Reformatting the C system drive

[Ron Hirsch]

I think that my C drive is having some issues, and I have a replacement
drive to use if indeed the drive itself is beyond having a reformat resolve
the issues. Before installing a new drive, which I'll preformat outside of
the machine in question, I'd like to take a shot at formatting the existing
drive in place, and then restore a current image of that drive via my True
Image boot CD.

So I want to reformat my 400 GB C while it's in place in the machine. If I
boot up into Windows, and go to a command prompt, and then key in "format
c:" - will I then get a message staing that it cannot do that while Windows
is running, and will do so the next time when I start a "bootup", following
which of course, it will not boot up, as there will be nothing installed on
the C drive. If this will work, I could then boot up from the TI recovery
CD, which will run True Image from the CD, and allow me to restore an image
that I created before starting this whole process.

But can I format the C drive this way? I see no path to do the format
process in True Image ver 11 capabilities, or have I missed this.

I know I can remove the drive, and format it via an external USB connection
to another machine, and then put it back in place. But I'd like to avoid the
added work to do it this way.

How about my Knoppix or Bart PE disks - are they a usable choice also?

Ron Hirsch

 

[Big Al]

I think that my C drive is having some issues, and I have a replacement
drive to use if indeed the drive itself is beyond having a reformat resolve
the issues. Before installing a new drive, which I'll preformat outside of
the machine in question, I'd like to take a shot at formatting the existing
drive in place, and then restore a current image of that drive via my True
Image boot CD.

So I want to reformat my 400 GB C while it's in place in the machine. If I
boot up into Windows, and go to a command prompt, and then key in "format
c:" - will I then get a message staing that it cannot do that while Windows
is running, and will do so the next time when I start a "bootup", following
which of course, it will not boot up, as there will be nothing installed on
the C drive. If this will work, I could then boot up from the TI recovery
CD, which will run True Image from the CD, and allow me to restore an image
that I created before starting this whole process.

But can I format the C drive this way? I see no path to do the format
process in True Image ver 11 capabilities, or have I missed this.

I know I can remove the drive, and format it via an external USB connection
to another machine, and then put it back in place. But I'd like to avoid the
added work to do it this way.

How about my Knoppix or Bart PE disks - are they a usable choice also?

Ron Hirsch

I know booting the XP install CD gives you the option to partition and
format the partition prior to installing XP. I do it all the time.
If you do this and can't stop the install, (I can't remember if it goes
immediately into the load or not), then you have simple options.
1 - open the cd and let it error during the load and then power off.
2 - let it load XP a bit then when it reboots just insert the TI boot CD
and overwrite what was loaded.

I kept an old win 98 boot disc I keep around with format and fdisk on
the floppy just for the heck of it. But external cases have almost
made this worthless.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

I think that my C drive is having some issues, and I have a
replacement drive to use if indeed the drive itself is beyond
having a reformat resolve the issues. Before installing a new
drive, which I'll preformat outside of the machine in question,

Why would you attempting to 'pre-format a hard disk drive outisde of the
machine it will be used in'?

I'd like to take a shot at formatting the existing drive in place, and
then restore a current image of that drive via my True Image boot
CD.

A *current* image - or one where things were actually wotrking as you
expectec?

So I want to reformat my 400 GB C while it's in place in the
machine. If I boot up into Windows, and go to a command prompt, and
then key in "format c:" - will I then get a message stating that it
cannot do that while Windows is running, and will do so the next
time when I start a "bootup"

I don't think you got this - as far as I know, if you try to format the
system drive within windows - it just says you cannot. Nothing about next
boot.

, following which of course, it will
not boot up, as there will be nothing installed on the C drive. If
this will work, I could then boot up from the TI recovery CD, which
will run True Image from the CD, and allow me to restore an image
that I created before starting this whole process.

You can do that without ever formatting anything. TrueImage will gladly
overwrite anything and everything on whatever drive uyou decide to put in
there.

