SATA saga

[Bobby]

I now know why Windows would not recognise my SATA drive during
installation.

My combination of motherboard (Asus K8V SE) and Windows (XP Pro SP2) *does*
need a third party driver to see my SATA drive during Windows setup. My
motherboard has two SATA controllers (both RAID) - a Promise controller and
a VIA controller. But the motherboard CD only supplies the Promise driver -
and my SATA drive was connected to the VIA controller. This sounds simple -
but took me hours to understand. Many thanks to the person who told me to go
to the VIA website and download the driver for my specific controller. When
I matched the driver to the specific controller, Windows setup loaded the
driver OK.

Problem solved. So I thought. Windows saw my SATA drive and attempted to
install XP (Pro SP2) but always failed - I got a BSD every time(usually -
but not always - late in the installation process). I've tried both
controllers and both drivers (Promise and VIA) and every time Windows sees
the HD but fails to fully install (BSD every time).

In desperation, I then tried to get my old (PATA) drive working. But I'm
getting BSDs with this drive too (in spite of disabling both the Promise and
SATABOOT controllers from within the BIOS).

So it sounds like my AMI BIOS upgrade has went wrong. I originally upgraded
my BIOS to try to make it recognise my SATA drive - and the upgrade appeared
to work OK (I used the Asus EZ Flash program that upgrades the BIOS from
within Windows - everything seemed to work - including the verification of
the upgrade). The upgraded BIOS still needs a special driver to see the SATA
drive so the upgrade was pointless. But I think that it is causing my
current problems.

Does this sound likely? Could a bad flash upgrade appear to work but cause
BSDs?

What is the best way to restore my old BIOS? I did save a copy on my SATA
hard drive which I usually can't access (due to constant BSDs). Can I
download the old BIOS and then restore it (using a DOS utility I presume)?

Thanks in anticipation.

Bobby

 

[NoneOfBusiness]

I now know why Windows would not recognise my SATA drive during
installation.

My combination of motherboard (Asus K8V SE) and Windows (XP Pro SP2) *does*
need a third party driver to see my SATA drive during Windows setup. My
motherboard has two SATA controllers (both RAID) - a Promise controller and
a VIA controller. But the motherboard CD only supplies the Promise driver -
and my SATA drive was connected to the VIA controller. This sounds simple -
but took me hours to understand. Many thanks to the person who told me to go
to the VIA website and download the driver for my specific controller. When
I matched the driver to the specific controller, Windows setup loaded the
driver OK.

Problem solved. So I thought. Windows saw my SATA drive and attempted to
install XP (Pro SP2) but always failed - I got a BSD every time(usually -
but not always - late in the installation process). I've tried both
controllers and both drivers (Promise and VIA) and every time Windows sees
the HD but fails to fully install (BSD every time).

In desperation, I then tried to get my old (PATA) drive working. But I'm
getting BSDs with this drive too (in spite of disabling both the Promise and
SATABOOT controllers from within the BIOS).

So it sounds like my AMI BIOS upgrade has went wrong. I originally upgraded
my BIOS to try to make it recognise my SATA drive - and the upgrade appeared
to work OK (I used the Asus EZ Flash program that upgrades the BIOS from
within Windows - everything seemed to work - including the verification of
the upgrade). The upgraded BIOS still needs a special driver to see the SATA
drive so the upgrade was pointless. But I think that it is causing my
current problems.

Does this sound likely? Could a bad flash upgrade appear to work but cause
BSDs?

What is the best way to restore my old BIOS? I did save a copy on my SATA
hard drive which I usually can't access (due to constant BSDs). Can I
download the old BIOS and then restore it (using a DOS utility I presume)?

Thanks in anticipation.

Bobby

You are welcome. I ran into a similar issue with the first K8V boards
and i had to go to VIA to get the driver so i knew what you were going
through.

As for reflashing your old BIOS, you should be able to restore it BUT
i would suggest you look at ASUS's site for info beforehand. If you
didn't do this after the flash, reset the CMOS settings via the jumper
on the motherboard. Take it back to a default config and reset
everything before you attempt a reflash. This usually will help
(unless you flashed with a beta bios).

If you still continue to have BSOD's on load, make sure all of your
connections on the motherboard are tight (ide,sata, power cables,
memory seating, etc). You may also wish to run the memtest86 to test
whether your memory is ok. usually when i have seen BSOD's loading
windows, there was a faulty stick of memory.

Since you have also added a SATA drive, your Power supply may not be
powerful enough to handle the added load. Please post your system
specs, including voltages that are on the PSU label and let us take a
look.

