running chkdsk on hard drive.


J

Johnnief

Below is a log file of a chkdsk /F of the C partition of my hard drive.
It seems that every time I run it there are index entry and security
descriptor errors. Even if I run chkdsk /F again right after fixing them
there will be more errors. Is this normal?

Thanks
Johnnie

-------------insert----------

Checking file system on C:
The type of the file system is NTFS.
Volume label is Local Disk.

A disk check has been scheduled.
Windows will now check the disk.
Cleaning up minor inconsistencies on the drive.
Cleaning up 10 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 10 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 10 unused security descriptors.
CHKDSK is verifying file data (stage 4 of 5)...
File data verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying free space (stage 5 of 5)...
Free space verification is complete.

20482843 KB total disk space.
13982136 KB in 51590 files.
18148 KB in 4990 indexes.
0 KB in bad sectors.
129079 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
6353480 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
5120710 total allocation units on disk.
1588370 allocation units available on disk.

Internal Info:
80 f3 00 00 0f dd 00 00 90 46 01 00 00 00 00 00 .........F......
9d 03 00 00 01 00 00 00 9c 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
d2 76 9c 01 00 00 00 00 b6 d9 96 1a 00 00 00 00 .v..............
52 e0 03 01 00 00 00 00 88 3c c1 6e 01 00 00 00 R........<.n....
ce ff b7 3d 00 00 00 00 88 a6 81 d0 01 00 00 00 ...=............
99 9e 36 00 00 00 00 00 10 3a 07 00 86 c9 00 00 ..6......:......
00 00 00 00 00 e0 66 55 03 00 00 00 7e 13 00 00 ......fU....~...

Windows has finished checking your disk.
Please wait while your computer restarts.
 
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B

Banned Apache

Johnnief <[email protected]>, the horrid grandpa and dateless bunghole
basher who likes exhausting ****ing with beagles, and whose partner is a
common tart with a hideous wand waxer, wrote in
Below is a log file of a chkdsk /F of the C partition of my hard
drive. It seems that every time I run it there are index entry and
security descriptor errors. Even if I run chkdsk /F again right after
fixing them there will be more errors. Is this normal?
It's like wiping your arse.
If you keep wiping without getting it clean then something is ****ed.

HTH



--
Lunch was Nice;
Reprehensible pigeon gonad with apple dressing and cloying abscess with
loathsome prairie dog running sore, arranged in a bubbling tureen
stuffed with big morsels of onion and artichoke in salt water, a side of
chocolate and a gallon of garden snail snot.
 
P

philo

Johnnief said:
Below is a log file of a chkdsk /F of the C partition of my hard drive.
It seems that every time I run it there are index entry and security
descriptor errors. Even if I run chkdsk /F again right after fixing them
there will be more errors. Is this normal?
<snip>

Nope, that's not at all normal...
run the HD diagnostic...

I have also seen errors like that with improperly clocked RAM
 
J

Johnnief

Understanding what CHKDSK does
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314835/en-us#XSLTH315412112312012112012
0

From...
An explanation of the new /C and /I Switches that are available to use
with Chkdsk.exe
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314835
This does not answer my question. I know what chkdsk does. I don't care
about those other switches right now.

I had a very simple question which you avoided for some reason. Is it
normal for there to be index entry and security descriptor errors every
time you run chkdsk /F?

BTW, you are top posting and including the end of message indicator (two
dashes) at the bottom of your top post which cuts off the rest of the
message from anyone doing a follow-up.
 
R

Richard Urban MVP

Even if I run chkdsk /F again right after fixing them
there will be more errors. Is this normal?

What do you mean by "again right after"? Where are you running chkdsk from?

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
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W

Wesley Vogel

There is not one thing wrong with your chkdsk log.

[[Understanding what CHKDSK does
CHKDSK's activity is divided into three major passes, during which CHKDSK
examines all the metadata on the volume, and an optional fourth pass.

Metadata is "data about data." Metadata is the file system "overhead," so to
speak, that keeps track of information about all of the files that are
stored on the volume. Metadata includes information about what allocation
units make up the data for a given file, what allocation units are free,
what allocation units contain bad sectors, and so on. The data that the file
contains, on the other hand, is termed "user data." NTFS protects its
metadata through the use of a transaction log. User data is not protected in
this way.

Phase 1: Checking files
During its first pass, CHKDSK displays a message that tells you that CHKDSK
is verifying files and also displays the percent of verification that is
completed, counting from 0 to 100 percent. During this phase, CHKDSK
examines each file record segment in the volume's master file table (MFT).

A specific file record segment in the MFT uniquely identifies every file and
directory on an NTFS volume. The "percent completed" that CHKDSK displays
during this phase is the percentage of the MFT that CHKDSK has verified.
During this pass, CHKDSK examines each file record segment for internal
consistency and builds two bitmaps, one representing the file record
segments that are in use and the other representing the clusters on the
volume that are in use.

