Question about monitor hazards

[Raz]

The company I work for decided to set up our monitors in "portrait
mode". The only problem is that we use regular CRT monitor not those
fancy swivel LCD's. In other words the monitor stand on their side.
When I tried to use one of those setup monitors I felt sick and
immediately went to a normal one. I know other people didn't like it
any better. What I need is some information regarding potential
hazards using a setup like this, both to people and hardware (I don't
think they care that much about us workers). So if anybody can provide
me with facts, opinion, experiences preferably some links (on this
subject) or references I'd greatly appreciate it.

Raz

 

[Bob Myers]

The company I work for decided to set up our monitors in "portrait
mode". The only problem is that we use regular CRT monitor not those
fancy swivel LCD's. In other words the monitor stand on their side.
When I tried to use one of those setup monitors I felt sick and
immediately went to a normal one. I know other people didn't like it
any better. What I need is some information regarding potential
hazards using a setup like this, both to people and hardware (I don't
think they care that much about us workers). So if anybody can provide
me with facts, opinion, experiences preferably some links (on this
subject) or references I'd greatly appreciate it.

I don't know of any particular problems with this sort
of arrangement from an ergonomic standpoint, unless
rotating the monitor results in convergence, etc., problems
from the now-unusual (from the monitor's perspective)
local magnetic fields.

I would be more concerned about operating a monitor
in this orientation from the standpoint of possible thermal
problems with the monitor - i.e., the impact of this sort
of thing on the monitor reliability. Unless some additional
(forced-air, perhaps) cooling is provided, there's a fair
chance you're operating some components above what
they were originally intended for.

Bob M.

 

[Raz]

I don't know of any particular problems with this sort
of arrangement from an ergonomic standpoint, unless
rotating the monitor results in convergence, etc., problems
from the now-unusual (from the monitor's perspective)
local magnetic fields.

I would be more concerned about operating a monitor
in this orientation from the standpoint of possible thermal
problems with the monitor - i.e., the impact of this sort
of thing on the monitor reliability. Unless some additional
(forced-air, perhaps) cooling is provided, there's a fair
chance you're operating some components above what
they were originally intended for.

Bob M.

Thank you for the info. I still don't understand why I feel noxious
when sitting in front of the monitor. I used that workstation all the
time and never had a problem. I was wondering if it could be something
with the way the screen refreshes. Sure it's subliminal but that
doesn't mean there's no effect. From ergonomic standpoint there's a
problem with the height of the monitor. Before it stood on its own
stand at about the correct eye level and now when put on its side we
have to rely on different methods to raise it (if at all).

Raz

 

[Bob Myers]

Thank you for the info. I still don't understand why I feel noxious
when sitting in front of the monitor. I used that workstation all the
time and never had a problem. I was wondering if it could be something
with the way the screen refreshes. Sure it's subliminal but that
doesn't mean there's no effect. From ergonomic standpoint there's a
problem with the height of the monitor. Before it stood on its own
stand at about the correct eye level and now when put on its side we
have to rely on different methods to raise it (if at all).

Well, that might certainly be part of the problem - it's
just not where you want it to be for good viewing. It
might also be in part that you're just bugged that the
thing is on its side - i.e., it's just NOT "right," not the
way your eyes "want" to see it, and perhaps there are
some subtle cues (orientation of labels, say) that's
reinforcing this feeling. What's driving the desire to
operate these things in a portrait mode in the first place?

Bob M.

 

[Bob Niland]

The company I work for decided to set up our monitors
in "portrait mode". The only problem is that we use
regular CRT monitor not those fancy swivel LCD's.

Unless the monitor is designed for portrait use, doing
so is not wise. As already mentioned, there are thermal
risks, ergonomic clue issues, and easily possible
convergence (color registration) problems.

The thermal risk includes not only shorter monitor
life, but cook-off of annoying gasses from overheated
components, which might explain early user reactions.

