Removing Mini PCI video from chipset


C

cryotiger

I've got an IBM eServer xseries 225 8649 type running XP Pro with SP2.
This system comes with a 7505 Intel Chipset with an on-board video
mini-pci ATI Rage XL PCI card. I would like to upgrade it to a Nvidia
G-Force 6200 graphics card that I have fitted into the AGP Pro slot on
the board but I only get 16-color (4-bit) video and the following error

in device manager:


This device cannot find enough free resources that it can use. (Code
12)


If you want to use this device, you will need to disable one of the
other devices on this system.

I ran through the prompted microsoft troubleshooting but still no
success.

I have tried everything to remove all traces of the ATI drivers
(including Driver Cleaner!) but to no effect. I have even remove the
Rage XL mini pci card from the board but it still gives me the Code 12
error. I have check the BIOS configuration settings and I can't find
any way to point the video adapter at a PCI or AGP slot as there is
with some
intel chipsets.


Perhaps it's just not possible to upgrade to a different graphics card,

but I'd like to explore all possibilities first before returning my
graphics card to the shop.


Thanks, Richard
 
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C

cryotiger

Ok, after further searching I found this in the Adapter Considerations
section of the IBM xSeries 225 Types 8649 Hardware Maintenance Manual
and Troubleshooting Guide:

- Installation of an AGP video adapter in the AGP slot is not
supported.
- You can install only a 32-bit adapter in the 32-bit PCI slot 1 and
64-bit adapters in the 64-bit PCI-X slots 2 through 5.
- You can install full-length adapters in all five expansion slots;
however, full-length, double-width adapters will not fit in slot 5 and
are not supported. None of the expansion slots are hot-plug.
- The 32-bit PCI slot 1 supports 5.0 V signaling PCI adapters; it does
not support 3.3 V signaling adapters or 64-bit adapters.
- The 64-bit PCI-X slots 2 through 5 support 3.3 V signaling PCI or
PCI-X adapters; they do not support 5.0 V signaling adapters.

So it's back to the shop for a refund.
 
T

The little lost angel

Ok, after further searching I found this in the Adapter Considerations
section of the IBM xSeries 225 Types 8649 Hardware Maintenance Manual
and Troubleshooting Guide:

- Installation of an AGP video adapter in the AGP slot is not
supported.

I'm extremely curious, why did they provide an AGP slot if you cannot
install an AGP graphics card in it??? Is there something else that the
AGP slot is actually used for???
 
T

Tony Hill

Ok, after further searching I found this in the Adapter Considerations
section of the IBM xSeries 225 Types 8649 Hardware Maintenance Manual
and Troubleshooting Guide:

- Installation of an AGP video adapter in the AGP slot is not
supported.

?!?!? What in the hell else are you going to use in that AGP slot?
 
D

daytripper

?!?!? What in the hell else are you going to use in that AGP slot?

Nothing. AGP slot support was probably de-featured as part of a marketing play
(ploy) for a low-end box.

A rung or two up the price-point ladder, that slot probably worked...
 
N

nobody

Nothing. AGP slot support was probably de-featured as part of a marketing play
(ploy) for a low-end box.

A rung or two up the price-point ladder, that slot probably worked...

Looks quite like castrated P2, aka cacheless Celeron (covington,
IIRC). In some sense, even worse - that one didn't even pretend to
have the feature that was cut off. eServer with neuticles?
P)

NNN
 
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T

Tony Hill

Nothing. AGP slot support was probably de-featured as part of a marketing play
(ploy) for a low-end box.

A rung or two up the price-point ladder, that slot probably worked...

That's really quite tragic! And IBM is supposed to be one of the
"respectable" companies in the server world! You almost have to laugh
about this except for the fact that the original poster is probably by
no means the only one who was having trouble figuring out why no video
cards will work in that darned AGP slot!

Maybe if we've lucky they'll put some fake cache chips on their next
server!
 
D

Del Cecchi

Tony Hill said:
That's really quite tragic! And IBM is supposed to be one of the
"respectable" companies in the server world! You almost have to laugh
about this except for the fact that the original poster is probably by
no means the only one who was having trouble figuring out why no video
cards will work in that darned AGP slot!

Maybe if we've lucky they'll put some fake cache chips on their next
server!

Did the specs say it supported AGP video? Did OP pay for AGP video?
What made him believe that AGP video would ever work? Would you all be
happier if IBM hadn't bothered to solder the connector on the board?

del
 
D

daytripper

Did the specs say it supported AGP video? Did OP pay for AGP video?
What made him believe that AGP video would ever work? Would you all be
happier if IBM hadn't bothered to solder the connector on the board?

del

"Settle down, Francis."
 
D

Del Cecchi

daytripper said:
"Settle down, Francis."
Why should I settle down? Tony is the one who called it "tragic" and
implied IBM was less than respectable for putting this unusable
connector in this model server.

And a server needs AGP video for?

del
 
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D

Del Cecchi

chrisv said:
I think it's just a distaste for things that appear to be present and
functional, but in fact are not.
Ahh, the lure of something for nothing and your chicks for free. got it.
 
T

Tony Hill

Did the specs say it supported AGP video? Did OP pay for AGP video?
What made him believe that AGP video would ever work? Would you all be
happier if IBM hadn't bothered to solder the connector on the board?

Considering the ONLY sort of AGP card that I've ever encounter or
heard of is a video card, and NONE of those will work, then yes, I
would be *considerably* more happy if they had not soldered the
connector on the board!