At the end of this phase, CHKDSK has identified the space that is in use and
the space that is available, both within the MFT and on the volume as a
whole. NTFS keeps track of this information in bitmaps of its own, which are
stored on the disk. CHKDSK compares its results with the bitmaps that NTFS
keeps. If there are discrepancies, the discrepancies are noted in the CHKDSK
output. For example, if a file record segment that was in use is found to be
corrupted, the disk clusters that were associated with that file record
segment are marked as "available" in the CHKDSK bitmap but are marked as "in
use" in the NTFS bitmap.

Phase 2: Checking indexes
During its second pass, CHKDSK displays a message that tells you that CHKDSK
is verifying indexes and again displays the percent completed, counting from
0 to 100 percent. During this phase, CHKDSK examines each of the indexes on
the volume.

Indexes are essentially NTFS directories. The "percent completed" that
CHKDSK displays during this phase is the percentage of the total number of
the volume's directories that have been checked. During this pass, CHKDSK
examines each directory that is on the volume, checking for internal
consistency and verifying that every file and directory that is represented
by a file record segment in the MFT is referenced by at least one directory.
CHKDSK confirms that every file or subdirectory that is referenced in a
directory actually exists as a valid file record segment in the MFT and also
checks for circular directory references. Finally, CHKDSK confirms that the
time stamps and file size information for the files are up-to-date in the
directory listings for those files.

At the end of this phase, CHKDSK has made sure that there are no "orphaned"
files and that all directory listings are for legitimate files. An orphaned
file is a file for which there is a legitimate file record segment but for
which there is no listing in any directory. An orphaned file often can be
restored to its proper directory if that directory still exists. If the
proper directory no longer exists, CHKDSK creates a directory in the root
directory and places the file there. If CHKDSK finds directory listings for
file record segments that are no longer in use, or for file record segments
that are in use but that do not correspond to the file that is listed in the
directory, CHKDSK simply removes the directory entry for the file record
segment.
Phase 3: Checking security descriptors
During its third pass, CHKDSK displays a message that tells you that CHKDSK
is verifying security descriptors and, for the third time, displays "percent
completed," counting from 0 to 100 percent. During this phase, CHKDSK
examines each security descriptor that is associated with files or
directories that are on the volume.

Security descriptors contain information about ownership of a file or
directory, about NTFS permissions for the file or directory, and about
auditing for the file or directory. The "percent completed" that CHKDSK
displays during this phase is the percentage of the volume's files and
directories that have been checked. CHKDSK verifies that each security
descriptor structure is well formed and is internally consistent. CHKDSK
does not verify the actual existence of the users or groups that are listed
or the appropriateness of the permissions that are granted.

Phase 4: Checking sectors
If the /R switch is in effect, CHKDSK runs a fourth pass to look for bad
sectors in the volume's free space. CHKDSK attempts to read every sector on
the volume to confirm that the sector is usable. Even without the /R switch,
CHKDSK always reads sectors that are associated with metadata. Sectors that
are associated with user data are read during earlier phases of CHKDSK if
the /R switch is specified.

When CHKDSK finds an unreadable sector, NTFS adds the cluster that contains
that sector to its list of bad clusters. If the bad cluster is in use,
CHKDSK allocates a new cluster to do the job of the bad cluster. If you are
using a fault-tolerant disk, NTFS recovers the bad cluster's data and writes
the data to the newly allocated cluster. Otherwise, the new cluster is
filled with a pattern of 0xFF bytes.

If NTFS encounters unreadable sectors during the course of normal operation,
NTFS remaps the sectors in the same way that it does when CHKDSK runs.
Therefore, using the /R switch is usually not essential. However, using the
/R switch is a convenient way to scan the entire volume if you suspect that
a disk might have bad sectors. ]]
Understanding what CHKDSK does
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314835/en-us#XSLTH3154121123120121120120



--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In
 
J

Johnnief

Even if I run chkdsk /F again right after fixing them


What do you mean by "again right after"? Where are you running chkdsk
from?
Thanks for the help folks.

I am running chkdsk from the tools tab of the properties of the C drive
in Windows Explorer, loged in as admin. I check both available options
which would be the same /R I believe. I don't know any other
way of running it. Well I can run it from Partition Magic which
dismounts the drive and and disconnects all file handles but that seemd
like over kill or something. I tried it from safemode and safemode
command prompt but both scheduled it for a reboot anyway so I don't see
any diference from regular XP.

I mean that if I run chkdsk as I said above, then after it reboots in to
XP I schedule it to run again right away with out doing anything else on
the machine, it comes back with errors, sometimes even more errors then
before. Sometimes just 1 or two errors but then the next time there will
be always be 25 or so errors.

