Removing old drivers easily

B

Bob

How do you remove old drivers easily?

The only way I know is to go to Add/Remove Hardware, check the box
about old drivers and go thru them one by one, which is somewhat
haphazard because you don't know which one is current and which is
old.

There's gotta be an easier way to get rid of old drivers.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in English, thank an American soldier.
 
P

philo

Bob said:
How do you remove old drivers easily?

The only way I know is to go to Add/Remove Hardware, check the box
about old drivers and go thru them one by one, which is somewhat
haphazard because you don't know which one is current and which is
old.

There's gotta be an easier way to get rid of old drivers.
your devices can only have one driver installed at a time...
so if all is working...best to leave it alone.

if you have problems with the drivers for any specific device...
then you may uninstall that device only...
reboot and install the new drivers
 
B

Bob

your devices can only have one driver installed at a time...
so if all is working...best to leave it alone.

I do not want to remove drivers that are current.
if you have problems with the drivers for any specific device...
then you may uninstall that device only...
reboot and install the new drivers

I want to know how to do that easily.

I have accumulated a bunch of old drivers from over 6 years of use.
Many of them I will never use again. I don't want them around
contaminating my system. They are useless so I want to get rid of
them.

How do I do that easily?



--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in English, thank an American soldier.
 
S

Shep©

I do not want to remove drivers that are current.


I want to know how to do that easily.

I have accumulated a bunch of old drivers from over 6 years of use.
Many of them I will never use again. I don't want them around
contaminating my system. They are useless so I want to get rid of
them.

How do I do that easily?

You remove them all and re-boot.Windows should re-install the most
current.Win95/98 back the registry 1st.

Winme/XP make a restore point and the remove and re-boot.
HTH :)
 
K

kony

I am running Win2K. What's going to happen there?

Windows assigns one driver *definition* as active per
device. It will also keep track of other drivers it knows
about or that you used. You don't actually gain anything by
disassociating the old drivers, as it does not change what
driver/files the system uses as it's current driver per that
device. AFAIK, it doesn't even delete any files.

The quicker way of getting rid of old junk is to boot into
safe mode, use Device Manager to show hidden devices, and
delete any duplicates. Beyond that you should be done.

If you have other driver issues you might try reinstalling
the (newest or preferred) driver. In some cases (like ATI's
crap software) the installer or uninstaller will bomb out
and left things like multimedia codecs installedd for
non-existant devices. In such cases there are ATI (nVidia
too) driver removal tools, not from the hardware
manufacturer but Googling should find them... they simply
get rid of ALL things related to the software/driver/etc so
you'd be back to a clean slate and need to install at least
one driver for any harware still present.
 
B

Bob

The quicker way of getting rid of old junk is to boot into
safe mode, use Device Manager to show hidden devices, and
delete any duplicates.

How do you get Device Manager to show hidden devices?
If you have other driver issues you might try reinstalling
the (newest or preferred) driver.

The problem I ran into briefly was I had a corrupted boot disk and
when I tried to add another HD the system reported it as a ZIP disk. I
do not have any ZIP disks anymore - I had one before. So I assumed
that the OS screwed up and assigned the ZIP disk driver. If I had
gotten rid of it, that screwup would not have happened.
 
K

kony

How do you get Device Manager to show hidden devices?

"View"-> Show Hidden Devices
The problem I ran into briefly was I had a corrupted boot disk and
when I tried to add another HD the system reported it as a ZIP disk. I
do not have any ZIP disks anymore - I had one before. So I assumed
that the OS screwed up and assigned the ZIP disk driver. If I had
gotten rid of it, that screwup would not have happened.

....no idea if that was the cause or if it would've called it
a ZIP regardless of having had one previously.
 
B

Bob

"View"-> Show Hidden Devices

Sorry, that's not what I meant. I shoudl have said, how do you know if
a device is hidden once you have shown hidden devices? IOW, I get this
long list of devices, some of which are active now, and many which can
be safely removed.

