Sandbox software

K

Ken Springer

Does anyone have any recommendations for sandbox software for XP, Vista,
and Win7?

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 10.0.2
Thunderbird 10.0.2
LibreOffice 3.4.5
 
K

Ken Springer

No idea. I don't use it.
I do know that is *highly* regarded and its use, registered or unregistered,
wasn't a part of Ken's request.

I actually hadn't considered cost and registration, but in as much as it
will only be occasionally used, and then probably rarely, I wouldn't be
bothered by the nagging. :)


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 10.0.2
Thunderbird 10.0.2
LibreOffice 3.4.5
 
V

VanguardLH

Ken said:
I actually hadn't considered cost and registration, but in as much as it
will only be occasionally used, and then probably rarely, I wouldn't be
bothered by the nagging. :)

Alternatively, then, you could use a virtual machine manager (VMM), like
VirtualPC, VirtualBox, or VMware Player. However, you'll need a spare
(unused) license of Windows to install it in the VM.

You can also get Returnil for free. This doesn't virtualize your
hardware so programs run at native speeds. All disk I/O is virtualized
(they use a driver to write to a secured area on the hard disk). When
you reboot, all changes to your host are obliterated. This lets you
enable Returnil, play with some software, and then reboot and be back to
the same state you were in before. Microsoft has their SteadyState to
do the same thing but it is more clumsy to use.
 
K

Ken Springer

Alternatively, then, you could use a virtual machine manager (VMM), like
VirtualPC, VirtualBox, or VMware Player. However, you'll need a spare
(unused) license of Windows to install it in the VM.

On my Mac, I have Parallels Desktop for Mac, but I've learned that
Windows and Windows software can't be depended on to operate 100%
correctly, or as intended. And, I want to test a couple of programs
running as close to the "real world" as possible without doing any
permanent damage to my Windows install, regardless of how unlikely that
would be. I was considering using System Restore for this, until I
remembered the sandbox idea.
You can also get Returnil for free. This doesn't virtualize your
hardware so programs run at native speeds. All disk I/O is virtualized
(they use a driver to write to a secured area on the hard disk). When
you reboot, all changes to your host are obliterated. This lets you
enable Returnil, play with some software, and then reboot and be back to
the same state you were in before. Microsoft has their SteadyState to
do the same thing but it is more clumsy to use.

I've downloaded all three, and Sandboxie does still nag you. :)
Couldn't find a place on MS using the magnificent Bing (<--- sarcasm) to
download the program.

Gawd, I hate the websites that insist on you joining or using their
installer. Q#@%^@%$@%$ My experience using Brothersoft has been
horrible, I'll never use their site again.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 10.0.2
Thunderbird 10.0.2
LibreOffice 3.4.5
 
V

VanguardLH

Ken said:
On my Mac, I have Parallels Desktop for Mac, but I've learned that
Windows and Windows software can't be depended on to operate 100%
correctly, or as intended. And, I want to test a couple of programs
running as close to the "real world" as possible without doing any
permanent damage to my Windows install, regardless of how unlikely that
would be. I was considering using System Restore for this, until I
remembered the sandbox idea.


I've downloaded all three, and Sandboxie does still nag you. :)
Couldn't find a place on MS using the magnificent Bing (<--- sarcasm) to
download the program.

Gawd, I hate the websites that insist on you joining or using their
installer. Q#@%^@%$@%$ My experience using Brothersoft has been
horrible, I'll never use their site again.

I try to avoid Brothersoft. I don't trust that download site. I only
go there is the *author* of a program is using Brothersoft to provide
bandwidth for their downloads. Otherwise, I get the software from the
vendor's own site or someplace well-known, like Softpedia.com or
Download.com (although I dislike the wrapper Cnet puts on many, not all,
downloads from download.com). None of the products mentioned must be
downloaded at Brothersoft. Sandboxie uses Brothersoft to handle the
bandwidth for downloads - but they also have download links from their
own server and Techspot plus you can get it at Softpedia and
Download.com. All but Returnil have their own site do downloads of
their software (Returnil uses MajorGeek.com). SteadyState, VirtualPC,
VMWare Player, and Virtualbox are downloaded from their vendor's own
server, not from Brothersoft. Returnil uses the MajorGeeks.com site to
offload the bandwidth for downloads.

