Replacing hard drive

[m32]

Hello,

I need to replace an ageing 180 gig (boot) drive, and I found a great
deal on a 160 gig drive. If I only using 100 gigs of the 180, can I
just transfer the what's on 180 to the 160 without any problems? I'm
assuming that I will use whatever software comes with the drive to do
the transfer. Thanks!

 

[Jerry]

Yes, will work; but with prices so low why not get something a lot bigger?

 

[JS]

Yes you can, but keep in mind that if the drive you buy is an 'OEM' version
you get the hard drive and nothing else.
So you will need to download the software from the drive manufacture's web
site.

If you purchase a 'Retail' version you get the software CD, cables and
install sheet.

JS

 

[Big_Al]

Hello,

I need to replace an ageing 180 gig (boot) drive, and I found a great
deal on a 160 gig drive. If I only using 100 gigs of the 180, can I
just transfer the what's on 180 to the 160 without any problems? I'm
assuming that I will use whatever software comes with the drive to do
the transfer. Thanks!

Even if you get an OEM version, you can get a free trial copy of Acronis
True Image Home. It will clone a drive perfectly. As a matter of
fact I think the Seagate wizard is a trimmed down version the Seagate
gives out on its website just so you can copy data on a newly purchased
drive.

 

[Allen]

Hello! You guys are right except that either you buy it in retail or OEM, the
drive does not come with cloning or imaging software. Retail - it only comes
with the utility disc for formatting or enabling big drive space, etc. which
if you buy OEM - you can freely download from the vendor the exact utility
program instead of disc as the retail provide.

 

[Big_Al]

Hello! You guys are right except that either you buy it in retail or OEM, the
drive does not come with cloning or imaging software. Retail - it only comes
with the utility disc for formatting or enabling big drive space, etc. which
if you buy OEM - you can freely download from the vendor the exact utility
program instead of disc as the retail provide.

I've never looked at the CD that comes with those retail drives, as a
matter of fact, they go in the round file. And the last drive I bought
was OEM cause I didn't need anything other than the drive and 10$ diff,
is a lot for a cable, cd and screws, all unwanted.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[m32]

Even if you get an OEM version, you can get a free trial copy of Acronis
True Image Home. It will clone a drive perfectly. As a matter of
fact I think the Seagate wizard is a trimmed down version the Seagate
gives out on its website just so you can copy data on a newly purchased
drive.

I bought a new 500 gig Seagate SATA drive to replace my aging 200 gig
drive. I used the DiscWizard to clone the drive (I thought). The
original drive had two partitions, one containing the HP recovery
stuff. I unplugged the old drive after the process, and the computer
would not boot. I plugged it back in to attempt a repair of some kind,
and it booted fine. In disk Management, it shows G: (the new drive) as
healthy system, and the C: drive (the old one) as pagefile. I decided
to just try the whole operation over again, and the Discwizard won't
let me reclone to the new drive, the option is greyed out. The
original plan was to replace the old drive and use it as storage.
Where did I go wrong? How can I fix this? Thanks ahead of time.

 

[Big_Al]

I bought a new 500 gig Seagate SATA drive to replace my aging 200 gig
drive. I used the DiscWizard to clone the drive (I thought). The
original drive had two partitions, one containing the HP recovery
stuff. I unplugged the old drive after the process, and the computer
would not boot. I plugged it back in to attempt a repair of some kind,
and it booted fine. In disk Management, it shows G: (the new drive) as
healthy system, and the C: drive (the old one) as pagefile. I decided
to just try the whole operation over again, and the Discwizard won't
let me reclone to the new drive, the option is greyed out. The
original plan was to replace the old drive and use it as storage.
Where did I go wrong? How can I fix this? Thanks ahead of time.

When you finished the clone, you then switched drives right? Changing
master/slave jumpers and cables and all? The 500Gig (even though it
might have been G: or something in your XP system) it should be put into
the PC as if it were C:. When you boot the clone operation should
finish & rename it to C: on the way up and it should work.

If you just removed the old 200gig and did nothing then no wonder.

 

[Anna]

When you finished the clone, you then switched drives right? Changing
master/slave jumpers and cables and all? The 500Gig (even though it
might have been G: or something in your XP system) it should be put into
the PC as if it were C:. When you boot the clone operation should finish
& rename it to C: on the way up and it should work.

If you just removed the old 200gig and did nothing then no wonder.