 

[Sleepless in Seattle]

N.B. XP uses the SATA driver NOT the BIOS.

 

[Max]

Buy an Intel motherboard and CPU. Seriously, I've had so many problems with
the VIA chipset, it cost me so many hours I would have gladly paid the
$100's to get the problems solved. I'd look up VIA in the newsgroups and
find that the VIA chip set for that board was defected and had to use lots
of "work arounds" and BIOS updates, etc.

I'm on my 3rd pure Intel system and I just don't run into those kinds of
device problems anymore. Thank you Intel!

-Max

 

[Tim]

Thats got nothing to do with the issue.
If Bobby had an Intel board with SATA he would still need to load drivers
for XP since XP doesn't know about peripheral devices created after it was
released.

Now, tell me, if he did get an Intel board, which model, who actually makes
them (if it was prior to mid last year it would still be Asus by all
liklihood) and what make / model of SATA controller would it have? Some
Intel boards come with Adaptec controllers, others with Intel ICH5 and ICH6
based controllers.

Nothing to do with it!

 

[Carl G]

I have a DFI board useing Intell chipsets and have no problems with or
without Raid.
No extra drivers just to use SATA hard drives, Need driver to setup raid.

 

[xfile]

Hi,

For those who may be interested:

(1) Serial ATA in the Microsoft Operating System Environment:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/serialATA_FAQ.mspx

This article provides some introductions about SATA and the two modes used
in Windows environment. Windows can use emulated Parallel ATA mode (with
existing drivers) for SATA drive without any problems except without
"advanced" features for which then will require native SATA mode and would
require drivers from vendors.

(2) Technical reference from Seagate about driver: Where can I get Windows
drivers for my Seagate hard drive?

http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/faq/win_drivers.html

In general, driver is not needed for the hard disk and are needed for
certain controllers provided by vendors listed at the bottom of page and
Intel is not one of them.

PS: I did not go to other HD sites and I "assume" they should be similar as
they should follow the standards defined by Serial ATA organization. But I
could be wrong, of course.

(2) For Intel chipset requires drivers, please refer to this page: Which
ATA/SATA Drivers Work with My Chipset?
http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/sb/CS-015001.htm

Additional information about IAA can be found here, and based on Intel,
"This software package is not a requirement for your operating system to
work properly": http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/iaa/

Additional information about IAA RAID edition can be found here:
http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/iaa_raid/

Additional information about newest Intel Matrix Storage Technology for
selected chipset can be found here:
http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/imst/

For the later two, they are used for RAID and/or advanced SATA functions,
such as NCQ or hot-plug. These information are also consistent with those
provided by MS.

Additional information about SATA can be found here:
http://www.serialata.org/index.asp

For my own experience, Intel's chipset will take advantages of Windows
emulated P-ATA mode for setting up SATA HD and thus no driver is needed.
But chipset inf is highly recommended.

Hope this helps.

 

[NotMe]

I had problems with the BSOD late in the install process repeatedly on one
machine.
It turned out the Genuine Windows XP Pro CD was defective.
Wasted probably 100 hours on troubleshooting hardware and setup due to a bad
CD....

 

[Woody]

Tim,

In most cases with Intel boards, you do not need to install additional
drivers for non-raid SATA. The SATA drive is installed using the native XP
UDMA drivers. Installation of the latest chipset drivers (after XP is
installed and functioning) is recommended for optimal performance.

Woody

 

[Treeman]

Many thanks to the person who told me to go

Now as you know I may not have done you any favor. On the main page of
ViaArena.com, they talk about a licensing problem between Via &
Microsoft.
So Via is writing drivers that many folks complain about.
As far as buying Intel, yes hindsight is always 20/20.
Your bios update is probably o.k., it's the drivers from Via & the MS
problem that carries most of the blame.
Keep checking and posting at the Via forums. I think you will get the
best advice from fellow sufferers, not from MS sock puppets.
Treeman

 

[Bobby]

I've tried two separate XP CDs and both cause BSDs. So it isn't my Windows
disk.

 

[Bobby]

Cheers Treeman. But I also get BSDs when I use the Promise controller and
the Promise driver.

Many thanks to the person who told me to go
to the VIA website and download the driver for my specific

Now as you know I may not have done you any favor. On the main page of
ViaArena.com, they talk about a licensing problem between Via &
Microsoft.
So Via is writing drivers that many folks complain about.
As far as buying Intel, yes hindsight is always 20/20.
Your bios update is probably o.k., it's the drivers from Via & the MS
problem that carries most of the blame.
Keep checking and posting at the Via forums. I think you will get the
best advice from fellow sufferers, not from MS sock puppets.
Treeman

 

[Bobby]

Thanks for taking the time to help.

