DVI versus SVGA?


M

micky

I hope I've used the right nomenclature everywhere.

Is DVI sufficiently better than SVGA that a person who doesn't play
games, just reads and writes email and looks at rather ordinary
webpages, will notice the difference?

I think the DVI video card in my friend's computer is failing. (More
about that below**) and the monitor accepts both DVI and VGA input.

So I could either remove the video card and rely on the onboard SVGA
video, and for 5 or 10 dollars buy a male-VGA to male-VGA cable and
just use SVGA. Or for more money, 20 to 30 dollars, I
could replace the DVI card. It's a 7-year old computer and she
doesn't want to spend much money. Will she notice the difference?
(She's paying for it and may well balk at 25 dollars.)

She does watch movies from the internet, but she uses a smart TV in a
different room from the computer. . Does the computer monitor matter
at all in such a setup? If she were to try to watch the movie on the
computer, would SVGA be good enough?



**She has a monitor that goes dark for a second or two or four,
sometimes failrly often, and other times it works fine. She hasnt'
figured out a pattern to it. I've used the computer and it really is
annoying and should be fixed. .

Another friend of hers switched monitors and decided the monitor is
not the problem. I don't like taking his word for this, but my only
spare monitor is a CRT and it's too heavy to drag over to her house.
So I will take his word.

The possible problems, counting only parts I can replace, are the thin
screen Samsung 522A200B monitor and the video card, right?

She has a Dell Optiplex 745, which, amazingly to me, comes in 4 sizes
with the same name and number.

Mini-tower, desktop, small form factor, and Ultra-Small Form Factor

She has the small form factor. It has two slots and the video
card is in the PCI-express slot.

The current video card came with a cable splitter and I guess is
enough to run two monitors, but maybe because she has a smart tv?, I
don't think she'll ever use the second output. So can I just put in a
single output card? (I have examples of this, a low-profile PCI-E
card that will fit her computer, and sold under the Dell brand,, but I
tried to email them to myself from her house and she required a
password to send email!!! even though I could read her incoming mail
with no password!!! I hope she'll send me the email today. )

BTW, the current video card had a jack I've never seen before, about
16 rows of pins, 4 per row, with one pin missing from the fourth row.
Is there a name for this kind of jack?

Thanks a lot.
 
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P

Paul

micky said:
I hope I've used the right nomenclature everywhere.

Is DVI sufficiently better than SVGA that a person who doesn't play
games, just reads and writes email and looks at rather ordinary
webpages, will notice the difference?
I'm using VGA to an LCD monitor as I type this. I just zoomed in
with my bionic eyeball, and I can't see anything to complain about.
Back when I used the CRT instead of the LCD monitor, I used to get
some ghosting along one edge of the picture. I don't seem to see that
on my LCD. Maybe my bionic eyeball needs maintenance or something.

If the monitor resolution was 1920x1080, you might see a difference
in the visual quality (DVI would be better). At least on my monitor,
I don't see a problem at 1280x1024 with the VGA.
I think the DVI video card in my friend's computer is failing. (More
about that below**) and the monitor accepts both DVI and VGA input.

So I could either remove the video card and rely on the onboard SVGA
video, and for 5 or 10 dollars buy a male-VGA to male-VGA cable and
just use SVGA. Or for more money, 20 to 30 dollars, I
could replace the DVI card. It's a 7-year old computer and she
doesn't want to spend much money. Will she notice the difference?
(She's paying for it and may well balk at 25 dollars.)

She does watch movies from the internet, but she uses a smart TV in a
different room from the computer. . Does the computer monitor matter
at all in such a setup? If she were to try to watch the movie on the
computer, would SVGA be good enough?
What is a "smart TV" ? Is the TV streaming movies from some other
computer ? You'll need to be a bit more specific - even a make and
model number for the TV, would provide some hints as to how it works.
If it doesn't support streaming, then we know the TV isn't that smart.

Can you see how the smart TV is connected, what wiring it uses ?
Is it just a LAN based thing ? Or is there actually some kind of
video cable running to that TV set ?
**She has a monitor that goes dark for a second or two or four,
sometimes failrly often, and other times it works fine. She hasnt'
figured out a pattern to it. I've used the computer and it really is
annoying and should be fixed. .

Another friend of hers switched monitors and decided the monitor is
not the problem. I don't like taking his word for this, but my only
spare monitor is a CRT and it's too heavy to drag over to her house.
So I will take his word.
You might want to test her monitor, on your computer. Or on some
other known-good computer (i.e. some laptop output connector).