"Big Al":
Note the OP indicates his new 500 GB HDD is a SATA HDD. Presumably he's
connected that disk to an appropriate SATA connector on his motherboard.
He's indicated he disconnected (I assume that's what he means by
"unplugged") the old 180 GB HDD following the disk-cloning operation. So if
the disk-cloning operation was successful (obviously it wasn't), the system
should boot to the new SATA HDD. It would be wise, of course, to check the
BIOS to ensure the boot priority order does indicate a first boot to the new
500 GB HDD following a disk-cloning operation. In most instances that will
automatically occur as long as no other HDD is connected, but sometimes it's
necessary for a user to manually change the appropriate setting because the
system will balk upon bootup.

Michael:
It would seem something went awry during the Seagate DiscWizard disk-cloning
operation since you can't boot directly to your 500 GB SATA HDD with the old
180 GB HDD. That's right, isn't it?

So can we assume that if at this point you connect your old 180 GB HDD, with
the 500 GB HDD disconnected, the system will properly boot & function. (And
you've ensured the BIOS boot priority order indicates a first boot to that
180 GB HDD, right?) And that 180 GB HDD will have a drive assignment letter
of C:. That's right, isn't it?

If all the above are correct assumptions why don't you take "Big Al's"
previous advice and download/install a trial version of the Acronis True
Image program (http://www.acronis.com) to perform the disk cloning
operation? And do remember, as you previously did, that following the
disk-cloning operation you disconnect the old HDD *before* booting to the
new HDD. And that the boot priority order indicates a first boot to the 500
GB HDD.

Who knows? You might even want to purchase a copy of the Acronis program and
use it as a comprehensive backup program now that you have two hard drives.
We prefer the Casper disk-cloning program (http://www.fssdev.com) but the
Acronis program should suit you admirably.
Anna

 

[Michael W. Ryder]

I bought a new 500 gig Seagate SATA drive to replace my aging 200 gig
drive. I used the DiscWizard to clone the drive (I thought). The
original drive had two partitions, one containing the HP recovery
stuff. I unplugged the old drive after the process, and the computer
would not boot. I plugged it back in to attempt a repair of some kind,
and it booted fine. In disk Management, it shows G: (the new drive) as
healthy system, and the C: drive (the old one) as pagefile. I decided
to just try the whole operation over again, and the Discwizard won't
let me reclone to the new drive, the option is greyed out. The
original plan was to replace the old drive and use it as storage.
Where did I go wrong? How can I fix this? Thanks ahead of time.

When you say it won't boot with the new drive do you mean it will not
boot Windows or not start at all? The last time I cloned a system
drive, using Ghost, I had to start the system in Safe Mode and then
reboot. After that the drive worked perfectly.

 

[m32]

"Big Al":
Note the OP indicates his new 500 GB HDD is a SATA HDD. Presumably he's
connected that disk to an appropriate SATA connector on his motherboard.
He's indicated he disconnected (I assume that's what he means by
"unplugged") the old 180 GB HDD following the disk-cloning operation. So if
the disk-cloning operation was successful (obviously it wasn't), the system
should boot to the new SATA HDD. It would be wise, of course, to check the
BIOS to ensure the boot priority order does indicate a first boot to the new
500 GB HDD following a disk-cloning operation. In most instances that will
automatically occur as long as no other HDD is connected, but sometimes it's
necessary for a user to manually change the appropriate setting because the
system will balk upon bootup.

Michael:
It would seem something went awry during the Seagate DiscWizard disk-cloning
operation since you can't boot directly to your 500 GB SATA HDD with the old
180 GB HDD. That's right, isn't it?

So can we assume that if at this point you connect your old 180 GB HDD, with
the 500 GB HDD disconnected, the system will properly boot & function. (And
you've ensured the BIOS boot priority order indicates a first boot to that
180 GB HDD, right?) And that 180 GB HDD will have a drive assignment letter
of C:. That's right, isn't it?

If all the above are correct assumptions why don't you take "Big Al's"
previous advice and download/install a trial version of the Acronis True
Image program (http://www.acronis.com) to perform the disk cloning
operation? And do remember, as you previously did, that following the
disk-cloning operation you disconnect the old HDD *before* booting to the
new HDD. And that the boot priority order indicates a first boot to the 500
GB HDD.

