Restore going a little too far?

[bartman]

Why would the system restore operation go so far as too delete a folder that
I made in my download folder? Shouldn't it be leaving user created folders
alone?

I paid for and downloaded a piece of software, but had to restore to a point
just before that. I was shocked to see that the system restore saw fit to
delete my folder and download.

Thankfully I was able to get the download again and not have to pay twice.

I thought Restore is supposed to leave these things alone?

Bart

 

[bartman]

No, it was in a sub-folder I created under the main "downloads" folder. This
isn't actually the first time it has done this now that I think about it. It
also deleted a folder I made on a "d" drive partition one other time. I
thought I had deleted it myself and figured that was odd I had done that, but
after this I know the restore operation did it.

Bart

 

[Dave T.]

Why would the system restore operation go so far as too delete a folder that
I made in my download folder? Shouldn't it be leaving user created folders
alone?

I paid for and downloaded a piece of software, but had to restore to a point
just before that. I was shocked to see that the system restore saw fit to
delete my folder and download.

Thankfully I was able to get the download again and not have to pay twice.

I thought Restore is supposed to leave these things alone?

Bart

Probably for the same reason it will get rid of user created shortcuts
that point to a system file on the desktop. That is, the software you
downloaded is yours, but the folder you created within downloads would
be part of a system folder. The restore rightly eliminated the folder,
and unfortunately your software had to go too.

 

[Mick Murphy]

Any downloaded programs I save in a folder I created under Documents.
Just redirect where you want your download to be saved; don't let it have
it's own way!

 

[bartman]

So in otherwords, don't use the "Downloads" folder because what you download
into any subfoler there may not be safe if you need to restore?

That makes perfect sense. Not. Why even make a downloads folder? I might
as well just create them myself somewhere else.

I just have to shake my head at the wonder that is Vista.

Bart

 

[bartman]

Probably for the same reason it will get rid of user created shortcuts
that point to a system file on the desktop. That is, the software you
downloaded is yours, but the folder you created within downloads would
be part of a system folder. The restore rightly eliminated the folder,
and unfortunately your software had to go too.

It may be "rightly" in someone's mind, but to me it isn't. It shouldn't
touch any folder I create regardless of where it is and when it is made. In
this case no harm was done, but it could have cost hours of work if it had
happened in another folder. Why didn't it wipe out the new Excel document I
had created in the documents folder as well then? Should I move those so
Vista can't decide to touch those at a later date? What is safe?

Bart

 

[Dave T.]

So in otherwords, don't use the "Downloads" folder because what you download
into any subfoler there may not be safe if you need to restore?

That makes perfect sense. Not. Why even make a downloads folder? I might
as well just create them myself somewhere else.

I just have to shake my head at the wonder that is Vista.

Bart

So, in other words, Windows has created a place for you to keep things
that you don't want to lose. "Documents" is that place. "Downloads would
be a system folder so that you can find your downloads when complete,
but then if you want to save that download forever, you must employ your
own sense of organization and move it to a safe place.

 

[Dave T.]

It may be "rightly" in someone's mind, but to me it isn't. It shouldn't
touch any folder I create regardless of where it is and when it is made. In
this case no harm was done, but it could have cost hours of work if it had
happened in another folder. Why didn't it wipe out the new Excel document I
had created in the documents folder as well then? Should I move those so
Vista can't decide to touch those at a later date? What is safe?

Bart

The new Excel document was in the Documents folder, that is why it was
not wiped out.

I understand what you're saying, but if system restore is to do what
it's name implies, then there is no choice. It's difficult to know what
is safe, but I have known since Win 95 that the only thing on the
computer that belongs to you is "(My)Documents". All else belongs to the
system.

 

[bartman]

So, in other words, Windows has created a place for you to keep things
that you don't want to lose. "Documents" is that place. "Downloads would
be a system folder so that you can find your downloads when complete,
but then if you want to save that download forever, you must employ your
own sense of organization and move it to a safe place.

I think if I make a sub-folder in the downloads folder the folders should be
safe because they are user-created, not system created. If I just dump
things into the main folder they are fair game for deleting.

That is organizing to me. I made the sub-folder, put the download in that
sub-folder so I know what it is and where so Vista should leave it alone.

In any case. I won't be keeping anything there anymore. I will just save
it somewhere else from the beginning so I don't forget to move it later when
it may be gone and too late.

If Vista could actually run stable for more than one day it might not have
mattered, but it seems like everytime I try to fix one problem with it
another three are created and I have to use restore far too often to try
another way.

Thanks.

Bart

 

[Not Me]

I make a new folder, right on the root of the drive, that I name
'downloads'.
System restore has never touched any of my files.
But if you create a folder in any Windows created folder, it may be deleted
during a restore.
You can't have a data file that is altered by a program in Program files on
Vista or it malfunctions also.
Right or wrong, that is the way MS decided to do it.
What they call 'improved security' is just a pain in the rectum for most
users.