Going dark for a second or two, could be the video card driver
recovering from a problem. Is there anything of note in Event
Viewer ? Maybe there are some error messages waiting for you.

I'm a fan of booting alternate OSes. I'd use my Ubuntu USB key,
boot the computer, and see if the picture remains stable. If
it was the monitor, using the different OS, I would expect
to continue seeing the outage. If it is a video driver issue,
the frequency of blackouts might change. Or, disappear completely
(due to differing thermal profile, cooler running etc).

Also, now that I think of it, check to see if the cooling fan
on the Quadro is dead! It might have stopped spinning, and the
card could be overheating. You could try GPUZ, and check the
temperature. The card may have a passive heatsink, in which case
there's no fan to worry about. Every once in a while, someone
comes here with a card, where the fan melted. And that's why
the video card is so unstable.

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/SysInfo/GPU-Z/
The possible problems, counting only parts I can replace, are the thin
screen Samsung 522A200B monitor and the video card, right?
I'm not getting a hit in my search engine, for 522A200B.
Is there a hyphen in there somewhere ? Could you spiff up
that number for me ?
She has a Dell Optiplex 745, which, amazingly to me, comes in 4 sizes
with the same name and number.

Mini-tower, desktop, small form factor, and Ultra-Small Form Factor

She has the small form factor. It has two slots and the video
card is in the PCI-express slot.

The current video card came with a cable splitter and I guess is
enough to run two monitors, but maybe because she has a smart tv?, I
don't think she'll ever use the second output. So can I just put in a
single output card? (I have examples of this, a low-profile PCI-E
card that will fit her computer, and sold under the Dell brand,, but I
tried to email them to myself from her house and she required a
password to send email!!! even though I could read her incoming mail
with no password!!! I hope she'll send me the email today. )
The existing card could be a Quadro, with a DMS-59 connector on the
faceplate. The Y cable makes up for the fact there isn't enough room
on the faceplate, for two connectors.

You can get low profile video cards, with dual faceplates. This
works OK, if you have a spare slot in that machine, where the faceplate
can be fitted.

This $30 card, comes with three connectors on its regular sized faceplate.
But it also includes two low profile faceplates. One faceplate has room
for two connectors, the second faceplate has room for the VGA connector.
The VGA connector is on a ribbon cable, which is how the thing can be flexible
enough to be relocated. If the slot next to the video card was not
occupied, you can put the second faceplate there. Otherwise, you'd only
be able to use the HDMI and the DVI on the primary faceplate. Using a
DVI-I to VGA adapter, would allow getting at the VGA signals on the
DVI-I connector.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-150-655-16.jpg

http://products.xfxforce.com/en-us/Graphics_Cards/XFX_One_R-Series/ON-XFX1-PLS2
\
Output - DL-DVI-I : 1 <--- DL or Dual Link, means up to 2560x1600 via DVI,
and VGA is available via "DVI-I to VGA adapter"
Output - HDMI : 1
Output - VGA : 1 <--- Connector fits on
second low profile faceplate. Or, can be
left dangling or unplugged.

For $30, you would normally not get a "DVI-I to VGA adapter" included.
The two thumbscrews, hold this in place on the DVI-I connector on the
faceplate of the card. Then the VGA cable, plugs into the adapter.
I have a few of these I got with other video cards, so I wouldn't have
to buy one.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814999201
BTW, the current video card had a jack I've never seen before, about
16 rows of pins, 4 per row, with one pin missing from the fourth row.
Is there a name for this kind of jack?

Thanks a lot.
That's the DMS-59, suitable for solving the small faceplate problem,
and allowing the usage of a Y cable (two outputs at once in the
normal dual head way).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DMS-59.jpg

Paul
 
M

micky

I'm using VGA to an LCD monitor as I type this. I just zoomed in
with my bionic eyeball, and I can't see anything to complain about.
Back when I used the CRT instead of the LCD monitor, I used to get
some ghosting along one edge of the picture. I don't seem to see that
on my LCD. Maybe my bionic eyeball needs maintenance or something.
Good to hear.
If the monitor resolution was 1920x1080, you might see a difference
in the visual quality (DVI would be better). At least on my monitor,
I don't see a problem at 1280x1024 with the VGA.
I should have checked, but I sure doubt it. Almost all of her
settings are the default.
What is a "smart TV" ? Is the TV streaming movies from some other
computer ?
I've been trying to get that straight too, especially since she's
trying to talk me into buying one**.
You'll need to be a bit more specific - even a make and
model number for the TV, would provide some hints as to how it works.
If it doesn't support streaming, then we know the TV isn't that smart.
I'm sure it streams, from a wireless router. That's a LAN, right?

