Recommendation for a P-3 motherboard with ECC and AGP4x or 8x?

[Brooks Moses]

I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard in my computer, and I'm looking
for some suggestions. The "problem" is that this is an older system,
and so I'm having some trouble finding good recommendations that apply
the the right era of hardware.

The system, as it stands, looks like this:

Tyan T1837 Thunderbolt motherboard.
Pentium-III 1100MHz processor (in a socket-370-to-slot-1 adaptor)
1.5 GB of PC133 ECC memory
Matrox G550 video card
3Com ISA-bus modem

I'm completely satisfied with it, except for one thing: I just got an
old Apple Cinema Display with 1600x1024 resolution, and the G550 doesn't
go that high on the digital output. So I bought a Matrox P650, which
supports that -- but it's AGP 4x/8x, and the T1837 only supports AGP 2x.

Thus, I'm looking for a motherboard upgrade that will let me use all the
rest of my existing components, but will support the P650. In
particular, I want something that will properly support the ECC memory,
rather than just using it as if it's non-ECC.

Any recommendations? (Is there even such a thing as a motherboard that
supports a P3, ECC PC-133 memory, and AGP-8x?)

Thanks much!
- Brooks

 

[Paul]

I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard in my computer, and I'm looking
for some suggestions. The "problem" is that this is an older system,
and so I'm having some trouble finding good recommendations that apply
the the right era of hardware.

The system, as it stands, looks like this:

Tyan T1837 Thunderbolt motherboard.
Pentium-III 1100MHz processor (in a socket-370-to-slot-1 adaptor)
1.5 GB of PC133 ECC memory
Matrox G550 video card
3Com ISA-bus modem

I'm completely satisfied with it, except for one thing: I just got an
old Apple Cinema Display with 1600x1024 resolution, and the G550 doesn't
go that high on the digital output. So I bought a Matrox P650, which
supports that -- but it's AGP 4x/8x, and the T1837 only supports AGP 2x.

Thus, I'm looking for a motherboard upgrade that will let me use all the
rest of my existing components, but will support the P650. In
particular, I want something that will properly support the ECC memory,
rather than just using it as if it's non-ECC.

Any recommendations? (Is there even such a thing as a motherboard that
supports a P3, ECC PC-133 memory, and AGP-8x?)

Thanks much!
- Brooks

Your motherboard could be the S1837.
http://www.tyan.com/archive/products/html/thunderbolt.html

My TUV4X spare motherboard, comes pretty close. But it doesn't support
ECC. You may find choices that support ECC (but not 1.5GB of memory),
or boards that support 1.5GB of memory (but not ECC).

I'd be tempted to solve it with another graphics card.
For AGP info, you can try here:

http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html

Your motherboard uses either 440GX or 440BX, either of which is
an "AGP 3.3V Motherboard". The "Practical Motherboard And Card Compatibility"
table lists "Universal AGP 3.0 Card" as a modern, universally compatible
video card type to try to use.

For example, I have an FX5200, normally listed as an AGP 4X/8X card.
But I can plug it into my 440BX board and it works fine. (By comparison,
my ATI 9800Pro, which should work, only gives me missing video beeps.
The connector on the ATI card, does fit the video slot.)

I've actually tried two different models of FX5200, and both worked.

The FX5200 does have a VGA and a DVI-I connector (some only DVI-D), but
the problem is the maximum resolution. Some Nvidia GPUs had problems with
the ability to run the DVI link at full speed (165MHz ?). Thus, Nvidia has
to limit the resolution selections possible, to try to make their customers
happy. It wouldn't do, to run the interface at 165MHz, and have colored
"snow" on the screen of a DVI equipped monitor.

One product page listed 1600x1200 max digital for FX5200. A comment from a
Newegg review stated they could only get 1280x1024, but that could
be finger problems. It helps a lot, if the monitor is equipped with
a proper EDID (serial interface EEPROM on the monitor containing resolution
info). Alternately, a "monitor driver", which declares the resolution,
is another potential solution. Apple probably has no reason
to provide a monitor driver for PCs.

http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=128-P1-N309-LX&family=13

Another card in the Playtool list is the 9250 from ATI. I would have to
track down some manufacturer who lists the DVI resolutions, to determine
whether that is an alternative or not. It is pretty difficult to find
a competent manufacturer, who gives a proper spec listing on their
web site. You can track the "Partners" list from ATI or Nvidia, to
find all the different manufacturers of cards for them. At least
some of the partners, could be considered country bumpkins, only
capable of xeroxing reference designs.

