Registry: Clean or Leave Alone?

[Guest]

Looking at a number of the posts here has left me a little confused.

Some say clean it and suggest particular programs others say leave it well
alone.

The Windows Live Safety Centre (beta) contains a Registry Cleansing
component and even recommends that this be done from time to time
(http://safety.live.com/site/en-US/article/registry_cleaner_why.htm).

If the people that actually make your OS recommend that the registry is
cleaned periodically surely that is the best thing to do? No?

 

[Ted Zieglar]

The term "registry cleaner" does not have a standard definition. Anyone can
write any program and call it a registry cleaner, so the term is essentially
meaningless.

Most of the junkware --- sorry, I meant software -- that is sold under the
'registry cleaner' banner is marketed to users who have, at best, a vague
understanding of how their computer works. These poor people fall for the
hype and allow a third party to mess around with the internals of their
operating system without knowing what the program is doing, or being able to
understand it even if they did know. The results can be humorous at best and
disasterous at worst. These sample people wouldn't ask a heart surgeon to
'go inside, have a look and fix what you think needs fixing', but they allow
that very thing to happen to their computers.

These newsgroups are filled with posts from users who let a 'registry
cleaner' do whatever, and find themselves in more trouble than they know how
to deal with.

Moreover, no reputable organization has ever proved that the use of a
registry cleaner provides any benefit to a computer's performance. There are
no before-and-after metrics.

At best, a so-called registry cleaner offers a convenient interface for
performing maintenance procedures that a well-informed user is performing on
their own. That is what Microsoft is offering. Beyond that, there is no
reason to edit the registry -- let alone perform wholesale 'cleaning' -
unless you are experiencing a specific problem that a specific registry edit
can solve. In that case, you backup the registry (most conveniently by
setting a restore point) and apply the registry edit.

 

[Peter]

Listen to this man. Best advice. And free.

The term "registry cleaner" does not have a standard definition. Anyone
can
write any program and call it a registry cleaner, so the term is
essentially
meaningless.

Most of the junkware --- sorry, I meant software -- that is sold under the
'registry cleaner' banner is marketed to users who have, at best, a vague
understanding of how their computer works. These poor people fall for the
hype and allow a third party to mess around with the internals of their
operating system without knowing what the program is doing, or being able
to
understand it even if they did know. The results can be humorous at best
and
disasterous at worst. These sample people wouldn't ask a heart surgeon to
'go inside, have a look and fix what you think needs fixing', but they
allow
that very thing to happen to their computers.

These newsgroups are filled with posts from users who let a 'registry
cleaner' do whatever, and find themselves in more trouble than they know
how
to deal with.

Moreover, no reputable organization has ever proved that the use of a
registry cleaner provides any benefit to a computer's performance. There
are
no before-and-after metrics.

At best, a so-called registry cleaner offers a convenient interface for
performing maintenance procedures that a well-informed user is performing
on
their own. That is what Microsoft is offering. Beyond that, there is no
reason to edit the registry -- let alone perform wholesale 'cleaning' -
unless you are experiencing a specific problem that a specific registry
edit
can solve. In that case, you backup the registry (most conveniently by
setting a restore point) and apply the registry edit.

 

[David Candy]

You need to realise that MS is lots of small companies. The divisions do not talk to each other (without several firms of lawyers present). This looks like a market driven thing.

So as programs are far stupider than people what do you think a registry cleaner brings to the table. If you cannot describe the algorithm then one cannot assess what the program does.

MS invented Regmaid and Regclean for one reason. Developing com applications installed a com server registry entries every time the programmer hit Run, which he or she may do 10,000 times. The file only exists till the next time the programmer hits run. This means a developer machine may have hundereds of thousands of non existant installed com servers.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the responses.