But I figure it must be able to show what's stored on the computer
also.
Can you see how the smart TV is connected, what wiring it uses ?
Is it just a LAN based thing ? Or is there actually some kind of
video cable running to that TV set ?



Going dark for a second or two, could be the video card driver
recovering from a problem. Is there anything of note in Event
Viewer ? Maybe there are some error messages waiting for you.
I should have looked at that too. Didn't think of it. I will do so.
I'm a fan of booting alternate OSes. I'd use my Ubuntu USB key,
boot the computer, and see if the picture remains stable. If
it was the monitor, using the different OS, I would expect
to continue seeing the outage. If it is a video driver issue,
the frequency of blackouts might change. Or, disappear completely
(due to differing thermal profile, cooler running etc).
I think I have some CD's with Ubuntu, and I have Hiram's whatever on
CD with some abridged form of Windows.
Also, now that I think of it, check to see if the cooling fan
on the Quadro is dead! It might have stopped spinning, and the
card could be overheating. You could try GPUZ, and check the
temperature. The card may have a passive heatsink, in which case
there's no fan to worry about. Every once in a while, someone
comes here with a card, where the fan melted. And that's why
the video card is so unstable.
I should have thought of this too, and the diagnosis method.

Although, the second time I used it, yesterday, it had been off for 30
minutes, and the blacking out started right away and got better after
5 minutes. So it's probably not heat.
http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/SysInfo/GPU-Z/


I'm not getting a hit in my search engine, for 522A200B.
Is there a hyphen in there somewhere ? Could you spiff up
that number for me ?
Can't read my own handwriting. S22A200B Sorry
Here's the manual.
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/201105/20110514175003125/BN46-00079A-03Eng.pdf

For some reason that probably doesn't apply to you, the last 3 pdf
files, from different domains, I've downloaded and which opened in
Firefox, only about 5 pages would show. I had to then, from the icon
at the top of the FF pdf page download the file to my computer, and
then I could read the entire pdf.

When the cable is DVI-D (with a wide flat "pin" but no other holes or
pins at one end) and the Y-connector that it connects to (or the new
DVI card) is DVI-I (with 4 pin holes and something that just looks
like a line in the picture, but might be a slot) , will the cable plug
into the Y-connector. Is the line between the 2 rows of 2 pins
actually a slot?


THIS SEEEMS TO BE THE ANSWER:
http://www.hisdigital.com/un/news_show-74.rhtml
"The long flat pin on a DVI-I connector is wider than the same pin on
a DVI-D connector, so it is not possible to connect a male DVI-I to a
female DVI-D by removing the 4 analog pins. It is possible, however,
to connect a male DVI-D cable to a female DVI-I connector. Many flat
panel LCD monitors have only the DVI-D connection so that a DVI-D male
to DVI-D male cable will suffice when connecting the monitor to a
computer's DVI-I female connector."

So I'm good to go with a; card with a female connector, whether it's
DVI-D or DVI-I. Right? Since the calbe is DVI-D and certainly
male too.

Using the terminology from this page:
http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&tbm=isch&tbnid=NIcKIs_BW_2rmM:&imgrefurl=http://www.overclock.net/t/1351331/shimian-dvi-i-vs-dvi-d&docid=a_S2oxiktrByQM&imgurl=http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1244110/flags/LL&w=440&h=261&ei=9fTqUdTJA6n84APLqoGoAg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:2,s:0,i:96&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=173&tbnw=292&start=0&ndsp=10&tx=147&ty=61&biw=1152&bih=672



These 2 paragraphs were my first attempt at asking the question in the
paragraphs above. You can probably ignore these 3 paragraphs, unless
the question above was also incomprehensible. ;-)
You don't have to dl the file to answer this question. On page 15 or
so the file, it shows the DVI calbe, with a portion of it
that is a 3 x 8 array of pins, and next to that is one flat piece of
metal, a "very wide pin" or socket, at each end of the cable.

But when I looked at the cable it looked like that where it connected
to the monitor, but at the other end, where it connected to the
Y-connector, the Y connector had a 3x8 array and a 2x2 array. Now
I'm not sure I actually looked at the cable, and not just the
Y-connector. And I think I assumed it was 2x2 pins and not one wide
flat piece of metal.