I have a 250 Meg Maxtor drive only a couple of months old. I downloaded
PowerMax and it found no problems with the drive on the extended test.
Took over two hours to check it.

After running PowerMax I again ran chkdsk /F as I explained above. Low
and behold for the first time in three days of running chkdsk, it came
back with no errors. (It did say, Cleaning up minor inconsistencies on
the drive, but showed no errors) Then I scheduled it to run again right
away and it came back that time with 1 error. Both chkdsks are pasted
below. My machine seems to be running fine through all of this.

Someome mentioned memory, I have one gig of DDR and I checked in setup
and all settings seem to be defaulted to automatic.




===================================================
=======chkdsk at 10:34:57 PM ========NO errors=====
===================================================

Checking file system on C:
The type of the file system is NTFS.
Volume label is Local Disk.

A disk check has been scheduled.
Windows will now check the disk.
Cleaning up minor inconsistencies on the drive.
CHKDSK is verifying file data (stage 4 of 5)...
File data verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying free space (stage 5 of 5)...
Free space verification is complete.

20482843 KB total disk space.
13916816 KB in 47291 files.
16644 KB in 4987 indexes.
0 KB in bad sectors.
129079 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
6420304 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
5120710 total allocation units on disk.
1605076 allocation units available on disk.

Internal Info:
80 f3 00 00 41 cc 00 00 5f 27 01 00 00 00 00 00 ....A..._'......
9d 03 00 00 01 00 00 00 92 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
c4 4f 95 01 00 00 00 00 b6 25 d2 15 00 00 00 00 .O.......%......
28 6b ee 00 00 00 00 00 d6 57 6e 58 01 00 00 00 (k.......WnX....
88 f0 58 42 00 00 00 00 c0 eb f7 b9 01 00 00 00 ..XB............
99 9e 36 00 00 00 00 00 10 3a 07 00 bb b8 00 00 ..6......:......
00 00 00 00 00 40 6a 51 03 00 00 00 7b 13 00 00 [email protected]{...

Windows has finished checking your disk.
Please wait while your computer restarts.

==================================================
=======chkdsk at 11:02:04 PM ========1 errors=====
==================================================

Checking file system on C:
The type of the file system is NTFS.
Volume label is Local Disk.


A disk check has been scheduled.
Windows will now check the disk.
Cleaning up minor inconsistencies on the drive.
Cleaning up 1 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 1 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 1 unused security descriptors.

20482843 KB total disk space.
13916812 KB in 47291 files.
16644 KB in 4987 indexes.
0 KB in bad sectors.
129079 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
6420308 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
5120710 total allocation units on disk.
1605077 allocation units available on disk.

Internal Info:
80 f3 00 00 41 cc 00 00 5f 27 01 00 00 00 00 00 ....A..._'......
9d 03 00 00 01 00 00 00 93 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
d2 76 9c 01 00 00 00 00 da 22 10 16 00 00 00 00 .v......."......
52 e0 03 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 R...............
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 18 9f 8d 1f 00 00 00 00 ................
99 9e 36 00 00 00 00 00 10 3a 07 00 bb b8 00 00 ..6......:......
00 00 00 00 00 30 6a 51 03 00 00 00 7b 13 00 00 .....0jQ....{...

Windows has finished checking your disk.
Please wait while your computer restarts.
 
R

relic

Johnnief said:
Thanks for the help folks.

I am running chkdsk from the tools tab of the properties of the C
drive in Windows Explorer, loged in as admin. I check both available
options which would be the same /R I believe. I don't know any other
way of running it.
Run "chkdsk /p" in the Recovery Console.
 
R

Richard Urban MVP

Thought so. Run it from the recovery console with the /p option (multiple
times - until it shows no further corrections).

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
J

Johnnief

Thought so. Run it from the recovery console with the /p option
(multiple times - until it shows no further corrections).
Done that. It took about 5 passes, rebooting back to the recovery
console between each, but it came back with no errors. But still if I
check afterwards from Win Explorer scheduled on reboot it shows errors
every time. I go back to the recovery console and run chkdsk /p and the
first time I run it it will say it cleaned up errors, I exit and reboot
back to the recovery console and run chkdsk /p again and it does not
find any errors. Back in windows I can run chkdsk from a command prompt
in read only and it finds no errors but if I schedule a chkdsk on reboot
there will be errors in the log file. It's almost like scheduling a
chkdsk on reboot causes the errors??

Below I have posted a read only chkdsk from the command prompt, followed
but a scheduled chkdsk on reboot from Win Explorer with in minutes of
each other. Notice the errors in the second one. This happens every
time.

More good news, I have just found out that the same thing is happening
on my other computer. I copied the partition from that machine to this
one about 2 or 3 months ago when I bought this disk. The problem is that
I never noticed it because I had no reason to run chkdsk twice in a row,
I always figured that after running once it was fixed.




