RAM

K

KenK

My ancient XP Home eMachine T2984 still has the original 512M RAM. It is
annoyiongly slow sometimes. Would changing it to 1 G, or even 2 G, make an
obvious improvement? Would it be difficult to install?

TIA
 
M

Mayayana

I keep the following handy as a basic slow-XP guide.
XP can get very bogged down. 512MB *should* be
plenty for XP, but it depends on what you're running.
More recent software has often been written with far
more bloat than equivalent software from the time
when XP came out.

It shouldn't be hard to add RAM, but it's best to get
a copy of the manual, which may be available online
if you don't have it. That will tell you the type, number
of available slots, and suitable sizes to use.
It might be hard to find the type you need. It keeps
changing and stores like Staples and Best Buy continue
to downgrade their selection of computer equipment.
What you need may also be more expensive. It's odd
but common that older types of RAM will sell for a lot
more than current types.

Once you get the stick, just slip it into the slot and
make sure the end tabs click into place. The only
other thing to know is to avoid touching anything on
the motherboard or the metal contacts on the RAM stick.
Also, touch the PC case before starting, to ground any
static electricity.

XP slow guide:

Open Internet Explorer -> Tools -> Internet
Options. Delete all cache (stored files) and
set the cache limit small -- maybe 50 MB.
(I set it to 2 and don't use IE online.) It's
a good idea to delete all cache twice.
Sometimes it doesn't seem to entirely work.
This one factor can have a big affect on
XP speed.

Also in IE, disable any add-ons that are not
necessary. If they don't use IE then remove
all extensions and BHOs via the Registry.

(IE is tied into the system, affecting Explorer.)

Do a disk cleanup and have it delete all Temp
files.

Go to sysinternals.com. Download Autoruns.
Use that to limit the programs that run at
startup. A lot of software sets itself to run at
startup. Auto-backup, iTunes, printer junk....
there can be a dozen or more things running that
shouldn't be.

Disable any unnecessary services; especially
indexing.

Never use Symantec software. Avoid AV, malware
hunters and extraneous firewall functions whenever
possible. Their usefulness is limited and the programs
themselves tend to be very bloated.
Both AV and malware hunters have become a losing
proposition. You end up with every file action being
scanned for 10s of thousands of signatures, while
most attacks are being done with vulnerabilities that
are not even officially known yet. And the scanners
have to hold all those signatures in RAM.

Download Procmon from Sysinternals and see
what is happening when nothing should be.
 
S

Stef

KenK said:
My ancient XP Home eMachine T2984 still has the original 512M RAM. It is
annoyiongly slow sometimes. Would changing it to 1 G, or even 2 G, make an
obvious improvement? Would it be difficult to install?

Yes, in general more RAM will improve performance up to a point.

No, RAM is not hard to install. Just be sure you get the correct type
for your motherboard. Check its user manual. If the machine is really
old, you probably won't find it new. You may have to go used.

But before you do that, clean up your machine, both physically and
software-wise. Check what's in Startup, background tasks, etc. The
more stuff you install on a Windows machine the more gets loaded at
boot time. And that uses more and more RAM. Modern
antivirus/antimalware utilities and their databases will slow old
machines down, too.

Do a Google search for "imporve Windows XP performance," or "Windows
running slow," or something to that effect.

Stef
 
K

Ken Blake, MVP

My ancient XP Home eMachine T2984 still has the original 512M RAM. It is
annoyiongly slow sometimes. Would changing it to 1 G, or even 2 G, make an
obvious improvement?


Maybe.

How much RAM you need for good performance is *not* a
one-size-fits-all situation. You get good performance if the amount of
RAM you have keeps you from using the page file significantly, and
that depends on what apps you run.

Most people running a typical range of business applications under XP
find that somewhere around 512MB works well, others need more. Almost
anyone will see poor performance with less than 256MB. Some people,
particularly those doing things like editing large photographic
images, can see a performance boost by adding even more than
512MB--sometimes much more.

If you are currently using the page file significantly, more memory
will decrease or eliminate that usage, and improve your performance.
If you are not using the page file significantly, more memory will do
nothing for you.

Go to http://billsway.com/notes_public/winxp_tweaks/ and download
WinXP-2K_Pagefile.zip and monitor your page file usage. That should
give you a good idea of whether more memory can help, and if so, how
much more.

Would it be difficult to install?


No.
 
P

Paul

KenK said:
My ancient XP Home eMachine T2984 still has the original 512M RAM. It is
annoyiongly slow sometimes. Would changing it to 1 G, or even 2 G, make an
obvious improvement? Would it be difficult to install?

TIA

(Resend - E-S lost message?)

Let the computer run for the day, doing your normal things.