-------------------
The existing card could be a Quadro, with a DMS-59 connector on the
faceplate.
Yes, that must be it.
The Y cable makes up for the fact there isn't enough room
on the faceplate, for two connectors.
Yew, I get it.
You can get low profile video cards, with dual faceplates. This
works OK, if you have a spare slot in that machine, where the faceplate
can be fitted.
She doesn't need dual, I think. The computer came that way for some
reason. (I think her friend had used it before he gave it to her, or
maybe it was surplus at his job.)
This $30 card, comes with three connectors on its regular sized faceplate.
But it also includes two low profile faceplates. One faceplate has room
for two connectors, the second faceplate has room for the VGA connector.
The VGA connector is on a ribbon cable, which is how the thing can be flexible
enough to be relocated. If the slot next to the video card was not
occupied, you can put the second faceplate there.
Your guess is correct. The next slot is empty.
Otherwise, you'd only
be able to use the HDMI and the DVI on the primary faceplate. Using a
DVI-I to VGA adapter, would allow getting at the VGA signals on the
DVI-I connector.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-150-655-16.jpg

http://products.xfxforce.com/en-us/Graphics_Cards/XFX_One_R-Series/ON-XFX1-PLS2
\
Output - DL-DVI-I : 1 <--- DL or Dual Link, means up to 2560x1600 via DVI,
and VGA is available via "DVI-I to VGA adapter"
Output - HDMI : 1
Output - VGA : 1 <--- Connector fits on
second low profile faceplate. Or, can be
left dangling or unplugged.

For $30, you would normally not get a "DVI-I to VGA adapter" included.
The two thumbscrews, hold this in place on the DVI-I connector on the
faceplate of the card. Then the VGA cable, plugs into the adapter.
I have a few of these I got with other video cards, so I wouldn't have
to buy one.
I understand.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814999201


That's the DMS-59, suitable for solving the small faceplate problem,
and allowing the usage of a Y cable (two outputs at once in the
normal dual head way).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DMS-59.jpg
Aha. Well, now I'll know what it is.



** (OT: I would buy a smart tv if any of them had OUTput jacks for
the signal. But they seem to have only various kinds of INput
jacks, except for external speakers. Right now I have a DVDR with a
digital tuner (and a hard drive) and I use that to watch tv for the
whole house. 5 tv's connected by co-ax, with a couple signal
amplifers where too many splitters made the signal too weak*** so I
can watch the same thing even when I go from room to room.

If I could use a fancy tv to receive and detect tv signals from the
web, and then connect that to the DVDR and from there to the rest of
the house, that would be great, but like I say, there are no output
jacks. So the alternative is to buy several smart tvs and at 5 or
600 apiece that's a lot of money. )

***Actually, every two splitters, I need a signal amp. I've been
running these amps constantly for 30 years I don't think either has
failed,




Reference for me, from the webpage for the card you suggested.
"This card [The XFX One R-Series graphics card] will do it all from
playing games, to watching HD and Blu-Ray movies in 3D, to editing
photos and videos, to just improving your overall everyday
productivity by speeding up your applications from word processors to
spreadsheets. This card truly is the one card that does it all. "

ON-XFX1-PLS2
 
M

micky

You might want to test her monitor, on your computer. Or on some
other known-good computer (i.e. some laptop output connector).
She probably wouldn't let me take it out of the house. She got all
upset Thursday night when I had her disconnect the calble to see what
the pins looked like, and then she couldn't get it plugged in again,
even though it was 10 minutes from her usual bed time. I offered to
come over right away or the next day, and neither was good enough for
her. What a pain she is. But at least this all reinforces my
decision not to marry her.

Going dark for a second or two, could be the video card driver
recovering from a problem. Is there anything of note in Event
Viewer ? Maybe there are some error messages waiting for you.
I should have looked at that too. Didn't think of it. I will do so.

In the past I've wanted to install Team Viewer, but she objected, and
for the last year or more hasn't asked for computer help. This time I
thought the issue was hardware only but since it's not, I'm going to
go over once more if she agrees to let me install Team Viewer. (She
seems to think someone, maybe even me, will be operating her computer
behind her back. So far my efforts have been unsuccessful to tell her
that can't happen if she closes team viewer. I'm glad my brother is
sensible. I've been able to fix his computer problems 4 times so far,
even though he's 800 miles away. Team Viewer is great, and free for
individual use.
 
