Sad state of Mini-ITX computers

[mr potatohead]

I thought these little computers might have the potential to replace
bulky desktops for a cheaper price. I was wrong.

- The fastest Eden processor, a 1 GHz cpu is about as fast as a PIII 500
MHz.

- If you want a faster system, you can buy a Centrino processor.
Unfortunately they cost far more than an equivalent P4 CPU. The Centrino
motherboards aren't cheap either. Have fun finding one.

- For such a compact motherboard you'd think the computer case would be
inexpensive. Wrong. Casetronic makes some decent looking cases but they
sell for $170! PCI riser card, $40?! Sheeze.

- All other cases sell for around $75-$100. Still not cheap like the
standard $65 desktop/minitowers most people buy. Unfortunately at this
price, you end up with trendy transparent, chrome/see through,
blue-disco-light looking shoebox cases. Either that or they look like
VCRs. I need something for professional/corporate use. These are too cheesy.

The only viable solution for a small PC IMO is a micro ATX system. The
motherboards/cpu combinations are abundant and cheap. Minmaw.com has a
decent micro ATX case. I have a sample. The build quality is very good
and it is quite attractive. They have a Flex-ATX case, which is even
smaller. Unfortunately, Intel never really promoted this form factor so
your choices are limited.

Mini ITX? Pfft.

 

[R. Asby Dragon]

I thought these little computers might have the potential to replace
bulky desktops for a cheaper price. I was wrong.

- The fastest Eden processor, a 1 GHz cpu is about as fast as a PIII 500
MHz.

- If you want a faster system, you can buy a Centrino processor.
Unfortunately they cost far more than an equivalent P4 CPU. The Centrino
motherboards aren't cheap either. Have fun finding one.

- For such a compact motherboard you'd think the computer case would be
inexpensive. Wrong. Casetronic makes some decent looking cases but they
sell for $170! PCI riser card, $40?! Sheeze.

- All other cases sell for around $75-$100. Still not cheap like the
standard $65 desktop/minitowers most people buy. Unfortunately at this
price, you end up with trendy transparent, chrome/see through,
blue-disco-light looking shoebox cases. Either that or they look like
VCRs. I need something for professional/corporate use. These are too cheesy.

The only viable solution for a small PC IMO is a micro ATX system. The
motherboards/cpu combinations are abundant and cheap. Minmaw.com has a
decent micro ATX case. I have a sample. The build quality is very good
and it is quite attractive. They have a Flex-ATX case, which is even
smaller. Unfortunately, Intel never really promoted this form factor so
your choices are limited.

Mini ITX? Pfft.

I can't read your mind; but it's obvious that you haven't "looked
very hard" and/or thought about other solutions.

I can agree on the "bling-bling" factor. Case windows and lights
don't make a puter work any better . I build my own; and I actually
like Aptiva 2137/2138 cases . Nobody expects to see one of these
running a 'killer gamer machine inside".

I've got an older 800 PIII Gateway "Flex-ATX" for my wife; it's a
keen little box that works just fine for her needs; but it's
definitely limited . It's about the size of an LA phonebook.

There's a bunch of vendors who build 2U/3U/4U server-style boxes as
desktops or "desk-unders".

 

[Peter Lykkegaard]

I thought these little computers might have the potential to replace
bulky desktops for a cheaper price. I was wrong.

Special don't equal cheap
Look eg at Dells Optiplex series for inspiration

- Peter

 

[John McGaw]

I thought these little computers might have the potential to replace
bulky desktops for a cheaper price. I was wrong.
snipped...

Mini ITX? Pfft.

Have you looked at the Shuttle XPC machines? A bit bigger than ITX but
vastly greater choice of options. Want a fast processor (INTEL or AMD) and
2gB of memory, 250gB SATA hard drive, fast 8X AGP video, DVD R/W? Easy to do
with the Shuttle. And it remains quiet even with a high-power CPU in place
and working hard. Or you can go minimalist -- your choice. Their black cases
are subtle and would not be out of place on a desktop at a business.

 

[nooneimportant]

The mini's do have their uses... take a look at www.mini-itx.com and look at
some of the creations there, most are servers of some sort, either firewall,
web, media, etc... And for that job they are great! I have considered one
myself to run smoothewall on, but decided to just stick with local SW
firewall instead due to total cost involved in building a decent ITXbox...
But they are cool little buggers. Perfect for a "Goof Off" machine that you
want to play around on with alternate OS's without worrying about FUBAR'ing
your primary computer, PERFECT for a small office setting where the only
programs that SHOULD be running are things like word and excel, no need for
fancy 3d graphics.... Just have to look at it from the perspective that its
not a sportscar, but why buy a sportscar when what you really need is a
Pickup Truck???

 

[mr potatohead]

I have looked very hard. Google: mini itx case. Nearly every case is one
of the expensive Casetronics, or a consumer-orientated case with trendy,
translucent colored plexiglass.