But can I format the C drive this way? I see no path to do the
format process in True Image ver 11 capabilities, or have I missed
this.

When using imaging software - it is the partitioning that matters - not
formatting. The 'format' is included in the partition image you are going
to apply to whatever drive. It is the partitioning that you must do (and is
already done if you have a working system.)

I know I can remove the drive, and format it via an external USB
connection to another machine, and then put it back in place. But
I'd like to avoid the added work to do it this way.

That would be as worthless now as the first part where you were going to
pre-format the new drive before putting it into the system. Just use a
Windows XP boot CD or a BartPE boot CD or a DOS boot diskette or a DOS boot
CD or a utility of your choice to boot up and clear the partitions and
create new ones if you want to be sure you have a clean slate to start with.

How about my Knoppix or Bart PE disks - are they a usable choice
also?

See above.

Research partitioning. Your image application will overwrite whatever
format you put on the system. You only need to make sure you have the
partitioning setup appropriately.

 

[Ron Hirsch]

Thanks, Al & Shenan, for your replies

To do a "regular" format, not a "quick" format takes about 90 minutes on a
new unformatted 400 GB hard drive.

I am not changing any partitions - there is only one on the disk. When
restoring a drive via a TI backup image, TI must simply do a "quick" format
before writing enverything back to the disk, since the restoration usually
take only 10-15 minutes. But I don't want that.

When I do a "chkdsk c: /F" in the run window, that happens the next time I
boot up, and there are 3 steps.

When I do the chkdsk in the disk managment window, there are 5 steps (I
believe), and the last one takes quite a while. I have had numerous
occasions, whrn a disk was reported as "Healthy" by Windows, on the 3 step
process, and in teh disk management window. But when I did the check in disk
management, the final step (5?) froze along the way, indicating that there
was some deep trouble that the 3 step chkdsk did not address. When this
occurs, the drive is either history, or possibly a long format will restore
it. So I figure it's worth the effort.

After doing a long format, I would run the drive and do the 5 step process
in Disk management. If that still locked up in step 5, the drive would be
discarded. If it went through OK, I will try to use it again.

I also see no problem formatting a hard drive outside of the machine it is
intended for, using another machine running the same XP Pro operating
system. Am I missing something here?

And, to try and resolve the logoff/crashesI've been having, I have numerous
times restored a previous image to the C drive. That resolved the issue, for
a short while, but then it returned. I am beginning to think that the drive
itself has problems. Restoring an image gets around them, for a while, but
then the problems with the drive start to impact things, and the shutdown
crashes start in again.

Based on this, it's improbable that even a full format may not solve my
issues, and the replacement drive stands a much better chance of fixing
things.

Ron
++++++++++++++++

I think that my C drive is having some issues, and I have a
replacement drive to use if indeed the drive itself is beyond
having a reformat resolve the issues. Before installing a new
drive, which I'll preformat outside of the machine in question,

Why would you attempting to 'pre-format a hard disk drive outisde of the
machine it will be used in'?

I'd like to take a shot at formatting the existing drive in place, and
then restore a current image of that drive via my True Image boot
CD.

A *current* image - or one where things were actually wotrking as you
expectec?

So I want to reformat my 400 GB C while it's in place in the
machine. If I boot up into Windows, and go to a command prompt, and
then key in "format c:" - will I then get a message stating that it
cannot do that while Windows is running, and will do so the next
time when I start a "bootup"

I don't think you got this - as far as I know, if you try to format the
system drive within windows - it just says you cannot. Nothing about next
boot.

, following which of course, it will
not boot up, as there will be nothing installed on the C drive. If
this will work, I could then boot up from the TI recovery CD, which
will run True Image from the CD, and allow me to restore an image
that I created before starting this whole process.

You can do that without ever formatting anything. TrueImage will gladly
overwrite anything and everything on whatever drive uyou decide to put in
there.

But can I format the C drive this way? I see no path to do the
format process in True Image ver 11 capabilities, or have I missed
this.