I don't remember that VirtualPC, VirtualBox, or Returnil make you
register (to download or install) but VMWare does and I haven't
re-trialed Sandboxie because I'm not interested in nagware; however, I
wouldn't care if some vendor wants me to register. I never use my true
e-mail address to register. Either I use a disposable e-mail account
(e.g., Hotmail, Gmail, Yahoo) or I use an e-mail alias (e.g.,
Sneakemail). I don't need to worry that they'll abuse the e-mail
address because for a disposable account it gets disposed of after
registration and for the alias it self-destructs at 3 uses (unless I
specify a different usage count in the alias or in the config for my
alias account). Unless you protect your e-mail address, figure it will
get abused.

"Couldn't find a place on MS using the magnificent Bing". Don't know to
what was supposed to "the program" since you didn't say. On WHAT were
you searching? Are you talking about Microsoft's SteadyState?

http://www.bing.com/search?q=micros...H&pq=microsoft%20steadystate&sc=0-0&sp=-1&sk=
http://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft+steadystate

Returnil will give you your desire to test the software or changes on
the real host (Windows+hardware) than the other solutions that emulate
the hardware (e.g., VMs) or attempt to isolate an application either
with system hooks or privileges (e.g., Sandboxie, GeSWall). The only
thing virtualized with Returnil is the disk writes which still go to the
real hardware but are secured within a specific cache that disappears
when you reboot. While using Returnil, yep, any malware will do
whatever it wants, you can edit document files, you can save a history
of web sites that you visit (which will still be in the index.dat file
even if you configure IE to wipe its history on exit), capture streamed
videos into local files, add printers or install software (as a long as
a reboot isn't required). When you reboot, ALL those changes you,
programs, or malware made are obliterated since they never were written
to the real hard disk (and where, also, are the registry's .dat files).

I test unknown and untrusted software in a VM. Then, if I have one,
move it to a sandbox. Then test it while Returnil is active. Lastly it
goes on my real host if it hasn't exhibited unwanted behavior in the
prior test environments and assuming that I decided it was something I
wanted during those trials.
 
K

Ken Springer

"Couldn't find a place on MS using the magnificent Bing". Don't know to
what was supposed to "the program" since you didn't say. On WHAT were
you searching? Are you talking about Microsoft's SteadyState?

I definitely could have been clearer! LOL

I was searching MS's site to download SteadyState, Bing found nothing
but documentation. Not even on the downloads page.

But I got it elsewhere, don't remember where now.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 10.0.2
Thunderbird 10.0.2
LibreOffice 3.4.5
 
K

Ken Springer

Avast Free has a sandbox feature. Is that of any interest?
I have used it a time or two. Not sure what all it does except
seemingly isolate a new application start& run (until the function has
been changed).

Comments please.

I read that, but my Windows use tends to be minimal, so I'm no long
purchasing any AV software, simply running with Microsoft Security
Essentials....

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 10.0.2
Thunderbird 10.0.2
LibreOffice 3.4.5
 
E

Etaoin Shrdlu

I read that, but my Windows use tends to be minimal, so I'm no long
purchasing any AV software, simply running with Microsoft Security
Essentials....

Avast *free* he said. Comodo's free version also has a sandbox function.
 
K

Ken Springer

Avast *free* he said. Comodo's free version also has a sandbox function.

It's not the cost, it's justifying the cost. <grin> In as much as the
Windows computer *might* get 2 hrs. a week, a paid subscription isn't
justifiable to me.

I used to used to install Avast Free on the old computers I would
"rehab" and then donate to a local social agency to be given away until
I learned that Avast actually inserts code into Firefox, and they were
sometimes late in updating the code to keep up with Mozilla's new
updating policy. And, Avast Free requires reregistering annually unless
their policy has changed.

And, using MSE on those computers is probably a better idea as it would
be automatically updated with MS's system, as in many cases the new
owner could be limited in their knowledge.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 10.0.2
Thunderbird 10.0.2
LibreOffice 3.4.5
 
V

VanguardLH

Peter said:
VanguardLH ...


No. Not here anyway

Actually it was a tongue-in-cheek question. I knew about the monthly
nag but, in question form, I wanted the OP to know about it. Read:

http://www.sandboxie.com/index.php?RegisterSandboxie

where it says:

"Removes the nag screen that initially appears after you have used
Sandboxie for more than 30 days".

Each subsequent month will show another nag screen. Once per month
isn't very often and most users will suffer with it. However, the nag
along with the crippling (in not having auto-sandboxing of certain
programs no matter how they are started, like when called as a child
process by a parent program) is just a bit too much for me.

I don't know how they've been regarding expertise and responsiveness for
tech support since the "home" license doesn't necessarily get support
("does not entitle you to any guaranteed level of technical support").
So you buy the product but might not get any support for it. You might
get support. You might not and they're not obligated to give it to you.
 