Open Task Manager and check "Peak Commit". Right now, my
Commit Charge Total is ~500MB, and my Commit Charge Peak
is ~709MB. If we considered that I had run the system
long enough to capture "normal usage", then I would be
in the market for a total of 1GB of physical RAM. That
would cover me for the ~709MB Peak Commit. And stop the
machine from swapping to disk. Based on my quick test,
I need a minimum of 1GB RAM, for "snappy performance".

I've tested WinXP with 512MB, 1GB, 2GB, 4GB,
and 1GB and above worked well for light duty usage.
Back in the day, the 512MB setup worked semi-OK, because
programs weren't pigs back then. You could keep two or
three programs open. But with the wrong browser choice
now, I'm sure just the browser alone could suck the life
out of the computer.

*******

Some machines cannot take additional RAM, even if the
machine has more slots. Intel, in an idiot move, designed
a chipset that could take 3*512MB modules, but artificially
limited the chipset internally to just 512MB total. That
means, if a user bought a 512MB module, the other two slots
would effectively remain empty, because attempts to add additional
RAM would be ignored. You could certainly plug more
modules in, but they wouldn't register. So don't
blindly run out, buy modules and insert them.
Check to see the machine limit first.

*******

Specs here for D845GVSR motherboard - compare picture to yours.
Says 2x1GB max. You would want "low density" 1GB modules,
16 chips with x8 memory interfaces on each. Ebay used to have
high density modules, 16 chips with x4 memory chips, which
are not recommended (at least, by Intel). Usually the memory
DIMM itself is not branded - yes, it may have Samsung chips
on it, but the company making the DIMM is not proud of their
work, and won't show their name. You won't get a x4 module
like that from Crucial or Kingston, and they put their name
on their products. The high density module makers are
"keeping a low profile" "fell off back of truck" manufacturers :)
You save $10 on the module, but the module just doesn't
work all that well (command/address/control signal loading). The
x4 modules report as a single rank of memory. Which is why
I wouldn't buy one. When installed, a 1GB high density
module will report as only 512MB, because the motherboard
can be missing the address bit needed to drive it. That's
a hint the module you bought, may be high density.

(Specs)
https://web.archive.org/web/2006110...fo/dir1/motherboards/socket478/D845GVSR.shtml

Example of a (apparently proper) 1GB module.

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/d845gvsr/CT352989

Their list includes two 1GB modules and two 512MB modules.
Two 1GB modules at $28.99 each would mean an upgrade
cost of roughly $60 to get to 2GB. Certainly cheaper
than any prices I paid for mine. Verify that the
motherboard model number I've selected is correct,
before buying. It's not like accurate Emachines
data, grows on trees any more. Emachines has changed
hands too many times for that to happen.

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/compatible-memory-for/Intel/d845gvsr

Turn off all power to the computer, before changing RAM. If
standby power is present inside the computer, a DIMM can
be damaged as it is being plugged into the RAM slot. I unplug
the computer, and use an ESD wrist strap while inserting the
RAM (wrist strap clamped to computer). The last time I used
my wrist strap, was two weeks ago, when my DDR3 RAM kit showed up.

Paul
 
B

Buffalo

"KenK" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
My ancient XP Home eMachine T2984 still has the original 512M RAM. It is
annoyiongly slow sometimes. Would changing it to 1 G, or even 2 G, make an
obvious improvement? Would it be difficult to install?

TIA
Similar to what others suggested. First see how much pagefile your computer
uses. If it is minimal, then more ram won't help much.
Check to see if you can install a faster cpu in that machine. You could
probably buy one fairly cheaply.
 
H

Hot-Text

Buffalo said:
"KenK" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Similar to what others suggested. First see how much pagefile your
computer uses. If it is minimal, then more ram won't help much.
Check to see if you can install a faster cpu in that machine. You could
probably buy one fairly cheaply.

Buffalo

I would go with a New cpu and ram
They all are fairly cheaply
it make a old machine
like a New Fist Emachines

I'll do it
 
M

micky

My ancient XP Home eMachine T2984 still has the original 512M RAM. It is
annoyiongly slow sometimes. Would changing it to 1 G, or even 2 G, make an
obvious improvement? Would it be difficult to install?

TIA

I find RAM tricky to install. I haven't read all the replies, but
someone should point out:

Obviously, you want the notch in the RAM stick to correspond to the
plastic, unslotted portion of the RAM socket.

Not so obviously, put the stick in at about 30 degrees from vertical,
After it's in as far as it goes, then push it upright.

I've found it requires a bit of pushing, usually on one end and then on
the other (though I've often wondered if it would work to push on both
ends at the same time.) Hmm. I thinkt the pushing is when it's still
at 30^, but there is a hole in my recollection.

Well, it's been years since I've done this and I realize my memory has
at least one hole. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me.
 
