why don't you go to MS and do some research on your own, smart ass.
 
P

Pdigmking

List of fixes that are included in Windows XP Service Pack 3
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946480/

The article clearly states that the list of fixes it shows were added
to SP3 only. If you want to know what was included in SP2 or SP1a -
they have links in the article. ("The following fix list includes
only the updates that were added in Windows XP SP3.")

So - out of those 1174 additional fixes (yes - there are 1174 listed
in SP3 alone) - how many do you have installed Post-SP2? I had about
100-120 on a good day. ;-)

I went to the website, and looked at the entire list. I choose 5
security patches randomly, and found that all five have already been
installed via the automatic update. Well, it wasn't exactly random, I
started with the last update on the list, or the most recent, and went
back from there. Obviously that list does is not comprised of never-
before released, only included in SP3 patches and updates. If I
understand you correclty, you're saying that there's a 1174 fixes in
there that I don't have. Again, what am I fixing? Nothing is currently
broken. Obviously I don't need those fixes or I'd be here complaining
about some problem I'm having and trying to find out which patch to
download. I couldn't find a security patch in SP3 that I don't already
have.
I still have no idea what you are trying to convey with 'update the
installer'; I would like to know, however.

Well, it just did it again. When I went to the windows update website,
(using I.E.) it checked for the most recent "updater", found that mine
was out of date, and installed a more recent one. Then I ran the updater
and found that SP3 is a recemended update. It appeared to download and
install something called "genuine advantage" something or another. I've
seen this two or three times over the last four years or so. It appears
to change something so that I can download and install new patches. If
I'm continually updating my XP this way, why wouldn't whatever I need to
continue recieving updates not just be included in the routine updates?
What is SP3 going to change that will make it impossible for me to
continue updates and why would it do that?

BTW - I have to point out that if you have actually experienced this
Take advantage of the fact that the
data (every bit - literally) on a computer can be backed up and
restored later - in case of a problem. If everything in life was like
that - things would be all good.


I'm not just talking about data here, my important data is backed up
regularly. I'm talking about the entire drive, (two of them) programs,
shorcuts, network cofigurations, external devices, drivers, everything.
no matter how I back up 200+ gigs of stuff, it takes hours to back it up,
and hours to restore it. I have better things to do with my time than
sit around trying to fix problems created by service packs that were
supposed to fix problems not create them. I haven't had to restore an OS
in five years, I'm not interested in doing it now.



Paul.
 
P

Pdigmking

: Again, what are these other components? Why don't you tell me what they
: are, and I can then decide if I "need" them. That way you don't have to
: worry your pretty little head about what I may or may not "need".
:

Why don't you go to MS and do some research on your own, smart ass.

Ouch.
 
S

Shenan Stanley

Pdigmking said:
I went to the website, and looked at the entire list. I choose 5
security patches randomly, and found that all five have already been
installed via the automatic update. Well, it wasn't exactly
random, I started with the last update on the list, or the most
recent, and went back from there. Obviously that list does is not
comprised of never- before released, only included in SP3 patches
and updates. If I understand you correclty, you're saying that
there's a 1174 fixes in there that I don't have. Again, what am I
fixing? Nothing is currently broken. Obviously I don't need those
fixes or I'd be here complaining about some problem I'm having and
trying to find out which patch to download. I couldn't find a
security patch in SP3 that I don't already have.

Incorrect - I am saying that there are 1174 patches there - of which I do
guarantee you do *not* have ALL of them installed. You may very well have
100-150 of them installed. I never said those patches were ONLY release in
SP3 - I said they were included in SP3 - not SP2 or SP1a.

Don't want it - don't download it - you realize my whole point is that no
one cares what you do with your computer system as long as you are happy
with it and you do not harm them directly or indirectly.
Well, it just did it again. When I went to the windows update
website, (using I.E.) it checked for the most recent "updater",
found that mine was out of date, and installed a more recent one.
Then I ran the updater and found that SP3 is a recemended update.
It appeared to download and install something called "genuine
advantage" something or another. I've seen this two or three times
over the last four years or so. It appears to change something so
that I can download and install new patches. If I'm continually
updating my XP this way, why wouldn't whatever I need to continue
recieving updates not just be included in the routine updates? What
is SP3 going to change that will make it impossible for me to
continue updates and why would it do that?

That is just another patch. Many of the patches you have gotten in the past
year have only been offered to you because you have SP2 - if you did not -
you would have never have been offered certain patches. It does not matter
if you got the latest WIndows Update Agent or not - that's just a single
component.

Heck - even SP3 requires you have at least SP1a installed on a working
system - in other words - if you never installed SP1a or SP2, you cannot
install SP3. Microsoft has checks it does before allowing some
patches/service packs to be installed.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/322389 --> "You must have either Windows XP
Service Pack 1a or Windows XP Service Pack 2 installed in order to install
Windows XP Service Pack 3."

SP2 required you have certain patches installed before you could install it:
http://www.petri.co.il/windows_xp_sp2_patches.htm

It's the way things work - they will stop support for Windows XP with SP2 in
2010.
http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifeselect
Specifically:
http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifesupsps

Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 released on 17-Sep-2004 will have its
support retired on 13-Jul-2010. After that date - there will be patches you
will not be offered unless you have SP3 installed.
Take advantage of the fact that the


I'm not just talking about data here, my important data is backed up
regularly. I'm talking about the entire drive, (two of them)
programs, shorcuts, network cofigurations, external devices,
drivers, everything. no matter how I back up 200+ gigs of stuff, it
takes hours to back it up, and hours to restore it. I have better
things to do with my time than sit around trying to fix problems
created by service packs that were supposed to fix problems not
create them. I haven't had to restore an OS in five years, I'm not
interested in doing it now.

Proves you did not read - I gave you three applications which - as I stated
very clearly - would backup a system in totality. You could apply that
image to a brand new hard drive in the same system and boot up like nothing
happened since the day you created the exact image - settings and all.

As for the 200+GB of data - I have a few terabytes - however - I backup and
store my data seperately from my system drive and applications - so I can
backup and restore 10-20GB of stuff and have everything up and working in
25-45 minutes. Sometimes the backup can take an hour or so - but it is done
while I sleep.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top