question about organizing installed programs

[name]

Hello.

Just a quick question. When running xp pro for a while, the list of
installed
programs in the start menu becomes rather long, so it becomes
difficult
to find programs easily.
So far, the solution I've applied to this problem was to go on the
system
disk to
\Documents and Settings\<my username>\Start Menu\Programs
and
\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs

and creating general directories like 'graphics', 'video', 'music',
'language',
'books', 'p2p', etc.. so I can organize my installed programs a bit
into various categories.
Is this a safe way of organizing access to the installed software via
the 'start menu' or is there a better way to do this?
I mean manually moving those entries in the 'start menu' via the
windows explorer to store them in custom folders.
I presume it's mostly shortcuts that are stored in the aforementioned
'\Start Menu\Programs' folders, so I thought that moving them around a
bit shouldn't really matter.

Kind regards and thanks for any feedback, Niek

 

[Gary S. Terhune]

It's a perfectly acceptable and safe procedure to organize your Startup
shortcuts in this manner. I do it myself to a lesser extent.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

Hello.

Just a quick question. When running xp pro for a while, the list of
installed programs in the start menu becomes rather long, so it
becomes difficult to find programs easily.

So far, the solution I've applied to this problem was to go on the
system disk to \Documents and Settings\<my username>
\Start Menu\Programs and \Documents and Settings\All Users
\Start Menu\Programs and creating general directories like
'graphics', 'video', 'music', 'language', 'books', 'p2p', etc.. so I
can organize my installed programs a bit into various categories.

Is this a safe way of organizing access to the installed software
via the 'start menu' or is there a better way to do this?

I mean manually moving those entries in the 'start menu' via the
windows explorer to store them in custom folders.

I presume it's mostly shortcuts that are stored in the
aforementioned '\Start Menu\Programs' folders, so I thought that
moving them around a bit shouldn't really matter.

Kind regards and thanks for any feedback, Niek

It is almost always shortcuts...
And that *is* the way you oranize your start menu.

 

[name]

It is almost always shortcuts...
And that *is* the way you oranize your start menu.

Yeah, but it's a bit weird, since I'm not exactly sure if it makes any
difference if, for instance, I would create a folder in [...\All Users
\Start Menu\Programs] and I move a program into that folder that used
to be located in [...\<my username>\Start Menu\Programs]. Does that
mean other users on my computer would get access to a program that
happens to be installed for my user account with a potential error
message as a result when they try to run it?
So, it mystifies me a bit how windows keeps track internally of the
group of users
for which an application is installed when I move the shortcuts for
such applications around in the start menu (dragging and dropping
program icons to folders in the start menu).

 

[Shenan Stanley]

Just a quick question. When running xp pro for a while, the list
of installed programs in the start menu becomes rather long, so it
becomes difficult to find programs easily.

So far, the solution I've applied to this problem was to go on the
system disk to \Documents and Settings\<my username>
\Start Menu\Programs and \Documents and Settings\All Users
\Start Menu\Programs and creating general directories like
'graphics', 'video', 'music', 'language', 'books', 'p2p', etc..
so I can organize my installed programs a bit into various
categories.

Is this a safe way of organizing access to the installed software
via the 'start menu' or is there a better way to do this?

I mean manually moving those entries in the 'start menu' via the
windows explorer to store them in custom folders.

I presume it's mostly shortcuts that are stored in the
aforementioned '\Start Menu\Programs' folders, so I thought that
moving them around a bit shouldn't really matter.

It is almost always shortcuts...
And that *is* the way you oranize your start menu.

Yeah, but it's a bit weird, since I'm not exactly sure if it makes
any difference if, for instance, I would create a folder in
[...\All Users \Start Menu\Programs] and I move a program into that
folder that used to be located in [...\<my username>\Start
Menu\Programs]. Does that mean other users on my computer would get
access to a program that happens to be installed for my user
account with a potential error message as a result when they try to
run it?

Well - if other users do not have the necessary permissions to run the
application - why would you ever put the shortcut to said application in a
start menu which they have access to? (All Users)

So, it mystifies me a bit how windows keeps track internally of the
group of users for which an application is installed when I move the
shortcuts for such applications around in the start menu (dragging
and dropping program icons to folders in the start menu).

Windows doesn't.

When you installed said application - the application itself (and how it is
written) will determine who can/cannot run it. While it installs it either
accepts the file/folder permissions (as well as registry permissions) on
your machine - or changes them as needed.

Essentially - let's say you installed a simplistic program and it is
(miraculously these days) completely self-contained in one folder. You
literally could copy that one folder from one machine to another and it
would function. Now let;s say you changed the folder permissions where that
one application was housed so that only one user (your account) had access
to that folder - but you left the shortcut to run that application in the
All Users start menu. Whenever anyone but your user account tried to run
that application from that shortcut - it would fail.

