Radeon on nForce or GeForce on Crossfire?

A

andrew.gullans

I've heard that nobody makes a chipset for AMD like nVidia does, and
that ATi's videocards are simply the best for gaming. Now, what
happens if you mix them around? Are there any problems mounting an ATi
card on an nVidia motherboard, or vice-versa? And, which of the two
configurations in the title would you choose?
 
T

Thomas Kohl

I've heard that nobody makes a chipset for AMD like nVidia does, and
that ATi's videocards are simply the best for gaming. Now, what
happens if you mix them around? Are there any problems mounting an ATi
card on an nVidia motherboard, or vice-versa? And, which of the two
configurations in the title would you choose?
I can say that an Ati Radeon X800GT works on an A8N-VM Board which has a
nVidia Chipset.

Thomas
 
D

Don Burnette

I've heard that nobody makes a chipset for AMD like nVidia does, and
that ATi's videocards are simply the best for gaming. Now, what
happens if you mix them around? Are there any problems mounting an
ATi card on an nVidia motherboard, or vice-versa? And, which of the
two configurations in the title would you choose?


No, no problems. I run a Saphire Radeon X850XT on an Nforce4 mb, with no
issues.
You will find many that prefer Nvidia, and many that prefer ATI. Either will
work fine on an Nforce board.

I just upgraded my system to a MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum Nforce4 mb, with the
above Radeon PCIe videcard, and an AMD 4400+ X2 processor. Works very
nicely!!
 
F

First of One

Just to clarify, you cannot run two Geforce cards in SLI mode on an Xpress
board, or two Radeon cards in Crossfire mode on an nForce board. Single-card
installations are fine, though.

BTW, HardOCP seems to have repeated issues with the RAID driver on nForce4
boards, and it is a driver/chipset issue, so all board vendors are affected.
Not sure how widespread the problem is.
 
K

kony

I've heard that nobody makes a chipset for AMD like nVidia does,

Not necessarily relevant.
and
that ATi's videocards are simply the best for gaming.

Not necessarily true.
Now, what
happens if you mix them around?

Same thing as if you don't?

Are there any problems mounting an ATi
card on an nVidia motherboard, or vice-versa? And, which of the two
configurations in the title would you choose?

There's no real point in considering this.
The specific application and budget determines the optimal
parts combination at any point in time, and of course the
feature sets you need for the non-gaming uses of the system.

Trying to arbitrarily decide "nVidia chipset" is not of much
point, the main performance differences as always are the
CPU, memory, video card.

Similarly declaring ATI the best for gaming because of their
newest/fastest card is ok, if you're buying THAT card today
If another card model instead from either ATI or nVidia, or
a month or more from now, you've leaped to conclusions.

Define the features, the games, the resulutions, level of
eye candy, budget, and what compromises can be made if the
budget doesn't get all you'd "like", as is often the case
(if budget were no object, you would already have such a
powerful system there'd be no point in spending time to
upgrade it right now).

In short, no, the things you mention are about the least
important details possible and there is not issue with
mixing, that is the whole point of standards.
 
M

Mark

I've heard that nobody makes a chipset for AMD like nVidia does, and
You could read that both ways, and I guess both are true ;-)
NForce boards are a pain to work with, I found out the hard way. Any
NForce chipset generation seems to have at least one major flaw in them.
I'm happily running my ATI board on an NForce mobo though, also under
x64, but using it's own on-board hardware is practically pointless (In
my case both the GBit LAN and the on-board sound give major problems.
Sound even crashes Win x64! A friend of mine has the infamous USB
problem -- both solved with off-board cards easily of course).

So mixing the two seems at least to be OK for Radeon on NForce. I don't
know about the other way around since I never buy NVidia graphics cards.
Ever.
 
