Removable HD Trays

[Thunder9]

This is my first home built system so please be kind...

I'd like to know if there are any issues to consider with using those
removable drive trays so you can pop out your IDE drive from the
front?

I'm sure I want to get a full tower (maybe something like an Antec
1240) that has 6 or 7 5.25" bays. Since I want my system to be
multi-purpose, I want to be able to easily swap out the hard drives
from the front. I think either 2, 3, or 4 of the bays will be
dedicated to swappable trays. I'll be using XP Professional with 7200
RPM drives. Hot swappable is not necessary (at least for the
foreseeable future).

Any advice on removable drive trays would be appreicated. Does the
case that I buy have to support it in any way shape or form? Maybe
this is just really a no brainer?

Thanks,
Thunder9

 

[Dave Hull]

Thunder9,

The IDE devices that slide out from the front are the 5 1/4 inch drives
(e.g., CD-ROMS, DVD-RW, and CD Recorders). The 3.5" hard drives
mount to a removable carrier in many instances, but you must take off
the side panel, since they do not slide out from the front. This isn't as
much of an inconvenience as it seems, though, as most side panels are
easily removable. However, you still have to screw the hard drives into
the carrier, so unless you have identical cases, then swapping drives is
going to be a chore. It is nearly the same with 5 1/4" drives, as you have
to remove the front panel to get to the rails' detaching mechanism and
the rails are proprietary. One note, though: hard drives can mount to
special adapter brackets that make them fit into 5.25" spaces, but I'm
not sure if the rails fit onto these. Also, don't expect many case
manufactures
to include these adapters with their cases.

So, if you want something that is easy to swap, then get a Firewire or USB-2
drive. If you want something that is easy to change, and have some time,
then
get two identical cases. Otherwise, have your screwdriver ready.

Dave

 

[Thunder9]

Thunder9,

The IDE devices that slide out from the front are the 5 1/4 inch drives
(e.g., CD-ROMS, DVD-RW, and CD Recorders). The 3.5" hard drives
mount to a removable carrier in many instances, but you must take off
the side panel, since they do not slide out from the front.

Maybe I'm not fully understanding you, but the hard drive trays I'm
talking about slide out from the front. See this....

http://www.backup-for-workgroups.com/set-up-removable-hard-drive.html
http://www.genica.com/Harddrives/gn-210.htm
http://www.kingwin.com/pdut_Cat.asp?CateID=35
http://www.evermax.co.uk/mb9121.htm

my concern is whether things like "rails" would get in the way of
something like this. I wouldn't want to buy a $200 case just to find
out I have to throw out the incompatible drive cage and buy a
different one...

Regards,
Thunder9

 

[Jan Alter]

Removeable rack mounts can be a real blessing. If you intend to go this
route make sure that each one you get is the same kind for easy
exchangeability. If you buy different brands they are not usually
interchangeable.
They mount the same way you would mount a CD drive; each having an outer
carrier that gets screwed in and then the insert tray that holds the hard
drive held in place with 4 screws. One of the nice options is that you have
easy capability of a dual boot system if you decided to install the complete
OS on a rack mount drive. .Some companies will also sell extra inserts for
the carrier so you can simply pull out one hdd and substitute another. As I
mentioned though when you buy them, if you need more than one then get the
same model at the same time so you have the interchangeability option.
They are not hot swappable like USB or firewire. Drives of this variety
also have great advantages but unless you have one of the newer 2.5" hdd
types will need to be externally plugged into a power source besides the
data connection cable.

 

[Mike ''Thrasher'' Kitchenman]

most of the swappable cases don't like 7200+ RPM hard drives....

they generate too much heat, although it might work with the vantec aluminum
doobies...

 

[Thunder9]

most of the swappable cases don't like 7200+ RPM hard drives....

they generate too much heat, although it might work with the vantec aluminum
doobies...

Thanks this is what I hear... that for faster RPMs you need to go with
aluminum....

