Rebates

[John]

Im having troubles with some - since about the beginning of this year
they seem to have gotten a lot worse at many firms.

Fuji - I got the first few rebates so quickly and painlessly I went on
a Fuji buying jag the last year and a half. Especially with the buzz
about phasing out all the Made in Japan CDRs which are assumed to be
"better". Actually they phased them out already even at Fuji so theres
no real reason to buy them anymore. Anyway I bought about 1500 I think
and I still have about 400-500 left. I could have easily bought 500
more the last 6 months on various rebate deals.

Anyway - the rebates have royally sucked since the first few.
I didnt get any of the 18 or so owed to me until I complained to
them and on the net. Then strangely Ive been getting dribs and
drabs. You are supposed to 3x$6 usually for most sales. Theyve
sent me ONE $6 rebate and then nothing. Then Ill complain again
and I get another $6 one 6 months later which had a wrong address!
It was corrected and eventually made it to me. Since then I havent
got anything. So $100-200 worth of rebates - Ive kissed them off.
Never going to buy Fuji again.


Canon - printer. I went for the incredible deal $50 off a i470d.
This place is either the most incompetent rebate center or
the mail keeps getting lost on the way. I sent my originals
2 months ago. They claim they never got it. So I send copies
to the same place they tell me to send it - over again.
I ask if they received it two weeks later. NOPE. No sign
of ever getting it they claim. Come on ! Twice in a row???
Send another copy !


Kingston memory. I called the rebate center and Kingston to make sure
I had all the docs. I send the UPC scanning label around the plastic
case. This is the same thing I always send in for past Kingston deals.
They claim thats not the UPC symbol ! So I sent them the rest of the
sticky band just to make sure. This is memory i ordered directly from
KINGSTON witha rebate offered directly from them ! They have records
showing I bought it . Come on ! I have feeling they are going to
reject this too.


The KBYTE memory - after hearing lots of negative feedback on FRYs and
KBYTE mem - I think all the bad comments got to them. FRYs supposedly
made an announement that they would back up any unpaid rebates as long
as they were proper of course and I got my rebate very quickly -
unlike the KINGSTON rebate. You cant trust ANY company though since
Ive had great experience for a few and then theyll suck royally. Right
now though Kbyte through Frys seems fine.


So far my experience with EASIER REBATES - the optional payment
company that deals with Office max is great. They pay very quickly and
are reliable. If you get any office max stuff - go through them online
if you can - cause its way better. I filed recently for some CDRs (the
second one through Easier rebates) - the postmark deadline was the
same for it and the western digital HD I bought. Easier rebates not
only Oked it but paid me already. Office Maxes Western Digital rebate
on the otherhand which was mailed by me on the sameday and had the
same postmark deadline was rejected !

So out of the recent batch of rebates Im fighting about 70% of the
ones in the last few months that are getting rejected . I better get
that Canon and Kingston rebate thats for sure. As for HDs - Im
sticking with Compusa - which has NEVER rejected a HD deal yet.
Im sick of fighting for 60% of the rebates I get from Office max.

Still waiting to see if I get a $100 Philips HDTV rebate I sent in.
Philips did come through in the past on a burner rebate but they took
a very long time - 7 months.

 

[J. Yazel]

Im having troubles with some - since about the beginning of this year
they seem to have gotten a lot worse at many firms.

Fuji - I got the first few rebates so quickly and painlessly I went on
a Fuji buying jag the last year and a half. Especially with the buzz
about phasing out all the Made in Japan CDRs which are assumed to be
"better". Actually they phased them out already even at Fuji so theres
no real reason to buy them anymore. Anyway I bought about 1500 I think
and I still have about 400-500 left. I could have easily bought 500
=========== SNIP ============

I've been having similar problems (although not in the same magnitude).

About 9 months ago I bought an HP Deskjet printer ($20 rebate). After a few
months they claimed I didn't have the rebate requiremnts correct. I did
have everything according to the rebate form.

Hoever, I copied everything exactly as there letter spelled out and sent
it to them.

As of today, they haven't responded.

I also recently purchased a swivel chair from an office supply store and
there was a $40 rebate on it. I discovered that the rebate form did not
include my model of chair. The store manager wasn't interested.
I reported the problem to the Better Business Bureau and just received
a rebate check from the company.

Have you tried your local, state and federal trade commisions for help?

