Random freezing


T

Terry R.

XP on this workstation will randomly freeze. While I'm working on it,
sitting idle. It will go for a week or more, then lock every day.

I've slowly reduced Hardware acceleration. Updated drivers, changed out
RAM, repair install. Even swapped out the power supply. Just when I
think I've resolved it, it freezes...

It doesn't happen with any other OS's on this machine.

Does anyone have a thought as to something I may have missed?

Thanks,

Terry R.
 
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D

Daave

Terry said:
XP on this workstation will randomly freeze. While I'm working on it,
sitting idle. It will go for a week or more, then lock every day.

I've slowly reduced Hardware acceleration. Updated drivers, changed
out RAM, repair install. Even swapped out the power supply. Just
when I think I've resolved it, it freezes...

It doesn't happen with any other OS's on this machine.

Does anyone have a thought as to something I may have missed?

Are these other OSes on another physical hard drive?
 
J

Jose

XP on this workstation will randomly freeze.  While I'm working on it,
sitting idle. It will go for a week or more, then lock every day.

I've slowly reduced Hardware acceleration. Updated drivers, changed out
RAM, repair install.  Even swapped out the power supply.  Just when I
think I've resolved it, it freezes...

It doesn't happen with any other OS's on this machine.

Does anyone have a thought as to something I may have missed?

Thanks,

Terry R.

If your system hangs or freezes and you can't figure out why, you can
force a BSOD which will
create a crash dump file that you can analyze and see what is running
at the point of the freeze
and get some ideas that do not involve guesswork or trying things.

While it may seem odd to think about purposefully causing a Blue
Screen Of Death (BSOD), Microsoft
includes such a provision in Windows XP for just such situations. This
might come in handy for testing and troubleshooting your Startup And
Recovery settings, Event logging, and for demonstration purposes.

Here's how to force your system to create a BSOD:

Before making registry changes, backup your registry with this popular
free and easy to use tool:

http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

Launch the Registry Editor (Regedit.exe) and navigate to

HKLM\Services\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters

Click Edit, select New | DWORD Value and name the new value
CrashOnCtrlScroll.

Double-click the CrashOnCtrlScroll DWORD Value, type 1 in the Value
Data textbox, and click OK.

Close the Registry Editor and restart Windows XP.

When you want to cause a BSOD, press and hold down the [Ctrl] key on
the right side of your keyboard,
and then tap the [ScrollLock] key twice. Now you should see the BSOD.

If your system reboots instead of displaying the BSOD, you'll have to
disable the Automatically
Restart setting in the System Properties dialog box. To do so, follow
these steps:

Press [Windows]-Break.
Select the Advanced tab.
Click the Settings button in the Startup And Recovery panel.
Clear the Automatically Restart check box in the System Failure
panel.
Click OK twice.

Here's how you remove the BSOD configuration:

Launch the Registry Editor (Regedit.exe) and navigate to:

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters

Select the CrashOnCtrlScroll value, click the Edit menu, and select
the Delete command.

Close the Registry Editor and restart Windows XP.
 
T

Terry R.

XP on this workstation will randomly freeze. While I'm working on it,
sitting idle. It will go for a week or more, then lock every day.

I've slowly reduced Hardware acceleration. Updated drivers, changed
out RAM, repair install. Even swapped out the power supply. Just
when I think I've resolved it, it freezes...

It doesn't happen with any other OS's on this machine.

Does anyone have a thought as to something I may have missed?

Are these other OSes on another physical hard drive?
[/QUOTE]

No, two of them on the same drive (W2k & Win7).


Terry R.
 
T

Terry R.

On 1/8/2010 7:41 AM On a whim, R. McCarty pounded out on the keyboard
As with most all issues, the 1st place to investigate is the System&
Application event logs. Any Errors or Warnings should be resolved.

I check there frequently. Nothing shows up. Probably because the
system freezes and nothing can be written.
Freezing is somewhat difficult to isolate. One thing that helps to work
it out is AutoRuns. Load and run, scroll down thru the list it presents
and look for entries with "File not Found" in the "Image Path" column.
These are generally safe for removal.

I've had Autoruns for a long time. I've unchecked any "File not found"
entries.
Freezing can also be due to hardware interrupts, so you should use
MSInfo32 to examine the IRQ mapping table for your XP. Expand
the Hardware Resources then IRQs to view your system's assignments.
If your computer driver is ACPI compliant the IRQ table should have
entries extending to IRQ #23. Sharing is common, but it helps to note
which sub-systems are actually on a shared IRQ line.