P

Paul

micky said:
She probably wouldn't let me take it out of the house. She got all
upset Thursday night when I had her disconnect the calble to see what
the pins looked like, and then she couldn't get it plugged in again,
even though it was 10 minutes from her usual bed time. I offered to
come over right away or the next day, and neither was good enough for
her. What a pain she is. But at least this all reinforces my
decision not to marry her.



I should have looked at that too. Didn't think of it. I will do so.

In the past I've wanted to install Team Viewer, but she objected, and
for the last year or more hasn't asked for computer help. This time I
thought the issue was hardware only but since it's not, I'm going to
go over once more if she agrees to let me install Team Viewer. (She
seems to think someone, maybe even me, will be operating her computer
behind her back. So far my efforts have been unsuccessful to tell her
that can't happen if she closes team viewer. I'm glad my brother is
sensible. I've been able to fix his computer problems 4 times so far,
even though he's 800 miles away. Team Viewer is great, and free for
individual use.
The customer is always right. It they don't want Teamviewer,
don't use Teamviewer.

You see, some people, they've had copies of Back Orifice installed
on their computer. And they've been harassed remotely. If you
run into such a person, they're so paranoid after a while,
they're almost mental. If you run into such a person,
keep your TeamViewer to yourself. And if that person
gets flushed in the face (reddish looking), run :)

Paul
 
P

Paul

micky said:
I've been trying to get that straight too, especially since she's
trying to talk me into buying one**.


I'm sure it streams, from a wireless router. That's a LAN, right?
They make ones that work from Wifi, and ones that work via Ethernet (wired).
But I figure it must be able to show what's stored on the computer
also.
In some cases, Windows Media Player is supposed to be able to
stream to a TV set. But you have to be a Computer Science major
to get it working. In some cases, the TV sets, even have
different playback options (movie format support), as a function of
whether you use a USB port on the TV, or stream a movie to it.

So it is a 1920x1080 LCD.

http://ic.tweakimg.net/ext/i/1328777594.jpeg

Side view looks like DVI-D and VGA. Perhaps a DVI-D cable from
monitor to DVI-I video card will work.

http://ic.tweakimg.net/ext/i/1328777600.jpeg
THIS SEEEMS TO BE THE ANSWER:
http://www.hisdigital.com/un/news_show-74.rhtml
It is possible, however,
to connect a male DVI-D cable to a female DVI-I connector. Many flat
panel LCD monitors have only the DVI-D connection so that a DVI-D male
to DVI-D male cable will suffice when connecting the monitor to a
computer's DVI-I female connector."

So I'm good to go with a; card with a female connector, whether it's
DVI-D or DVI-I. Right? Since the calbe is DVI-D and certainly
male too.
I think you're OK. And if you want to run two VGA, you can plug
a DVI-I to VGA adapter into the DVI-I port on the video card.
While I've seen HDMI to DVI adapters, I don't know anything about
them (such as if there are any issues or not with them). With the card
with the three connectors, there are some conversion options.

She doesn't need dual, I think. The computer came that way for some
reason. (I think her friend had used it before he gave it to her, or
maybe it was surplus at his job.)
Some of the business machines, come with a cheap Quadro as a means of
driving two monitors from a low profile slot. In terms of gaming potential,
it would rate down there with my FX5200.

The sample card I picked out (and picked, based on price),
isn't a strong card either. It's also a power sipping card,
and doesn't use a lot of electricity. A gamer would not be
happy with it - maybe you could play SIMs on it. It should
do fine for movie playback, and the GPU is typically used
for HTPC builds. It might draw a little less power than
the Quadro. Some of the older generation cards, were around
30W. Some of the latest video cards, are less than that,
especially at idle.

** (OT: I would buy a smart tv if any of them had OUTput jacks for
the signal. But they seem to have only various kinds of INput
jacks, except for external speakers. Right now I have a DVDR with a
digital tuner (and a hard drive) and I use that to watch tv for the
whole house. 5 tv's connected by co-ax, with a couple signal
amplifers where too many splitters made the signal too weak*** so I
can watch the same thing even when I go from room to room.

If I could use a fancy tv to receive and detect tv signals from the
web, and then connect that to the DVDR and from there to the rest of
the house, that would be great, but like I say, there are no output
jacks. So the alternative is to buy several smart tvs and at 5 or
600 apiece that's a lot of money. )

***Actually, every two splitters, I need a signal amp. I've been
running these amps constantly for 30 years I don't think either has
failed,
They would be loathe to put output jacks on a modern TV set,
because they could get in trouble with DMCA. That's what
restricts the I/O options we have. Anything that makes copying
movies, at a certain resolution possible, is to be avoided.
If the TV had composite video output (crap), they wouldn't
care about that. Outputs have stuff like MacroVision
installed as an option. HDMI has HDCP and encryption at
the 1920x1080 level, to prevent copying. All of which can
be defeated without too much trouble, by the people who
make copies as professional pirates. I think the HDCP
encryption has been cracked. Just about every encryption
has met some fate.