P

Paul

micky said:
I find RAM tricky to install. I haven't read all the replies, but
someone should point out:

Obviously, you want the notch in the RAM stick to correspond to the
plastic, unslotted portion of the RAM socket.

Not so obviously, put the stick in at about 30 degrees from vertical,
After it's in as far as it goes, then push it upright.

I've found it requires a bit of pushing, usually on one end and then on
the other (though I've often wondered if it would work to push on both
ends at the same time.) Hmm. I thinkt the pushing is when it's still
at 30^, but there is a hole in my recollection.

Well, it's been years since I've done this and I realize my memory has
at least one hole. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me.

The key and notch system is intended to try to weed out improper
mixtures of memory DIMM versus "motherboard+slot_type". They
didn't invent the scheme, with the express wish to have it
defeated by tilting the DIMM at a 30 degree angle and forcing it.
Or as one clever individual claimed in a USENET posting, he
"sawed a slot in the DIMM to match his motherboard", surely a hint
"you're doing it wrong" :)

What you really want, is installation in a well-lit environment.
I use a halogen lamp with adjustable arm, when I need to see
inside a PC. That allows eyeballing the slot and the DIMM,
and figuring out "which way is back or front". It's possible
to rotate a DIMM by accident, but the key should help prevent
that.

The key position can also indicate registered versus unbuffered
DIMM. It could indicate voltage (where there is a possibility
of damage by inserting the wrong thing). And the JEDEC committee
should be comparing dimensions and already allocated keying
positions, with the intention of preventing accidental insertion
(shoving FPM or EDO into DDR4 slot or vice versa).

Some DIMM slots do indeed require both tilting and fiddling,
and I cannot recommend such slots. The last motherboard I bought,
used multi-colored plastic to hide the fact the DIMM slots
were "one ejector" designs, instead of a proper "two ejector"
design. One end of the DIMM is always effectively locked, and
there is no mechanical means to ease it out of the slot. The
other ejector does all the work. The purpose of this
design, is to allow video card slot #1 to be pressed right up against
the end of the DIMM slot. Since the (fixed) end of the DIMM slot
has no moving ejector, you don't have to remove the video card
to actuate the ejector. Instead, the plastic on that end is just
fixed. When the maker of the slot is "honest", they use a single
solid color (say, yellow) for the entire DIMM slot plus the fixed
function on the video card end of the slot. By using a different
colored plastic for the fixed end, you can "fool" people like
Paul into thinking the slot comes with a real ejector on that end,
when it does not.

1) Present the DIMM equally to both ends of the slot. Don't
tilt at an angle.

2) Using a bright light, compare the key (not properly colored)
to the slot.

3) Once you've checked, checked and rechecked that you aren't
doing something stupid, *now* you can start tilting the thing
if you have one of those one-ejector slots.

Some low-profile DIMMs resist even proper insertion, because
the bevel of the PCB board is too "blunt" for easy insertion.
The Kingston low profile DIMMs for example, hurt your fingers
while you're pressing them into place. Taller DIMMs, use a
different milled profile on the edge of the PCB, where it
goes into the slot.

4) For a small number of motherboards (perhaps mixed DDR400/DDR2
boards), the board actually includes a jumper to select operating
voltage. You get to choose one RAM type of two slot types
available (two DDR400 slots, two DDR2 slots). The keying system
ensures you use an acceptable kind of RAM with the motherboard - but
it does not detect two different types installed at the same time.
It also doesn't detect that the jumper setting is applying 3.3V
to a 2.5V memory. So those motherboards, for a naive user, are
a mine field. Anyone attempting a build with ancient motherboard
stock of that type, where the "manual happens to be missing",
runs the risk of blowing the thing. Due to the insistence of the
maker, on not putting an interlock in place. Even when I've read
the manual on some of those, the function of the voltage
jumper may not be documented properly.

Some of those, the voltage setting is auto-detected, so
no damage can result. But a few were designed to aid in
"accidental destruction" of the motherboard. Such boards
are usually the $65 variety.

HTH,
Paul
 
R

Rodney Pont

I find RAM tricky to install. I haven't read all the replies, but
someone should point out:

Obviously, you want the notch in the RAM stick to correspond to the
plastic, unslotted portion of the RAM socket.

Not so obviously, put the stick in at about 30 degrees from vertical,
After it's in as far as it goes, then push it upright.

Are you talking about laptop ram? That's the only one I've come across
where you have to angle the ram at 30%, push it in and then push it
down flat. The only sockets I've seen on a desktop/floorstanding
machine you can only insert them at right angles to the motherboard and
push down at both ends until you hear the clicks.
 