For example, I spotted one called Tiny Firewall. I haven't run Tiny in
years, so I removed it. Now Kerio Firewall won't run (Kerio was the
original author of Tiny Personal Firewall and one of the drivers is
still named that even though Tiny and Kerio split up). On top of that
I can't get it to reinstall. Thank God I had a disk clone I made
earlier this morning so I could recover (I am using Ebermax 352
RAID-1/Backup unit in Backup mode. It makes an automatic disk copy at
4:00 am each morning, so all I have to do is switch two removable disk
trays around and I am back on the air).

How does one know if it is safe to remove a driver?
...no idea if that was the cause or if it would've called it
a ZIP regardless of having had one previously.

The disk system was so screwed up that anything was possible. I just
wanted to get every remnant of Iomega Zip out of there. I think I have
finally done it.
 
K

kony

Sorry, that's not what I meant. I shoudl have said, how do you know if
a device is hidden once you have shown hidden devices?

Not sure if i understand the question- you'd know because it
did't show up before you choose ti "show hidden devices".

Generally you should not delete anything without cause,ie-
there is a functionality problem.

IOW, I get this
long list of devices, some of which are active now, and many which can
be safely removed.

For example, I spotted one called Tiny Firewall. I haven't run Tiny in
years, so I removed it. Now Kerio Firewall won't run (Kerio was the
original author of Tiny Personal Firewall and one of the drivers is
still named that even though Tiny and Kerio split up).

I would guess it did remove a file common to both- a problem
with the whole windows software model, in what it allows.
Regardless, it should be a trivial thing to just reinstall
the currently (needed) product again. Inevitably that will
happen, to remove all you want to, you may end up removing
too much and then those things have to be reinstalled,
whether automatically or manually. Goes to the point that
it's often best to leave a working system, alone, or only do
what seems manditory.

On top of that
I can't get it to reinstall.

That's odd, what happens?
It would seem as though their installer has a few flaws
then.

Thank God I had a disk clone I made
earlier this morning so I could recover (I am using Ebermax 352
RAID-1/Backup unit in Backup mode. It makes an automatic disk copy at
4:00 am each morning, so all I have to do is switch two removable disk
trays around and I am back on the air).

How does one know if it is safe to remove a driver?

You have to determine if (something) still uses it or any of
it's files. Generally you can look for registry entries and
selectively remove them, retaining a .reg file to merge back
if necessary, or disable some services (ONLY if you know for
sure system doesn't need that to run).

Generally it's best to just leave it alone unless you know
specifically what you need to do and what impact it may
have... and for the rest of the time, have the backup as you
did.
 
B

Bob

Not sure if i understand the question- you'd know because it
did't show up before you choose ti "show hidden devices".

Yeah, I know - that's what makes it so difficult.

There are too many drivers to keep track visually of those which were
there before showing hidden ones. It sure would be nice if MS would
tag the hidden ones so I could tell they are no longer in use. I
suppose I could take screenshots of before and after using View
Hidden, but that's so "Legacy".
Generally you should not delete anything without cause,ie-
there is a functionality problem.

Why not? I installed NT4 back in 1997 and used In-Place Upgrade to
install Win2K. I now have it on completely different hardware. Not
even the floppy is the same. So I have all this crap in there that
goes back 8 years. The other day one of those old drivers got
installed for a hard disk - admittedly because the disk was messed up.
Nevertheless, if that old driver had been removed, maybe Win2K could
have done a better job.

I don't like crap on me - that's why I bathe. The same is true of my
computer - it needs a bath, or maybe an enema.
I would guess it did remove a file common to both- a problem
with the whole windows software model, in what it allows.
Regardless, it should be a trivial thing to just reinstall
the currently (needed) product again.

I did reinstall the product but it did not reinstall the driver. So I
just used the backup as my boot disk.
That's odd, what happens?
It would seem as though their installer has a few flaws
then.

The same error appeared at startup.
 
K

kony


Because there is no gain under normal circumstances and when
the circumstances are abnormal, it would seem you have a
specific goal and task rather than a blanket task of
"deleting ****** several things.
I installed NT4 back in 1997 and used In-Place Upgrade to
install Win2K. I now have it on completely different hardware. Not
even the floppy is the same. So I have all this crap in there that
goes back 8 years.

Ah well I didn't understand the scenario then, most people
are not running an 8 year old install that was also
upgraded. I would suggest a clean install of the operating
system with SP4 slipstreamed into it beforehand.