Who knows? You might even want to purchase a copy of the Acronis program and
use it as a comprehensive backup program now that you have two hard drives.
We prefer the Casper disk-cloning program (http://www.fssdev.com) but the
Acronis program should suit you admirably.
Anna

Worked like a charm, Anna and Al, I appreciate it. Acronis had no
problem at all. Any tips for when I return the old drive to the case
and use it as extra storage? I suppose I should double check the bios,
and make sure it boots from the new disk, but will there be a problem
- like seeing both disks as the C: drive? Thanks!

 

[Anna]

Worked like a charm, Anna and Al, I appreciate it. Acronis had no
problem at all. Any tips for when I return the old drive to the case
and use it as extra storage? I suppose I should double check the bios,
and make sure it boots from the new disk, but will there be a problem
- like seeing both disks as the C: drive? Thanks!

Michael:
I assume that when you say "when I return the old drive to the case and use
it as extra storage", you're referring to using the 180 GB HDD as a
secondary *internal* HDD and not as a USB *external* HDD. If so, it's always
wise to initially check the BIOS boot priority setting to ensure that the
500 GB HDD will be first in boot priority order before the 180 GB HDD. If
you're planning to use that latter drive strictly as a secondary non-booting
HDD for add'l storage there's no need to continually check the BIOS for boot
priority order.

However, if you use the Acronis disk-cloning program for routine backup
operations so that the 180 GB HDD (as the recipient of the clone) is
potentially bootable following the disk-cloning operation, it's a wise
precaution to disconnect the newly-cloned drive following the disk-cloning
operation and boot directly to your usual boot drive, i.e., the 500 GB HDD.
Then reconnect the 180 GB HDD when next you undertake a disk-cloning
operation. The preceding is unnecessary if the secondary HDD is being used
as a USB external HDD or if you're using the Casper disk-cloning program;
it's one of Casper's other advantages over Acronis in our view.
Anna

 

[Bill in Co.]

Michael:
I assume that when you say "when I return the old drive to the case and
use
it as extra storage", you're referring to using the 180 GB HDD as a
secondary *internal* HDD and not as a USB *external* HDD. If so, it's
always
wise to initially check the BIOS boot priority setting to ensure that the
500 GB HDD will be first in boot priority order before the 180 GB HDD. If
you're planning to use that latter drive strictly as a secondary
non-booting
HDD for add'l storage there's no need to continually check the BIOS for
boot
priority order.

However, if you use the Acronis disk-cloning program for routine backup
operations so that the 180 GB HDD (as the recipient of the clone) is
potentially bootable following the disk-cloning operation, it's a wise
precaution to disconnect the newly-cloned drive following the disk-cloning
operation and boot directly to your usual boot drive, i.e., the 500 GB
HDD.
Then reconnect the 180 GB HDD when next you undertake a disk-cloning
operation.

Well, that's a bit of a pain!

The preceding is unnecessary if the secondary HDD is being used
as a USB external HDD or if you're using the Casper disk-cloning program;
it's one of Casper's other advantages over Acronis in our view.
Anna

Somewhat relatedly....
Is it possible to use Casper (or TI) to store partition backups of the C:
system drive partition on the main hard drive *AND* have (at least read
only) access to the files there, via windows explorer?

As I recall, at least with True Image, you cannot do that (have full
access - it's stored in a special "Secure Zone" if you're storing the system
backups on the same drive, and windows explorer won't work there, or allow
you see what is in there, *unlike* if it's stored on an external backup
drive).

The reason I ask is it sure would be nice to make use of the extra space
I've got left on my HD, instead of filling up the much smaller external one
with my system backups all the time.

 

[Big_Al]

Michael:
I assume that when you say "when I return the old drive to the case and use
it as extra storage", you're referring to using the 180 GB HDD as a
secondary *internal* HDD and not as a USB *external* HDD. If so, it's always
wise to initially check the BIOS boot priority setting to ensure that the
500 GB HDD will be first in boot priority order before the 180 GB HDD. If
you're planning to use that latter drive strictly as a secondary non-booting
HDD for add'l storage there's no need to continually check the BIOS for boot
priority order.

However, if you use the Acronis disk-cloning program for routine backup
operations so that the 180 GB HDD (as the recipient of the clone) is
potentially bootable following the disk-cloning operation, it's a wise
precaution to disconnect the newly-cloned drive following the disk-cloning
operation and boot directly to your usual boot drive, i.e., the 500 GB HDD.
Then reconnect the 180 GB HDD when next you undertake a disk-cloning
operation. The preceding is unnecessary if the secondary HDD is being used
as a USB external HDD or if you're using the Casper disk-cloning program;
it's one of Casper's other advantages over Acronis in our view.
Anna

Thanks Anna for following up with Michael. I'm glad he's working now.

