Problem restoring a backup - NTBACKUP

[David Vale]

I run XP Home Edition and have been using ntbackup to make backups to an
external drive. Now I want to restore part of this, but when I open the
backup file in NTbackup it shows the whole file on the left hand side as
"File", does not break it down further and does not allow me to select it for
restore.

 

[Pegasus [MVP]]

I run XP Home Edition and have been using ntbackup to make backups to an
external drive. Now I want to restore part of this, but when I open the
backup file in NTbackup it shows the whole file on the left hand side as
"File", does not break it down further and does not allow me to select it
for
restore.

This may be an issue of not being familiar with the way ntbackup works. I
suggest you follow the recommended procedure for setting up a backup
process, even though the normal order is reversed:
1. Use ntbackup to back up a selected folder.
2. Use ntbackup to restore the selected folder to a different location.

This is a no-risk operation that will familiarise you with ntbackup. It will
also show you what to expect when opening the real backup file. By the way -
are you opening a .bkf file?

After resolving this issue, remember that automatic backups are close to
useless unless the following steps are taken:
- You must perform a sample restoration once or twice each year.
- You must examine the backup report about once every week.

 

[Twayne]

I run XP Home Edition and have been using ntbackup to make backups to
an external drive. Now I want to restore part of this, but when I
open the backup file in NTbackup it shows the whole file on the left
hand side as "File", does not break it down further and does not
allow me to select it for restore.

I don't have Home Edition handy right now; only Pro. AFAIK there should
be no differences though.
It sounds you may have either missed a dialog or it opened beneath
the dialog you are looking at, if you used the Restore Wizard. Do not
use the Automated System REcovery Wizard as that might do what you
describe too. More detail would have been nice to have.

Try selecting the Restore and Manage Media tab of the backup dialog. It
will open a window similar to what you describe. Click the + in the
left pain to roll down the folders list. Click a + list in the right
hand folder and it should allow you to choose the folder/files you want
to get at to Restore. You select what you want to restore by putting a
tick mark in the box at the left of the names in either the left or
right pane.
From there I think you'll be all set.

If you still have problems, come back with as much detail as you can
describing what you're doing. And if it works, I hope you'll let us
know that too.

HTH,

Twayne

 

[Twayne]

Pegasus [MVP] wrote:
....

This is a no-risk operation that will familiarise you with ntbackup.
It will also show you what to expect when opening the real backup
file. By the way - are you opening a .bkf file?

After resolving this issue, remember that automatic backups are close
to useless unless the following steps are taken:
- You must perform a sample restoration once or twice each year.
- You must examine the backup report about once every week.

I'm curious; what would be the reasons for requiring a sample
restoration once or twice each year and examining a backup report about
once a week? I can't imagine what would/could make them "close to
useless" if that weren't done.
I have old, pre-image program backups in my archives and they still
work perfectly well, although they haven't even been accessed in many
years. I'm wondering if you meant something else or something
different? I just tried it on a couple system states and two system
drive (Program Files folder) backups, restoring to a new location, and
it worked well. I even ran a few of the files that didn't reqire
registry entries or non-system support (VB6 files and the like).

Regards,

Twayne

 

[BillW50]

In Pegasus [MVP] typed on Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:25:33 +0100:

This may be an issue of not being familiar with the way ntbackup
works. I suggest you follow the recommended procedure for setting up
a backup process, even though the normal order is reversed:
1. Use ntbackup to back up a selected folder.
2. Use ntbackup to restore the selected folder to a different
location.
This is a no-risk operation that will familiarise you with ntbackup.
It will also show you what to expect when opening the real backup
file. By the way - are you opening a .bkf file?

After resolving this issue, remember that automatic backups are close
to useless unless the following steps are taken:
- You must perform a sample restoration once or twice each year.
- You must examine the backup report about once every week.

Keep in mind that ntbackup on the XP Home version is not complete like
the Pro version is. As it will not backup files in use and will not show
any error. So backing up the running OS will not restore correctly. It
is only useful IMHO for backing up unopened data files.

 

[Pegasus [MVP]]

Pegasus [MVP] wrote:
...

I'm curious; what would be the reasons for requiring a sample restoration
once or twice each year and examining a backup report about once a week?
I can't imagine what would/could make them "close to useless" if that
weren't done.

*** I have seen numerous backup schemes that failed, usually
*** for one of these reasons:
*** - The job failed to run, perhaps because of a permissions or password
*** issue. The weekly log check would reveal this.
*** - The backup file was unreadable (which may be the OP's issue).
*** The sample recovery would make this obvious.

I have old, pre-image program backups in my archives and they still work
perfectly well, although they haven't even been accessed in many years.
I'm wondering if you meant something else or something different? I just
tried it on a couple system states and two system drive (Program Files
folder) backups, restoring to a new location, and it worked well. I even
ran a few of the files that didn't reqire registry entries or non-system
support (VB6 files and the like).