Only my USB controller is shared. All others are independent. And the
entries do extend to IRQ 23.

Thanks for any assistance.



Terry R.
 
D

Daave

Terry said:
Are these other OSes on another physical hard drive?

No, two of them on the same drive (W2k & Win7).[/QUOTE]

It seems like you looked at every conceivable thing. And since it seems
that your issue is not related to hardware, you might want to perform a
Clean Install at this point (since a Repair Install didn't fix your
random freezes).
 
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J

Jose

On 1/8/2010 7:41 AM On a whim, R. McCarty pounded out on the keyboard


I check there frequently.  Nothing shows up.  Probably because the
system freezes and nothing can be written.


I've had Autoruns for a long time.  I've unchecked any "File not found"
entries.


Only my USB controller is shared.  All others are independent. And the
entries do extend to IRQ 23.

Thanks for any assistance.






Terry R.

If you force the BSOD you will have a crash dump to analyze, not
something to guess about.

Every conceivable thing has not been looked at. It just sounds like
some unfruitful guesses have been made.

The reason CrashOnCtrlScroll exists is to help find what is causing
the system to hang/freeze.

Mark Russinovich (senior fellow at MS) and coauthor of Autoruns and
Process Monitor (among other things) says in one of his many
informational tutorial videos about XP troubleshooting, this is the
very first thing he does on an XP system that hangs for "no apparent
reason".

That feature is not in XP by some accident or coincidence. It is
there to help you with problems such as you describe.
 
T

Terry R.

On 1/9/2010 9:00 AM On a whim, Jose pounded out on the keyboard
If you force the BSOD you will have a crash dump to analyze, not
something to guess about.

Every conceivable thing has not been looked at. It just sounds like
some unfruitful guesses have been made.

The reason CrashOnCtrlScroll exists is to help find what is causing
the system to hang/freeze.

Mark Russinovich (senior fellow at MS) and coauthor of Autoruns and
Process Monitor (among other things) says in one of his many
informational tutorial videos about XP troubleshooting, this is the
very first thing he does on an XP system that hangs for "no apparent
reason".

That feature is not in XP by some accident or coincidence. It is
there to help you with problems such as you describe.

I don't believe I was "guessing", but doing a systematic process of
elimination. I've never analyzed a crash dump, but will create it and
see where to go next.


Terry R.
 
T

Terry R.

On 1/8/2010 7:27 AM On a whim, Daave pounded out on the keyboard


No, two of them on the same drive (W2k& Win7).

It seems like you looked at every conceivable thing. And since it seems
that your issue is not related to hardware, you might want to perform a
Clean Install at this point (since a Repair Install didn't fix your
random freezes).
[/QUOTE]

Hi Dave,

Yeah, that is what I was trying not to do... ;-) But in the time I've
spent t-shooting I could have rebuilt it. Then again, I have the other
OS's I can use, but XP is my main one.

I'll create a dump file like Jose suggested and then research getting it
analyzed. Have you done that before?



Terry R.
 
T

Terry R.

On 1/8/2010 7:53 AM On a whim, Jose pounded out on the keyboard
If your system hangs or freezes and you can't figure out why, you can
force a BSOD which will
create a crash dump file that you can analyze and see what is running
at the point of the freeze
and get some ideas that do not involve guesswork or trying things.

While it may seem odd to think about purposefully causing a Blue
Screen Of Death (BSOD), Microsoft
includes such a provision in Windows XP for just such situations. This
might come in handy for testing and troubleshooting your Startup And
Recovery settings, Event logging, and for demonstration purposes.

Here's how to force your system to create a BSOD:

Before making registry changes, backup your registry with this popular
free and easy to use tool:

http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

Launch the Registry Editor (Regedit.exe) and navigate to

HKLM\Services\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters

The above should be:
HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters

Click Edit, select New | DWORD Value and name the new value
CrashOnCtrlScroll.

Double-click the CrashOnCtrlScroll DWORD Value, type 1 in the Value
Data textbox, and click OK.

Close the Registry Editor and restart Windows XP.

When you want to cause a BSOD, press and hold down the [Ctrl] key on
the right side of your keyboard,
and then tap the [ScrollLock] key twice. Now you should see the BSOD.