P

philo 

My ancient XP Home eMachine T2984 still has the original 512M RAM. It is
annoyiongly slow sometimes. Would changing it to 1 G, or even 2 G, make an
obvious improvement? Would it be difficult to install?

TIA



I just took a quick look on eBay and saw that you can get 2 Gigs of RAM
for that machine @ $20

I'd go for it


I've found that though XP will run OK with 512 megs...as soon as you add
a virus checker it bogs down, so more RAM will be helpful.


Just be sure to blow the dust out of the slots before you put in the new RAM
 
M

micky

The key and notch system is intended to try to weed out improper
mixtures of memory DIMM versus "motherboard+slot_type". They
didn't invent the scheme, with the express wish to have it
defeated by tilting the DIMM at a 30 degree angle and forcing it.

There's some misunderstanding here. I've never used the wrong model
DIMM. I use the Kingston webpage, and I buy just what the webpage
calculator says I need. But I have never been able to just push a DIMM
in from the top. I always have to put it in at an angle, using some
force, and then tilt it up again. Maybe my defniition of force is not
as much as you're thinking I mean.

Maybe the sockets have changed lately. I have a computer I assembled
myself with an ASUS mobo, but I don't remember which model. And I have
a Dell Dimension 4600 and a 4700. The OP says he has an "ancient XP
Home eMachine T2984" sold withl 512M RAM that can take 1 or 2 G. It
sounds like it's the same age as my computers.

I thought the notch was there mostly to make sure people didn't put the
DIMM in backwards, but I guess I realized it had other uses too.

BTW, OP, once I caught a wire, in this case from some fan, under the
DIMM, and didn't realize it for months. That's another reason I called
it tricky. I finally went looking to see why I didnt' have as much
RAM showing as I should have. Once I took the wire out, the fan was
fine and the RAM went in right immediately afterwards

Or as one clever individual claimed in a USENET posting, he
"sawed a slot in the DIMM to match his motherboard", surely a hint
"you're doing it wrong" :)

What you really want, is installation in a well-lit environment.
I use a halogen lamp with adjustable arm, when I need to see
inside a PC. That allows eyeballing the slot and the DIMM,
and figuring out "which way is back or front". It's possible
to rotate a DIMM by accident, but the key should help prevent
that.
Exactly.

The key position can also indicate registered versus unbuffered
DIMM. It could indicate voltage (where there is a possibility
of damage by inserting the wrong thing). And the JEDEC committee
should be comparing dimensions and already allocated keying
positions, with the intention of preventing accidental insertion
(shoving FPM or EDO into DDR4 slot or vice versa).

Some DIMM slots do indeed require both tilting and fiddling,

Oh. Well that's what I have then. Maybe the OP does too?
and I cannot recommend such slots.

Me neither, but that's what came with the computer or the mobo. :)
 
M

micky

Are you talking about laptop ram?

Nope. Desktop.
That's the only one I've come across
where you have to angle the ram at 30%, push it in and then push it
down flat. The only sockets I've seen on a desktop/floorstanding
machine you can only insert them at right angles to the motherboard and
push down at both ends until you hear the clicks.

Well, mostly I've worked on ASUS motherboards and Dell computers.
Maybe that's the difference. I'm used to it now, and it's not a
problem anymore.

OP, if you need to remove the RAM, push the shiny metal tab** at each
end, the DIMM will tilt forward and can be pulled out easily. AFAIK.

**I guess those are what Paul calls ejectors. I don't know if I have had
one real one or two.
 
P

Paul

BTW you really do need to verify the memory stick type. I had one that
fit just fine (all the notches lined up). When I turned on the machine
there was magic smoke everywhere.

That can be caused by a bypass cap failed short.

It makes you wonder how all these field failures happen,
if the DIMMs were getting tested at the factory. You could
probably find these faults, using low-power ohms range on the
multimeter and checking for short-circuits between major rails.
Then plug it in, after you're sure there are no shorts.

We used a test procedure like that in the lab for circuit packs. My
design, for example, always seemed to measure around 3 ohms
between the major supply rails. The "normal" value was sufficiently
high, that if there was an actual short there, the value would
be a lot closer to zero ohms. And as a result, the first step
on incoming inspection, was "check from rail1 to GND is 3 ohm,
rail2 to GND is 11 ohms". And that was a way of weeding out stuff that
could cause smoke. Stuff could still smoke, but at least you've
done a partial test to find the really bad stuff. I've had circuits
smoke, because the clock oscillator wasn't plugged in and the
board had no clock signal. (This involves circuits with
synchronous reset, a reset that must have a clock running
to work properly.)

And that 3 ohm value, isn't something I can calculate in advance.
Or justify picking as an "acceptance value". It was done
purely by testing a batch, get the mean and standard deviation,
and offer the information to the test group as a "suggested serving".

Paul
 

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