Things get more and more complicated as you add many folders and many
registry entries and many shared common files to the mix. Most of the
writers of modern applications take that into account for you - relieving
you of such concerns.

 

[gigodemon]

Hi,

You may easy do all of this using Tidy Start Menu program -
http://www.tidystartmenu.com

But you should think twice before create categories. After you create
categories you should keep it in order all the time. So I recommend
use Vista Start Menu program it's specially developed for large
program amount.
http://www.vistastartmenu.com

 

[name]

Just a quick question. When running xp pro for a while, the list
of installed programs in the start menu becomes rather long, so it
becomes difficult to find programs easily.

So far, the solution I've applied to this problem was to go on the
system disk to \Documents and Settings\<my username>
\Start Menu\Programs and \Documents and Settings\All Users
\Start Menu\Programs and creating general directories like
'graphics', 'video', 'music', 'language', 'books', 'p2p', etc..
so I can organize my installed programs a bit into various
categories.

Is this a safe way of organizing access to the installed software
via the 'start menu' or is there a better way to do this?

I mean manually moving those entries in the 'start menu' via the
windows explorer to store them in custom folders.

I presume it's mostly shortcuts that are stored in the
aforementioned '\Start Menu\Programs' folders, so I thought that
moving them around a bit shouldn't really matter.

It is almost always shortcuts...
And that *is* the way you oranize your start menu.

Yeah, but it's a bit weird, since I'm not exactly sure if it makes
any difference if, for instance, I would create a folder in
[...\All Users \Start Menu\Programs] and I move a program into that
folder that used to be located in [...\<my username>\Start
Menu\Programs]. Does that mean other users on my computer would get
access to a program that happens to be installed for my user
account with a potential error message as a result when they try to
run it?

Well - if other users do not have the necessary permissions to run the
application - why would you ever put the shortcut to said application in a
start menu which they have access to? (All Users)

It might happen accidentally. If I have a graphics program installed
for single-user
use and create a graphics folder for it, I might accidentally move a
different graphics
program in that same graphics folder later on, not realizing that the
two graphics programs
differ in the respect that only one of them is a single-user program,
whereas the other is
installed for all users on the computer.
After all, when you move shortcuts around in the start-menu, you can't
see where the folders
in the start menu are located exactly in 'documents and settings'.

Windows doesn't.

Surely it must. When I create a folder in
'documents and settings\<user specification>\start menu\programs',
it will show up in the start menu, but windows does still link the
shortcut for that particular
folder to specific location in 'documents and settings' (for instance
whether it's in
the all-users folder or specific single-user folders).
I'm mystified how it manages to keep track of where the shortcuts are
located, since they ought
to remain in their respective 'user' folder. If a shortcut is in a
particular user folder, it should remain
in that user folder even when I move it around to a different folder
in the start menu.
For instance, moving a shortcut from
'documents and settings\<user A>\start menu\programs'
to
'documents and settings\<user A>\start menu\programs\graphics'

I reckon it would be a problem if I create a 'graphics' folder in
'documents and settings\<user A>\start menu\programs'
and try to move a program to it that used to be located in
'documents and settings\<user B>\start menu\programs'.
The issue is that in the start menu, you just see the folder
'graphics' and you don't
see that it might actually be located in

 

[name]

Just a quick question. When running xp pro for a while, the list
of installed programs in thestartmenubecomes rather long, so it
becomes difficult to find programs easily.
So far, the solution I've applied to this problem was to go on the
system disk to \Documents and Settings\<my username>
\StartMenu\Programs and \Documents and Settings\All Users
\StartMenu\Programs and creating general directories like
'graphics', 'video', 'music', 'language', 'books', 'p2p', etc..
so I can organize my installed programs a bit into various
categories.
Is this a safe way of organizing access to the installed software
via the 'startmenu' or is there a better way to do this?
I mean manually moving those entries in the 'startmenu' via the
windows explorer to store them in custom folders.
I presume it's mostly shortcuts that are stored in the
aforementioned '\StartMenu\Programs' folders, so I thought that
moving them around a bit shouldn't really matter.

It is almost always shortcuts...
And that *is* the way you oranize yourstartmenu.

Yeah, but it's a bit weird, since I'm not exactly sure if it makes
any difference if, for instance, I would create a folder in
[...\All Users \StartMenu\Programs] and I move a program into that
folder that used to be located in [...\<my username>\Start
Menu\Programs]. Does that mean other users on my computer would get
access to a program that happens to be installed for my user
account with a potential error message as a result when they try to
run it?

Well - if other users do not have the necessary permissions to run the
application - why would you ever put the shortcut to said application in a
startmenuwhich they have access to? (All Users)

It might happen accidentally. If I have a graphics program installed
for single-user
use and create a graphics folder for it, I might accidentally move a
different graphics
program in that same graphics folder later on, not realizing that the
two graphics programs
differ in the respect that only one of them is a single-user program,
whereas the other is
installed for all users on the computer.
After all, when you move shortcuts around in thestart-menu, you can't
see where the folders
in thestartmenuare located exactly in 'documents and settings'.