If the monitor was sold in northern and southern
hemisphere versions, it does not want to be run sideways.
Beam(s)-to-mask mis-reg will aggravate any sub-pixel effects.
Aperture-grill (Trinitron) masks might even be subject
to wire-sag away from the tension bands, further
exacerbating color reg problems.

There are also structural considerations. The monitor's
sides may not be up to the task of supporting the mass.
CRT bottles are heavy. There are safety issues here.

There may be further visual considerations. An older monitor
may have a low refresh rate with visible flicker that is
more aggravating to view if rotated 90 deg.

For port mode, use only displays designed for port mode.
If you can't get the pointy-haired-bosses to reconsider,
perhaps it's time to update the resume.

 

[Bob Knowlden]

What's the refresh rate setting? (Display control panel.)

I find 60 Hz irritating, but I can live with 75. Some people claim that they
need higher yet. Nausea, I've never gotten, but I belong to the insensitive
half of humanity (males). (I have no idea what your gender is from your
post.)

My major concern would be the monitor falling off the table. Imploding CRTs,
flying glass, crushed feet, electrocution, all that sort of thing.

I haven't heard much about "radiation" from monitors for some years. (This
was low-frequency electromagnetic radiation from the deflection coils and
other electronics, not ionizing radiation like X-rays.) I used to see ads
for a glove-box sort of device intended to shield a keyboard user from
fields. It's just as well that I never saw one in use. I might have hurt
myself laughing, and offended the user as well.

Good luck.

Bob Knowlden

Address may be scrambled. Replace nkbob with bobkn.

 

[Raz]

For port mode, use only displays designed for port mode.
If you can't get the pointy-haired-bosses to reconsider,
perhaps it's time to update the resume.

Thanks for the information. Already started working on that resume
part but still too lazy to start a new job quest.

Raz

 

[Raz]

What's driving the desire to operate these things in a portrait mode in the first place?

Thanks again. I suppose it's not going to be easy convining the people
in charge that they are wrong. As we work in publishing they believe
(and are probably right) that it'll make work easier and improve
productivity. The only problem is that they're too cheap or plainly
don't care about their workers to invest in high quality equipment. In
the long and short run it'll cost them in productivity at least by me
and maybe then they'll realize their mistake.

Raz

 

[Raz]

What's the refresh rate setting? (Display control panel.)

The refresh rating is 85Hz but I don't know if the software installed
(pivot something) masses with that. Anyway there is no flicker but as
I understand it although the brain can't perceive the refresh of the
screen it doesn't mean that there's no effect. I'm sure that there's a
good reason manufacturers decided to refresh top-down and not
left-right.

My major concern would be the monitor falling off the table. Imploding CRTs,
flying glass, crushed feet, electrocution, all that sort of thing.

That'll be one way of ridding ourselves from this nuisance but there's
no way someone will accidentally drop a screen off the table

I haven't heard much about "radiation" from monitors for some years.

I'm not concerned about that either. Besides, the only difference now
is that the same monitor is on its side. Whatever it omits now is the
same as it did before.

Raz

 

[Bob Myers]

The refresh rating is 85Hz but I don't know if the software installed
(pivot something) masses with that. Anyway there is no flicker but as
I understand it although the brain can't perceive the refresh of the
screen it doesn't mean that there's no effect. I'm sure that there's a
good reason manufacturers decided to refresh top-down and not
left-right.

Yes, but it's not as complicated as you might think. The reason
the refresh goes top-down is that these things are normally used
in the landscapce mode, and so scanning in the normal way
(top-down slow, left-right fast) makes for a lower horizontal
scan rate (fewer lines per frame) and so holds power and cost
and such down.

Bob M.

 

[Not Gimpy Anymore]

Yes, but it's not as complicated as you might think. The reason
the refresh goes top-down is that these things are normally used
in the landscapce mode, and so scanning in the normal way
(top-down slow, left-right fast) makes for a lower horizontal
scan rate (fewer lines per frame) and so holds power and cost
and such down.

