Floppy disk formats

[Ken Springer]

Does anyone know where I can find the differences between a floppy
formatted under XP and an IBM pre-formatted floppy?

Apparently, I need an IBM pre-formatted floppy in order to apply a BIOS
update on an old Gateway computer. This requirement is clearly stated
on the web page.

If the only difference is the data on the floppy, I can use a sector
editor and manually create an IBM diskette from a Windows diskette.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 6.0.2
Thunderbird 6.0.2
LibreOffice 3.3.3

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Does anyone know where I can find the differences between a floppy
formatted under XP and an IBM pre-formatted floppy?

Apparently, I need an IBM pre-formatted floppy in order to apply a BIOS
update on an old Gateway computer. This requirement is clearly stated
on the web page.

If the only difference is the data on the floppy, I can use a sector
editor and manually create an IBM diskette from a Windows diskette.

There is no difference in formats. The only possible difference is the
Media Descriptor Byte. See http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=140060

 

[Ken Springer]

There is no difference in formats. The only possible difference is the
Media Descriptor Byte. See http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=140060

This was actually my gut feeling, but it may be important. I know that
trying to update the BIOS to date has failed, using an XP formatted disk.

Haven't been to IBM's website yet, but do you have any idea where I
might be able to find what Media Descriptor Byte value was written on
the IBM pre-formatted diskettes?




--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 6.0.2
Thunderbird 6.0.2
LibreOffice 3.3.3

 

[Ken Springer]

There is no difference in formats. The only possible difference is the
Media Descriptor Byte. See http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=140060

I forgot to say thanks for that link.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 6.0.2
Thunderbird 6.0.2
LibreOffice 3.3.3

 

[Ken]

Does anyone know where I can find the differences between a floppy
formatted under XP and an IBM pre-formatted floppy?

Apparently, I need an IBM pre-formatted floppy in order to apply a BIOS
update on an old Gateway computer. This requirement is clearly stated on
the web page.

If the only difference is the data on the floppy, I can use a sector
editor and manually create an IBM diskette from a Windows diskette.

I don't understand why it matters, but couldn't you boot from a DOS
disk and format the blank with Format A:? Since the OS is different
from Windows, it might work.

 

[Nil]

Does anyone know where I can find the differences between a floppy
formatted under XP and an IBM pre-formatted floppy?

Apparently, I need an IBM pre-formatted floppy in order to apply a
BIOS update on an old Gateway computer. This requirement is
clearly stated on the web page.

I don't think there is any signifcant difference. All that should
matter is that the file system format is appropriate, and maybe that it
be bootable.

If you're having trouble making a bootable floppy from within Windows,
you can try one of the bootable floppy images found here:

http://www.bootdisk.com/

 

[James D Andrews]

Ken Springer embroidered on the monitor :

Does anyone know where I can find the differences between a floppy formatted
under XP and an IBM pre-formatted floppy?

Apparently, I need an IBM pre-formatted floppy in order to apply a BIOS
update on an old Gateway computer. This requirement is clearly stated on the
web page.

If the only difference is the data on the floppy, I can use a sector editor
and manually create an IBM diskette from a Windows diskette.

I know I'm only a novice, but...

....isn't an IBM pre-formatted disk just one straight out of the box?
As in without running the Format a: or the equivalent from within
Windows Explorer?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...omputers&field-keywords=floppy+disk&x=24&y=14

Trying to find floppy disks these days isn't easy. 'Tis a shame. I
like having the emergency backup way to boot if the HDD & CD are
off-line for whatever reasons.

--
-There are some who call me...
Jim


"Do, or do not. There is no 'try'."
- Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back')

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

This was actually my gut feeling, but it may be important. I know that
trying to update the BIOS to date has failed, using an XP formatted disk.

Haven't been to IBM's website yet, but do you have any idea where I
might be able to find what Media Descriptor Byte value was written on
the IBM pre-formatted diskettes?

The only way I know is trying to read it.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I forgot to say thanks for that link.

You're welcome. Glad to help.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I don't understand why it matters, but couldn't you boot from a DOS
disk and format the blank with Format A:? Since the OS is different
from Windows, it might work.

I should have said that. Yes, you can do that

 

[Don Phillipson]

...isn't an IBM pre-formatted disk just one straight out of the box? As
in without running the Format a: or the equivalent from within Windows
Explorer?

Marketing matters. When floppies (5" or 3") were first on the
market (say 1980) they were sold unformatted because various OSs
handled them in various ways -- and the same for the first consumer
hard drives a decade later. Towards year 2000, however, and as
it became cheaper to buy larger drives, marketers believed they
should sell hard drives preformatted, because some users were
not experienced in formatting: and in turn, perhaps, floppies too
(not least because a small percentage of floppies will not format,
and it was prudent to detect and destroy these at the factory
rather than in the hands of offended customers.)