G

General Schvantzkoph

You could read that both ways, and I guess both are true ;-)
NForce boards are a pain to work with, I found out the hard way. Any
NForce chipset generation seems to have at least one major flaw in them.
I'm happily running my ATI board on an NForce mobo though, also under
x64, but using it's own on-board hardware is practically pointless (In
my case both the GBit LAN and the on-board sound give major problems.
Sound even crashes Win x64! A friend of mine has the infamous USB
problem -- both solved with off-board cards easily of course).

So mixing the two seems at least to be OK for Radeon on NForce. I don't
know about the other way around since I never buy NVidia graphics cards.
Ever.

What problems have you seen with an Nforce chipset? I have three systems
with various generations of Nforce chipsets, an Nforce 3-150 in a laptop,
and Nforce 3-250Ultra in a desktop and an Nforce 4 Ultra in a server. All
three systems run 24/7, the oldest has been running for a year and a half.
I haven't had a problem with any of them.
 
M

Mark

General said:
What problems have you seen with an Nforce chipset? I have three systems
with various generations of Nforce chipsets, an Nforce 3-150 in a laptop,
[snip]
Like I said, I've mainly had problems with the on-board things. My main
system is an NForce3-250 (K8N-Neo Platinum), and both the sound and gbit
lan are unuseable, as well as the "optimized" NVidia IDE driver which I
dare not install or my system goes south hard and fast with corruption
left and right.

If I avoid using the onboard things (I have a PCI NIC installed and will
get a decent sound card once I get the cash for it) it runs fine and
stable. I'll wait with windows x64 until I have the sound card since
using directsound under winx64 actually crashes the chip (and
subsequently windows). Since the sound is an integral part of the
chipset it's not the motherboard manufacturer to blame here either. Not
that MSI has a bad name though.

Next to that 2 different friends of mine, totally unrelated, have had to
put in USB expansion cards in their NForce 2 boards to get normal use
out of their USB (both for storage and for instance using a scanner --
anything with a high data throughput), and it's not OS related either
since it occurs under both Windows and Linux. So there's been quite a
few problems with the chipsets in at least 3 unrelated systems that I
know of in my small circle of friends. I can assume it's not isolated
incidents.

So, if used just as interface to the CPU, it does a good job (no
complaints about stability). If used fully, there are problems.
 
G

General Schvantzkoph

General said:
What problems have you seen with an Nforce chipset? I have three systems
with various generations of Nforce chipsets, an Nforce 3-150 in a laptop,
[snip]
Like I said, I've mainly had problems with the on-board things. My main
system is an NForce3-250 (K8N-Neo Platinum), and both the sound and gbit
lan are unuseable, as well as the "optimized" NVidia IDE driver which I
dare not install or my system goes south hard and fast with corruption
left and right.

If I avoid using the onboard things (I have a PCI NIC installed and will
get a decent sound card once I get the cash for it) it runs fine and
stable. I'll wait with windows x64 until I have the sound card since
using directsound under winx64 actually crashes the chip (and
subsequently windows). Since the sound is an integral part of the
chipset it's not the motherboard manufacturer to blame here either. Not
that MSI has a bad name though.

Next to that 2 different friends of mine, totally unrelated, have had to
put in USB expansion cards in their NForce 2 boards to get normal use
out of their USB (both for storage and for instance using a scanner --
anything with a high data throughput), and it's not OS related either
since it occurs under both Windows and Linux. So there's been quite a
few problems with the chipsets in at least 3 unrelated systems that I
know of in my small circle of friends. I can assume it's not isolated
incidents.

So, if used just as interface to the CPU, it does a good job (no
complaints about stability). If used fully, there are problems.

I have the same MSI board, the Nvidia ethernet, the USB ports, the SATA
controller and the PATA controller work fine. I'm using Fedora Core 4 on
this system, FC3 work fine also. I'm not using the onboard sound, the box
came with an SB Audigy card, but everything else is working fine. It
sounds like your problem is Windows not the card. Do you have the latest
drivers installed? Also you might want to check your BIOS and update it if
necessary. Windows uses the BIOS much more than Linux does so a BIOS
problem is more likely to show up on a Windows system then it is on a
Linux box.
 