I do not have the knowledge or technical skills necessary to perform work
upon the the registry. I agree that there are many software companies that
are more than happy to take a my cash in exchange for exploiting my
ignorance. So I am left with a problem when the very people that produced my
OS tell me things like:

"Speed up your PC by cleaning your registry"

and

"How often should I clean my registry?
We recommend a complete Windows Live Safety Center scan once a month. The
full-service scan checks your registry automatically."

I agree that the term 'cleaning' may be ill-defined/misleading but asssume
that it is just dumbed-down for people like me. Having said that, whatever
'cleaning' may or may not mean, the very people who produced my OS are
telling me that I should perform this action on a regular basis.

My PC is fairly new and runs fine but in view of MS's advice I ran CCleaner
(recommended by many posters here) out of curiosity. It has identified a
number of 'Issues' but I have erred on the side of caution and chosen not to
have these problems 'fixed' (despite the fact that many do appear to relate
software that I have removed from my system).

So now I am in limbo.

Is the whole registry cleaning topic really just down to personal opinion? A
kind of Windows or Mac thing?

 

[Ted Zieglar]

The people who wrote your operating system are not telling you to run a
registry cleaner. They are offering you a service which you can use if you
want to.

To add to what David explained: The phrase "Speed up your PC by cleaning
your registry" is meaningless for many reasons:

1. No one has published before-and-after results that prove increased speed
from using a registry cleaner.
2. What does that mean "cleaning your registry"? There is no standard
definition.
3. How much faster is your computer supposed to run?
4. Etc. etc.

There are two ways to make your computer run at its best and keep it that
way: Adopt the right attitude -- which you clearly have done -- and invest
the time to learn how your computer works and how to use it wisely. There
are no shortcuts or 'magic bullets'.

With those two qualities you can just about guarantee yourself an enjoyable,
stress-free computing experience. Yes, it takes time. Yes, it's worth it. I
have no formal training in computers and yet my PC runs like Speedy Gonzales
(remember him?) and as smooth as silk . Sure, things go wrong from time to
time, but nothing I can't easily handle.

In the beginning, every computer user has to know two things:
1. How to backup - so you won't lose your data in the event problems strike
(as they most assuredly will); and
2. How to protect the integrity of your computer from the Internet.

After that you begin to learn how personal computing works and before long
you are able to pick hard information from hype. That's when you know you're
getting somewhere!

 

[PopS]

Ohhh, I tried to ignore this, I really did! But the repetition
got to me. <g>

First to answer a couple questions the OP asked that were pretty
well ignored or only alluded to:
-- Yes, it's mostly a matter of opinion, and there are two
camps, very similar to political right/left wingers. Both are
right, and both are wrong; some are purists, some are not.
-- In general, if the manufacturer/designer recommends
something, and even provides the means to do it, as you mention,
then yes, it's most likely a pretty safe app to use.

IMO, the answer to whether to use a "cleaner" is a personal
perference and, if the cleaner comes from a reputable source,
it's most likely going to work fine and do what it says.
Contrary to what the purists in this thread are saying so far, in
my case I have NEVER seen a "cleaner" for the registry cause ANY
problems when its own instructions were followed. NEVER. Just
like the very dangerous Regedit many of these puritsts will tell
you to use, any software that frogs with an os internals can
cause problems.

As you've discovered, most of what the cleaners find is often
leftover "stuff" from old installs and removed software; stuff
left behind that shouldn't be there and after awhile, if you
install/uninstall a lot, can create some very long registry
hives. How much leftover crap they'll find depends a lot of what
you do with your computer but there are almost always bunches of
leftovers laying around and other problems too, such as active-x
mislocations, incorrect, no longer existing paths, shortcuts to
data files you've deleted and archived; it's a pretty long list.
Just stay away from the no-names and you'll be OK.

My favorite registry cleaners are pcpitstop's and Norton
Symantec's. There are a couple others too but I don't recall
them at the moment; I use Symantec's all the time now for these
tasks.
AN IMPORTANT CAVEAT THOUGH: Ms's stuff, I believe, is BETA,
is it not? Personally I wouldn't trust that yet. BETA is a
testing stage for software to see if it's ready for prime time
and all users. It could easily still contain bugs that still
haven't been seen. IMO, one should NOT use BETA software unless
they have the ability to recover from anything it might screw up:
I don't think that's you, IFF I'm right about it being in BETA.