Windows doesn't.

Surely it must. [..]

Let me illustrate this with a more concrete example. On my computer, I
have a single user called 'name'.
Now I open two windows at the following two locations A and B:
(A): C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs
(B): C:\Documents and Settings\name\Start Menu\Programs

When I create a folder 'test' in location A, this folder will be
visible in the start menu as an empty submenu.
Now when I move a program shortcut X, that is located at B (and not at
A) to this 'test' folder in the start menu,
windows will actually create another folder 'test' in location B and
move the program X to this location.
For clarity, I mean moving in the sense of dragging and dropping the
shortcut X in the start menu from the
main programs menu to the 'test' submenu.

So I thought that perhaps windows would move X from
C:\Documents and Settings\name\Start Menu\Programs\X
to
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs\test\X

but it actually creates a new 'test' folder and subsequently moves X
from
C:\Documents and Settings\name\Start Menu\Programs\X
to
C:\Documents and Settings\name\Start Menu\Programs\test\X

Which demonstrates my point that windows does keep track of the exact
location in 'documents and settings' despite that this isn't visible
when you look at folders (submenus) in the start menu.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

Let me illustrate this with a more concrete example. On my
computer, I have a single user called 'name'.
Now I open two windows at the following two locations A and B:
(A): C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs
(B): C:\Documents and Settings\name\Start Menu\Programs

When I create a folder 'test' in location A, this folder will be
visible in the start menu as an empty submenu.
Now when I move a program shortcut X, that is located at B (and not
at A) to this 'test' folder in the start menu,
windows will actually create another folder 'test' in location B and
move the program X to this location.
For clarity, I mean moving in the sense of dragging and dropping the
shortcut X in the start menu from the
main programs menu to the 'test' submenu.

So I thought that perhaps windows would move X from
C:\Documents and Settings\name\Start Menu\Programs\X
to
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs\test\X

but it actually creates a new 'test' folder and subsequently moves X
from
C:\Documents and Settings\name\Start Menu\Programs\X
to
C:\Documents and Settings\name\Start Menu\Programs\test\X

Which demonstrates my point that windows does keep track of the
exact location in 'documents and settings' despite that this isn't
visible when you look at folders (submenus) in the start menu.

Let me say that either you badly worded your original question or I badly
misunderstood it.

Yes - Windows XP does keep track of where things are stored in its file
system. Nothing new there. It also combines the start menu from the
currently logged on user with that of the All Users start menu (and desktop
for that matter) to generate what said user sees while they are logged on.

There is no magic there. It just takes everything that is in the All Users
desktop/start menu folders and combines it with the currently logged on
users desktop/start menu to produce what you see. If you happen to have
identically named folders - you get only ONE folder by that name visible (in
the start menu of desktop). Nothing too magical there either.

When you are dragging/dropping (to the start menu/desktop) - it assumes you
want to do that *as the user* - so it puts the items in that users' profile.
Logical - as you are logged in as that user. So yes - it creates the folder
it said you wanted it in (if it did not already exist) in that users profile
and copies/moves shortcuts appropriately. The only reason it creates it
would be that you told it you wanted it in that folder - you were doing it
as User X and moving it to User X's desktop/start menu.. If you wanted it on
All Users' desktop/start menu - you would drag/drop to the All Users
Desktop/Start Menu folder.

Try this:

Start button --> Run --> type in:

Start Menu

--> Click OK. Unless your machine is in a domain (I am unsure why that
effects it) - it will open the current user's start menu folder in the
Documents and Settings Directory.

Start button --> Run --> type in:

Desktop

--> Click OK. Unless your machine is in a domain (I am unsure why that
effects it) - it will open the current user's desktop folder in the
Documents and Settings Directory.

Essentially showing that is how Windows is going to interpret any drag/drop
actions taken while logged in as said user. To *assume* you want things in
the "All Users" area would be foolish at best - because with the rights done
a certain way - any one user could drastically effect all other users too
easily. That's why youhave a default user - so that new users can all be
configured a certain way and have certain icons on their desktop/start menu
the first time they log on (as well as many many other settings.)

BTW - you can quickly open the All Users profile folder by:

Start button --> Run --> type in:

%AllUsersProfile%

--> Click OK.

Or your currently logged on user profile folder by:

Start button --> Run --> type in:

%UserProfile%

--> Click OK.

Anyway - it's not so much 'keeping track' as 'working by design'. It
assumes (correctly) that when you are logged in as User A - all shortcuts
created as User A should show up for User A only *unless* you deliberately
put said shortcut in All Users or Default User. The first would immediately
show up on every users of that computer's desktop/start menu and the latter
would show up on all NEW users desktops/start menus...

In other words - in order to mess with everyone on the computer - you have
to take an extra step.