======================================
=======from command prompt============
======================================
WARNING! F parameter not specified.
Running CHKDSK in read-only mode.

CHKDSK is verifying files (stage 1 of 3)...
File verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying indexes (stage 2 of 3)...
Index verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying security descriptors (stage 3 of 3)...
Security descriptor verification completed.
Windows has checked the file system and found no problems.

223713125 KB total disk space.
110824692 KB in 5036 files.
2884 KB in 1297 indexes.
0 KB in bad sectors.
83481 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
112802068 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
55928281 total allocation units on disk.
28200517 allocation units available on disk.
===================end========



===============================
===========from reboot=========
===============================

Checking file system on C:
The type of the file system is NTFS.
Volume label is Local Disk.


A disk check has been scheduled.
Windows will now check the disk.
Cleaning up minor inconsistencies on the drive.
Cleaning up 1 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 1 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 1 unused security descriptors.

20482843 KB total disk space.
13942204 KB in 48205 files.
16972 KB in 5005 indexes.
0 KB in bad sectors.
129083 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
6394584 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
5120710 total allocation units on disk.
1598646 allocation units available on disk.

Internal Info:
80 f3 00 00 e5 cf 00 00 3f 2e 01 00 00 00 00 00 ........?.......
9d 03 00 00 01 00 00 00 95 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
1e b2 97 01 00 00 00 00 54 41 d1 16 00 00 00 00 ........TA......
ea 56 fa 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 .V..............
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 46 82 53 20 00 00 00 00 ........F.S ....
99 9e 36 00 00 00 00 00 10 3a 07 00 4d bc 00 00 ..6......:..M...
00 00 00 00 00 f0 f6 52 03 00 00 00 8d 13 00 00 .......R........

Windows has finished checking your disk.
Please wait while your computer restarts.
 
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J

Johnnief

Does anyone else know anything I can try to get rid of these errors, or
maybe a better group to ask in?

Thanks.
 
J

Johnnief

Yes. Just buy a new disk and do a Clean Install.
Are you being sarcastic??

I hope so becuase I can't really afford a new drive right now. I hope
there is some other solution. Can you tell me the cause of these errors
that can not be fixed? Are these errors moving with the partition if I
copy it to another drive? Or is the drive it's self where the errors are
located? POwerMax says the drive is fine? I am certin my latest backup
of that partition would have those errors if the errors are in the
partition.

Could I copy the files, not the partition, from this drive to another
one and then do a freash install of XP, then copy the files back over
top of the freash install to get rid of the errors. I have a lot of
installed apps that would take a long time to reinstall.

Since my system seems to be working fine, no noticable problems, could I
just ignore these errors? What problems could they cause?

Thanks for your help.
 
R

relic

Johnnief said:
Are you being sarcastic??

I hope so becuase I can't really afford a new drive right now. I hope
there is some other solution. Can you tell me the cause of these
errors that can not be fixed? Are these errors moving with the
partition if I copy it to another drive? Or is the drive it's self
where the errors are located? POwerMax says the drive is fine? I am
certin my latest backup of that partition would have those errors if
the errors are in the partition.

Could I copy the files, not the partition, from this drive to another
one and then do a freash install of XP, then copy the files back over
top of the freash install to get rid of the errors. I have a lot of
installed apps that would take a long time to reinstall.

Since my system seems to be working fine, no noticable problems,
could I just ignore these errors? What problems could they cause?

Thanks for your help.
You can:
Buy a new disk if you think there is a problem with the old one.
Get the diagnostics from the manufacturer of your disk and restore it back
to the way it was the day it left the factory.
Ignore the errors if there's no problem caused by them.

Often, a format and clean installation fixes what you are describing.
 
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K

Kerry Brown

Johnnief said:
Are you being sarcastic??

I hope so becuase I can't really afford a new drive right now. I hope
there is some other solution. Can you tell me the cause of these
errors that can not be fixed? Are these errors moving with the
partition if I copy it to another drive? Or is the drive it's self
where the errors are located? POwerMax says the drive is fine? I am
certin my latest backup of that partition would have those errors if
the errors are in the partition.

Could I copy the files, not the partition, from this drive to another
one and then do a freash install of XP, then copy the files back over
top of the freash install to get rid of the errors. I have a lot of
installed apps that would take a long time to reinstall.

Since my system seems to be working fine, no noticable problems,
could I just ignore these errors? What problems could they cause?

Thanks for your help.
What service pack level are you at?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/831374/
 
J

Johnnief

You can:
Buy a new disk if you think there is a problem with the old one.
Get the diagnostics from the manufacturer of your disk and restore it
back to the way it was the day it left the factory.
Ignore the errors if there's no problem caused by them.

Often, a format and clean installation fixes what you are describing.
This sounds like the way to go, thanks.


Johnnie
 
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