That all said, I also feel compelled to comment inline:

The people who wrote your operating system are not telling you
to run a
registry cleaner. They are offering you a service which you can
use if you
want to.

====>As is the case with ANY/ALL software, regardless of what it
is.

To add to what David explained: The phrase "Speed up your PC by
cleaning
your registry" is meaningless for many reasons:

1. No one has published before-and-after results that prove
increased speed
from using a registry cleaner.

====>Untrue: In fact, I did that very thing back in the days of
win98. I have also "repaired" machines for others where
"cleaning the reigistry" made a noticeable albeit not great,
difference in "speed" at boot up. I no longer experience it with
XP because I 1. periodically clean the registry and 2 the
registry has gotten so huge that it takes a lot of crapping in it
before it becomes noticeable, but when it does, boy does it ever!
Again, experienced on other machines, not my own.

2. What does that mean "cleaning your registry"? There is no
standard
definition.

====>There doesn't have to be a "standard" definition as long as
the application explains what IT "cleans". While there may not
be a standard, written definition, which BTW there is, the
intuitive concept and meaning of the phrase pretty well conveys
the manner of the application. Wikipedia for instance, resolves
30 pretty decent links, plus offers a pretty decent, common sense
description of it.

3. How much faster is your computer supposed to run?

====> Varies, and related to preventive maintenance, IMO.

4. Etc. etc. ====>Etc. etc. etc..

There are two ways to make your computer run at its best and
keep it that
way: Adopt the right attitude -- which you clearly have done --
and invest
the time to learn how your computer works and how to use it
wisely. There
are no shortcuts or 'magic bullets'.

====>He's absolutely right here and that's clearly the best path
if you plan to invest the next several months to years in
education for yourself. In the end, once you get past the
"enough to be dangerous" stage, you suddenly realize you -could-
have used that stuff after all! You -know- those
shortcuts/programs/documents no longer exist; getting rid of them
is good preventive maintenance as long as you use a decent
program and understand how IT, not the entire computer,
functions. Experience is the best teacher in the world.

With those two qualities you can just about guarantee yourself
an enjoyable,
stress-free computing experience. Yes, it takes time. Yes, it's
worth it. I
have no formal training in computers and yet my PC runs like
Speedy Gonzales
(remember him?) and as smooth as silk . Sure, things go wrong
from time to
time, but nothing I can't easily handle.

====> Sooo, that's a "guarantee" of a cleanly kept system? I
don't think so. I could write a book on why it's good to clean
ones registry and under what circumstances, and best ways to do
so, but I won't because these posters are deaf ears. It's mostly
the inconsistance of the foregoing that caused me to comment on
this point.

In the beginning, every computer user has to know two things:
1. How to backup - so you won't lose your data in the event
problems strike
(as they most assuredly will); and

====>DEFINITELY! In fact, it's even more important to know how
to RESTORE. Many, many people faithfully do archiving these days
and then are pretty rudely surprised when they encounter a
catastrophic failure and their recovery process, which they
thought they understood so well, isn't working or more likely has
such big holes that the person doesn't even know where to start.
There are different ways to back up, some good, some not so
good, and so many variables that, like selecting an ISP, it's a
matter of personal choice and depends on what kind of recovery
you want or can afford. For the most part, the ONLY things that
need backing up is all of your data. And, that's a lot easier to
restore for a beginner. For beginners it's often easier and
quicker to just reinstall everything and then copy your data
back. For others, that can be a really huge job and totally
unacceptable. Personally, except for ghosting, I think ntbackup,
which comes with XP, both home and pro, is the most easily used
for beginners and experienced alike. For my system backup I use
ntbackup; for pure data I use Winzip 10's batch features on a
schedule. Works out nicely, but again it's a personal choice.