It's not like AGP has lots of different uses and they are only
excluding a few rarely used ones, the slot is TOTALLY useless!
Perhaps not false advertising, but certainly not the sort of thing
that would make me want to buy one of their products. If I buy a
server with two processor sockets in it, am I suppose to then look at
the fine print and see if the second processor socket will actually
support CPUs?
 
D

daytripper

Considering the ONLY sort of AGP card that I've ever encounter or
heard of is a video card, and NONE of those will work, then yes, I
would be *considerably* more happy if they had not soldered the
connector on the board!

It's not like AGP has lots of different uses and they are only
excluding a few rarely used ones, the slot is TOTALLY useless!
Perhaps not false advertising, but certainly not the sort of thing
that would make me want to buy one of their products. If I buy a
server with two processor sockets in it, am I suppose to then look at
the fine print and see if the second processor socket will actually
support CPUs?

I think we've demonstrated that the answer to that is: yes.

I can cite multiple platforms that have been logically de-featured to enable a
lower entry-level price-point to appear in the marketing glossies. Some
disabled DIMM sockets, one narrowed the number of IO slots, one disabled half
the processor sockets (on a quad).

Due-diligence in all matters is required to get through life with any chance
of avoiding self-inflicted injury...

/daytripper
 
D

Del Cecchi

Tony said:
Considering the ONLY sort of AGP card that I've ever encounter or
heard of is a video card, and NONE of those will work, then yes, I
would be *considerably* more happy if they had not soldered the
connector on the board!

It's not like AGP has lots of different uses and they are only
excluding a few rarely used ones, the slot is TOTALLY useless!
Perhaps not false advertising, but certainly not the sort of thing
that would make me want to buy one of their products. If I buy a
server with two processor sockets in it, am I suppose to then look at
the fine print and see if the second processor socket will actually
support CPUs?

No, if you buy a single processor computer and take the case apart and
notice that there is another processor socket on the motherboard, are you

a) curious to see if it works?
b) angry if it doesn't work?
c) ready to disparage the seller for it not working?

The question is what the expectations were when you bought it. Did the
seller say or note in any way that there might be undisclosed
functionality? "this system only supports one processor, althogh the
board is the same as the dual processor model wink wink"

If no one even hinted at extra functionality then you certainly are
unjustified in being angry that it doesn't exist. Why would deleting
the socket from the Bill of Materials have affected your happiness?
Wouldn't the result be exactly the same?

del
 
K

Keith

I think we've demonstrated that the answer to that is: yes.

I can cite multiple platforms that have been logically de-featured to enable a
lower entry-level price-point to appear in the marketing glossies. Some
disabled DIMM sockets, one narrowed the number of IO slots, one disabled half
the processor sockets (on a quad).

IBM ships (or at least did) servers fully populated with some
logically switched off. The owner can use those processors upon
payment, even for a short period of time ("rent-a-MIP"). Crypto is
a wunnerful thing. ;-)
Due-diligence in all matters is required to get through life with any chance
of avoiding self-inflicted injury...

Maybe there should be a red banner across the box that says "NO
AGP" or perhaps "The Surgeon General has determined that...". ;-)
 
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T

The little lost angel

I can cite multiple platforms that have been logically de-featured to enable a
lower entry-level price-point to appear in the marketing glossies. Some
disabled DIMM sockets, one narrowed the number of IO slots, one disabled half
the processor sockets (on a quad).

So why don't they simply NOT have the socket/slot in the first place?
Eliminating the labour cost of adding the socket/slot, the physical
material cost would allow an even lower price point or higher profits
at the same price no?
 
D

daytripper

So why don't they simply NOT have the socket/slot in the first place?
Eliminating the labour cost of adding the socket/slot, the physical
material cost would allow an even lower price point or higher profits
at the same price no?

Again, the hope is to never sell the bottom-rung versions in the first place.
These things typically exist only to get a foot in the door and a chance to
make a sale of something more up-scale in capability (and ASV).

Given expected very low volume of these bottom-rung versions, it can be
cheaper to build all boards the same, put them through the same QC and test
process, and de-feature them at system assembly via firmware, then it would be
to create an entire parallel build-test-stock-spares line. This also helps
avoid being stuck with a bunch of end-of-life cripples should the overall
strategy actually work...

/daytripper
 
T

Tony Hill

I think we've demonstrated that the answer to that is: yes.

I can cite multiple platforms that have been logically de-featured to enable a
lower entry-level price-point to appear in the marketing glossies. Some
disabled DIMM sockets, one narrowed the number of IO slots, one disabled half
the processor sockets (on a quad).

This is, IMO, quite a different issue. It's not like I could pay IBM
extra to have them enable the AGP slot. The slot is as enabled as
it's ever going to get. From my understanding of the issue it is sold
as supporting non-video AGP cards (ie nothing).

I understand the reasoning behind the enabling/disabling of CPUs for
different marketing points, but including a slot that can NEVER be
used for anything regardless of the configuration?

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't like this one.
 
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K

Keith

This is, IMO, quite a different issue. It's not like I could pay IBM
extra to have them enable the AGP slot.

Sure you could. Buy a system the you need. I'm sure that with a
pot-o-money bg=ig enough you could get them to transfer all software and
kiss your PHB' hiney.
The slot is as enabled as it's ever going to get. From my
understanding of the issue it is sold as supporting non-video AGP cards
(ie nothing).

Ok. It was sold as not supporting AGP. Your point?
I understand the reasoning behind the enabling/disabling of CPUs for
different marketing points, but including a slot that can NEVER be used
for anything regardless of the configuration?

I don't see the difference. Others have told you why these things are
done. I really don't see your differentiation between CPUs and slots.
Maybe it's just me, but I really don't like this one.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see your point. Marketing does weird
things. Get used to it.
 

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