K

kony

Like I said, I've mainly had problems with the on-board things. My main
system is an NForce3-250 (K8N-Neo Platinum), and both the sound and gbit
lan are unuseable, as well as the "optimized" NVidia IDE driver which I
dare not install or my system goes south hard and fast with corruption
left and right.

The primary known issue is of the hardware firewall. I am
not discounting the problems you have, but when others with
the same chipset aren't having them, it rules out the
chipset as being solely to blame.

What other cards are you running, for example a video card
or other high bandwidth cards? You do of course realize one
card misbehaving badly may work, but cause another problem?

If I avoid using the onboard things (I have a PCI NIC installed and will
get a decent sound card once I get the cash for it) it runs fine and
stable. I'll wait with windows x64 until I have the sound card since
using directsound under winx64 actually crashes the chip (and
subsequently windows). Since the sound is an integral part of the
chipset it's not the motherboard manufacturer to blame here either. Not
that MSI has a bad name though.

Untrue, your sound problem can't be attributed to chipset
when others run their sound OK. Finding fault is about
looking at the variables, what is different but also what is
constant on other working systems (functions).

Next to that 2 different friends of mine, totally unrelated, have had to
put in USB expansion cards in their NForce 2 boards to get normal use
out of their USB (both for storage and for instance using a scanner --
anything with a high data throughput), and it's not OS related either
since it occurs under both Windows and Linux.

What specific boards?
Again it would have to be taken in the context of what the
variables are. Many people will randomly blame a
motherboard, or randomly blame windows, or whatever- they
never really know what was wrong and begin continually
blaming same part(s) out of a habit that never should have
started. I am not suggesting any nForce, nor any other
chipset for that matter is perfect, but they are usually not
as much of a problem as the OS, additional things integrated
onto a board, additional things plugged into the board, or
the bios.
So there's been quite a
few problems with the chipsets in at least 3 unrelated systems that I
know of in my small circle of friends. I can assume it's not isolated
incidents.

Do you assume others who have (take your pick of...) other
chipsets have every single function working right on their
system? Some may, as do some nForce owners, but typically
the more features a board has and more things plugged into
it, the more worn the OS installation, the more little bugs
pop up. Consider that it's fairly routine for OEMs to
suggest a complete wipe of the HDD and factory image
reinstalled for this very reason. Other times users just
dread doing a clean install of windows themselves.

So, if used just as interface to the CPU, it does a good job (no
complaints about stability). If used fully, there are problems.

So you say. Again, it's not the variable.
 
J

Jeremy Reaban

Mark said:
General said:
What problems have you seen with an Nforce chipset? I have three systems
with various generations of Nforce chipsets, an Nforce 3-150 in a laptop,
[snip]
Like I said, I've mainly had problems with the on-board things. My main
system is an NForce3-250 (K8N-Neo Platinum), and both the sound and gbit
lan are unuseable, as well as the "optimized" NVidia IDE driver which I
dare not install or my system goes south hard and fast with corruption
left and right.

If I avoid using the onboard things (I have a PCI NIC installed and will
get a decent sound card once I get the cash for it) it runs fine and
stable. I'll wait with windows x64 until I have the sound card since using
directsound under winx64 actually crashes the chip (and subsequently
windows). Since the sound is an integral part of the chipset it's not the
motherboard manufacturer to blame here either. Not that MSI has a bad name
though.

I have a NForce3-250 motherboard, Epox 8KDA3+ and I have no problems with
my onboard sound with Win x64. As long as you get the latest audio drivers,
anyway, I know I had some problems out of the box with Never Winter Nights
 
V

VanShania

This sounds like a rumor spread by computer repair guys at
futureshop/bestbuy so they cn rip off their customers.