The other day one of those old drivers got
installed for a hard disk - admittedly because the disk was messed up.
Nevertheless, if that old driver had been removed, maybe Win2K could
have done a better job.

I don't like crap on me - that's why I bathe. The same is true of my
computer - it needs a bath, or maybe an enema.

Ok, though I'm not so sure it's a relevant analogy though
since some remnants are only a registry line and deleting it
is of little difference... kinda like going to extra effort
to pick one grain of sand off your foot while walking on the
beach.

I did reinstall the product but it did not reinstall the driver. So I
just used the backup as my boot disk.



The same error appeared at startup.

I would seriously consider the clean install with most
current drivers. The system will be cleaner, leaner,
possibly faster running due to more compactness of the files
on the drive, and should make backups smaller too. If you
got by this long on a NT4 upgrade you might make it another
decade with a clean 2KSP4 install.
 
S

Shep©

B

Bob

I would suggest a clean install of the operating
system with SP4 slipstreamed into it beforehand.

I do not have the time or patience to do that, especially if I can
clean up my existing install.
Ok, though I'm not so sure it's a relevant analogy though
since some remnants are only a registry line and deleting it
is of little difference... kinda like going to extra effort
to pick one grain of sand off your foot while walking on the
beach.

If the OS had not mistakenly loaded the wrong disk driver I would have
never even thought about it. It's more than just a grain of sand.

But I get the point - if I can get rid of the obvious stuff then I
have accomplished my task. I guess I will have to print a screenshot
of before and after View Hidden to tell which are active and which are
not.
I would seriously consider the clean install with most
current drivers. The system will be cleaner,

I run three different Registry cleaners plus the old RegClean from MS.

I have removed just about everything from the old systems.
possibly faster running due to more compactness of the files
on the drive,

I defrag periodically.
and should make backups smaller too.

That may be true if I have a lot of old legacy stuff on disk. But I
ran the uninstaller for everything and it presumably cleans most of
that crap off.
If you
got by this long on a NT4 upgrade you might make it another
decade with a clean 2KSP4 install.

I simply have too much on here to give that any thought - for now
anyway. It is my understanding that when I migrate to XP Pro that the
business of migration is much different from the old In-Place Ungrade.

In the case of the IPU I cloned the old disk and used Win2K
installation to convert that disk to the new environment. I could see
it deleting old system files and replacing, so presumably there is no
leaness issue there.

However, as I understand it with XP Pro, I load the new OS onto the
new HD and use XP to copy only those files that are needed for the new
environment. Presumably all the old crap will not get copied. I don't
know if this is equivalent to a fresh rebuild or not. Maybe you all
can comment.
 
K

kony

I do not have the time or patience to do that, especially if I can
clean up my existing install.

Ok, just thought it worth mentioning as many people find it
prudent to do- for similar reasons as those you are now
addressing.

If the OS had not mistakenly loaded the wrong disk driver I would have
never even thought about it. It's more than just a grain of sand.

This once, yes, but the general concept of deleting all this
stuff is essentially picking off tiny bits from the whole
with no expectation it would make a difference except for
specific problematic devices- which was more-or-less my
point all along, to not change what doesn't require a
change.

But I get the point - if I can get rid of the obvious stuff then I
have accomplished my task. I guess I will have to print a screenshot
of before and after View Hidden to tell which are active and which are
not.

Still not so sure you "need" to get rid of any of that.
Another way to approach this is to look in the registry at
the [ENUM] keys, deleting that hardware which is no longer
in the system.



I run three different Registry cleaners plus the old RegClean from MS.

Ok, but I've observed that even after a clean install of the
OS, and one-time install of apps but NO uninstalls, these
cleaners still seem to want to "do" something, that
something being a cause for concern as there shouldn't be
anything to "clean" yet. I find them often more trouble
than they're worth, but admittedly I don't run 8 yr old
NT4-upgraded boxes so at this point you are the expert on
that scenario.

I have removed just about everything from the old systems.

I would be surprised if there isn't at least a few hundred
MB of stuff left on the drive, but again I'm not doing this
and dont' have the box to look at.


I defrag periodically.