Also, some of the output options on modern video cards
have disappeared. Such as the component option. I think
you'll find those connectors on the back of some TV sets.
My card can drive this, but I don't have any gear to
connect it to.

"Mini-DIN to YPbPr"
http://www.geekshive.com/item_image/75/4/1340012770

Paul
 
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J

Jon Danniken

Also, some of the output options on modern video cards
have disappeared. Such as the component option. I think
you'll find those connectors on the back of some TV sets.
My card can drive this, but I don't have any gear to
connect it to.

"Mini-DIN to YPbPr"
http://www.geekshive.com/item_image/75/4/1340012770
I have one of those connected to the x800 in my HTPC, feeding my old
(CRT) HDTV. I was originally planning on using a DVI to HDMI cable, but
from my reading on the subject there is no benefit in using HDMI over
component, which is fortunate because that means one less thing to have
to buy.

Jon
 
T

Tecknomage

Q>
Q> I hope I've used the right nomenclature everywhere.
Q>
Q> Is DVI sufficiently better than SVGA that a person who doesn't play
Q> games, just reads and writes email and looks at rather ordinary
Q> webpages, will notice the difference?
Q>
Q> I think the DVI video card in my friend's computer is failing. (More
Q> about that below**) and the monitor accepts both DVI and VGA input.
Q>
Q> So I could either remove the video card and rely on the onboard SVGA
Q> video, and for 5 or 10 dollars buy a male-VGA to male-VGA cable and
Q> just use SVGA. Or for more money, 20 to 30 dollars, I
Q> could replace the DVI card. It's a 7-year old computer and she
Q> doesn't want to spend much money. Will she notice the difference?
Q> (She's paying for it and may well balk at 25 dollars.)
Q>
Q> She does watch movies from the internet, but she uses a smart TV in a
Q> different room from the computer. . Does the computer monitor matter
Q> at all in such a setup? If she were to try to watch the movie on the
Q> computer, would SVGA be good enough?
Q>
Q>

First, stick with DVI. SVGA has a problem with distortion and the fit
of the video to the screen size.



Q>
Q> **She has a monitor that goes dark for a second or two or four,
Q> sometimes failrly often, and other times it works fine. She hasnt'
Q> figured out a pattern to it. I've used the computer and it really is
Q> annoying and should be fixed. .
Q>

This MAY be a symptom of a heat problem. Her system overheating.


Q> Another friend of hers switched monitors and decided the monitor is
Q> not the problem. I don't like taking his word for this, but my only
Q> spare monitor is a CRT and it's too heavy to drag over to her house.
Q> So I will take his word.
Q>
Q> The possible problems, counting only parts I can replace, are the thin
Q> screen Samsung 522A200B monitor and the video card, right?
Q>
Q> She has a Dell Optiplex 745, which, amazingly to me, comes in 4 sizes
Q> with the same name and number.
Q>
Q> Mini-tower, desktop, small form factor, and Ultra-Small Form Factor

You should have use a WEB link to show which she has, like this one...
http://www.dell.com/us/dfb/p/optiplex-745/pd

Is it the middle one on the stack in the pic?


Q>
Q> She has the small form factor. It has two slots and the video
Q> card is in the PCI-express slot.
Q>
Q> The current video card came with a cable splitter and I guess is
Q> enough to run two monitors,

Exactly. One of the feature of Model 745 is the built-in dual-monitor
capability.

I retired from a company at their IT Tech and we used this Dell model,
the full tower and the "Tool Box" (top system in the pic above). The
software engineers use dual monitors.


Q> but maybe because she has a smart tv?, I
Q> don't think she'll ever use the second output. So can I just put in a
Q> single output card? (I have examples of this, a low-profile PCI-E
Q> card that will fit her computer, and sold under the Dell brand,, but I
Q> tried to email them to myself from her house and she required a
Q> password to send email!!! even though I could read her incoming mail
Q> with no password!!! I hope she'll send me the email today. )
Q>
Q> BTW, the current video card had a jack I've never seen before, about
Q> 16 rows of pins, 4 per row, with one pin missing from the fourth row.
Q> Is there a name for this kind of jack?
Q>

I assume you're talking about the jack on the back of the system, that
is to accommodate the dual-monitor feature. It supplies the signals
used by the Y-cable to run two monitors.