--
XP2600@171 [email protected]
AIW9600XT, A7N8X-X
WD120gb + 80gb HD 8mb buffers
Plextor PX-712A, SB Live OEM
Thermaltake Lanfire, 420 Watt PS
Micrsoft Sidewinder Precision 2 Joystick
ViewSonic 19" A91f+ CRT
OverAll score 2066, cpu_score-2926
in 3DMark2005 basic 1078X768, No AA
 
R

Rhys

I've heard that nobody makes a chipset for AMD like nVidia does, and
that ATi's videocards are simply the best for gaming. Now, what
happens if you mix them around? Are there any problems mounting an ATi
card on an nVidia motherboard, or vice-versa? And, which of the two
configurations in the title would you choose?

Because I have years of satisfaction with ATI and because I live in
the town where they are headquartered, I chose the ATI Radeon X1600 XT
video card for my nVidia chipset Tyan Thunder S2895 dual Opteron
board.

It's a business graphics machine (2D, not 3D), and I am running under
Windows 2000 for the moment. When I migrate to XP 64 (a big jump in
applications as well as the new OS, loads of drivers, etc.), I will
consider dual GeForce cards to get the biggest kick out of my system.

But this is whipping along nicely at the moment.

R.
 
R

RJK

ATI graphics cards used to be a total nightmare regarding drivers, dunno if
they still are ?
....I won't touch'em, even with a barge pole !

Nvidia's huge all-in-one driver install that supports ALL their cards was
always, and i believe still is, pretty good.

....just yet one more consideration.

regards, Richard
 
A

Andrew

ATI graphics cards used to be a total nightmare regarding drivers, dunno if
they still are ?

That may have been the case many years ago, it certainly hasn't been
for the past 4 years while I have had experience of them.
 
K

kony

ATI graphics cards used to be a total nightmare regarding drivers, dunno if
they still are ?
...I won't touch'em, even with a barge pole !

Nvidia's huge all-in-one driver install that supports ALL their cards was
always, and i believe still is, pretty good.

What ends up happening is some people use ATI cards fine
then mistakenly believe that's evidence they have as
trouble-free a driver set as some others do. Not to imply
any drivers are perfect, but a lot of times you get people a
bit confused- they've so routinely had to jump through hoops
(like certain order of installing things or driver cleaners)
just to get things to work that they grudgingly try to claim
someone having problems "isn't doing it right" or "hasnt'
enough experience", which is true, IF the only parameter is
"what should be done to attempt fixing a problem driver
installation", rather than "if it weren't a problem would
any of this be necessary?".
 
R

RJK

....and your point is ? ....just kidding :)

It was a long time ago but, there used to be lots of labels on chips, on ATI
cards, with lengthy numbers on them, and you had to quote them all down the
phone to an ATI tech. support person ...hideous affair trying to pin down
the model and revision number etc..

As soon as I spotted that the Nvidia driver install did everything
automatically, on ALL of their cards, I stayed with Nvidia.

regards, Richard
 
R

Ralph Wade Phillips

Howdy!

I've heard that nobody makes a chipset for AMD like nVidia does, and
that ATi's videocards are simply the best for gaming. Now, what
happens if you mix them around? Are there any problems mounting an ATi
card on an nVidia motherboard, or vice-versa? And, which of the two
configurations in the title would you choose?

'Tis a nonsense question as phrased.

"Crossfire" is ATI's version of what ATI calls SLI - that is, a way
to interconnect two video boards to increase video performance.

I've used ATI video boards on nForce-based motherboards for at least
a year now, and since you'll have trouble finding an ATI-based motherboard
(note: they DO make motherboard chipsets, but they're rather scarce in the
open market), you should be able to uses a GeForce video board with any
motherboard.

Key note if you're looking to run Crossfire video is to have two
PCI-E x16 slots that support SLI. Very few nForce boards seem to have that
for some reason.

RwP
 

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