 

[Anna]

(SNIP)

Well, that's a bit of a pain!

Bill:
True, it is a "pain", but not so with Casper where that problem simply
doesn't exist. The problem (or potential problem) we and others have found
with disk-cloning programs in general is this...

Should the user boot with both drives connected immediately following the
disk-cloning operation, the system *will* boot to their source HDD,
presumably the C: drive. But subsequently when the user attempts to later
boot with *only* the destination HDD connected - let's say for restoration
purposes - there's a strong possibility the system will not boot with *only*
that HDD connected.

This is the more-or-less typical situation where the user clones the
contents of his/her source HDD to another *internal* HDD. Following the
disk-cloning operation the user boots to his/her source HDD with the cloned
HDD still connected. At a later date when the user desires to restore
his/her system from the cloned HDD because the source HDD has become
defective or the OS has become corrupt & dysfunctional, the user finds that
the system will not boot What happens with some frequency is that when both
HDDs are connected *immediately* following the disk-cloning operation and
the user boots the system, a drive letter other than C: is assigned to the
destination HDD. This other-than-C: drive letter remains permanently
assigned to the destination HDD. So that if later the user attempts to boot
to that HDD that is solely connected to the system, it will not boot since
the XP OS will not see it as the boot drive. (A number of commentators have
indicated a registry modification can be employed to correct this problem,
i.e., assign a C: drive letter to the HDD, but we have not found this a
workable solution).

Interestingly, if the user disconnects the source HDD immediately following
the disk-cloning operation and makes that initial boot *only* with the
destination HDD connected, there will be no subsequent problems booting to
that HDD even if later the user boots the system to their source HDD while
the destination HDD is also connected. Alternatively, the user can
disconnect the cloned HDD from the system and boot only with the source HDD
connected. I realize that the latter is probably not the most desirable way
to go since it doesn't give the user definitive infomation that the clone
"took". So all in all it would probably be better if the user disconnects
the source HDD immediately following the disk-cloning operation and boot
directly to the newly-cloned disk.

The reason I’ve stated that the above is a “potential problem” is that the
scenario I’ve described doesn't always happen. In many cases it simply
doesn't matter whether *both* source & destination HDDs are connected
immediately following the disk-cloning operation. In those cases the
destination HDD will later boot without any problem. But it's something of a
crap-shoot and that's why I generally recommend booting *only* to the
destination HDD (the recipient of the clone) immediately following the
disk-cloning operation (or disconnecting the newly-cloned HDD from the
system). Symantec & Acronis also recommended this procedure in the past. I
don't know if the Acronis v11 program has changed things.

As I've indicated, this problem or potential problem doesn't exist with the
Casper disk-cloning program. At least we've never run into it involving
hundreds of disk-cloning operations with both internal HDDs connected
following the disk-cloning operation. We've *always* found that the
"destination" (cloned) HDD will later boot without any problem. It's another
reason we prefer Casper over the other disk-cloning programs.

(Note the problem described above does not exist when using a USB or
Firewire external hard drive as the recipient of the clone since those
devices are not bootable. Using an external HDD as the destination drive
avoids the need for the disconnect/connect scenario described above. And
there is, of course, another advantage to using a USB or Firewire external
HDD as the destination drive (rather than another internal HDD) in that an
additional safety factor is provided since the external drive will
ordinarily be disconnected from the system except during disk-cloning
operations. Restoration of the system can be achieved by cloning the
contents of the system residing on the external HDD to a internal HDD
through the normal disk-cloning process.)
Anna

Somewhat relatedly....
Is it possible to use Casper (or TI) to store partition backups of the C:
system drive partition on the main hard drive *AND* have (at least read
only) access to the files there, via windows explorer?

As I recall, at least with True Image, you cannot do that (have full
access - it's stored in a special "Secure Zone" if you're storing the
system backups on the same drive, and windows explorer won't work there,
or allow you see what is in there, *unlike* if it's stored on an external
backup drive).

The reason I ask is it sure would be nice to make use of the extra space
I've got left on my HD, instead of filling up the much smaller external
one with my system backups all the time.

Bill:
I may be misunderstanding your question, but let me respond this way...