 

[Ken Springer]

I should have said that. Yes, you can do that

Well, actually, I didn't ask the question about booting from a DOS disk,
but when we've got 3 "Kens" posting here........ LOL

I was just over in MS's yucky Social.Answers forum answering a similar
question. I've got about a half dozen options in that area, but none of
those options using MS software will definitively answer the question of
what, if any, difference is there between an MS formatted disk and an
IBM formatted disk.

If I'd get off my lazy butt, I could even format a floppy using Geoworks
and OS/2 Warp 4! LOL


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 6.0.2
Thunderbird 6.0.2
LibreOffice 3.3.3

 

[Ken Springer]

I don't think there is any signifcant difference. All that should
matter is that the file system format is appropriate, and maybe that it
be bootable.

Unless the IBM format writes info to some unused bytes somewhere on the
floppy, and the install routine checks to see if that data is on the floppy.

Similar things were done to 5.25 floppies in the 8-bit days as early
methods of copy protection.

If you're having trouble making a bootable floppy from within Windows,
you can try one of the bootable floppy images found here:

I've no problem making a bootable floppy as I just posted elsewhere in
this thread.

http://www.bootdisk.com/

But thanks for this link, I had forgotten about them. It's bookmarked
now! ::grin::


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 6.0.2
Thunderbird 6.0.2
LibreOffice 3.3.3

 

[Ken Springer]

Ken Springer embroidered on the monitor :

I know I'm only a novice, but...

...isn't an IBM pre-formatted disk just one straight out of the box?
As in without running the Format a: or the equivalent from within
Windows Explorer?

That is my core question, are they the same? I need to find out
*exactly* what's written to a floppy when formatted to IBM specs.

<snip>


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 6.0.2
Thunderbird 6.0.2
LibreOffice 3.3.3

 

[Ken Springer]

Marketing matters. When floppies (5" or 3") were first on the
market (say 1980) they were sold unformatted because various OSs
handled them in various ways -- and the same for the first consumer
hard drives a decade later.

For the 5.25" floppies, you also had hard formatted and soft formatted
disks. You could use the hard formatted disks in a soft formatting
drive, but not the reverse.

Towards year 2000, however, and as
it became cheaper to buy larger drives, marketers believed they
should sell hard drives preformatted, because some users were
not experienced in formatting: and in turn, perhaps, floppies too
(not least because a small percentage of floppies will not format,
and it was prudent to detect and destroy these at the factory
rather than in the hands of offended customers.)

Instead of saying "not experienced in formatting", how about we say it
like it is, users are uneducated about their computers.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 6.0.2
Thunderbird 6.0.2
LibreOffice 3.3.3

 

[Nil]

Unless the IBM format writes info to some unused bytes somewhere
on the floppy, and the install routine checks to see if that data
is on the floppy.

I suppose, but unless your Dell computer is prehistoric, I can't
imagine that they would really require a floppy formatted on an IBM
branded computer or with IBM's DOS OS. Seems to me that by the time
Dell was much of a player, Microsoft's DOS was the dominant operating
system. At that point it would have been a real hassle to get floppies
from IBM or format one using IBMs DOS OS. I can't imagine Dell making
it that difficult to update their BIOS. I used to work for a company in
the late '90s/early '00s that bought tons of Dell computers and there
was no such restriction at that time.

"IBM" had became a generic term to distinguish PCs from Apple and other
manufacturer's products. It didn't really have much to do with IBM as a
company, it was like "Kleenex".

 

[Nil]

...isn't an IBM pre-formatted disk just one straight out of the
box? As in without running the Format a: or the equivalent from
within Windows Explorer?

You used to be able to buy either unformatted floppy disks or
preformatted ones. You paid a premium for the pre-formatted ones.
Formatting floppies was a time-consuming process, and it was worth the
cost to some people to save that time by buying preformatted ones.

So, no, the term "IBM" didn't have anything to do with formatted vs.
unformatted. It had to do with floppies that were formatted with file
systems (usually MS-DOS or close relatives like IBM-DOS or PC-DOS or
clones) that could be read by IBM-type PCs, rather than other platforms
and operating systems.

 

[philo]

When you say the bios update failed
was that because the disk did not boot?

If so you need to create a win9x system disk...

merely formatting the disk will not make it bootable

 

[Ken Springer]

When you say the bios update failed
was that because the disk did not boot?

We made sure to create a bootable disk.

If so you need to create a win9x system disk...

merely formatting the disk will not make it bootable

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 6.0.2
Thunderbird 6.0.2
LibreOffice 3.3.3

 

[philo]

We made sure to create a bootable disk.

OK

weird that it would be that way
but you could always download a win9x boot floppy image
then delete everything on it but the 3 necessary boot files