I suspect one of two things:

- Her system is overheating, so check to see ALL fans are working.
Some can be hard to see because it is so compact.

- This model is old. She may just need a new one.


But, you should confirm that it is not her monitor. A local computer
repair shop here in San Diego will lend a monitor for a small
fee+deposit. Of course you get the deposit back when you return the
monitor within one working day. You may want to see if you have such
a shop in your area OR find a friend who would lend you a monitor
similar to her's.



IF she is considering a new system, I highly suggest buying from Dell
ONLINE. That's because any system can be customized; adding/changing
options (more memory, hard drive size, Windows 7 or 8, software
packages, etc.).

http://www.dell.com/

NOTES:

- Windows 8 is built for touch-screen systems like tablet systems, it
is not best for normal desktops.

- I recommend staying away from the all-in-one models. They are
*almost* irreparable and suffer from the same heat problems that all
compact system have.

Good luck.



--
=========== Tecknomage ===========
Computer Systems Specialist
IT Technician
(retired)
San Diego, CA
 
M

micky

.adfasfdasfasf
I intend tp reply to your post later, but now I want to catch you and
everyone up on the problem with the computer video.

I was looking at the video card you picked out, and some others in the
20 to 30 dollar range, and thought I'd look at MicroCenter's webpage.
They have a store in Baltimore. I always had the feeling that
Comp-USA and the other one were expensive, but somehow MicroCenter
gives the imprression that it's not

So I looked for a card and they had nothing that was low-profile,
either on the web or in the store here (the webpage can do both).

So I looked for a VGA-VGA cable, (and I'd use the on-board VGA
circuit) and they had one that was $9.99, marked down to 0.99, marked
down to $0.01. That seemed like a good price. When I tried to
order it online, it kept changing the price to zero and then the
Checkout button never appeared, but I tried it from the beginning and
got 1 cent, and I checked out, and it even gave me the option of not
paying, and they would hold it at the store for about 3 days (after
which it would taken away from me), and I could pay when I picked it
up. So I got it that night, and the in-store price was zero.

Then the hamfest was Sunday morning, and I was sure they wouldn't have
the card, given that Microcenter didn't have it, even in their
warehouse.

Well, one guy had the whole computer that my friend has, 2 of them,
and the next size larger too, 2 or 3 of them. And he had a box of
videocards, complete with splitter and driver CD. For $13. But
those were the ones that fit the bigger computer. He said he had the
ones for the smaller computer at home, and he'd mail one for $15. I'm
pretty sure this is the very model that Dell used in the first place,
Quite a coincidence, I think.

So I go her house and put in the VGA cable and it doesn't work of
course so I take out the non-functioning cable, and now the VGA works,
but only as "Default Monitor". The image is stretched out
hosizontally, and when I go to highter resolutions, it makes the print
too small.

So I try to dl the Dell drivers, and they seem to be installed
already. Then I reaize that it must be the Samsung drivers that I
need, but eventually figure out that they've been dl'd already too,
I try to reinstall them but neither Dell nor SAmsung will install.
And I get a message that I can't install the monitor software until I
do the graphics card, (or vice versa) and separately I get a message I
cann't install the graphics card.

I want to just lieave it like it is, which isn't bad imo, and order
the card from the guy and figure we'd get it Wednesday or Thursday,
but she says it's "distracting" the way it is. So I put it back the
way it is. For me the monitor has already started blinking off, but
she hasn't seen that yet. Maybe just touching it fixed it. That's
how I often fix things.

Her father died last week and the funeral was Monday, so it was no
time to give her a hard time. Eventually the monitor will be bad for
her again, probably, and

then we'll either get the original video card (used I guess for 4 to 6
years) or the one you suiggested, new, or one of the two other ones.

If you were a cheapskate, which one would you buy, the used for 15 or
one of the others for 20 to 30???
I think the used cards were removed from the same make and model
computer that she has -- After all, he had two of them for sale -- and
that seems like a big reason to pick them. .



Even though she just 2 weeks ago bought a 2012 car for 25 or 30K or
more, I can see her wanting the 15 dollar one. OTOH, she's
distrustful of used. (Cars and furniture were the only things she
bought used. She had bought her last 3 cars used, so it was quite a
change to buy a 2012.