P

Peter Foldes

Have not seen that screen yet. Been using Sandboxie now for almost 2 yrs.

--
Peter
Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
http://www.microsoft.com/protect
 
V

VanguardLH

Peter said:
Have not seen that screen yet. Been using Sandboxie now for almost 2 yrs.

Paid or free version? When you go into its Help -> About dialog, does
it say "Unregistered copy"? I'm assuming you didn't acquire a cracked
version or obtain a non-legit license key. This subthread targeted the
freeware version ("unless you pay for the registration"). Perhaps you
forgot that you are using the payware version.

When you first install Sandboxie, you don't get a choice to get the
freeware or payware version. You get the payware version that will
cripple itself after 30 days. Each 30 days you get a nag as a reminder
to buy the payware version. Maybe you haven't seen it in your peculiar
[perhaps freeware] installation but MANY freeware-using users have seen
it, especially since the product is coded to show it. Just search on
"nag" in the Sandboxie forums.
 
K

Ken Springer

Peter said:
Have not seen that screen yet. Been using Sandboxie now for almost 2 yrs.

Paid or free version? When you go into its Help -> About dialog, does
it say "Unregistered copy"? I'm assuming you didn't acquire a cracked
version or obtain a non-legit license key. This subthread targeted the
freeware version ("unless you pay for the registration"). Perhaps you
forgot that you are using the payware version.

When you first install Sandboxie, you don't get a choice to get the
freeware or payware version. You get the payware version that will
cripple itself after 30 days. Each 30 days you get a nag as a reminder
to buy the payware version. Maybe you haven't seen it in your peculiar
[perhaps freeware] installation but MANY freeware-using users have seen
it, especially since the product is coded to show it. Just search on
"nag" in the Sandboxie forums.

The nag message is mentioned on the purchasing page:
http://www.sandboxie.com/index.php?RegisterSandboxie

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 10.0.2
Thunderbird 10.0.2
LibreOffice 3.4.5
 
I

Iceman

I second sandboxie. I don't know what is better besides Embedded Windows
which is a whole system sandbox. But IMHO does do the job very well.

Looks like snake oil to me, if I may say so. In the fight against malware
and spyware, nothing works better than to simply be careful, don't open
unsolicited e-mail, scan your computer regularly with AV program and an
antimalware program (many are recommended in this group), and lastly don't
install any new software that you know little about and perhaps don't
really need. :)
 
B

BillW50

In
Iceman said:
Looks like snake oil to me, if I may say so. In the fight against
malware and spyware, nothing works better than to simply be careful,
don't open unsolicited e-mail, scan your computer regularly with AV
program and an antimalware program (many are recommended in this
group), and lastly don't install any new software that you know
little about and perhaps don't really need. :)

All true except for the part of the lack of security updates which
Microsoft has taken up to 7 years to plug. Plus most AV takes a day or
so to be able to grab malware. Even though you can't trust Microsoft to
protect you. And you can't trust AV to protect you against zero day
malware. But Icemen, virtually all malware is basically useless against
sandboxes. The reason being is that malware is stuck in a box and can't
get out.

Even if you do everything right Icemen, you are still at risk unless you
are totally isolated from everything. I've been running Windows since
'93 and I haven't been infected yet (and I have over a dozen computers
here). Now you don't have to believe a word I say, as I frankly don't
care. As all I care about is that I know what I am doing. ;-)

Now if you want to call a sandbox as snake oil... go for it! But I can
tell you that you don't have a clue how all of this stuff works as if
you did, you would know better.
 
B

BillW50

In
VanguardLH said:
Alternatively, then, you could use a virtual machine manager (VMM),
like VirtualPC, VirtualBox, or VMware Player. However, you'll need a
spare (unused) license of Windows to install it in the VM.

You can also get Returnil for free. This doesn't virtualize your
hardware so programs run at native speeds. All disk I/O is
virtualized (they use a driver to write to a secured area on the hard
disk). When you reboot, all changes to your host are obliterated.
This lets you enable Returnil, play with some software, and then
reboot and be back to the same state you were in before. Microsoft
has their SteadyState to do the same thing but it is more clumsy to
use.

Microsoft also has the EWF that comes with Embedded Windows. It can be
setup to keep all changes off of your system drive. Thus you can keep
your system drive (or another drive if you would like) in a frozen
state. And all changes are only temporary and not written on the frozen
drive. But rather stored either in RAM or on another drive. Storing in
RAM is pretty slick. As you don't have to do a proper shutdown anymore.
As you could simply just pull the plug and all is well anyway.
 

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