Regards,
Thunder9

 

[Jan Alter]

most of the swappable cases don't like 7200+ RPM hard drives

I've had no trouble at all for at least two years running rack mount drives
using 7200 rpm maxtor or WD drives. I would think as long as the fan in the
carrier is working there's no problem with heat related issues.

 

[Thunder9]

I've had no trouble at all for at least two years running rack mount drives
using 7200 rpm maxtor or WD drives. I would think as long as the fan in the
carrier is working there's no problem with heat related issues.

Which ones do you have?

Thanks,
Thunder9

 

[Timothy Daniels]

[......] Since I want my system to be multi-purpose,
I want to be able to easily swap out the hard drives
from the front. I think either 2, 3, or 4 of the bays
will be dedicated to swappable trays. I'll be using
XP Professional with 7200 RPM drives.

Cooling may be a problem, especially if you have
a permanently-installed hard drive. Assuming you
do the logical thing and get aluminum trays with one
or two fans in the front of each of them to cool the
removable drives, each drive (whether fanned or not)
will allow more air to enter the case, increasing the
air pressure inside (i.e. reducing the "suction" caused
by the exhaust fan at the rear of the case). That
will reduce the air that is drawn in to cool the perman-
ently mounted hard drive. With multiple removable
hard drives in operation, the air pressure in the case
might even go positive - blowing warm air *out* the
front past the permanently mounted hard drive. One
solution might be to have a fan dedicated to pulling
air in (or blowing air in) over the permanent hard drive.
But that would involve a lot of cut-'n-try and temperature
sensing to get it right. Another solution might be to
have the air flowing *out* of the case at the rear be
variable - by multiple switchable fans or stepped fan
voltages - to compensate for each removable hard
drive that gets inserted. But that, again, is another
thermal engineering project.

What *I* would do (and what I plan to do) is use
just *one* removable aluminum tray with two small
fans drawing air in and blowing it past the removable
hard drive. To handle the added air influx due to the
removable tray's fans, I've removed the flat steel
gratings over the case and PSU exhaust fans (which
cause a back pressure when in place that you can
actually *feel*), I've installed "round" cables of the
shortest lengths possible to reduce air drag within
the case, and I've put the tower on a 3/4" board to
raise the front bezel up above the desk surface (so
the air doesn't have to be dragged over the desk
before entering the underside of the bezel). To aid
cooling of the permanent hard drive, I've removed
the sound-damping brackets that pressed on the face
of it. These are incremental and passive (K.I.S.S)
means to more air flow. If the new permanent hard
drive runs hot, I'll mount it on a 4" length of 6" wide
extruded aluminum channel (half an I-beam's cross-
section) and stand it edgewise in the air flow - which
may be aided by a 30mm or 40mm fan.

In short, more than one removable hard drive tray
would become a real challenge in thermal management.
Do you want that, and do you really need multiple
removable hard drives to provide the flexibility that
you want?


*TimDaniels*

 

[Thunder9]

[......] Since I want my system to be multi-purpose,
I want to be able to easily swap out the hard drives
from the front. I think either 2, 3, or 4 of the bays
will be dedicated to swappable trays. I'll be using
XP Professional with 7200 RPM drives.

Cooling may be a problem, especially if you have
a permanently-installed hard drive. Assuming you
do the logical thing and get aluminum trays with one
or two fans in the front of each of them to cool the
removable drives, each drive (whether fanned or not)
will allow more air to enter the case, increasing the
air pressure inside (i.e. reducing the "suction" caused
by the exhaust fan at the rear of the case). That
will reduce the air that is drawn in to cool the perman-
ently mounted hard drive. With multiple removable
hard drives in operation, the air pressure in the case
might even go positive - blowing warm air *out* the
front past the permanently mounted hard drive.

Thanks for the well thought out post that is very helpful. One point
I may not have made clear is that I won't have a permanently mounted
hard drive. My purpose for easy swap is to have 3 or 4 different
machines in one. A multimedia center. A gaming machine for when my
son comes over every other weekend. A download-anything and
I-don't-care-if-it-has-a-virus machine. And a small reliable
Quicken/finances machine. They should all be isolated from each other
so changes to one won't fubar the others. Of course, that will make
critical updates a pain in the arse, but such is the price to pay for
the increase in security and reliability.