When using imaging software - it is the partitioning that matters - not
formatting. The 'format' is included in the partition image you are going
to apply to whatever drive. It is the partitioning that you must do (and is
already done if you have a working system.)

I know I can remove the drive, and format it via an external USB
connection to another machine, and then put it back in place. But
I'd like to avoid the added work to do it this way.

That would be as worthless now as the first part where you were going to
pre-format the new drive before putting it into the system. Just use a
Windows XP boot CD or a BartPE boot CD or a DOS boot diskette or a DOS boot
CD or a utility of your choice to boot up and clear the partitions and
create new ones if you want to be sure you have a clean slate to start with.

How about my Knoppix or Bart PE disks - are they a usable choice
also?

See above.

Research partitioning. Your image application will overwrite whatever
format you put on the system. You only need to make sure you have the
partitioning setup appropriately.

 

[Big Al]

Thanks, Al & Shenan, for your replies

To do a "regular" format, not a "quick" format takes about 90 minutes on a
new unformatted 400 GB hard drive.

I am not changing any partitions - there is only one on the disk. When
restoring a drive via a TI backup image, TI must simply do a "quick" format
before writing enverything back to the disk, since the restoration usually
take only 10-15 minutes. But I don't want that.

When I do a "chkdsk c: /F" in the run window, that happens the next time I
boot up, and there are 3 steps.

When I do the chkdsk in the disk managment window, there are 5 steps (I
believe), and the last one takes quite a while. I have had numerous
occasions, whrn a disk was reported as "Healthy" by Windows, on the 3 step
process, and in teh disk management window. But when I did the check in disk
management, the final step (5?) froze along the way, indicating that there
was some deep trouble that the 3 step chkdsk did not address. When this
occurs, the drive is either history, or possibly a long format will restore
it. So I figure it's worth the effort.

After doing a long format, I would run the drive and do the 5 step process
in Disk management. If that still locked up in step 5, the drive would be
discarded. If it went through OK, I will try to use it again.

I also see no problem formatting a hard drive outside of the machine it is
intended for, using another machine running the same XP Pro operating
system. Am I missing something here?

And, to try and resolve the logoff/crashesI've been having, I have numerous
times restored a previous image to the C drive. That resolved the issue, for
a short while, but then it returned. I am beginning to think that the drive
itself has problems. Restoring an image gets around them, for a while, but
then the problems with the drive start to impact things, and the shutdown
crashes start in again.

Based on this, it's improbable that even a full format may not solve my
issues, and the replacement drive stands a much better chance of fixing
things.

Ron
++++++++++++++++



Why would you attempting to 'pre-format a hard disk drive outisde of the
machine it will be used in'?


A *current* image - or one where things were actually wotrking as you
expectec?


I don't think you got this - as far as I know, if you try to format the
system drive within windows - it just says you cannot. Nothing about next
boot.


You can do that without ever formatting anything. TrueImage will gladly
overwrite anything and everything on whatever drive uyou decide to put in
there.


When using imaging software - it is the partitioning that matters - not
formatting. The 'format' is included in the partition image you are going
to apply to whatever drive. It is the partitioning that you must do (and is
already done if you have a working system.)


That would be as worthless now as the first part where you were going to
pre-format the new drive before putting it into the system. Just use a
Windows XP boot CD or a BartPE boot CD or a DOS boot diskette or a DOS boot
CD or a utility of your choice to boot up and clear the partitions and
create new ones if you want to be sure you have a clean slate to start with.


See above.

Research partitioning. Your image application will overwrite whatever
format you put on the system. You only need to make sure you have the
partitioning setup appropriately.

Newegg has SATA 250 gig drives for 59$, free shipping. I'm not sure
what you need but you have a point. At todays prices, its just about
brainless to not buy a new one.