Bob M.

I concur there are no known Human Factors reasons for feeling noxious
if the scan direction is rotated 90 degrees - I'd strongly suspect a more
subjective reaction to change as a contributing factor. If that seems to
sound right, then updating the resume may be the only way to escape it.
Using the pivot software does not change the basic direction of the
raster
scan on the tube - it just reorients the bitmap scanning - so there is a
possibility
that you are sensitive to conflicting cues (not conscious) as Bob mentioned
earlier.
Since there as no mention of geometric distortion, I take it that is dealt
with
properly by the portrait software - circles still look like circles?
Kinda have to wonder if some manager got sold on the pivot software
without
any real foundation....
Ergonomically, as long as the top of the display is at or below eye
level, there
should be no viewing issue - if we have to tilt our head back to read parts
of the
screen, that can contribute to fatigue.

It's not easy to draw an accurate conclusion given the data at hand -
wish there
was a Human Factorist with enough interest to do a study - but then it'd
probably
just anger the management... About all we can say collectively so far is
that nobody
can attest to knowledge of any known hazard for the configuration, even
though I
doubt that any of us would ever use such ourselves.

FWIW, I DID once see such a configuration - in a Sears Portrait studio
(Pun NOT
intended....). The monitor was mounted sideways to show the image from the
camera.
But the operator was not viewing it continuously - only randomly.

NGA

 

[Raz]

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 05:42:28 GMT, "Not Gimpy Anymore"

Thank you all for responding. To sum things, there's no apparent known
health reason not to use a regular landscape CRT at a portrait
position. There are some hardware consideration but nothing major. I
suppose the headaches and noxious feeling some people including myself
experienced stemmed from subjective experience or unique setup which
should over time work itself out. Well nothing left to do but to
appeal to management logic which is kind of pointless. Oh well...

 

[Nerdillius Maximus]

the first place?

Thanks again. I suppose it's not going to be easy convining the people
in charge that they are wrong. As we work in publishing they believe
(and are probably right) that it'll make work easier and improve
productivity. The only problem is that they're too cheap or plainly
don't care about their workers to invest in high quality equipment. In
the long and short run it'll cost them in productivity at least by me
and maybe then they'll realize their mistake.

Nah, don't waste your time arguing with the pinheads. Lumbergh'll just move
your desk to the basement and confiscate your red Swingline ("Office
Space"), and get some hungry, less-than-conscientious third-world temp to
replace you, or outsource it all to India or something. Never overestimate
your worth in your corporate desk job, unless you are the boss, in which
case they all do it as a matter of lack of principle...

Unfortunately, this means, like it or not, if you want something done right,
you'll have to do it yourself. Which means, most likely, buying your own
swivel LCD and taking it with you in a padded briefcase. And documenting its
purchase in case management tries to glom it off of you...

I hope this wasn't posted from work, for the sake of your job future. Some
of these middle-management wackoffs apparently have nothing better to do
than sit there monitoring employee dissent. Which is one of the reasons why
I work for myself. I figure any company who exhibits a lack of concern for
my welfare, or who does not reward me for my skills, rather expects more out
of me when I bend a little, does not deserve my effort...

I wonder what happens when a few pins of the monitor video connector are
connected somehow very briefly and unnoticeably to a wall socket, or if mass
monitor failures in the office happen in such a mysterious fashion...perhaps
the gentle and seemingly innocent suggestion (after the fact) that monitors
break when operated outside their intended design parameters might stymie
them enough to consider replacing them all with proper equipment...

I wonder if everyone said this was making them sick, and turned their
monitors the way they were manufactured to be oriented, who they'd fire
first before they eventually saw the light and capitulated...

I bet none of the management has their screens turned on their sides...

May be time for any self-respecting fellow to see the writing on the wall
and consider a venue or career change, before they start messing with your
overtime, benefits, and retirement plan...