As I'm sure you know based upon our previous exchange of posts concerning
various aspects of the Casper (and Acronis) program, Casper can clone
individual partitions as well as create complete disk-to-disk clones. So, in
your example, should the user desire to clone *only* the contents of their
source drive's C: partition to this or that partition on the "destination"
HDD, and *not* clone any other partition(s) on their source HDD, he or she
can do that. Since the resulting cloned contents of that partition now
residing on the destination HDD are a precise copy of the contents of the
source drive's C: partition, then naturally those contents (files/folders,
etc.) can be accessed via Windows Explorer. But I'm reasonably sure you
already know this so that's why I'm uncertain I truly understand your
question.
Anna

 

[Bill in Co.]

(SNIP)


Bill:
True, it is a "pain", but not so with Casper where that problem simply
doesn't exist. The problem (or potential problem) we and others have found
with disk-cloning programs in general is this...

Should the user boot with both drives connected immediately following the
disk-cloning operation, the system *will* boot to their source HDD,
presumably the C: drive. But subsequently when the user attempts to later
boot with *only* the destination HDD connected - let's say for restoration
purposes - there's a strong possibility the system will not boot with
*only*
that HDD connected.

This is the more-or-less typical situation where the user clones the
contents of his/her source HDD to another *internal* HDD. Following the
disk-cloning operation the user boots to his/her source HDD with the
cloned
HDD still connected. At a later date when the user desires to restore
his/her system from the cloned HDD because the source HDD has become
defective or the OS has become corrupt & dysfunctional, the user finds
that
the system will not boot What happens with some frequency is that when
both
HDDs are connected *immediately* following the disk-cloning operation and
the user boots the system, a drive letter other than C: is assigned to the
destination HDD. This other-than-C: drive letter remains permanently
assigned to the destination HDD. So that if later the user attempts to
boot
to that HDD that is solely connected to the system, it will not boot since
the XP OS will not see it as the boot drive. (A number of commentators
have
indicated a registry modification can be employed to correct this problem,
i.e., assign a C: drive letter to the HDD, but we have not found this a
workable solution).

Interestingly, if the user disconnects the source HDD immediately
following
the disk-cloning operation and makes that initial boot *only* with the
destination HDD connected, there will be no subsequent problems booting to
that HDD even if later the user boots the system to their source HDD while
the destination HDD is also connected. Alternatively, the user can
disconnect the cloned HDD from the system and boot only with the source
HDD
connected. I realize that the latter is probably not the most desirable
way
to go since it doesn't give the user definitive infomation that the clone
"took". So all in all it would probably be better if the user disconnects
the source HDD immediately following the disk-cloning operation and boot
directly to the newly-cloned disk.

The reason I've stated that the above is a "potential problem" is that the
scenario I've described doesn't always happen. In many cases it simply
doesn't matter whether *both* source & destination HDDs are connected
immediately following the disk-cloning operation. In those cases the
destination HDD will later boot without any problem. But it's something of
a
crap-shoot and that's why I generally recommend booting *only* to the
destination HDD (the recipient of the clone) immediately following the
disk-cloning operation (or disconnecting the newly-cloned HDD from the
system). Symantec & Acronis also recommended this procedure in the past. I
don't know if the Acronis v11 program has changed things.

As I've indicated, this problem or potential problem doesn't exist with
the
Casper disk-cloning program. At least we've never run into it involving
hundreds of disk-cloning operations with both internal HDDs connected
following the disk-cloning operation. We've *always* found that the
"destination" (cloned) HDD will later boot without any problem. It's
another
reason we prefer Casper over the other disk-cloning programs.

(Note the problem described above does not exist when using a USB or
Firewire external hard drive as the recipient of the clone since those
devices are not bootable. Using an external HDD as the destination drive
avoids the need for the disconnect/connect scenario described above. And
there is, of course, another advantage to using a USB or Firewire external
HDD as the destination drive (rather than another internal HDD) in that an
additional safety factor is provided since the external drive will
ordinarily be disconnected from the system except during disk-cloning
operations. Restoration of the system can be achieved by cloning the
contents of the system residing on the external HDD to a internal HDD
through the normal disk-cloning process.)
Anna




Bill:
I may be misunderstanding your question, but let me respond this way...