It could be the controller on your motherboard corrupting data when it
reads and writes, but that's an off the wall thought. Unfortunately,
black box repair is about the only solution. You might get a test
utility from the manufacturer to run a drive test. I haven't seen a
marginal drive in so long I'm not used to doing more than R&R. They
normally die on me and its easy to know what to do.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

Thanks, Al & Shenan, for your replies

To do a "regular" format, not a "quick" format takes about 90
minutes on a new unformatted 400 GB hard drive.

True - but I cannot recall asking you to do either. Quick should be fine if
you know the drive is okay. Full should be done if you have doubts about
the drive itself.

I am not changing any partitions - there is only one on the disk.
When restoring a drive via a TI backup image, TI must simply do a
"quick" format before writing enverything back to the disk, since
the restoration usually take only 10-15 minutes. But I don't want
that.

That is a restoration process designed by the OEM - not a true imaging
process then (although it could be a full imaging process if very little was
originally on the drive.)

When I do a "chkdsk c: /F" in the run window, that happens the next
time I boot up, and there are 3 steps.

When I do the chkdsk in the disk managment window, there are 5
steps (I believe), and the last one takes quite a while. I have had
numerous occasions, whrn a disk was reported as "Healthy" by
Windows, on the 3 step process, and in teh disk management window.
But when I did the check in disk management, the final step (5?)
froze along the way, indicating that there was some deep trouble
that the 3 step chkdsk did not address. When this occurs, the drive
is either history, or possibly a long format will restore it. So I
figure it's worth the effort.

After doing a long format, I would run the drive and do the 5 step
process in Disk management. If that still locked up in step 5, the
drive would be discarded. If it went through OK, I will try to use
it again.

Better to use the actual hard disk drive manufacturer's free diagnostics and
low-level format utilities - IMO.

I also see no problem formatting a hard drive outside of the
machine it is intended for, using another machine running the same
XP Pro operating system. Am I missing something here?

Didn't say there was a problem with it - just seems like a waste of time and
effort. Putting the drive in the machine it is intended for and utilizing
the proper tools (included with a proper installation media for Windows XP)
you can do everything you would have done by addig extra steps and
connecting said drive to another machine in another way.

And, to try and resolve the logoff/crashesI've been having, I have
numerous times restored a previous image to the C drive. That
resolved the issue, for a short while, but then it returned. I am
beginning to think that the drive itself has problems. Restoring an
image gets around them, for a while, but then the problems with the
drive start to impact things, and the shutdown crashes start in
again.

Based on this, it's improbable that even a full format may not
solve my issues, and the replacement drive stands a much better
chance of fixing things.

Agreed.
Plus there is nothing keeping you from doing a two-fold test.

- Image the drive as it is now (problems and all.)
- Put the new drive in the machine and create a partition and apply the
image you made.

Same problems?

- Restore the drive using whatever the machine manufacturer gave you.

Same problems later?

Investigate what *you* may be doing/not doing that could be causing this
issue or look into other hardware possibilities (motherboard, memory,
power...)

 

[Big Al]

Oh my!.... <running off to Newegg to fill my last internal slot>

http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemai...mc=EMC-IGNEFL042208-_-email-_-E0E-_-Moredeals

 

[Shenan Stanley]

Newegg has SATA 250 gig drives for 59$, free shipping. I'm not
sure what you need but you have a point. At todays prices, its
just about brainless to not buy a new one.

Oh my!.... <running off to Newegg to fill my last internal slot>

http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemai...mc=EMC-IGNEFL042208-_-email-_-E0E-_-Moredeals

http://www.dealsites.net/

 

[Big Al]

STOP THIS NOW!!!!!! <g>

How much is left on the credit card..... LOL!

 

[Ghostrider]

I think that my C drive is having some issues, and I have a replacement
drive to use if indeed the drive itself is beyond having a reformat resolve
the issues. Before installing a new drive, which I'll preformat outside of
the machine in question, I'd like to take a shot at formatting the existing
drive in place, and then restore a current image of that drive via my True
Image boot CD.

