Question about storing metadata for scans

[me]

I know this is a scanning group and not a photo cataloging group, but
this is bugging me and wanted to know if it's something that bugs other
people and how they get around it.

OK, after scanning a photo or slide, I want to keep pertinent info with
that scanned picture (stuff written on the back of the photo, dates on
the slide, what I remember about the location and people, etc). But I
want to make sure it's in a format that I access easilly in the future
or by someone else who may not have the same platform or programs I do.
I have Windows XP and if you right click and choose properties and click
summary, you have some categories to store info (e.g., title, keywords,
comments). I believe XP stores it in EXIF format. OK, so I want to
import this info into let's say Photoshop Elements. Elements says it
can read EXIF data (although it saves as XMP), so I figure the info I
typed directly into the photo from Windows XP will import into Photoshop
Elements - WRONG! I couldn't get any of the data I added using the
"Properties" dialog to import into Elements. OK, so I test if what I
type into Photoshop Elements (saved as XMP format) will import into
other photo database/cataloging programs. I fill in some tags and
description info, exit Elements and open ACDSee9 and PhotoImpression5,
and neither one would read the info supposedly saved as XMP by Elements
(or for that matter, the ExIF info entered via Windows properties
dialog). Is this something that happens to others or am I the only one
experiencing this or is frustrated by it? I want to make darn sure I
don't have to re-enter all this info twice and anyone else getting
copies of the photos will also be able to access the info, but don't
know a sure-fire way to accomplish this without picking one photo
program and having to stick to it forever and anyone else wanting to
access the info has to buy the same program. Comments, suggestions?
Thanks!

 

[CSM1]

I know this is a scanning group and not a photo cataloging group, but
this is bugging me and wanted to know if it's something that bugs other
people and how they get around it.

OK, after scanning a photo or slide, I want to keep pertinent info with
that scanned picture (stuff written on the back of the photo, dates on
the slide, what I remember about the location and people, etc). But I
want to make sure it's in a format that I access easilly in the future
or by someone else who may not have the same platform or programs I do.
I have Windows XP and if you right click and choose properties and click
summary, you have some categories to store info (e.g., title, keywords,
comments). I believe XP stores it in EXIF format. OK, so I want to
import this info into let's say Photoshop Elements. Elements says it
can read EXIF data (although it saves as XMP), so I figure the info I
typed directly into the photo from Windows XP will import into Photoshop
Elements - WRONG! I couldn't get any of the data I added using the
"Properties" dialog to import into Elements. OK, so I test if what I
type into Photoshop Elements (saved as XMP format) will import into
other photo database/cataloging programs. I fill in some tags and
description info, exit Elements and open ACDSee9 and PhotoImpression5,
and neither one would read the info supposedly saved as XMP by Elements
(or for that matter, the ExIF info entered via Windows properties
dialog). Is this something that happens to others or am I the only one
experiencing this or is frustrated by it? I want to make darn sure I
don't have to re-enter all this info twice and anyone else getting
copies of the photos will also be able to access the info, but don't
know a sure-fire way to accomplish this without picking one photo
program and having to stick to it forever and anyone else wanting to
access the info has to buy the same program. Comments, suggestions?
Thanks!

The Windows XP file information is only valid in Windows XP. It is not a
part of the photo file.

If you use Irfanview, you can store comments in TIF and Jpeg files. And you
can store information in the photo TIF or Jpeg file in a IPTC format. Both
are stored as part of the Photo file. EXIF is only written by digital
cameras. EXIF is read by most photo software, but you can not change the
information contained in EXIF.
http://www.irfanview.net


There are also photo cataloging programs that store a database of
information about photos.
I use one from Cerious named ThumbsPlus Pro 7
http://www.cerious.com

Check the Cerious News Groups for user discussions.
http://www.cerious.com/cgi-bin/dnewsweb.exe

 

[Steve]

I agree with CSM1 - you shouldn't attempt to embed this data in the
EXIF data in the files -- and you should not rely on XPs built-in
metadata support to do anything that is standard.

You should store this information in IPTC data within the TIFF or JPG
files. Most photo databasing and more capable photo browser programs
can read and write this data. For example, Adobe Bridge, iview Media
Pro, iMatch and Extensis Portfolio are 4 such programs. This data
format is a standard that should be understood widely and into the
future.

You do need to make sure that you choose IPTC fields which are
appropriate to store the information you want to capture. I would
suggest that you read the "DAM Book" by Peter Krogh. This book
discusses metadata and its uses and gives sample workflows using iView
and Adobe Bridge (though this should translate pretty easily to other
programs). With a little work up front to establish a procedure that
matches your needs, this can be pretty painless to do.