As I'm sure you know based upon our previous exchange of posts concerning
various aspects of the Casper (and Acronis) program, Casper can clone
individual partitions as well as create complete disk-to-disk clones. So,
in
your example, should the user desire to clone *only* the contents of their
source drive's C: partition to this or that partition on the
"destination"
HDD, and *not* clone any other partition(s) on their source HDD, he or she
can do that. Since the resulting cloned contents of that partition now
residing on the destination HDD are a precise copy of the contents of the
source drive's C: partition, then naturally those contents (files/folders,
etc.) can be accessed via Windows Explorer. But I'm reasonably sure you
already know this so that's why I'm uncertain I truly understand your
question.
Anna

No, I was talking about the case of just having one internal hard drive AND
trying to use it to store some additional backups of the C: partition, but
tucked away somewhere (within another partition on the main drive).

The advantage being: IF you wanted to test out some programs and found you
didn't like what it did, you could simply restore a backup *from the same
drive*, and yet STILL have some access to the files in those backups (at
least being able to see them in Windows Explorer).

As I mentioned, if you use Acronis True Image to do this (i.e., store image
backups on the same drive as your system drive), you HAVE to use a hidden
"Secure Zone" partition to store them, and then apparently you can NOT have
any access to their contents using windows explorer, nor can you view all
the files within it (unlike if you use an external hard drive)

This does NOT apply, of course, if you use an external backup drive, as I
have been doing. But I sure have a LOT of wasted empty space on my main
drive that could be put to better use by doing this, by "off loading" some
of the burden of using my external drive backups for tests (but of course,
having an external backup drive is best).

 

[Anna]

No, I was talking about the case of just having one internal hard drive
AND trying to use it to store some additional backups of the C: partition,
but tucked away somewhere (within another partition on the main drive).

The advantage being: IF you wanted to test out some programs and found
you didn't like what it did, you could simply restore a backup *from the
same drive*, and yet STILL have some access to the files in those backups
(at least being able to see them in Windows Explorer).

As I mentioned, if you use Acronis True Image to do this (i.e., store
image backups on the same drive as your system drive), you HAVE to use a
hidden "Secure Zone" partition to store them, and then apparently you can
NOT have any access to their contents using windows explorer, nor can you
view all the files within it (unlike if you use an external hard drive)

This does NOT apply, of course, if you use an external backup drive, as I
have been doing. But I sure have a LOT of wasted empty space on my
main drive that could be put to better use by doing this, by "off loading"
some of the burden of using my external drive backups for tests (but of
course, having an external backup drive is best).

Bill:
Yes, now I understand your question. Yes, Casper does have the capability
you're seeking. It can clone the contents of a partition on the "source"
HDD to another partition on the *same* source HDD. Obviously the "recipient"
partition would need to be large enough to contain those cloned contents.
And
those cloned contents would be accessible via Windows Explorer, etc. just
like
any other contents residing on the HDD.

Like you, we test out many different programs, however we prefer to install
these programs on a separate HDD, not on our day-to-day working HDD. The
problem (as we see it) in installing these new, untested programs on one's
boot HDD is that more often than not we find these programs unsatisfactory
for one reason or another (as I'm reasonably sure you've experienced the
same thing), and even when they're subsequently uninstalled they frequently
leave behind unwanted "debris" cluttering up the registry as well as other
areas of one's PC. Then too, some of these programs cause mischief of one
kind or another while they're in use even to the point of creating a
dysfunctional HDD. So one of the significant advantages of using a
disk-cloning program is that one can "play around" with another (cloned)
HDD, secure in the knowledge that their day-to-day HDD will not be adversely
affected by any problem brought about by installing & using this or that new
program. The recent problems many users have experienced re installing SP3
is an illustration of the advantage of installing a major program on one's
cloned (physically separated) HDD. (It's also another major reason why we
promote
the use of removable hard drives for desktop PCs whenever possible).
Anna

 

[Bill in Co.]

And I did some major editing too (trimming) - hope that helps.

Bill:
Yes, now I understand your question. Yes, Casper does have the capability
you're seeking. It can clone the contents of a partition on the "source"
HDD to another partition on the *same* source HDD. Obviously the
"recipient"
partition would need to be large enough to contain those cloned contents.
And those cloned contents would be accessible via Windows Explorer, etc.
just
like any other contents residing on the HDD.

But how come there is no potential problem booting up, since if those
partition (clone) copies are truly partition copies of the C: system boot
partition, they would all have their Active bit set, wouldn't they?