Jack

 

[ECM]

Well, I'm now to the point that I won't buy anything with a rebate tag
- I figure if they REALLY wanted to sell it at that price, they'd just
mark it down. I'm forcing myself to look past the rebate tag, to the
REAL cost of the item, and basing my decisions on that price - the
rebates are really just a marketing scam.

I've had terrifically lousy luck with rebates over the last 2-3 years;
I figure that there's about $500 outstanding (out of maybe $750 total)
- and I know for a fact that I'll never see a dime. I have photocopies
of at least 10 rebate applications that were never even acknowledged;
another 10 that were refused for a variety of reasons, none of them
even remotely true. I tried initially to chase the companies down, but
I soon realized that if I got an initial refusal or was initially
ignored, they had no intention of paying the money in the first place,
and I wasn't going to get it no matter what. On top of that, I have to
add my time wasted filling out forms and cutting bits from boxes and
phoning often non-existant companies - my time is pretty valuable to
me.

That being said, I still occasionally buy stuff that happens to have a
rebate - like my recent Zire 71 purchase; I got a free program and a
free "audio kit" through the mail; no hassles, no problems. I bought a
HDD that happened to have a couple of rebates - the OfficeMax rebate
was refused, but the manufacturer's rebate came in a couple of weeks.
The price, though, was good BEFORE the rebates, otherwise I wouldn't
have touched it.

I wonder how long it's going to be before the lawyers get their claws
into this, and start suing companies for not honoring rebates?.......

ECM

 

[Andy]

Im having troubles with some - since about the beginning of this year
they seem to have gotten a lot worse at many firms.


Kingston memory. I called the rebate center and Kingston to make sure
I had all the docs. I send the UPC scanning label around the plastic
case. This is the same thing I always send in for past Kingston deals.
They claim thats not the UPC symbol ! So I sent them the rest of the
sticky band just to make sure. This is memory i ordered directly from
KINGSTON witha rebate offered directly from them ! They have records
showing I bought it . Come on ! I have feeling they are going to
reject this too.

The UPC is on the box; there are 12 numbers printed below the bar
code.

 

[John]

The UPC is on the box; there are 12 numbers printed below the bar
code.

Yeah the retail Kingston I bought for a neighbor at CC has a box -
this didnt. It was a plastic enclosure inside a shipping box that was
just the usual generic brown box.

 

[John]

I've been having similar problems (although not in the same magnitude).

About 9 months ago I bought an HP Deskjet printer ($20 rebate). After a few
months they claimed I didn't have the rebate requiremnts correct. I did
have everything according to the rebate form.

Hoever, I copied everything exactly as there letter spelled out and sent
it to them.

As of today, they haven't responded.

I also recently purchased a swivel chair from an office supply store and
there was a $40 rebate on it. I discovered that the rebate form did not
include my model of chair. The store manager wasn't interested.
I reported the problem to the Better Business Bureau and just received
a rebate check from the company.

Have you tried your local, state and federal trade commisions for help?

Ive threatened to several times on other things to good effect.

Actually rebates almost always come through - its just recently you
really really really have to work for them. You know arguing , calling
, resubmitting over and over. Thats what irks me.

You will end up getting them - overall Im glad they are around since
you wouldnt get anywhere near the deals without them but do they have
to purposely screw you around for so many of them nowadays? Sheesh.

If you are willing to *work* for deals you can get them. I got 3
subscriptions to mags - TV guide, TIME and Fast Company for $6 total
for the year. But I had to threaten to report some firm to the BBB
after they offered the deal and charged me. It worked and I got mags a
week later.

The HDTV was also a killer deal - though its only a 4:3 27" it was
only $449 AR - about the same as regular TV thats even halfway decent
- you know EDTV level.

 

[George]

Rebates are just a dishonest way of doing business. My normal mode of
operation now when a rebate is involved is that I submit it and immediately
copy the Attorney General of my state. When I enquire about it, I cc the
Attorney General. I've done this on EVERY correspondence and find it
amazing that lately I've been getting my rebates albeit beyond the period of
time they state on the forms.

Just keep cc'ing the Attorney General with your problems (to show them that
this is a deliberate pattern) and maybe some more corporate crooks will wind
up in a pinstripe country club.

 

[Nick]

For what it's worth, in the UK we very rarely get rebates available on
anything. And to be honest I don't really understand why you would.

If they want the item to be cheap, then drop the price. If they want people
to register their purchase, then give a guarantee which has to be registered
with the company.