So I want to reformat my 400 GB C while it's in place in the machine. If I
boot up into Windows, and go to a command prompt, and then key in "format
c:" - will I then get a message staing that it cannot do that while Windows
is running, and will do so the next time when I start a "bootup", following
which of course, it will not boot up, as there will be nothing installed on
the C drive. If this will work, I could then boot up from the TI recovery
CD, which will run True Image from the CD, and allow me to restore an image
that I created before starting this whole process.

But can I format the C drive this way? I see no path to do the format
process in True Image ver 11 capabilities, or have I missed this.

I know I can remove the drive, and format it via an external USB connection
to another machine, and then put it back in place. But I'd like to avoid the
added work to do it this way.

How about my Knoppix or Bart PE disks - are they a usable choice also?

Ron Hirsch

One thought that comes to mind is that this is a lot of extra work
just to clone a hard drive, especially with TrueImage. TrueImage
has a "Clone" option. Our method has been to insert the new hard
drive into a suitable external USB or firewire enclosure or even a
HD "dock", select it as the target and let TrueImage do all of the
work.

 

[Nonny]

How much is left on the credit card..... LOL!

WHICH ONE!!!???? <VBG>

 

[Lil' Dave]

I think that my C drive is having some issues, and I have a replacement
drive to use if indeed the drive itself is beyond having a reformat
resolve
the issues. Before installing a new drive, which I'll preformat outside of
the machine in question, I'd like to take a shot at formatting the
existing
drive in place, and then restore a current image of that drive via my True
Image boot CD.

So I want to reformat my 400 GB C while it's in place in the machine. If I
boot up into Windows, and go to a command prompt, and then key in "format
c:" - will I then get a message staing that it cannot do that while
Windows
is running, and will do so the next time when I start a "bootup",
following
which of course, it will not boot up, as there will be nothing installed
on
the C drive. If this will work, I could then boot up from the TI recovery
CD, which will run True Image from the CD, and allow me to restore an
image
that I created before starting this whole process.

But can I format the C drive this way? I see no path to do the format
process in True Image ver 11 capabilities, or have I missed this.

I know I can remove the drive, and format it via an external USB
connection
to another machine, and then put it back in place. But I'd like to avoid
the
added work to do it this way.

How about my Knoppix or Bart PE disks - are they a usable choice also?

Ron Hirsch

What are you fishing for?

Use the HD manufacturer's utility to write zeroes to the drive. Restore the
image to the drive afterwards...

All the other stuff is a waste of time...

--
Dave

Hypocrisy. Big SUV, filament lights on all night. You think your neighbor
should be changiing to compact fluorescent light bulbs and driving the
hybrid.

 

[Ron Hirsch]

Al,

That's the new HD I ordered from NewEgg yesterday. Can't beat the price

Ron

 

[Ron Hirsch]

Thanks for reminding me about the clone option.

I had forgotten about it.

Ron


One thought that comes to mind is that this is a lot of extra work
just to clone a hard drive, especially with TrueImage. TrueImage
has a "Clone" option. Our method has been to insert the new hard
drive into a suitable external USB or firewire enclosure or even a
HD "dock", select it as the target and let TrueImage do all of the
work.

 

[Ron Hirsch]

Shenan,

Thanks for reminding me about the manufacturers's diagnostic and "repair"
utilities. That should give me a much better picture of what is going on.

I went to the WD site, and downloaded it just now. It should be far better
than trying to diagnose via the Windows utilities.

After all the "playing around" I've done in past months, I feel pretty sure
that the weird issues I've been having are related to my C: drive. If the WD
tools confirm that, I can attempt a repair. If that fails, I will clone the
drive in TrueImage, and swap the drive out. Hopefully, if there any "issues"
remaining on the drive's contents, they can probably re fixed by suitable
reinstalls/repairs, etc.. And with a fresh drive, such fixes should stay
fixed. Right now, whenever I do a "fix" it doesn't stay fixed.

Good show -

Ron Hirsch

++++++++++++++++++++++