Regards,
Thunder9

 

[Timothy Daniels]

"Thunder9" clarified:

....I won't have a permanently mounted hard drive. My
purpose for easy swap is to have 3 or 4 different machines
in one. A multimedia center. A gaming machine for when
my son comes over every other weekend. A download-
anything and I-don't-care-if-it-has-a-virus machine. And
a small reliable Quicken/finances machine. They should
all be isolated from each other so changes to one won't
fubar the others....

That sounds quite nice, and it's just what they do at the
our state university student computer lab - each student
gets issued a removable hard drive at the beginning of a
course, and it gets slid into the tower at the beginning
of each class, making the machine "his" for the duration
of that class. But all that needs is just *one* set of rails
and connectors , i.e. one receiving bay. Each "machine"
is defined by the removable tray (or "caddy") that gets
slid into the one bay. Is there a reason that you need
multiple hard drives for some or all of the different
"machines" you intend to implement? Couldn't just one
for each of them suffice? That would make cooling
requirements a constant from one configuration to the
next and the resulting system a lot simpler and more reliable.


*TimDaniels*

 

[Thunder9]

"Thunder9" clarified:


That sounds quite nice, and it's just what they do at the
our state university student computer lab - each student
gets issued a removable hard drive at the beginning of a
course, and it gets slid into the tower at the beginning
of each class, making the machine "his" for the duration
of that class. But all that needs is just *one* set of rails
and connectors , i.e. one receiving bay. Each "machine"
is defined by the removable tray (or "caddy") that gets
slid into the one bay. Is there a reason that you need
multiple hard drives for some or all of the different
"machines" you intend to implement? Couldn't just one
for each of them suffice? That would make cooling
requirements a constant from one configuration to the
next and the resulting system a lot simpler and more reliable.

I'm assuming that I'll have basically an OS+programs drive and at
least one additional data drive for multimedia applications. Its the
download-anything-don't-care-OS machine that worries me. If that
machine gets a trojan it'll have access to any other available drives.
So I figure why not make them all easily removable...

But man that sure could add up counting 3 aluminum trays plus extra
caddies... I'm thinking maybe some of the cases these days might have
essentially the same thing built in - only you have to open the side.

You have given me much to think about. I never considered the issue
of case pressure! Thanks for your feedback! I guess its "back to the
googling board" for me!

Regards,
Thunder9

 

[Pete Brannon]

Just wondering how this works with windows xp since it reads component's
IDs. Could you use the same hard drive on different machines?

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Just wondering how this works with windows xp
since it reads component's IDs. Could you use
the same hard drive on different machines?

I just spoke with the lab manager, and for the
lab's systems, the BIOS is set up to just look for
the hard drive among the four that are defined
(primary/secondary, master/slave) to find the
one that has the boot sector and to make that the
system drive. The identity of the hard drive is of no
concern to the OS (Win2K), and any caddy/tray/
carrier can be put into any machine, theoretically.
But the lab technician usually puts a caddy into the
same machine each time for compatibility assurances.
The manager's opinion was that the same would hold
for WinXP. The caddies, by the way, are made by
Kingston and they are aluminum.


*TimDaniels*

 

[alvin york]

Hi Thunder9!

I have used 5-1/4" removable tray assemblies in the past and can say they
worked fine. The outside of the tray is permanently installed in a 5-1/4"
space, (just like it was a 5-1/4" cd-rom drive, no rails necessary), and the
inside portion is the removable part. Old 5-1/4" hard drives needed no
special adapter in the inside portion.

If your hard drive is the 3.5" type you must use a suitable 3.5" to 5-1/4"
adapter to make it fit in the slide-out tray properly

BUT make sure that you buy Identical Removable Tray Assemblies, so that the
inside removable portion will fit in your other outside fixed portions if it
becomes necessary.