OR maybe the program is smart enough to mark them all as inactive UNTIL and
IF one of them is used to "reclone back to" (i.e., overwrite) the original
main C: system boot partition.

And I assume the computer would need to automatically reboot near the end of
the "recloning back" process, and drop down into some Unix like op system
(i.e. without Windows), to allow this to happen. (That happens with
Acronis True Image as it finishes up, when it's restoring the C: partition
from a backup image - it has to do that outside of windows).

Like you, we test out many different programs, however we prefer to
install
these programs on a separate HDD, not on our day-to-day working HDD. The
problem (as we see it) in installing these new, untested programs on one's
boot HDD is that more often than not we find these programs unsatisfactory
for one reason or another (as I'm reasonably sure you've experienced the
same thing), and even when they're subsequently uninstalled they
frequently
leave behind unwanted "debris" cluttering up the registry as well as other
areas of one's PC.

Yup. Exactly.

Then too, some of these programs cause mischief of one
kind or another while they're in use even to the point of creating a
dysfunctional HDD.

Fortunately that hasn't happened to me, at least not recently.

So one of the significant advantages of using a
disk-cloning program is that one can "play around" with another (cloned)
HDD, secure in the knowledge that their day-to-day HDD will not be
adversely
affected by any problem brought about by installing & using this or that
new
program. The recent problems many users have experienced re installing SP3
is an illustration of the advantage of installing a major program on one's
cloned (physically separated) HDD.

Yes, of course that is better. (And I always keep a good and recent system
backup on my external USB enclosure drive)

(It's also another major reason why we
promote the use of removable hard drives for desktop PCs whenever
possible).
Anna

Right. I just don't have another drive to use for backups for these tests
of mine, except for that smaller external USB drive (80 GB).

I've got one large 250 GB SATA internal drive in my Dell, and a LOT of it is
still unused, and I want to use it for these tests (while still keeping a
safe backup on my external drive).

But as I said, I don't think I'd have full access to the files (or be able
to view them) using True Image, since they're all tucked away in that
normally hidden Secure Zone, and, as I understand it, you can't access it in
windows explorer or any explorer like interface. They are probably all
named with simple names like backup1, backup2, backup3, and that's all you
get to see.

I might have to reconsider using Casper, IF it will allow me full access and
to do what I want it to do.

I assume if I did use Casper, it would allow me to create a separate
partition on the main HD to store each and all of these clones of the C:
boot system partition - is that right? Let's say it creates a new E:
partition, to hold them all. Then:

So (in explorer) you'd see a new partition E: containing all the clones you
made contained within that E: partition, somehow separately identified, but
all within that same E: partition. Is that right? And NOT a bunch of
new partitions like F:, G:, H:, etc, for each clone backup you had made of
your C: system boot partition. Or is that the way it works?

 

[Anna]

But how come there is no potential problem booting up, since if those
partition (clone) copies are truly partition copies of the C: system boot
partition, they would all have their Active bit set, wouldn't they?

OR maybe the program is smart enough to mark them all as inactive UNTIL
and IF one of them is used to "reclone back to" (i.e., overwrite) the
original main C: system boot partition.

And I assume the computer would need to automatically reboot near the end
of the "recloning back" process, and drop down into some Unix like op
system (i.e. without Windows), to allow this to happen. (That happens
with Acronis True Image as it finishes up, when it's restoring the C:
partition from a backup image - it has to do that outside of windows).


Fortunately that hasn't happened to me, at least not recently.


course that is better. (And I always keep a good and recent system backup
on my external USB enclosure drive)

Right. I just don't have another drive to use for backups for these tests
of mine, except for that smaller external USB drive (80 GB).

I've got one large 250 GB SATA internal drive in my Dell, and a LOT of it
is still unused, and I want to use it for these tests (while still keeping
a safe backup on my external drive).

But as I said, I don't think I'd have full access to the files (or be able
to view them) using True Image, since they're all tucked away in that
normally hidden Secure Zone, and, as I understand it, you can't access it
in windows explorer or any explorer like interface. They are probably
all named with simple names like backup1, backup2, backup3, and that's all
you get to see.

I might have to reconsider using Casper, IF it will allow me full access
and to do what I want it to do.

