Samsung laser vs Epson inkjet

[Steve]

I was at Best Buy to purchase the Samsung ML1710 laser for $100 after
rebates. There was an Epson guy there, tried to talk me into the
Stylus C82, says it's faster for text, and cheaper per page. The B&W
cartridge is rated at 1,240 pages, costs about $30. Samsung's toner
cartridge is rated at 3,000 pages, costs about $80. The Epson is
rated at 22ppm for text, while the Samsung is 17ppm. The C82 costs
$79 after rebates.

If these specs actually pan out, is there any reason to go with the
laser? Am I missing something? Thanks!

 

[Wolf Kirchmeir]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 00:28:02 GMT, Steve wrote:

=>I was at Best Buy to purchase the Samsung ML1710 laser for $100 after
=>rebates. There was an Epson guy there, tried to talk me into the
=>Stylus C82, says it's faster for text, and cheaper per page. The B&W
=>cartridge is rated at 1,240 pages, costs about $30. Samsung's toner
=>cartridge is rated at 3,000 pages, costs about $80. The Epson is
=>rated at 22ppm for text, while the Samsung is 17ppm. The C82 costs
=>$79 after rebates.
=>
=>If these specs actually pan out, is there any reason to go with the
=>laser? Am I missing something? Thanks!
=>

Seems to be little to choose between the laser and the ink-jet costwise. The
ink-jet will also do colour, of course, at considerbly higher costs/page.
However, if you want water-proof ink, choose the laser -- the Epson ink is
"water resistant", whatever that means. I'm sure someone will have personal
experience to relate.

But at roughly 2-1/2 cents/page, the cost is fairly high IMO. If you want
lower cost printing choose a more expensive laser with a larger capacity
cartridge. I priced some HP and Canon high capacity cartridges at about 1
cent/page. If you print home office quantities or more, the higher capital
cost of a printer that takes these high capacity cartridges will be recovered
quickly. The higher priced machines are also tougher.

IOW, do your arithmetic based on the expected life and duty cycle of the
printer, not just on capital cost and toner/ink cost. Get advice from an
office supply store - they know the market better than the computer stores.

HTH

 

[Safetymom123]

The C82 has individual cartridges costing $11-12 apiece. The ink is water
proof on plain paper. They usually have a display of a printout sitting in
a bottle of water.

 

[Steve]

I agree with Wolf, you need a laser printer. The ACTUAL print speed of the
C82 is 1-0.5ppm for "normal" resolution. Also, in the same resolution you
can expect half page printed out of a cartridge, and because of cleaning
cycles about 1/4 of 1240 pages.

Thanks to everyone who's posted responses! How do they get away with
specs of 22ppm? Not sure I understand the relation of cleaning cycles
to total page output - ?

 

[Safetymom123]

If you notice on all printers the quoted speed is at draft mode. It is not
the mode everyone chooses to print at. The cleaning cycles don't affect the
total number of pages that much. If you leave the printer off until ready
to print you will not need to run a long cleaning cycle that uses more ink.
The C82 is a great printer.

I don't know where this person is getting the print speeds and cost of
cartridges because he is wrong.

 

[Steve]

But at roughly 2-1/2 cents/page, the cost is fairly high IMO. If you want
lower cost printing choose a more expensive laser with a larger capacity
cartridge.

Is there something inherent in the Samsung that makes their cartridges
more expensive? (about $80 for 3,000 pages, vs $50 or so for the
Brother 1450)

OTOH, I'm coming off an Epson ActionLaser 1500, which has an
astronomical cartridge price. Been using toner refill kits for years,
with no problems. I print somewhere around 300-500 pages per month.

 

[Wolf Kirchmeir]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:44:59 GMT, Safetymom123 wrote:

=>The C82 has individual cartridges costing $11-12 apiece. The ink is water
=>proof on plain paper. They usually have a display of a printout sitting in
=>a bottle of water.

Thanks, that's the kind of info I wanted.

 

[reboot]

Inkjet speeds are pure fiction. There's no way the C82 will turn out 22ppm
even if it was going downhill with a tailwind. Expect no more than 4ppm
(even on plain text) at anything above draft quality. At $30 a cartridge
the C82 costs 2.4 cents/page to operate assuming the ink doesn't evaporate
or the head clogs (which it will if you don't use the printer regularly).
Inkjets are also happier with specialized paper.

In contrast, laser speed ratings tend to be much more accurate. The ML-
1710 will turn out about 14ppm on plain text at full quality. While the
laser costs work out to 2.7 cents a page, the toner won't disappear when
you're not using it. Finally, lasers will work just fine with normal
paper.

My advice: run, don't walk, away from the inkjet and look at more laser
printers. The ML-1710 is entry level these days and devices with costs per
page of less than two cents are readily available. For instance, the
Brother HL-1450 has a per page toner cost of one cent. The only reasons to
buy an inkjet are if you need color or if don't have enough funds to afford
the high initial cost of a decent laser printer.

I have a Samsung ML-1430 and for text I wouldn't trade it for a
roomful of inkjets. After the rebate it was only $129. For color
photos or color pages I use a Canon i950. Yes, you can have more than
one printer hooked up to your computer.

Try using a yellow highlighter on a page of text printed with a
inkjet.

Reboot

 

[Steve]

I have a Samsung ML-1430 and for text I wouldn't trade it for a
roomful of inkjets. After the rebate it was only $129.