I can see her wanting the one for 15
 
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P

Paul

micky said:
I intend tp reply to your post later, but now I want to catch you and
everyone up on the problem with the computer video.

I was looking at the video card you picked out, and some others in the
20 to 30 dollar range, and thought I'd look at MicroCenter's webpage.
They have a store in Baltimore. I always had the feeling that
Comp-USA and the other one were expensive, but somehow MicroCenter
gives the imprression that it's not

So I looked for a card and they had nothing that was low-profile,
either on the web or in the store here (the webpage can do both).

So I looked for a VGA-VGA cable, (and I'd use the on-board VGA
circuit) and they had one that was $9.99, marked down to 0.99, marked
down to $0.01. That seemed like a good price. When I tried to
order it online, it kept changing the price to zero and then the
Checkout button never appeared, but I tried it from the beginning and
got 1 cent, and I checked out, and it even gave me the option of not
paying, and they would hold it at the store for about 3 days (after
which it would taken away from me), and I could pay when I picked it
up. So I got it that night, and the in-store price was zero.

Then the hamfest was Sunday morning, and I was sure they wouldn't have
the card, given that Microcenter didn't have it, even in their
warehouse.

Well, one guy had the whole computer that my friend has, 2 of them,
and the next size larger too, 2 or 3 of them. And he had a box of
videocards, complete with splitter and driver CD. For $13. But
those were the ones that fit the bigger computer. He said he had the
ones for the smaller computer at home, and he'd mail one for $15. I'm
pretty sure this is the very model that Dell used in the first place,
Quite a coincidence, I think.

So I go her house and put in the VGA cable and it doesn't work of
course so I take out the non-functioning cable, and now the VGA works,
but only as "Default Monitor". The image is stretched out
hosizontally, and when I go to highter resolutions, it makes the print
too small.

So I try to dl the Dell drivers, and they seem to be installed
already. Then I reaize that it must be the Samsung drivers that I
need, but eventually figure out that they've been dl'd already too,
I try to reinstall them but neither Dell nor SAmsung will install.
And I get a message that I can't install the monitor software until I
do the graphics card, (or vice versa) and separately I get a message I
cann't install the graphics card.

I want to just lieave it like it is, which isn't bad imo, and order
the card from the guy and figure we'd get it Wednesday or Thursday,
but she says it's "distracting" the way it is. So I put it back the
way it is. For me the monitor has already started blinking off, but
she hasn't seen that yet. Maybe just touching it fixed it. That's
how I often fix things.

Her father died last week and the funeral was Monday, so it was no
time to give her a hard time. Eventually the monitor will be bad for
her again, probably, and

then we'll either get the original video card (used I guess for 4 to 6
years) or the one you suiggested, new, or one of the two other ones.

If you were a cheapskate, which one would you buy, the used for 15 or
one of the others for 20 to 30???
I think the used cards were removed from the same make and model
computer that she has -- After all, he had two of them for sale -- and
that seems like a big reason to pick them. .

Even though she just 2 weeks ago bought a 2012 car for 25 or 30K or
more, I can see her wanting the 15 dollar one. OTOH, she's
distrustful of used. (Cars and furniture were the only things she
bought used. She had bought her last 3 cars used, so it was quite a
change to buy a 2012.

I can see her wanting the one for 15
If it's the same Quadro as was in there previously, I think it's worth it.

What you have to watch for, in used video cards, is anything from the
"NVidia Fail" era. NVidia had a number of GPU chips, with some kind of
solder ball problem. And the solder would fail (crack), and make intermittent
connections. Some users did the "Easy Bake" repair, putting the card
into an oven for a period of time, to try to repair the solder.

So if someone had a card from that era for sale, I'd need to run the
card number, track down the GPU used, and verify whether it was
an affected one or not. NVidia laid aside several hundred million dollars
to clean up that mess, and I don't think that many end users got to
benefit from the money. And some of the manufacturers were pretty sleazy too.
Like the ones where a defective GPU was used in a laptop, and the
manufacturer distributed a new BIOS, to turn up the fan in the computer,
keeping the GPU cool, until it failed outside the warranty period.

But if the Quadro lasted a long time in her PC, it's probably OK
to pick up another one of those used. The fan could certainly wear
out on it (if it is a fan-cooled one). In which case, there are
also after-market coolers that you can use as a replacement.
But considering the price target in this case, this wouldn't
be a card where you'd do that. Picking up the cooler, would
cost more than the card.

Paul
 

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