*** You were lucky. When it comes to backing up data then
*** I don't rely on luck - I want certainty.
*** I am fully aware that backup jobs will remain functional forever
*** if nothing changes. However, things do change all the time . . .

 

[Patrick Keenan]

Pegasus [MVP] wrote:
...

I'm curious; what would be the reasons for requiring a sample restoration
once or twice each year and examining a backup report about once a week?
I can't imagine what would/could make them "close to useless" if that
weren't done.

Because backup programs can and do fail, and backups can and do become
corrupt.

How will you know if you don't restore periodically to check?


-pk

 

[BillW50]

In Twayne typed on Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:59:05 -0400:

I don't have Home Edition handy right now; only Pro. AFAIK there
should be no differences though...

There is a *big* difference! The Home version can't backup files in use
while Pro can. And the Home version will not report anything wrong so
you believe ntbackup is working just fine when it is not.

 

[David Vale]

I don't have Home Edition handy right now; only Pro. AFAIK there should
be no differences though.
It sounds you may have either missed a dialog or it opened beneath
the dialog you are looking at, if you used the Restore Wizard. Do not
use the Automated System REcovery Wizard as that might do what you
describe too. More detail would have been nice to have.

Try selecting the Restore and Manage Media tab of the backup dialog. It
will open a window similar to what you describe. Click the + in the
left pain to roll down the folders list. Click a + list in the right
hand folder and it should allow you to choose the folder/files you want
to get at to Restore. You select what you want to restore by putting a
tick mark in the box at the left of the names in either the left or
right pane.
From there I think you'll be all set.

If you still have problems, come back with as much detail as you can
describing what you're doing. And if it works, I hope you'll let us
know that too.

HTH,

Twayne

Hi Twayne,

Thanks for the reply. The Windows Backup File I am trying to restore from is
about 70 Gb. There are a couple of others, but the problem is the same with
all of them.

I open the restore pane as you describe. On the left hand side (no +) there
is a folder named "File" with a tick box. However, it won't allow me to tick
it and it won't open to reveal any constituent folders. If I click "Start
Restore", it says that no Files are selected.

Any ideas?

 

[BillW50]

In David Vale typed onn Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:32:07 -0700:

Hi Twayne,

Thanks for the reply. The Windows Backup File I am trying to restore
from is about 70 Gb. There are a couple of others, but the problem is
the same with all of them.

I open the restore pane as you describe. On the left hand side (no +)
there is a folder named "File" with a tick box. However, it won't
allow me to tick it and it won't open to reveal any constituent
folders. If I click "Start Restore", it says that no Files are
selected.

Any ideas?

"Home does not support Automated System Recovery (ASR) that is a part of
Backup and Restore. This in no way prevents you from making a full
backup in Home Edition, but it does limit the recovery or restore
options."

http://www.theeldergeek.com/protecting_the_system.htm

 

[Twayne]

*** I have seen numerous backup schemes that failed, usually
*** for one of these reasons:
*** - The job failed to run, perhaps because of a permissions or
password *** issue. The weekly log check would reveal this.
*** - The backup file was unreadable (which may be the OP's issue).
*** The sample recovery would make this obvious.


*** You were lucky. When it comes to backing up data then
*** I don't rely on luck - I want certainty.
*** I am fully aware that backup jobs will remain functional forever
*** if nothing changes. However, things do change all the time . . .

OK, I see; my problem was I thought it sounded like you were saying it's
because it's ntbackup but I see now you mean just about anything,
period, that would fit that situation. I've never even had ntbackup so
much as fail on a verify during backup or one of the very occasional
restores. Unless I do it to myself I fortunately have very few problems.
Knock on wood!

More often than not, even now, my use for the archived data is
something I stupidly did myself and want to get a file or a folder back
up, until recently. I recently had to re-image C back a day three times
because of "something" I never did figure out. That's when you discover
just how much you really appreciate images! I was playing around with
Google's Desktop and forgot I still had nVidia's desktops running - they
do NOT play nicely together and leave some collateral damage behind
somehow that the first re-image didn't take care of, which was a
surprise to me! Third time I went all the way back to the AM incremental
of that day's backup & that finally took care of whatever it was.
Hmm, sorry about the tangent; I get verbose sometimes.

Cheers,

Twayne

 

[Twayne]

Because backup programs can and do fail, and backups can and do become
corrupt.

How will you know if you don't restore periodically to check?

Once I've had an application running long enough to feel a confidence in
it, I rely on verification during backups and before restores. You're
right, corruption is pretty hard to avoid but XP seems to not have much
of a problem with it anymore. If the files don't match the logs or a
crc/hash fails, you know something went wrong.

Twayne

 

[Twayne]

In Twayne typed on Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:59:05 -0400:

There is a *big* difference! The Home version can't backup files in
use while Pro can. And the Home version will not report anything
wrong so you believe ntbackup is working just fine when it is not.