That is good but with the files defragmented, they can still
be scattered around on the drive as whole files, moreso
after waves of software installation/uninstallation, then
it's a given that the upgraded OS files didn't get put on
the front of the drive since the NT4 files were there at the
time.


That may be true if I have a lot of old legacy stuff on disk. But I
ran the uninstaller for everything and it presumably cleans most of
that crap off.

Out of curiosity, what is the total size of your Winnt
folder? I don't remember the exact size right after a clean
install but believe it's well under 800MB.

I simply have too much on here to give that any thought - for now
anyway. It is my understanding that when I migrate to XP Pro that the
business of migration is much different from the old In-Place Ungrade.

In the case of the IPU I cloned the old disk and used Win2K
installation to convert that disk to the new environment. I could see
it deleting old system files and replacing, so presumably there is no
leaness issue there.

While that sounds good in principle, in practice many do
still find it beneficial to do the clean install, that it
does end up leaner. You'd have to do that yourself to know
wha the total difference is, if you're not wanting to then
forget I mentioned it as the proper operation is all that
counts in the end- if you're happy with it.

However, as I understand it with XP Pro, I load the new OS onto the
new HD and use XP to copy only those files that are needed for the new
environment. Presumably all the old crap will not get copied. I don't
know if this is equivalent to a fresh rebuild or not. Maybe you all
can comment.

Copy only those files "needed for the new environment"?
No I think it's a complete install plus all the extra
garbage left over, expect that the result will be a few
hundred (if not a gigabyte or more by now) of wasted space
due to leftover files... then again I have no idea how much
other software you have or haven't installed and uinstalled
during the history of the system so I could be wildly off in
that guesstimation.

Since you're making backups you can test all this for
yourself, with no obligation to keep the results if they're
unsatisfactory.
 
B

Bob

OK, I took screenshots of the Device Manager layout without View
Hidden and with View Hidden and made a side-by-side comparison

The Hidden group includes devices that I know are active in my system.
Therefore using "Hidden" as a criterion for whether a driver is in use
or is an old one is NOT a valid method.

There has got to be a way to clean up drivers without having to go to
all this trouble.

How about the Ace Utilities? I believe they have a crap purger.
 
K

kony

OK, I took screenshots of the Device Manager layout without View
Hidden and with View Hidden and made a side-by-side comparison

The Hidden group includes devices that I know are active in my system.
Therefore using "Hidden" as a criterion for whether a driver is in use
or is an old one is NOT a valid method.

I did not mean to suggest that as an all-encompassing method
to delete old hardware... It merely shows ALL devices so
you wouldn't overlook anything. I mentioned deleting
duplicates- not deleting anything you see. Instead I
suggest that you NOT delete anything you see, unless you
know quite specifically that some particular thing needs to
be deleted.
There has got to be a way to clean up drivers without having to go to
all this trouble.

I still don't know what you really try to gain by "cleaning
drivers"?

Any device in your system can only be running one driver.
It does not matter that it "used' to run another driver.

Any devices not in your system should not have drivers
loading. If you feel there are still these drivers loading
you must identify where they are loading.

Previously I mentioned the [ENUM] key. You might see what's
in there,
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
Given the example of the zip drive, you might look closer at
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\STORAGE


How about the Ace Utilities? I believe they have a crap purger.

Does your system still have a problem?
I dont' know anything about Ace Utilities but if the system
had been working properly I would reassess this statement:

"I had a corrupted boot disk and when I tried to add another
HD the system reported it as a ZIP disk. I do not have any
ZIP disks anymore - I had one before. So I assumed that the
OS screwed up and assigned the ZIP disk driver."

It may not be safe to "assume" a ZIP disk driver needs
removed, BUT if that is the case, you could try looking at
that driver itself, for example the file names and an INF
file that lists what changes were made to the system- then
undoing these changes.
 
B

Bob

Out of curiosity, what is the total size of your Winnt
folder? I don't remember the exact size right after a clean
install but believe it's well under 800MB.

1.8 GB But then I have a bunch of stuff installed.
Since you're making backups you can test all this for
yourself, with no obligation to keep the results if they're
unsatisfactory.

I am old school - if it works, don't fix it.
 

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