As far as I can see the only benefit of the rebate scam, is that it means
companies can charge over the odds for anything they want, and people will
buy it anyway. The rebate will bring it back into line with the price of
honestly priced competitors, but the manufacturer will rely on the fact that
people are lazy and forgetful so wont send in the rebate form. Even if they
do, then the company will point to some rubbish in the terms of the rebate
and not pay out.

All this means is that the rebating company will make more money than they
deserve to. On the other hand stores might do it as a loss leader to
encourage people to come into the store and hope that they'll buy other
stuff too.

But, like someone said in the thread, it's not an honest way of doing
business. Beyond that it's anti-competitive.

Just my opinion,

Nick

 

[John]

For what it's worth, in the UK we very rarely get rebates available on
anything. And to be honest I don't really understand why you would.

If they want the item to be cheap, then drop the price. If they want people
to register their purchase, then give a guarantee which has to be registered
with the company.

As far as I can see the only benefit of the rebate scam, is that it means
companies can charge over the odds for anything they want, and people will
buy it anyway. The rebate will bring it back into line with the price of
honestly priced competitors, but the manufacturer will rely on the fact that
people are lazy and forgetful so wont send in the rebate form. Even if they
do, then the company will point to some rubbish in the terms of the rebate
and not pay out.

All this means is that the rebating company will make more money than they
deserve to. On the other hand stores might do it as a loss leader to
encourage people to come into the store and hope that they'll buy other
stuff too.

Yeah its both.

They use them as loss leaders to drive traffic into the store hoping
theyll buy other stuff and create excitement , hype - about the
store. Most of the places are pretty boring office supplies stores and
there are lots of electronic chains now competing for the same
business. Add in the fact that the economy was in the down part of a
business cycle and the stores Im talking about in the past - were
totally uncompetitive - there used to be laughably high prices vs. the
mom and pop stores that survived in niches.

They also obviously depend on a large number not sending them in at
all or getting disqualified.


The old era of super high prices at retail chains for dufuses and
mom and pop stores selling certain things at lower prices changed in
the 90s. A large part of ot was the hype over the net I think. There
was that hype about brick and mortar stores being a thing of the past
and how the net would demolish retailing as we know it. That scared
the bejezus out of them and made them compete and of course with
globalization - particularly the massive inports from chinese
suppliers worked hand in glove with the net hype and the
commoditization of the PC and tech mkts with prices nosediving which
made free after rebate deals feasible.

Like you say sometimes the retail prices used to be jacked up for
rebates so youd get ripped off royally if you didnt get the rebates
but thats not that common anymore. Its usually regular retail price ,
a mediocre price for sure - but with the rebates its literally 30-80%
off or FREE. So if you can get the rebate - its fantastic. The
problem now is keeping track of it all - many firms after getting
complaints tend to lengthen the rebate deadlines and be a lot more
flexible but in general recently theyve really sucked. However you
WILL get most of them if you are willing to hassle it. Sometimes it
can be a real HASSLE though.

 

[CBFalconer]

.... snip ...

As far as I can see the only benefit of the rebate scam, is that
it means companies can charge over the odds for anything they
want, and people will buy it anyway. The rebate will bring it
back into line with the price of honestly priced competitors,
but the manufacturer will rely on the fact that people are lazy
and forgetful so wont send in the rebate form. Even if they do,
then the company will point to some rubbish in the terms of the
rebate and not pay out.

All this means is that the rebating company will make more
money than they deserve to. On the other hand stores might do
it as a loss leader to encourage people to come into the store
and hope that they'll buy other stuff too.

You've got it. The ads generally give the price after rebate,
with some small print. With any luck it will go the way of green
stamps bye and bye. There's a sucker born every minute.

 

[kony]

For what it's worth, in the UK we very rarely get rebates available on
anything. And to be honest I don't really understand why you would.

If they want the item to be cheap, then drop the price. If they want people
to register their purchase, then give a guarantee which has to be registered
with the company.

As far as I can see the only benefit of the rebate scam, is that it means
companies can charge over the odds for anything they want, and people will
buy it anyway. The rebate will bring it back into line with the price of
honestly priced competitors, but the manufacturer will rely on the fact that
people are lazy and forgetful so wont send in the rebate form. Even if they
do, then the company will point to some rubbish in the terms of the rebate
and not pay out.