2. How to protect the integrity of your computer from the
Internet.

====> MS has good info on that which you're probably seen several
time posted here and on your own computer.

After that you begin to learn how personal computing works and
before long
you are able to pick hard information from hype. That's when
you know you're
getting somewhere!

HTH Some,
Pop

 

[Kerry Brown]

Registry cleaners/fixers/repair tools can be useful. Like any tool they can
also cause problems if not used correctly. A chainsaw is a great tool in the
hands of an experienced user. A beginner often cuts too far causing unwanted
damage to something other than the intended item. They may even end up in
the hospital as the result of using one. Registry tools are much the same.
They are tools to use when something is broken. They should be used with
care. Other than a backup tool like erunt there is no need to use a registry
cleaner/tool as part of your regular maintenance.

 

[PopS]

That's a good analogy; for the users of REGEDIT. In fact, that
is EXACTLY why registry maintenance tools exist. If you like
analogies so much, it's more like an automated, cnc type of
machine meant to replace the dangers of the chain saw and to make
its use safer and easier.

People who live with analogies shouldn't; facts are much clearer.

 

[Guest]

Thank you Ted (and thank you PopS for balancing the discussion and for the
extra advice).

I think, as a novice, I will endeavour to understand exactly what the
registry is and how it functions myself before giving a piece of software
carte blanche to disembowel my shiny and currently happy machine!

g

 

[Ted Zieglar]

I think you made the right decision.

When I was a novice I had the problem of deciding whose advice to trust. One
thing I gave consideration to was the person's apparent attitude.

To give a rather extreme example, here is an opinion I did not trust:

"Don't believe all that crap you read from those Micro$oft losers."

 

[Kerry Brown]

I don't recall mentioning regedit in my post. I lump it in with the rest of
the registry tools. Use it with care. Used wrongly it will bite you.

You really have to get over your prejudices. If you read my post with an
open mind you would have seen that I am not against using registry tools. I
am for using them with caution and only using them when other avenues of
repair have failed. You have to admit that any time you alter the registry
there is a possibility of corruption. Even Windows writing the registry at
shutdown sometimes causes corruption. I never access the registry without a
known good backup and I document all changes. Some tools make this easier,
some make it harder. I made no recommendations on which one to use other
than erunt for backups. I recommended using any of them with care.

 

[PopS]

I don't recall mentioning regedit in my post. I lump it in with
the rest of the registry tools. Use it with care. Used wrongly
it will bite you.

You really have to get over your prejudices. If you read my
post with an open mind you would have seen that I am not
against using registry tools.

lol, I don't mean this as offensively as you'll probably take it,
but prejudice is actually YOUR major problem. You spout the
same, lame lines each time this comes up, and talk about the same
lack of information that's freely available in many places. You
want "never" and "always" to be the major context of your
speeches, and I won't subscribe to that. You in fact, work hard
to give the impression that there is no useful function for a
registry tool but you have no verifiable data other than your own
pompous words to back any of it up. I don't care what you've
never "seen"; that means nothing, and obviously it means you
choose not to read anything that disagrees with your views. I
have and still do read both sides of any controversey, including
this one, and under the right circumstances a registry tool is a
very valuable tool to have, and does not take a rocket scientist
as you would like to imply most to believe, to use it.
Sometimes you have good advice; and other times you appear to
be a clearly closed mind without room for anyone else's opinions,
and you work hard to convince newbies that your way is gospel,
and ... .


I

 

[Kerry Brown]

I still don't see where you're coming from. I never said don't use registry
tools. I said use them with caution. Surely you're not suggesting that
everyone should throw caution to the wind and blindly try any old registry
tool and let it do whatever it wants. I also have no idea what you are
talking about when you say "talk about the same lack of information that's
freely available in many places" What information are you talking about? I
understand that we disagree on this subject but at least try to make some
sense. Most of what you are talking about has nothing to do with my posts.