 

[mr potatohead]

I've also looked at the XPCs. First of all, they are too consumerish.
Secondly, I cannot use them because they are proprietary. Otherwise I'd
buy an MSI Hetis, which is closer to what I'm interested in:

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/produ...m_detail.php?kind=4&CHIP=54&NAME=Hetis Series

I was reading the user forums and it turns out that some people have
been waiting for weeks just to get an answer on how to order a
replacement CPU clip that is easily broken.

What will happen two years later when you discover the PSUs are faulty
because they all start failing? Get out your electronic parts catalog
and start warming up your soldering iron.

Keep in mind, I am not looking for just one or even a few small
computers. I want to standardize my entire company on a smaller form
factor. We're talking 100 of PCs.

I will gladly take an Eden system for a thin client, but a thick client
requires a 2 GHz or better processor IMO.

 

[mr potatohead]

I think www.mini-itx.com is actually more of a hobbyist web site. While
I do find some of the information useful, I still see the same consumer/
non-professional cases and motherboard/cpu combos. And if there is a
case that I like, it's usually priced at "industrial" premiums.

I don't mind paying more for a quality case. But up to $170? I can buy
an MSI Hetis case + motherboard w/865 chipset for that price.

Like I said in my other post, the Hetis is proprietary, so it's out of
the question. For a thick client, Micro ATX is the only sure way to go.
I think a VIA eden system would be great for a thin client. Now if I can
only find a decent case that's priced right.

 

[Ric H]

I've also looked at the XPCs. First of all, they are too consumerish.
Secondly, I cannot use them because they are proprietary. Otherwise
I'd buy an MSI Hetis, which is closer to what I'm interested in:

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/produ...m_detail.php?kind=4&CHIP=54&NAME=Hetis Series

I was reading the user forums and it turns out that some people have
been waiting for weeks just to get an answer on how to order a
replacement CPU clip that is easily broken.

What will happen two years later when you discover the PSUs are faulty
because they all start failing? Get out your electronic parts catalog
and start warming up your soldering iron.

Keep in mind, I am not looking for just one or even a few small
computers. I want to standardize my entire company on a smaller form
factor. We're talking 100 of PCs.

I will gladly take an Eden system for a thin client, but a thick
client requires a 2 GHz or better processor IMO.

what? you've obviously never opened a shuttle.

ric

 

[mr potatohead]

Taken from www.shuttle.com, various XPC prodcut spec pages:

Mainboard FB75
Form Factor : Shuttle Form Factor

Mainboard FN41v3.1
Form Factor : Shuttle Form Factor

MAINBOARD FS56
Form Factor : Shuttle Form Factor

Mainboard FT62
Form Factor: Shuttle Form Factor

Looks proprietary to me.

 

[Adam S]

Like I said in my other post, the Hetis is proprietary, so it's out of
the question. For a thick client, Micro ATX is the only sure way to go.
I think a VIA eden system would be great for a thin client. Now if I can
only find a decent case that's priced right.

Google for Aopen Cases.

http://www.myaopen.com/slimpc.html

Uses the microATX form factor which has quite a few makers of motherboards.
The power units ARE made only for these cases but in two years of use we
have not had one fail yet (we have 100 PCs on 24/7, all made in these
cases).

Lots of choice of styles too.

Prices appear to be about 40 - 50 USD

Adam S

 

[Ric H]

Taken from www.shuttle.com, various XPC prodcut spec pages:

Mainboard FB75
Form Factor : Shuttle Form Factor

Mainboard FN41v3.1
Form Factor : Shuttle Form Factor

MAINBOARD FS56
Form Factor : Shuttle Form Factor

Mainboard FT62
Form Factor: Shuttle Form Factor

Looks proprietary to me.

and what are you going to fill your mini itx boxes with? made by via or
eden, is it? sheesh.

what's wrong with proprietary (read, custom form-factor) motherboards
*provided they use standard components*?

 

[mr potatohead]

I explained very clearly in my prior post why I choose to stay away from
proprietary hardware.

To answer your question specifically, a motherboard is the home of many
sub components (eg., audio, nic, serial ports, etc). What if there is a
compatibility problem with the nic or serial ports or USB or firewire or
perhaps the BIOS is just a piece of garbage? What if there is something
wrong with the PCI buss that causes problems with say, a video capture
card (skipping)?

And whose to say the capacitors aren't like the shotty ones found in
many a Abit motherboards? Would you like to spend every other day
soldering in new capacitors (like I used to do with Abits) or would you
rather toss the motherboard for one from a different mfg. that is 100%
compatible with your case+psu?

 

[mr potatohead]

Thanks for the info Adam. I've looked at those cases by Aopen. But I
prefer the curvey Minmaw MM3151s:

http://www.minmaw.com/ruby.html

I have one here in front of me, it looks very nice. Take it look at one.