All this means is that the rebating company will make more money than they
deserve to. On the other hand stores might do it as a loss leader to
encourage people to come into the store and hope that they'll buy other
stuff too.

But, like someone said in the thread, it's not an honest way of doing
business. Beyond that it's anti-competitive.

Often it seems they simply have a factory set up with a manufacturing
capacity greater than demand. Someone does the math and determines that
keeping the current production going and dumping product in the US will be
more profitable than retooling and reinvesting in the NEXT product,
providing enough people don't receive their rebate (for whatever reason).
The US west coast is simply a bit closer to ship port-to-port, and have a
distribution infrastructure and huge market available.

 

[Nick]

a mediocre price for sure - but with the rebates its literally 30-80%
off or FREE. So if you can get the rebate - its fantastic. The

You're serious? You can get stuff for free after the rebate? Defintitely a
con. But, shit, I want a part of the rebate....

Jealous of you american a**holes,

Nick

 

[kony]

You're serious? You can get stuff for free after the rebate? Defintitely a
con. But, shit, I want a part of the rebate....

Jealous of you american a**holes,

LOL, it wasn't too long ago that we were actually being PAID (after
rebates) to haul off the stuff. That is, if the buyer knew when rebates
overlapped or kept an eye out for stores offering unrelated simultaneous
dollars-off coupons.

 

[Nick]

LOL, it wasn't too long ago that we were actually being PAID (after
rebates) to haul off the stuff. That is, if the buyer knew when rebates
overlapped or kept an eye out for stores offering unrelated simultaneous

dollars-off coupons.

Oh the overwhelming urge to nuke the lot of you...

Must have been so hard for the retailers to store all that merchandise. They
just *had* to get rid of it by paying people to take it away. The strain on
the shopping trolleys must have been immense.

 

[kony]

Oh the overwhelming urge to nuke the lot of you...

Must have been so hard for the retailers to store all that merchandise. They
just *had* to get rid of it by paying people to take it away. The strain on
the shopping trolleys must have been immense.

Often they'd put up a rack or table and pile the stuff onto it... The
regular store display for an item was only scavenged once the tables were
empty... people'd line up before the store opened and nearly trample each
other trying to get inside faster. You certainly couldn't expect to get
there an hour after the stores opened and get some items, though the most
effective shoppers found ways of getting the deals online or by call-in,
avoiding the mobs. Then the rebates became even more common (and perhaps
the rebate shoppers had already found the gear they needed) so the people
returned to the pseudo-civilized state they're in today.

 

[George]

Often it seems they simply have a factory set up with a manufacturing
capacity greater than demand. Someone does the math and determines that
keeping the current production going and dumping product in the US will be
more profitable than retooling and reinvesting in the NEXT product,
providing enough people don't receive their rebate (for whatever reason).
The US west coast is simply a bit closer to ship port-to-port, and have a
distribution infrastructure and huge <<<INSERT TEXT HERE>>> market available.

You forgot "affluent, naive, and gadget-loving" above.

But, it probably isn't their fault as what can you do when a $140k a year
salary buys you a lifestyle (in terms of home ownership and quality of life)
equal to a burger-slinger elsewhere? I used to have a boss there who was
from Hong Kong and he once told me it was like that there...people buying
$500 pens because the housing was out of reach.

 

[kony]

You forgot "affluent, naive, and gadget-loving" above.

But, it probably isn't their fault as what can you do when a $140k a year
salary buys you a lifestyle (in terms of home ownership and quality of life)
equal to a burger-slinger elsewhere? I used to have a boss there who was
from Hong Kong and he once told me it was like that there...people buying
$500 pens because the housing was out of reach.

I doubt it's that easy to accurately stereotype an entire diverse nation
predominantly made up of immigrants. That being the case, the only thing
we might be able to conclude is that their ancestors were more likely to
migrate long distances, and that the amount of open space available has a
profound impact on lifestyle and cultural development.

 

[John]

LOL, it wasn't too long ago that we were actually being PAID (after
rebates) to haul off the stuff. That is, if the buyer knew when rebates
overlapped or kept an eye out for stores offering unrelated simultaneous
dollars-off coupons.

Ive never been that aggressive. A lot of those deals are a bit
questionable though many hardcore dealhounds seem to get away with
them - using ambiguous duplicate rebate offers , stacking coupons and
doing a lot of aggressive price matching. I tried that once at the
local Compusa after someone talked me into it and boy did I feel
humliated after they screwed around - anything to get out of the price
matching deal. And this was a legit one - merely price matching to a
Office depot ad not a net ad or trying to talk them into matching a
price net rebate ad. Some people really have balls though and try
anything. Id never buy sale items the day before and then return them
on sales day and buy them on the spot either. Too squeamish.