 

[bartman]

That is what I'll be doing too. I have stronger words than "rectum" for it
though. I'm a little tired of Vista deciding what is right and wrong for my
use on its own and that extends far beyond this particular annoyance.

Bart

 

[Ron\(Tx\)]

That is what I'll be doing too. I have stronger words than "rectum" for
it
though. I'm a little tired of Vista deciding what is right and wrong for
my
use on its own and that extends far beyond this particular annoyance.

Bart

I created and have used a folder named 'ProgramUpdates' for years. Nothing
is there has ever been deleted. In fact, some of them are from computers so
old that they no longer work, or have any value. I wonder why I haven't
cleaned that folder out..............There is also a "Data' folder for all
programs data folders/files. Then a "Program" folder for all user installed
programs. Try it....It works....
Ron

 

[CB]

I think if I make a sub-folder in the downloads folder the folders should be
safe because they are user-created, not system created. If I just dump
things into the main folder they are fair game for deleting.

That is organizing to me. I made the sub-folder, put the download in that
sub-folder so I know what it is and where so Vista should leave it alone.

In any case. I won't be keeping anything there anymore. I will just save
it somewhere else from the beginning so I don't forget to move it later when
it may be gone and too late.

If Vista could actually run stable for more than one day it might not have
mattered, but it seems like everytime I try to fix one problem with it
another three are created and I have to use restore far too often to try
another way.

Thanks.

Bart

bartman,

You just don't want to listen, do you? You have been informed as to why
your program is gone. YOU put it in the wrong place.
Learn how your operating system works and you will not lose what you
don't want to lose. Don't blame Vista for your own ineptitude. Your reasoning
is flawed.
By the way, have you ever heard of "Backup". I backup my files to a
mirrored second drive in the machine. I then backup to a 500GB external WD
MyBook. I then take the second backup and back it up to a second 500GB
external WD MyBook. I sleep very well at night. I never worry about losing
files or applications.
I also use Acronis TrueImage to take a full image of my hard drive in
the machine every day. I place this image in my first external HD and then
back it up to the second external HD. Overkill? Maybe. I don't think so.
Have a nice day.

C.B.

 

[bartman]

I've done that way back on my W95 machine. I had never used the default "My
Documents" folders or any others that have been there. When I got this new
machine I figured I might as well make use of those folders instead of "old
ways."

I'll be going back to my "old ways" again. I think it is a pity that I have
to.

Bart

 

[Ronnie Vernon MVP]

Bartman

You need to understand exactly how system restore works. Take a minute to
read the short article on the following website. This will explain what
happened to that programs file and the logic behind why it was deleted.

The Filing Cabinet : Understanding how System Restore in Windows Vista
treats executable files:
https://blogs.technet.com/filecab/a...in-windows-vista-treats-executable-files.aspx

 

[bartman]

Again, it makes perfect sense if the file is just sitting in the download
folder. The fact that I made a folder and put that file into that folder is
where it gets out of control. It should see that the folder is user made and
leave both the folder and file alone. Clearly if I took the time to do this
the OS must figure out that I have a reason for doing it and not touch it.

The logic, as stated in the article, is that it is removing the .exe file
that may have been the root cause of a problem to begin with, but since I can
go in and then restore that file it really isn't protecting anyone from
anything. It is all there to bring back and screw things up again if someone
wants too.

Just leave the user created folders alone in the first place or build in
some controls to ask if this or that should be done before just flying along
deleting things. It's not like Vista doesn't ask questions every 2 seconds
anyway so what's one or two dozen more?

Until someone gets a clue that not all users need this kind of hand holding
every second I'm just going to play it safe and move everything important
onto another drive or DVD. Hopefully the day doesn't come where Vista will
walk around the room looking for a CD to trash just in case it might cause a
problem.

Bart

 

[Dave T.]

Bartman

You need to understand exactly how system restore works. Take a minute
to read the short article on the following website. This will explain
what happened to that programs file and the logic behind why it was
deleted.

The Filing Cabinet : Understanding how System Restore in Windows Vista
treats executable files:
https://blogs.technet.com/filecab/a...in-windows-vista-treats-executable-files.aspx

Ronnie,
as an addendum to this, all interested in this thread should also take
note if they perform one simple act all the heartache can be averted. I
too have created subfolders in my download folder for archiving drivers.
These executables survive system restore simply because I have included
them in the restore point. Create a restore point after making the download!

 

[Ronnie Vernon MVP]

Bartman

You're still missing the point of how System Restore works. It's not
designed to backup types of folders, it's designed to backup types of files,
regardless of where they are located or how they were created.

Think about it.

 

[Ronnie Vernon MVP]

Dave

Excellent!