You are welcome. I ran into a similar issue with the first K8V boards
and i had to go to VIA to get the driver so i knew what you were going
through.

I now have two (apparently) working sets of drivers - one for the Promise
controller and one for the VIA controller.

As for reflashing your old BIOS, you should be able to restore it BUT
i would suggest you look at ASUS's site for info beforehand.

I did manage to restore it using the Asus EZ Flash utility that is
built-into the BIOS ROM. It restores the original BIOS from the CD-ROM which
came with the mobo.

If you
didn't do this after the flash, reset the CMOS settings via the jumper
on the motherboard. Take it back to a default config and reset
everything before you attempt a reflash. This usually will help
(unless you flashed with a beta bios).

I reset the CMOS this evening (before restoring my old BIOS - see above).

If you still continue to have BSOD's on load

I am. In fact, it resets (not BSD) even when I let it sit at the log-in
screen. Alothugh I still get the occasional BSD.

make sure all of your
connections on the motherboard are tight (ide,sata, power cables,
memory seating, etc).
Done.

You may also wish to run the memtest86 to test
whether your memory is ok. usually when i have seen BSOD's loading
windows, there was a faulty stick of memory.

I was beginning to think this too. I have two memory sticks (both 3200 DDR -
one is 512Mb and one is 256Mb) so I removed each one. No difference. The
machine still resets.

Since you have also added a SATA drive, your Power supply may not be
powerful enough to handle the added load. Please post your system
specs, including voltages that are on the PSU label and let us take a
look.

I have a 550W no-name PSU - that was working perfectly prior to me upgrading
the BIOS.

So I am a complete loss. I've checked everything. Now that I have restored
my original BIOS and using my original (PATA) HD, I am back to my original
configuration - but the damn thing still refuses to work.

My PC was fine with the original BIOS and my original PATA hard disk. Since
messing around with the BIOS and installing the SATA drive, it resets
constantly.

The only thing I can think of is the graphics adaptor (an ATI 9600 Pro). Is
it worth replacing this? I feel like I'm grasping at straws.

I am on the verge of buying a new mobo. And it *will not* be an ASUS board.

Bobby

 

[NoneOfBusiness]

Buy an Intel motherboard and CPU. Seriously, I've had so many problems with
the VIA chipset, it cost me so many hours I would have gladly paid the
$100's to get the problems solved. I'd look up VIA in the newsgroups and
find that the VIA chip set for that board was defected and had to use lots
of "work arounds" and BIOS updates, etc.

I'm on my 3rd pure Intel system and I just don't run into those kinds of
device problems anymore. Thank you Intel!

-Max

I have had the exact opposite. My Via and nforce chipsets have worked
well, but the intels were another story. Go figure.

 

[NoneOfBusiness]

Thanks for taking the time to help.


I now have two (apparently) working sets of drivers - one for the Promise
controller and one for the VIA controller.


I did manage to restore it using the Asus EZ Flash utility that is
built-into the BIOS ROM. It restores the original BIOS from the CD-ROM which
came with the mobo.


I reset the CMOS this evening (before restoring my old BIOS - see above).


I am. In fact, it resets (not BSD) even when I let it sit at the log-in
screen. Alothugh I still get the occasional BSD.


I was beginning to think this too. I have two memory sticks (both 3200 DDR -
one is 512Mb and one is 256Mb) so I removed each one. No difference. The
machine still resets.


I have a 550W no-name PSU - that was working perfectly prior to me upgrading
the BIOS.

So I am a complete loss. I've checked everything. Now that I have restored
my original BIOS and using my original (PATA) HD, I am back to my original
configuration - but the damn thing still refuses to work.

My PC was fine with the original BIOS and my original PATA hard disk. Since
messing around with the BIOS and installing the SATA drive, it resets
constantly.

The only thing I can think of is the graphics adaptor (an ATI 9600 Pro). Is
it worth replacing this? I feel like I'm grasping at straws.

I am on the verge of buying a new mobo. And it *will not* be an ASUS board.

Bobby

Don't give up on ASUS yet. Their boards are usually very good.