If your system reboots instead of displaying the BSOD, you'll have to
disable the Automatically
Restart setting in the System Properties dialog box. To do so, follow
these steps:

Press [Windows]-Break.
Select the Advanced tab.
Click the Settings button in the Startup And Recovery panel.
Clear the Automatically Restart check box in the System Failure
panel.
Click OK twice.

Here's how you remove the BSOD configuration:

Launch the Registry Editor (Regedit.exe) and navigate to:

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters

Select the CrashOnCtrlScroll value, click the Edit menu, and select
the Delete command.

Close the Registry Editor and restart Windows XP.



Terry R.
 
T

Terry R.

On 1/8/2010 7:53 AM On a whim, Jose pounded out on the keyboard
XP on this workstation will randomly freeze. While I'm working on it,
sitting idle. It will go for a week or more, then lock every day.

I've slowly reduced Hardware acceleration. Updated drivers, changed out
RAM, repair install. Even swapped out the power supply. Just when I
think I've resolved it, it freezes...

It doesn't happen with any other OS's on this machine.

Does anyone have a thought as to something I may have missed?

Thanks,

Terry R.

If your system hangs or freezes and you can't figure out why, you can
force a BSOD which will
create a crash dump file that you can analyze and see what is running
at the point of the freeze
and get some ideas that do not involve guesswork or trying things.

While it may seem odd to think about purposefully causing a Blue
Screen Of Death (BSOD), Microsoft
includes such a provision in Windows XP for just such situations. This
might come in handy for testing and troubleshooting your Startup And
Recovery settings, Event logging, and for demonstration purposes.

Here's how to force your system to create a BSOD:

Before making registry changes, backup your registry with this popular
free and easy to use tool:

http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

Launch the Registry Editor (Regedit.exe) and navigate to

HKLM\Services\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters

Click Edit, select New | DWORD Value and name the new value
CrashOnCtrlScroll.

Double-click the CrashOnCtrlScroll DWORD Value, type 1 in the Value
Data textbox, and click OK.

Close the Registry Editor and restart Windows XP.

When you want to cause a BSOD, press and hold down the [Ctrl] key on
the right side of your keyboard,
and then tap the [ScrollLock] key twice. Now you should see the BSOD.

If your system reboots instead of displaying the BSOD, you'll have to
disable the Automatically
Restart setting in the System Properties dialog box. To do so, follow
these steps:

Press [Windows]-Break.
Select the Advanced tab.
Click the Settings button in the Startup And Recovery panel.
Clear the Automatically Restart check box in the System Failure
panel.
Click OK twice.

Here's how you remove the BSOD configuration:

Launch the Registry Editor (Regedit.exe) and navigate to:

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters

Select the CrashOnCtrlScroll value, click the Edit menu, and select
the Delete command.

Close the Registry Editor and restart Windows XP.

It didn't work, so I researched a bit and found that with a USB
keyboard, the entry needs to be placed here instead:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\kbdhid\Parameters


Terry R.
 
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T

Terry R.

On 1/9/2010 1:17 PM On a whim, Terry R. pounded out on the keyboard
On 1/8/2010 7:53 AM On a whim, Jose pounded out on the keyboard
XP on this workstation will randomly freeze. While I'm working on it,
sitting idle. It will go for a week or more, then lock every day.

I've slowly reduced Hardware acceleration. Updated drivers, changed out
RAM, repair install. Even swapped out the power supply. Just when I
think I've resolved it, it freezes...

It doesn't happen with any other OS's on this machine.

Does anyone have a thought as to something I may have missed?

Thanks,

Terry R.

If your system hangs or freezes and you can't figure out why, you can
force a BSOD which will
create a crash dump file that you can analyze and see what is running
at the point of the freeze
and get some ideas that do not involve guesswork or trying things.

While it may seem odd to think about purposefully causing a Blue
Screen Of Death (BSOD), Microsoft
includes such a provision in Windows XP for just such situations. This
might come in handy for testing and troubleshooting your Startup And
Recovery settings, Event logging, and for demonstration purposes.

Here's how to force your system to create a BSOD:

Before making registry changes, backup your registry with this popular
free and easy to use tool:

http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

Launch the Registry Editor (Regedit.exe) and navigate to

HKLM\Services\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters

Click Edit, select New | DWORD Value and name the new value
CrashOnCtrlScroll.

Double-click the CrashOnCtrlScroll DWORD Value, type 1 in the Value
Data textbox, and click OK.

Close the Registry Editor and restart Windows XP.

When you want to cause a BSOD, press and hold down the [Ctrl] key on
the right side of your keyboard,
and then tap the [ScrollLock] key twice. Now you should see the BSOD.