There seems to be no industry standard that guarantees that tray assemblies
bought from different mfrs., or even the same mfr. at different times, will
interchange.

You wire these up just like you would a regular fixed hard drive.

Remember that you have to partition and format each hard drive, and that any
Primary Dos Partition first grabs the letter "C" if not already in use, then
the second Primary Dos Partition grabs "D", then the 3rd grabs "E", etc.

I hope this is clear to you.

 

[Gigio2K]

*Jan Alter* ci ha deliziati con queste righe

Quote:

I've had no trouble at all for at least two years running rack mount
drives using 7200 rpm maxtor or WD drives. I would think as long as
the fan in the carrier is working there's no problem with heat
related issues.

i've had two HD : 60 and 80Gb maxtor 7200 in the pvc rack, the 60Gb in the
summer is dead , 80 working fine !!!

i've mount on this mode :
empty slot
rack 80gb
empty slot
rack 60gb
empty slot


yes , i underline this !

 

[alvin york]

Hey Thunder9!

The way you want to use these removable drives, it seems to me you should
have Only One plugged in at a time.

Each one should have a Primary Dos Partition plus whatever other partitions
you want on that hard drive. Then Format each partition, install your
desired OS and your desired software programs.

Set them all aside and only plug in the particular one you wish to use.

As I said before, if you plug them all in at the same time, one will grab
"C" for its Primary Dos Partition, the second will grab "D", etc., and you
will have a real problem. I do not believe you can "isolate" or "insulate"
them from each other, except by leaving the ones you are not using on the
shelf.

Now I could be wrong, but think it over before you get further involved.

If I am wrong I will be glad to read a polite specific explanation of "why".

[......] Since I want my system to be multi-purpose,
I want to be able to easily swap out the hard drives
from the front. I think either 2, 3, or 4 of the bays
will be dedicated to swappable trays. I'll be using
XP Professional with 7200 RPM drives.

Cooling may be a problem, especially if you have
a permanently-installed hard drive. Assuming you
do the logical thing and get aluminum trays with one
or two fans in the front of each of them to cool the
removable drives, each drive (whether fanned or not)
will allow more air to enter the case, increasing the
air pressure inside (i.e. reducing the "suction" caused
by the exhaust fan at the rear of the case). That
will reduce the air that is drawn in to cool the perman-
ently mounted hard drive. With multiple removable
hard drives in operation, the air pressure in the case
might even go positive - blowing warm air *out* the
front past the permanently mounted hard drive.

Thanks for the well thought out post that is very helpful. One point
I may not have made clear is that I won't have a permanently mounted
hard drive. My purpose for easy swap is to have 3 or 4 different
machines in one. A multimedia center. A gaming machine for when my
son comes over every other weekend. A download-anything and
I-don't-care-if-it-has-a-virus machine. And a small reliable
Quicken/finances machine. They should all be isolated from each other
so changes to one won't fubar the others. Of course, that will make
critical updates a pain in the arse, but such is the price to pay for
the increase in security and reliability.

Regards,
Thunder9

 

[alvin york]

Hey Timothy!

Glad to see that you apparently agree with my comments, re using only one
removable hd at a time in one fixed rack.

 

[alvin york]

Hi Thunder9!

Its the
download-anything-don't-care-OS machine that worries me.

Don't you believe in using an AntiVirus software program, and a Firewall
software program?

You certainly should install both of these on a "
download-anything-don't-care-OS machine".

I would install both on all of your hard drives. It is just good practice
if you plan to use the Internet.

Also I do not believe a trojan that takes over one removable hard drive
would be transferred to another hard drive if only one is plugged in at a
time.

Hey Timothy, am I correct about this?

 

[alvin york]

Hi Pete!

Good question!

I doubt you could use any of these hard drives on another PC.

When you install and "activate" XP MS notes the ID or whatever it is that
identifies your computer.

Would it "activate" 4 or 5 hard drives on the same computer if each had Win
XP installed?