Regards -

--Steve
http://www.pixmonix.com

 

[me]

Thanks for the reply. I guess I was showing my ignorance by using the
term EXIF. I guess I meant to say pre-XMP IPTC data (if that's even
correct). But nonetheless, I didn't know the info typed into the
properties box in Windows XP isn't transferable (I think I read
somewhere that in VISTA it is XMP standard). I do have Irfanview but
hadn't downloaded the plugins (which I now did). I assume the "IPTC
info" in Irfanview is XMP although I didn't see it specifically
identified as XMP in the help file. I was able to store info in
Irfanview and it was there when I imported into Photoshop Elements
(except the info in one field of my trial of 5 photos didn't show up, I
guess it's not a perfect system even when it "works"). Still couldn't
import into ACDSee 9 which is suppose to be able to import IPTC metadata
(maybe it's only the pre-XMP version(?)).

Thanks for helping me understand this better.

Do you know of a program that would allow me to enter the IPTC info in a
spreadsheet format so I could do a bunch at a time instead of the way I
did it in Irfanview (opening each photo individually, and having to
click the "i" button, then click the "IPTC info" button and then
clicking each tab to get to the two or three fields I want to add info
to). I'd like to be able to just have a window with the fields in
columnar form (and be able to choose which fields are shown) and the
photo names in rows and add the info that way. Know of any programs
that allow entering IPTC data that way? I know Irfanview has a batch
option but that's only if I want to add the same entry to the same field
in multiple photos. Thanks again!!

 

[CSM1]

Thanks for the reply. I guess I was showing my ignorance by using the
term EXIF. I guess I meant to say pre-XMP IPTC data (if that's even
correct). But nonetheless, I didn't know the info typed into the
properties box in Windows XP isn't transferable (I think I read
somewhere that in VISTA it is XMP standard). I do have Irfanview but
hadn't downloaded the plugins (which I now did). I assume the "IPTC
info" in Irfanview is XMP although I didn't see it specifically
identified as XMP in the help file. I was able to store info in
Irfanview and it was there when I imported into Photoshop Elements
(except the info in one field of my trial of 5 photos didn't show up, I
guess it's not a perfect system even when it "works"). Still couldn't
import into ACDSee 9 which is suppose to be able to import IPTC metadata
(maybe it's only the pre-XMP version(?)).

Irfanview uses the standard comment and IPTC data fields. It is not XMP.
The same fields that have been standard for some time.

Here is some information on IPTC and some on how it works.
http://www.controlledvocabulary.com/imagedatabases/iptc_naa.html

You can find the IPTC spec here.
http://www.iptc.org/IIM/

Click on Specification, Version 4.1 (on the right).

The comment field is a part of the Jpeg header field.
http://www.obrador.com/essentialjpeg/headerinfo.htm

Thanks for helping me understand this better.

Do you know of a program that would allow me to enter the IPTC info in a
spreadsheet format so I could do a bunch at a time instead of the way I
did it in Irfanview (opening each photo individually, and having to
click the "i" button, then click the "IPTC info" button and then
clicking each tab to get to the two or three fields I want to add info
to). I'd like to be able to just have a window with the fields in
columnar form (and be able to choose which fields are shown) and the
photo names in rows and add the info that way. Know of any programs
that allow entering IPTC data that way? I know Irfanview has a batch
option but that's only if I want to add the same entry to the same field
in multiple photos. Thanks again!!

One such program is ThumbsPlus from Cerious.com
It uses an Access 2000 format Database to store thumbnails, keywords,
annotations, and user created fields.

It will import from standard Comment and IPTC fields.
http://www.cerious.com/

 

[me]

The Windows XP file information is only valid in Windows XP. It is not a
part of the photo file.

Found out that Microsoft has just released something called Photo Info 1.0
which allows you to read and edit IPTC info directly from Windows. It's
free and it's here:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b038d4b5-1d88-
437c-9f54-1fb0d210b5ef&DisplayLang=en

 

[Maris V. Lidaka Sr.]

You can also try Exifer for Windows

http://www.exifer.friedemann.info/

a.. Supports EXIF (up to 2.2) and IPTC data in JPEG and TIFF files
a.. Reading and displaying of makernotes by Canon, Casio, Fuji, Minolta,
Nikon and Olympus
a.. Backing up, restoring and comparing metadata (EXIF/IPTC)
a.. Editing of metadata (for JPEG files only)
a.. Inserting EXIF data from THM files (for JPEG files only)
a.. Creating/inserting/rotating EXIF thumbnails (for JPEG files only)
a.. Customizeable view of metadata
a.. Export/import of metadata (CSV, Canto Cumulus, descript.ion files)
a.. Renaming and redating with various formats
a.. Lossless rotation (for JPEG files only)
a.. Cropping (with aspect ratio)
a.. Watermarks
a.. Slideshow
a.. Supports English and German language
a.. Runs under Windows 98/ME/NT/2000/XP

Maris