If your system reboots instead of displaying the BSOD, you'll have to
disable the Automatically
Restart setting in the System Properties dialog box. To do so, follow
these steps:

Press [Windows]-Break.
Select the Advanced tab.
Click the Settings button in the Startup And Recovery panel.
Clear the Automatically Restart check box in the System Failure
panel.
Click OK twice.

Here's how you remove the BSOD configuration:

Launch the Registry Editor (Regedit.exe) and navigate to:

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters

Select the CrashOnCtrlScroll value, click the Edit menu, and select
the Delete command.

Close the Registry Editor and restart Windows XP.

It didn't work, so I researched a bit and found that with a USB
keyboard, the entry needs to be placed here instead:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\kbdhid\Parameters


Terry R.

Bah. That doesn't work either...


Terry R.
 
D

Daave

Terry said:
It seems like you looked at every conceivable thing. And since it
seems that your issue is not related to hardware, you might want to
perform a Clean Install at this point (since a Repair Install didn't
fix your random freezes).

Hi Dave,

Yeah, that is what I was trying not to do... ;-) But in the time I've
spent t-shooting I could have rebuilt it.[/QUOTE]

That was what I was driving at. :)
Then again, I have the
other OS's I can use, but XP is my main one.

I'll create a dump file like Jose suggested and then research getting
it analyzed. Have you done that before?

I have never done that, but I am curious to see what information it
reveals.
 
J

Jose

On 1/9/2010 1:17 PM On a whim, Terry R. pounded out on the keyboard


Bah.  That doesn't work either...

Terry R.

Poop. My copy/paste directions are/were wrong. Not any more though.

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters

Did you reboot after the change? I have never seen it not work.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc266483.aspx

Getting set up to analyze a crash dump using the MS tools to analyze
one crash dump can be frustrating, time consuming and intimidating.
It is time well spent if you need to look at them more often - even on
the BSODs that come about more "naturally".

There is a third party tool that is useful for the quick glance at the
dumps:

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/blue_screen_view.html

Isn't there a site to upload files (besides screenshots). I don't
know where that is, but you can send it to me as an attachment and I
will look at it. I am all set up to look at them.
 
T

Terry R.

On 1/9/2010 2:10 PM On a whim, Jose pounded out on the keyboard
Poop. My copy/paste directions are/were wrong. Not any more though.

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters

The above is for PS2 keyboards. I posted the USB path in a reply to your
earlier post.
Did you reboot after the change? I have never seen it not work.

Yep. Rebooted each time.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc266483.aspx

Getting set up to analyze a crash dump using the MS tools to analyze
one crash dump can be frustrating, time consuming and intimidating.
It is time well spent if you need to look at them more often - even on
the BSODs that come about more "naturally".

There is a third party tool that is useful for the quick glance at the
dumps:

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/blue_screen_view.html

Isn't there a site to upload files (besides screenshots). I don't
know where that is, but you can send it to me as an attachment and I
will look at it. I am all set up to look at them.

Have no idea why it doesn't work...

Terry R.
 
J

Jose

On 1/9/2010 2:10 PM On a whim, Jose pounded out on the keyboard








The above is for PS2 keyboards. I posted the USB path in a reply to your
earlier post.


Yep. Rebooted each time.








Have no idea why it doesn't work...

Terry R.

Grrr. I don't have a USB KB handy, but I did fix my notes and added a
reminder for USB.

Are you using the right most CTRL key? That is the only one that will
do it and two hits on the Scroll Lock.

Works fine on my wireless USB setup, PS/2 and lots of laptops - so far
at least.

Dunno...
 
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T

Terry R.

On 1/9/2010 3:53 PM On a whim, Jose pounded out on the keyboard
Grrr. I don't have a USB KB handy, but I did fix my notes and added a
reminder for USB.

Are you using the right most CTRL key? That is the only one that will
do it and two hits on the Scroll Lock.

Works fine on my wireless USB setup, PS/2 and lots of laptops - so far
at least.

Dunno...

I don't either. This keyboard is only a couple months old.

I just deleted the partition and created a new one. I have months of
backup partitions on other drives on this workstation, in case I need
anything. But my data is stored on a separate drive and I install my
programs to yet another drive, so getting back and running isn't a big
deal. I just don't like doing this kind of work on my OWN
workstation... ;-)



Terry R.
 
T

Terry R.