More modern cards, use PCI Express GPU chips, and include a bridge
chip, to convert from AGP to PCI Express protocol. Rialto is the chip
on ATI cards. HSI is the chip on Nvidia cards. Both appear to me, to be
limited to 1.5V operation, meaning the keys in the AGP slot of the
motherboard should prevent either brand of card from fitting your
machine. In checking today, I did see a card, which *could* be using
a Rialto, which had both slots cut (1.5V and 3.3V). Which implies it
could be used in your motherboard. But I suspect this is just a mistake,
as I cannot imagine them suddenly making a 3.3V version of bridge chip.
The card is question is an X1050, which is just a rebadged X550 (they're
just reusing a previous generation GPU).

So there are possibilities on the video card front, as long as you
don't expect DirectX 9 and Shader Model 3, which is gamer stuff.

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/

If you are still intent on going the motherboard upgrade route,
I would find another computer first. Remove the video card driver.
Remove the old video card. Install the P650. Install the P650
driver. Connect the Apple display. Try to get the desired
resolution. If you cannot get the desired results, reverse the
order, remove the P650 driver, pull the P650 etc. If the P650
combo with the Cinema display won't do as it is told, while in
another AGP computer, there is no sense swapping motherboards so
you can use the P650.

Odd resolutions can be a pain. Powerstrip from Entechtaiwan.com
is a tool for setting custom resolutions, and it primarily supports
ATI and Nvidia cards. If you use an Nvidia card, they have a custom
resolution dialog box you can experiment with, in their control panel.
The Nvidia driver may try to enforce whatever limit it feels like,
based on EDID or monitor driver info. For ATI card usage, I'm not aware
of an equivalent custom resolution dialog, and in the worst case,
Powerstrip can fix it. Entechtaiwan has a forum, with FAQ pages
containing more information.

This page gives some experiences of someone working with a
display with above normal resolution, and will give you
more background.

http://www.geocities.com/jgeneedid/

So finding a "Universal AGP 3.0 Card" that has DVI and supports the
resolution, is an alternative solution to replacing the motherboard.

If you want to go motherboard hunting, have a look here:

http://www.motherboards.org/mobot/index.html

Paul

 

[Eric]

I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard in my computer, and I'm looking
for some suggestions. The "problem" is that this is an older system, and
so I'm having some trouble finding good recommendations that apply the the
right era of hardware.

The system, as it stands, looks like this:

Tyan T1837 Thunderbolt motherboard.
Pentium-III 1100MHz processor (in a socket-370-to-slot-1 adaptor)
1.5 GB of PC133 ECC memory
Matrox G550 video card
3Com ISA-bus modem

I'm completely satisfied with it, except for one thing: I just got an old
Apple Cinema Display with 1600x1024 resolution, and the G550 doesn't go
that high on the digital output. So I bought a Matrox P650, which
supports that -- but it's AGP 4x/8x, and the T1837 only supports AGP 2x.

Thus, I'm looking for a motherboard upgrade that will let me use all the
rest of my existing components, but will support the P650. In particular,
I want something that will properly support the ECC memory, rather than
just using it as if it's non-ECC.

Any recommendations? (Is there even such a thing as a motherboard that
supports a P3, ECC PC-133 memory, and AGP-8x?)

Thanks much!
- Brooks

Hi,

I have a few dual P3's still cooking here. Built a number of them back in
the day, using mainly Supermicro m/b's and occassionally IBM.

Offhand I can't think/remember a specific P3 m/b with ECC (most were "server
boards") and also AGP 4X+. I'm sure you already exhausted Google and thats
why you are asking here.