How's the pricing on toner? Any idea what your cost per page looks
like? Thanks!

 

[Steve]

The Action Laser refill is almost a total rebuild of the
printer, and it is a nominal 6000 page cartridge which
can be refilled 2-3 (maybe more) times for about 20
bucks a shot. I agree though that initially that $176
bucks for a cartridge is a bit much.

Bought the printer in 1993 for (gasp) $650. It's been a real
workhorse - 50,000+ copies with virtually no problems. However, it's
now starting to act its age a bit, unfortunately...

 

[reboot]

How's the pricing on toner? Any idea what your cost per page looks
like? Thanks!

I've had good luck refilling with toner from
http://www.tonerrefillkits.com/ You have to buy a "tool kit" for
$12.95, but it's a one-time purchase. Then the refill kits are 29.95
each if you buy two or more - about 50% savings over a new toner
cartridge.
I've never calculated the price per page. I couldn't even tell you how
much the last box of paper cost me and that was only a couple of
months ago. That, plus the amount of coverage varies a lot from page
to page; some are a half page of text and some include graphics off of
web pages, some I print with the "toner saver" turned on and some with
it turned off. I'd have to get into calculus to figure it out and that
would hurt my brain too much.

Reboot

 

[reboot]

That's what I've done with the Epson ActionLaser. In fact, a couple
years ago I found a place selling the refill kits for about half that
price, but now it appears they're outta business (wonder why).

Is the Samsung easy to refill? With the Epson, you have to pry out
the plastic plug, hard to do without damaging it. So I use my trusty
duct tape over it when done.

Nah, with the toolkit they sell and instructions at the website, it's
a piece of cake. And I'm usually all thumbs. Just don't ever try to
squeeze the bottle to get the toner to come out faster.

Reboot

 

[reboot]

awww, a few differential equations never hurt anybody.

Oh God, now I'm going to have nightmares and flashbacks to the early
seventies.

Reboot

 

[Yianni]

If you notice on all printers the quoted speed is at draft mode. It is
not

the mode everyone chooses to print at. The cleaning cycles don't affect the
total number of pages that much. If you leave the printer off until ready
to print you will not need to run a long cleaning cycle that uses more ink.
The C82 is a great printer.

I don't know where this person is getting the print speeds and cost of
cartridges because he is wrong.

A good quality print can achieved at 720dpi. In this resolution my C80
prints about 1ppm (with 'high speed' box checked) and 0.5ppm (without high
speed checked).
When the cleaning pump in my C80 stopped working, I noticed half ink
consumption. Of course I print about 3 pages a day each time I open the
printer. For higher print jobs the cleaning cycles could afect less the page
yield.
I never gave prices. And of course I think that C82 is a great printer,
especialy for plain paper printing and for office jobs. For better print
quality or printing glossy/matte photo papers I prefer another epson printer
with dye inks.

 

[Safetymom123]

If you are printing text there is no need to print at 720. 360 is great.
My C82 sure prints faster than your quoted 1 page per minute. For the best
photo quality you should be using an Epson photo printer with 6 inks.

 

[zacsmith]

I have an Epson C80 (the older brother of the C82) and although it
prints nicely, the cartridges are expensive (about $70 USD for black
and three colors). Third-party carts are available now, with the black
at about $15, but it's not compatible with the printer circuitry, so
it won't tell you when it's about empty, plus the Epson application
complains about having to use a non-Epson ink cartridge (you can
override). The third-party carts are also hard to get started and
leave lots of blank lines for the first 10 or so pages.

The printer prints beautifully, until the ink dries a little and plugs
a hole or two in the output jets, then you have white lines in your
printout forever. Plus, the little reservoir at the left end of the
carriage which holds the tiny bit of black ink the self-cleaning
deposits there at the end of four or so passes, fills up and starts
messing up the back of your pages, the interior deck of the printer,
and everything else inside. Yeecch. I wish I could still find carts
for my old Stylewriter 1500.....

So, I was looking at the Samsung ML-1710 as a cheap replacement for
the inket until I can afford a more expensive laser printer. It seems
like it will work and has gotten good user reviews on Amazon.com.

My question: Does anyone know if the ML-1710 will print a page from
QuarkXPress?

Thanks!
Zack

 

[buck]

Bought the printer in 1993 for (gasp) $650. It's been a real
workhorse - 50,000+ copies with virtually no problems. However, it's
now starting to act its age a bit, unfortunately...

Mine is still pumpin' out the pages on a daily basis.

The carts seem to crap out about half way through thier
4th to 5th refill..

 

[Steve]

Nah, with the toolkit they sell and instructions at the website, it's
a piece of cake. And I'm usually all thumbs. Just don't ever try to
squeeze the bottle to get the toner to come out faster.

Sure wish you woulda told me this a few years ago, before I did just
that. And you'll hafta beat it outta me to get me to tell about the
time I used a funnel that kept filling up, never occurred to me to
just stick a pencil or a screwdriver down the middle, so I kept
shaking it to get the toner to start moving again.

 

[Steve]

Oh God, now I'm going to have nightmares and flashbacks to the early
seventies.

Mid sixties for me. Sigh.

 

[Bob]

Is there something inherent in the Samsung that makes their cartridges
more expensive? (about $80 for 3,000 pages, vs $50 or so for the
Brother 1450)

The brother may, if it's like others they make, not replace the drum with
the toner. The drum is a separate unit which is very expensive when it needs
replacement.

Bob