On 1/9/2010 8:19 AM On a whim, Daave pounded out on the keyboard


Hi Dave,

Yeah, that is what I was trying not to do... ;-) But in the time I've
spent t-shooting I could have rebuilt it.

That was what I was driving at. :)
Then again, I have the
other OS's I can use, but XP is my main one.

I'll create a dump file like Jose suggested and then research getting
it analyzed. Have you done that before?

I have never done that, but I am curious to see what information it
reveals.
[/QUOTE]

Strange thing, yesterday the only things I did was:
1. MS Update
2. CmdHere Powertoy, ImageResizer Powertoy, TweakUi Powertoy
3. Disktrix UltimateDefrag

and it was frozen this morning when I came in. Since the old install
could go for a week at a time without freezing, I may have added
programs too soon.

Now this is to the point where I would have to install XP, wait a week
to see if it freezes, then progress with a program each week until I
find the problem. I'm wondering whether I should just retire XP on this
workstation...



Terry R.
 
J

Jose

On 1/9/2010 1:44 PM On a whim, Daave pounded out on the keyboard








Strange thing, yesterday the only things I did was:
1. MS Update
2. CmdHere Powertoy, ImageResizer Powertoy, TweakUi Powertoy
3. Disktrix UltimateDefrag

and it was frozen this morning when I came in.  Since the old install
could go for a week at a time without freezing, I may have added
programs too soon.

Now this is to the point where I would have to install XP, wait a week
to see if it freezes, then progress with a program each week until I
find the problem.  I'm wondering whether I should just retire XP on this
workstation...

Terry R.

Nah.

If your system stops responding, hangs or freezes and you can't figure
out why, you can force a
BSOD which will create a crash dump file that you can analyze and see
what is running at the point
of the freeze and get some ideas that do not involve guesswork.

While it may seem odd to think about purposefully causing a Blue
Screen Of Death (BSOD), Microsoft
includes such a provision in Windows XP. The feature is built in to XP
specifically to diagnose
the problem when a system stops responding and there is no trail in
any of the Event Logs, etc.
about what might have happened.

Here's how to force your system to create a BSOD:

Before making registry changes, backup your registry with this popular
free and easy to use tool:

http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

Launch the Registry Editor (Regedit.exe) and navigate to:

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters

Click Edit, select New DWORD Value and name the new value
CrashOnCtrlScroll.

Double-click the CrashOnCtrlScroll DWORD Value, type 1 in the Value
Data text box, and click OK.

Close the Registry Editor and restart Windows XP.

When you want to cause a BSOD (when your system has stopped
responding), press and hold down the
[Ctrl] key on the RIGHT side of your keyboard, and then tap the
[ScrollLock] key twice. Now you
should see the BSOD and you will have a crash dump file to analyze.

If your system reboots instead of displaying the BSOD, you'll have to
disable the Automatically
Restart setting in the System Properties dialog box. To do so, follow
these steps:

Press [Windows]-Break.
Select the Advanced tab.
Click the Settings button in the Startup And Recovery panel.
Clear the Automatically Restart check box in the System Failure
panel.
Click OK twice.

You can read about the feature here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc266483.aspx

There is no harm in leaving the feature enabled, but if you are
compelled to remove it:

Launch the Registry Editor (Regedit.exe) and navigate to:

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters

Select the CrashOnCtrlScroll value, click the Edit menu, and select
the Delete command.

Close the Registry Editor and restart Windows XP.
 
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D

Daave

Terry said:
That was what I was driving at. :)


I have never done that, but I am curious to see what information it
reveals.

Strange thing, yesterday the only things I did was:
1. MS Update
2. CmdHere Powertoy, ImageResizer Powertoy, TweakUi Powertoy
3. Disktrix UltimateDefrag

and it was frozen this morning when I came in. Since the old install
could go for a week at a time without freezing, I may have added
programs too soon.

Now this is to the point where I would have to install XP, wait a week
to see if it freezes, then progress with a program each week until I
find the problem. I'm wondering whether I should just retire XP on
this workstation...[/QUOTE]

If you have a Restore Point immediately prior to Disktrix, I would
uninstall it and run System Restore to see if that cures the freezing.
Otherwise, uninstall all three of those things and run System Restore to
see what happens. There is a strong chance that one of those three
things (probably Disktrix) is repsonsible for your freezing.

Either that or you have intermittent hardware problems that will
eventually become constant (probably with the hard drive).

(Or it's the gremlins...)
 

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