As for regular sales - this area was IDEAL until the last few months.
Big piles of inventory on sales day and not a huge amount of buyers -
sure there was a bit of a frenzy atmosphere but I always got anything
I wanted if I even tried to get there an hour before it opened. The
last few months - theyve been much poorer about stocking inventory
(Office Max) and not offering the most of the best deals tantalizingly
mentioned at the deal sites though its improving the last month or so
again. I generally did get all the FREEBIE + net coupon deals that
lowered $300 or so worth of items to $30 or something regularly but
later was very frustrated when my killer deals often fell apart due to
rebate rejections here and there on every single total purchase which
radically changed the net cost.

Then they started doing the exclusions on tech items for coupons ,
eliminating the hottest deal items locally , excluding many of the
items on the website for my region and then hassling me with the
rebates. Its still worth it as long as I dont do that indiscriminate
mass buying of $200-300 stuff every week or two thinking itll cost me
$10-20 . The complexity and hassles of fixing rejected rebates on that
level is just too much. I have to limit it to a few things and fight
to get all my rebates now.

 

[kony]

Ive never been that aggressive. A lot of those deals are a bit
questionable though many hardcore dealhounds seem to get away with
them - using ambiguous duplicate rebate offers , stacking coupons and
doing a lot of aggressive price matching. I tried that once at the
local Compusa after someone talked me into it and boy did I feel
humliated after they screwed around - anything to get out of the price
matching deal. And this was a legit one - merely price matching to a
Office depot ad not a net ad or trying to talk them into matching a
price net rebate ad. Some people really have balls though and try
anything. Id never buy sale items the day before and then return them
on sales day and buy them on the spot either. Too squeamish.

I never wanted to buy ahead of time, taking items back and seldom did
pricematches unless the price difference was substantial. I didn't
necessarily expect everything to be FAR though, just kept an eye out for
good deals when they happened.

As for regular sales - this area was IDEAL until the last few months.
Big piles of inventory on sales day and not a huge amount of buyers -
sure there was a bit of a frenzy atmosphere but I always got anything
I wanted if I even tried to get there an hour before it opened. The
last few months - theyve been much poorer about stocking inventory
(Office Max) and not offering the most of the best deals tantalizingly
mentioned at the deal sites though its improving the last month or so
again. I generally did get all the FREEBIE + net coupon deals that
lowered $300 or so worth of items to $30 or something regularly but
later was very frustrated when my killer deals often fell apart due to
rebate rejections here and there on every single total purchase which
radically changed the net cost.

Yep, there was a marked reduction in good deals a few months ago, Staples
and Office Depot started making coupons harder to acquire and use, and
Officemax never was one of my favorites.

Then they started doing the exclusions on tech items for coupons ,
eliminating the hottest deal items locally , excluding many of the
items on the website for my region and then hassling me with the
rebates. Its still worth it as long as I dont do that indiscriminate
mass buying of $200-300 stuff every week or two thinking itll cost me
$10-20 . The complexity and hassles of fixing rejected rebates on that
level is just too much. I have to limit it to a few things and fight
to get all my rebates now.

I kept track of most rebates and never had much problem with them with the
notable exception of TCA, New Rochelle, NY... had a couple that they
REALLY didn't want to fulfill, claimed they kept losing faxes and such...
after a certain point I just started faxing them ahead of time. Biggest
thing for me was just keeping track of rebates on a calendar and keeping
copies of everything.

 

[George]

I doubt it's that easy to accurately stereotype an entire diverse nation
predominantly made up of immigrants. That being the case, the only thing
we might be able to conclude is that their ancestors were more likely to
migrate long distances, and that the amount of open space available has a
profound impact on lifestyle and cultural development.

I am a bit confused by your "open space" reference. Of course, California
has huge open spaces that aren't subject to the mudslides, floods, and fires
(take Castroville and Watsonville for instance), yet almost no one wants to
live there (they ARE within commuting distance of Silicon Valley) but most
people would rather be crammed into the valley (myself included, when I
lived there) and pay the ridiculously high prices due to the limited space
(due to being surrounded by mountains, not very high mountains, but
mountains nonetheless).