Registration and legalities

[K-dog]

I will be getting another computer shortly, (w/ NO O.S.)
and want to install XP PRO. I have many questions.

1)What to buy?...I see OEM, full oem, full retail. What
is the pro and cons for using or buying each? Which is
better?

2)Is a "full oem" version the same software as a full
retail?

3)Can I put XP on my new comp and then again on a third
one that I plan to buy a month later?

4)What is all the hype about registering. Can I install
and use the full software without registering w/Microsoft?

5)Can you still do live update without registering?

6)If I'm not allowed to use it on more than one computer,
that's fine, but how will they know? I ask this not so
much to use one copy for a million computers but in
curiosity on HOW Microsoft would KNOW...are they allowed
or have ways where they look into your computer (snoop)
and "verify" things??

7)If I buy a copy from EBAY or somewhere, what happens if
they lied about it not being registered. A friend told me
that it wouldn't matter as long as I just use it without
registering it. Is that true. How can I know if I have a
legal copy without necessarily letting Microsoft know
which copy I have?

8)If I want to also install Office pro 2003 do I need to
buy 3 copies for 3 home computers? That would be $1500
and seems a bit much (to put it nicely) for one poor soul
to put it on all his personal computers.

 

[CWatters]

I will be getting another computer shortly, (w/ NO O.S.)
and want to install XP PRO. I have many questions.

1)What to buy?...I see OEM, full oem, full retail. What
is the pro and cons for using or buying each? Which is
better?

The s/w is the same in most cases HOWEVER the level of support and (I
believe) the ability to upgrade or move the OS to another PC varies.

The price of the full retail version includes an element that Microsoft
believe covers their costs for providing support (you can argue that point
somewhere else). Microsoft can't hope to support all the worlds users so
they sell a lower cost version (the OEM version) to computer manufacturers
on the understanding that the manufacturer takes over the support
responsibility. If you then call Microsoft and quote them an OEM licence
number they will refer you to the manufacturer of your computer.

The manufacturer can be almost anyone from Dell to little Jonny building PCs
in his parents garage, so the level of support will vary. Some retailers
will sell you the OEM version if you buy even a tiny bit of hardware like a
cable. The profit on a cable is less than $1 so you have to wonder what
level of support you are going to get for your money.

Personally I've never had a helpful answer from a manufacturers support
service. They usually work through a list of things you have already tried
("Turn it off and on again") and the stock answer for many problems is to
tell you to wipe your entire HD and re-install everything from their
recovery CD. (eg back to the state it was in when it left their "factory",
leaving you to repeat any updates you have done and recover your data from
backups).

2)Is a "full oem" version the same software as a full
retail?

I'm not sure if it's possible to uninstall an OEM copy and move it to a new
PC when you upgrade. That's not a worry for me because I don't upgrade every
six months.

3)Can I put XP on my new comp and then again on a third
one that I plan to buy a month later?

See answer to 2).

4)What is all the hype about registering. Can I install
and use the full software without registering w/Microsoft?

It's called "Activation" you need to do it within 28 days I believe. Note:
make sure your PC's clock is correct in the BIOS before you install the OS.
If it's 1 year slow for example then you may have to activate your OS
immediatly you correct the date in Windows. It happened to me.

5)Can you still do live update without registering?

not sure but see answer to 4).

6)If I'm not allowed to use it on more than one computer,

You can only do this legally if you have multiple product keys/licences.

that's fine, but how will they know? I ask this not so
much to use one copy for a million computers but in
curiosity on HOW Microsoft would KNOW...are they allowed
or have ways where they look into your computer (snoop)
and "verify" things??

There is lots of info on this on the web.

7)If I buy a copy from EBAY or somewhere, what happens if
they lied about it not being registered. A friend told me
that it wouldn't matter as long as I just use it without
registering it. Is that true. How can I know if I have a
legal copy without necessarily letting Microsoft know
which copy I have?

Microsoft have a list of known copied/cracked keys.

8)If I want to also install Office pro 2003 do I need to
buy 3 copies for 3 home computers? That would be $1500
and seems a bit much (to put it nicely) for one poor soul
to put it on all his personal computers.

You can always buy the full retail product for the OS but the OEM product
for office. In which case you will get MS support for the OS and have to
support yourself for Office.

Note. If you buy the OEM version of any product you can still use a) this
Newsgroup and numerous other forums full of official and unofficial experts
b). Web searches to find other people with the same problem. c) Microsofts
built in help and support system to access their knowledge base.

 

[CWatters]

See also the thread above called "Re: Windows XP Install CD??"

 

[Alex Nichol]

I will be getting another computer shortly, (w/ NO O.S.)
and want to install XP PRO. I have many questions.

1)What to buy?...I see OEM, full oem, full retail. What
is the pro and cons for using or buying each? Which is
better?