In your BIOS, do the reset to default settings.
1) Just because a PSU worked before doesn't mean it still works
properly now. Please post your system specs, video, cpu, mobo, memory,
etc and your PSU voltages for each rail, primarily your +12v. There
maybe some combo here that could explain your problem but we need more
info
2) Run memtest on each stick of memory for at least 5 hours each
3) Reseat your cpu and heatsink/fan. Could possibly be loose or
overheating
4) Check your power connections on all drives, including video. Make
sure they are fully seated in place. Did you plug all mobo power
connectors in? ATX plus 4pin +12v?
5) Unplug all add on cards and hardware except what you need to load
windows and try again. If you have another video card, try it instead
of the 9600. If you can turn of fast writes in the BIOS, give it a try
for the video card.

In saying all of this, it still sounds like memory and/or power
related. Try another PSU if you can get your hands on one.



...My Specs..
MSI K8T Master2-far
2 Opteron 242 CPU's
4x512 PC2700 REG ECC Infineon DDR memory
2x80gig WD SATA drives (on a VIA sata controller)
1x300gig Maxtor IDE Drive
XFX Geforce 6600GT AGP video card
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum
Ultra 500watt Modular PSU
19' SAMSUNG 191t plus LCD
17' SAMSUNG 710N-2 LCD
WinXP Pro SP2, WinXP x86-64 RC2, Fedora Core 3 64bit

 

[Tim]

I ditto this advice.

Run memtest86 for a prolonged period - if there is 1 error you cannot expect
any OS to run correctly.

Check the CPU temp in the BIOS. AMD64 right? That should run really cool
particularly if it is one of the newer Winchester core CPU's (90 nm). If the
temp is high in the bios ( > 70c ) then there is an issue. 70c is an
arbitrary number... it is Hot. Even if it were say 60c I would still
investigate as such chips should run < 55c. This all assumes an ambient temp
of around 21c.

 

[Carl G]

I would reflash that Bios fro a floppy disk.
XP or 98 startup disk,I do mine with a floppy made with XP .

 

[Bobby]

Don't give up on ASUS yet. Their boards are usually very good.

ASUS boards are fine. Just don't add a SATA drive or upgrade the BIOS
without a PhD in Computer Science.

In your BIOS, do the reset to default settings.

Done this a dozen times.

1) Just because a PSU worked before doesn't mean it still works
properly now. Please post your system specs, video, cpu, mobo, memory,
etc and your PSU voltages for each rail, primarily your +12v. There
maybe some combo here that could explain your problem but we need more
info
2) Run memtest on each stick of memory for at least 5 hours each
3) Reseat your cpu and heatsink/fan. Could possibly be loose or
overheating
4) Check your power connections on all drives, including video. Make
sure they are fully seated in place. Did you plug all mobo power
connectors in? ATX plus 4pin +12v?
5) Unplug all add on cards and hardware except what you need to load
windows and try again. If you have another video card, try it instead
of the 9600. If you can turn of fast writes in the BIOS, give it a try
for the video card.

Thanks - but this all sounds like grasping at straws and would take forever.
My PC worked perfectly until I tried to install the SATA drive and flashed
the BIOS. So I don't think that it's any of these peripherals. A new mobo is
£50 - which is a lot less than another evening lost from my life.

In saying all of this, it still sounds like memory and/or power
related. Try another PSU if you can get your hands on one.

It certainly feels like a memory problem. But I've tried each memory stick
independently so they must both be bad. Very unlikely. The PSU can't be the
problem since my PC resets when I disconnect the SATA drive and use the
original HD.

 

[Bobby]

CPU is running at 34C.

I ditto this advice.

Run memtest86 for a prolonged period - if there is 1 error you cannot
expect any OS to run correctly.

Check the CPU temp in the BIOS. AMD64 right? That should run really cool
particularly if it is one of the newer Winchester core CPU's (90 nm). If
the temp is high in the bios ( > 70c ) then there is an issue. 70c is an
arbitrary number... it is Hot. Even if it were say 60c I would still
investigate as such chips should run < 55c. This all assumes an ambient
temp of around 21c.

 

[Bobby]

Tonight's instalment...

Replaced graphics card (ATI 9600 Pro) with another card (nVidia FX5200) and
removed my TV card from the system. Result? No change. System continues to
reset (although I got 5 full minutes out of it tonight).

Life is too short. It's a new motherboard for me tomorrow.

I presume that one of the many system resets that I forced when I was trying
to get the SATA drive to work (before using the third party driver) has
damaged something on the mobo. I'll never know what. But four wasted
evenings is enough.

BTW Asus technical support (UK) is garbage. I received a couple of (short)
e-mails from some guy but his advice was crap (for example, he was unaware
that you can restore the original BIOS using the motherboard CD).

Bobby