I assume if I did use Casper, it would allow me to create a separate
partition on the main HD to store each and all of these clones of the C:
boot system partition - is that right? Let's say it creates a new E:
partition, to hold them all. Then:

So (in explorer) you'd see a new partition E: containing all the clones
you made contained within that E: partition, somehow separately
identified, but all within that same E: partition. Is that right? And
NOT a bunch of new partitions like F:, G:, H:, etc, for each clone backup
you had made of your C: system boot partition. Or is that the way it
works?

Bill:
Using your 250 GB HDD as an example and given your objective...

Let's say you multi-partiton that drive in order create another partition
that will serve to hold the contents of your C: drive partition.

So now you clone the contents of that C: drive partition to the
newly-created partition. That latter partition will obviously be assigned a
drive letter other than C:.

Should you subsequently clone the contents of your C: drive partition to
that partition that currently contains the previous C: drive partition
clone, then the contents of that partition will simply be overwritten with
the new cloned contents.

If you wanted to maintain "generational" copies of your C: drive partition
then obviously you would have to create additional partitions to hold these
additional clones. Again, these additional partitions (if any) would be
assigned
consecutive drive letters, not a C: drive letter assignment. They would be
treated like any other partition residing on the HDD.

However, and I'm supposing this may be the crux of your objective, you could
*not*, via the disk-cloning process, use the contents of any partition to
restore
your drive's C: partition even if those contents contained the contents of
your
drive's C: partition. Casper would not allow this "reverse" cloning process
to
take place on the *same* physical disk.

Bill, wouldn't it be more straightforward and a lot simpler to just install
another internal HDD in your system? Then just clone the contents of your
day-to-day working HDD to the secondary internal HDD and "play
around" with the secondary HDD testing new programs, new configurations,
etc., etc? It's the way most of us do things in this area.

I realize that for notebook/laptop users the above is ordinarily not a
viable
solution, but at the least in that situation a user could use a USB or
Firewire
or SATA external HDD as the recipient of the clone and work with their
day-to-day internal HDD testing out new programs, new configurations, etc.
So if things went awry, they could easily restore their system by cloning
the
contents of their external HDD back to their internal HDD.
Anna

 

[Bill in Co.]

Bill:
Using your 250 GB HDD as an example and given your objective...

Let's say you multi-partition that drive in order create another partition
that will serve to hold the contents of your C: drive partition.

So now you clone the contents of that C: drive partition to the
newly-created partition. That latter partition will obviously be assigned
a
drive letter other than C:.

Should you subsequently clone the contents of your C: drive partition to
that partition that currently contains the previous C: drive partition
clone, then the contents of that partition will simply be overwritten with
the new cloned contents.

If you wanted to maintain "generational" copies of your C: drive partition
then obviously you would have to create additional partitions to hold
these
additional clones. Again, these additional partitions (if any) would be
assigned
consecutive drive letters, not a C: drive letter assignment. They would be
treated like any other partition residing on the HDD.

OK. But I really don't want that (a whole bunch of new drive letter
partitions), but more below (on an even less desireable problem with doing
this).

However, and I'm supposing this may be the crux of your objective, you
could
*not*, via the disk-cloning process, use the contents of any partition to
restore
your drive's C: partition even if those contents contained the contents of
your
drive's C: partition. Casper would not allow this "reverse" cloning
process
to take place on the *same* physical disk.

OK. Then THAT really kills it for me. So yes, you understood what I
want.

Bill, wouldn't it be more straightforward and a lot simpler to just
install
another internal HDD in your system? Then just clone the contents of your
day-to-day working HDD to the secondary internal HDD and "play
around" with the secondary HDD testing new programs, new configurations,
etc., etc? It's the way most of us do things in this area.

Maybe. I'm not sure yet.

EXCEPT that if I literally did what you wrote above, I couldn't be using the
secondary drive to play around with this stuff, UNLESS you mean that I
choose to boot up to the secondary drive (selected in BIOS) whenever I
wanted to play around, and if I liked what I saw, then reclone or reimage
that secondary drive's partition back to the main drive's partition, and
then just boot up on the main drive.

I realize that for notebook/laptop users the above is ordinarily not a
viable
solution, but at the least in that situation a user could use a USB or
Firewire
or SATA external HDD as the recipient of the clone and work with their
day-to-day internal HDD testing out new programs, new configurations, etc.
So if things went awry, they could easily restore their system by cloning
the contents of their external HDD back to their internal HDD.
Anna

And I'm kinda doing something like that already, by using my external USB
enclosure drive to store my backup images. (not to be confused with the
previous paragraph, which seemed to be addressing something else)