OEM ones are restricted to the first machine where they are installed,
and may not later be transferred on to another. They carry no rights of
support from Microsoft, and can only be installed Clean

2)Is a "full oem" version the same software as a full
retail?
Yes

3)Can I put XP on my new comp and then again on a third
one that I plan to buy a month later?

No - you are required to buy it a separate license - and that has been
the case with windows for at least ten years

4)What is all the hype about registering. Can I install
and use the full software without registering w/Microsoft?

You are not required to register (yourself as the owner), though it
helps should you then want to get telephone support. What you are
required to do is 'activate' the system on the specific hardware, which
is a mechanism to stop people casually breaking that license by
installing on multiple machines. See www.aumha.org/win5/a/wpa.htm

5)Can you still do live update without registering?

6)If I'm not allowed to use it on more than one computer,
that's fine, but how will they know?

If you do not activate, the machine will stop working (apart from the
very limited Safe Mode) after 30 days. If you try activating the same
copy on a second machine it will fail. A retail copy may later be
installed and activated on a successor machine *after removal from the
first* and in activating you would be required to declare that it had
been so removed

 

[Tim Slattery]

Yes

NO. A "full retail" disk will install on any machine. It can be
transferred to another computer if it's removed from the original
machine. It comes with support from Microsoft. NONE of that is true of
an OEM disk.

 

[David Candy]

Still the same software.

NO. A "full retail" disk will install on any machine. It can be
transferred to another computer if it's removed from the original
machine. It comes with support from Microsoft. NONE of that is true of
an OEM disk.

 

[Tim Slattery]

Still the same software.

I understand the argument. The OS that's installed on the machine is
the same. The license terms, and the circumstances under which it will
install, are *very* different.

 

[David Candy]

It's what alex meant. I avoid these Q normally because I don't wanna type all the legal crap.

 

[Gary Tait]

I'm not sure if it's possible to uninstall an OEM copy and move it to a new
PC when you upgrade. That's not a worry for me because I don't upgrade every
six months.

Possoblrly possible, but against the EULA.

 

[Alex Nichol]

NO. A "full retail" disk will install on any machine. It can be
transferred to another computer if it's removed from the original
machine. It comes with support from Microsoft. NONE of that is true of
an OEM disk.

Read it in the context of the original question. The OEM system *as
installed* is exactly the same as a retail one. All that differs is the
setup (which will not do an upgrade) and licensing - which does not
relate to the software as such

 

[Maiso]

Hi:

I have seen so many post asking for a comparison between Windows Xp
Pro Full OEM version versus Full Retail that I was ask to run a test
to see if what is beeing said is "completely true". Just for the sake
of doing this as a test, I ask one of my friend if he has an OEM Full
version of Windows XP and I borrowed that copy from him which is for
the Home Edition. That version was installed on his PC when he bought
it about a year ago. Therefore more than 120 days has gone since
installation. I took the CD and try to run setup in a freshly
formatted HD on a different PC with all the components completely
different from the one in his original PC where it was installed since
last year. I have no problem whatsoever with the installation on this
"new PC" and also I was able, with his consent as a test only, to
activate that second computer using the web activation. It was even
activated from a location far away from his home. After we did that, I
uninstalled the software completely from that second PC and returned
the OEM version to him including the brand new HD which I reformatted
again to erase any information from it. Now my question is this; how
can that happened and why the activation went through without a hitch?
I am not encouraging anybody to do that themselves because it is
illegal but on the other hand it is still possible to do it if I was
able to do it at least for just 10 minutes. Any comments.

 

[Alex Nichol]

After we did that, I
uninstalled the software completely from that second PC and returned
the OEM version to him including the brand new HD which I reformatted
again to erase any information from it. Now my question is this; how
can that happened and why the activation went through without a hitch?

It is only some makes where the software has been customised to any
extent to match proprietary hardware - Compaq as the most notable case.
Just because they produced the first clone of the IBM PC they seem to
think there is no benefit to them in keeping in step with the 'standard'
that developed.

As to the activation, that is what is expected when a BIOS lock does
not get satisfied. At the technical level, normal activation starts up,
and behaves as if this was the first activation of that copy. Without
knowing just what happens on a later occasion, my guess would be that if
it got through to a phone activation, they would recognise the OEM and
also that the hardware hash was from a different machine, and not permit
any 'manual' activation of that. Of course there is the 120 day let out
which would allow you to do as you did again. There are holes - WPA was
not intended as a defence against the serious pirates, but to point out
the license to the casual copiers. As in the case reported by another
MVP around the time XP came out:

<quote>
I spoke to a friend of mine today who has just taken over as
IT manager to his company. On running an inventory of their software
and hardware, he found the following:

127 PCs (oc which 3 are servers)
1 legal copy of Windows 95
1 legal copy of WIndows 98
1 legal copy of Windows 2000
1 legal copy of Windows2000 Server
4 legal copies of Office97

At this company there is not and never has been any open/volume
licensing. Asking the company directors resulted in the remark:
"Well, they all wanted the most recent software, so we installed it".