Didn't look at any pics or specs, but I take it that the Matrox P650 simply
doesn't support AGP 2X. It probably doesn't even physically fit in the slot
because it isn't keyed for AGP 2X? I had a similiar situation to that,
where not long ago, I wanted to "upgrade" the video card for one of my old
dual P3's. (Supermicro P6DBU, AGP 2X). Likewise, I wanted DVI out.
After googling and reading to figure out the "best" older video card that
would work with it, I picked up a Radeon 9700 Pro off of Ebay. The Radeon
9700 Pro is physically keyed to work from 1X to 8X. It was the last card
by AGP video card made by ATI to support AGP 1/2X. I've been happy with
it. It is doing all I wanted it to do and was dirt cheap. If you want to
spend a little more and have some a few other "gee-wiz" things to play with,
you could even look for a Radeon 9700 Pro All-In-Wonder.

Since all you are likely wanted to push out, video-wise, on the 'ol P3 is
2D, another idea is maybe get a new m/b not so much for video but for
dual-CPU. You can find a dual-P3 370 "server" m/b, with ECC support, SCSI,
etc for dirt cheap. Match the CPU carefully, find a cheap U2W/U3W SCSI HDD
just to put the OS on (can find them still unused for cheap these days), and
it'll make for a nice, rock-stable, 'ol machine. As for video, since it is
just mainly 2D, a cheap PCI card with DVI out is all you need. I have
something exactly like this running on an IBM L440GX+ (2x1Ghz) in this room.
It is running FreeBSD and is rock-solid stable.

 

[Bob Day]

Check out the ASUS CUV4X or the MSI 694T Pro.

-- Bob Day
http://bobday.vze.com

 

[Brooks Moses]

Your motherboard could be the S1837.
http://www.tyan.com/archive/products/html/thunderbolt.html

Yes, that's the one I meant. I was going from memory, and misremembered
the initial letter.

I'd be tempted to solve it with another graphics card.

[snip detailed advice]

Thanks -- I hadn't considered that, but perhaps should have. Graphics
cards are a little cheaper than motherboards.

If you are still intent on going the motherboard upgrade route,
I would find another computer first. Remove the video card driver.
Remove the old video card. Install the P650. Install the P650
driver. Connect the Apple display. Try to get the desired
resolution. If you cannot get the desired results, reverse the
order, remove the P650 driver, pull the P650 etc. If the P650
combo with the Cinema display won't do as it is told, while in
another AGP computer, there is no sense swapping motherboards so
you can use the P650.

I have done that; it seems to work quite nicely. At least, it works
quite nicely as a secondary monitor; as a primary monitor, there's the
usual annoyance that the Cinema display doesn't support what the PC puts
out when it's in "text mode" before Windows finishes booting.

And, interestingly enough, the Cinema display does have whatever is
needed to tell Windows what kind of display it is and that the only
resolution it supports is 1600x1024.

Thanks again!
- Brooks

 

[Brooks Moses]

Offhand I can't think/remember a specific P3 m/b with ECC (most were "server
boards") and also AGP 4X+. I'm sure you already exhausted Google and thats
why you are asking here.

I had pretty much exhausted it, yeah. Though I did put Bob Day's
suggestions into Google and found some old Tom's Hardware review, and
found a couple more that way. (Thanks, Bob, for the suggestions!)

Didn't look at any pics or specs, but I take it that the Matrox P650 simply
doesn't support AGP 2X. It probably doesn't even physically fit in the slot
because it isn't keyed for AGP 2X? I had a similiar situation to that,
where not long ago, I wanted to "upgrade" the video card for one of my old
dual P3's. (Supermicro P6DBU, AGP 2X). Likewise, I wanted DVI out.
After googling and reading to figure out the "best" older video card that
would work with it, I picked up a Radeon 9700 Pro off of Ebay. The Radeon
9700 Pro is physically keyed to work from 1X to 8X. It was the last card
by AGP video card made by ATI to support AGP 1/2X. I've been happy with
it. It is doing all I wanted it to do and was dirt cheap. If you want to
spend a little more and have some a few other "gee-wiz" things to play with,
you could even look for a Radeon 9700 Pro All-In-Wonder.

Hmm. That sounds like a good idea, except that a bit of brief looking
indicates that it only has a single DVI output, right? I entirely
forgot to mention that a large part of why I wanted the P650 is the
double-DVI output.

Thanks!
- Brooks