Hmm, you might want to inform Microsoft of that because they aren't
aware of it<g>.
What doesn't work in XP Home is the ASR extension provided with
ntbackup.exe. Home doesn't carry the services to handle that extension.
But everything else works, including using VSS, the Voume Shadow
Services with ntbackup.exe in XP Home.

Just for grins and to be certain I didn't shoot myself in the foot, I
just ran a System State backup on an XP Home laptop machine. The fifth
line of the Report says:
"
Backup (via Shadow Copy) of "System State"
"
Verification indicated "0 differences" and there were no skipped or
ignored files in the report.

Turning off the VS Services, and rerunning a System State backup again,
resulted in a slow backup (since the program waits 30 S for each "in
use" file to be released, and a long Report of skipped files in the
backup file. And it did throw some errors which you only would not see
if you told it not to show them to you in the future, something I do not
do.
So, I'm going to go out on a limb here <g> and say that ntbackup does
indeed work with XP Home with the exception of creating the ASR floppy,
a drive not many people have anymore anyway.
Since it can't use the ASR, one has to use their XP CD to boot and
install windows, and THEN they can use the ntbackup.exe to Restore the
remainder of all the rest of their files versus having to rebuild the
whole thing. An annoyance, true, but still a very functional
work-around.

So, kindly stop indicating that XP Home's Backup can not back up the
system drive or any "in use" files because it can and does.
Somehow you have been misinformed. If you doubt my results, give
them a try; something you should have done anyway since you were giving
advice you didn't 'know' to be accurate.
System States are not only useful, but quick to do since all they are
is enough of the OS to get it to boot (registry and a few other files),
which includes a bunch of files that will be "in use" when a backup or
Restore is run.
I run system states weekly and after any install/uninstall, in
addition to imaging with monthly full and incrementals nightly. A
system state is a lot faster to restore when that's all you need where a
reimaging takes 15-20 minutes or thereabouts.

HTH,

Twayne

 

[Twayne]

Hi Twayne,

Thanks for the reply. The Windows Backup File I am trying to restore
from is about 70 Gb. There are a couple of others, but the problem is
the same with all of them.

I open the restore pane as you describe. On the left hand side (no +)
there is a folder named "File" with a tick box. However, it won't
allow me to tick it and it won't open to reveal any constituent
folders. If I click "Start Restore", it says that no Files are
selected.

Any ideas?

Hmm, that suggest to me then that the backup is unreadable for some
reason. Unless perhaps Home only allows you to Restore an all or
nothing restoration? I don't think so but strantger things have
happened.
I have Home running here now and for examply, if I go to the Restore
and Manage Media tab, I can click the + and it drops down the backup
folder, and then under that is "System State", each with tickable boxes.
In the right pane though, I only have 3 items:
-- Boot Files
-- COM+Class Registration, and
-- Registry,
each with their own tick boxes. I never noticed that a System State
wouldn't show me individual files before. BUT, just for grins, I
checked on my XP Pro too, and it's exactly the same way. So it looks
like for system files you don't get to see them individually, at least
w/r to a system state, whether it's Home or Pro.

So, all in all, that says to me that with a whole drive's backup, there
should be something there to roll down to choose from for Restoration
purposes, especially since it's your entire drive. There should be
Program Files folder, System32, System, Windows, etc. etc. etc... If
there isn't, something has gone wrong. Like:
-- The current ntbackup.exe is not the same exact one that created the
backup? They are windows version dependent. You cannot backup with say
XP Pro and then Restore with XP Home. I've heard, but never verified,
that SP3 can cause that too. A backup made pre-SP3 install canot be
restored after SP3 is installed. I guess I wouldn't put it past MS to
do something like that, though. I don't have my sandbox machine handy
so I can't check to see if that's true or not right now.
-- Of course, a virus could easily damage the .bkf file, and then there
is good old regular file corruption, but I haven't seen any problems
with file corruption since I installed SP3, so that might be a thing of
the past or very nearly so anyway. Or I'm just lucky<g>.
-- Trying to open a .bkf with anything but say Notepad or any plain
text editor could damage it if any kind of save were accidentally done.

Unfortunately I don't know of any .bkf file recovery programs, so you
might be out of luck.
I would be temped, just to prove that backup works at all, to do a
sample backup of a couple of files and try restoring them after a
Restart. Instead of the backup file being messed up, I suppose it could
instead be ntbackup.exe itself that's corrupted. Hard to say; the
possibilities get almost endless when you get to that point.

IMO you're just out of luck unless you can determine it was backed up
with something other than the backup version you're using to restore it.

HTH,

Twayne

 

[BillW50]

In Twayne typed on Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:53:46 -0400:

Hmm, you might want to inform Microsoft of that because they aren't
aware of it<g>.
What doesn't work in XP Home is the ASR extension provided with
ntbackup.exe. Home doesn't carry the services to handle that
extension. But everything else works, including using VSS, the Voume
Shadow Services with ntbackup.exe in XP Home.

Just for grins and to be certain I didn't shoot myself in the foot, I
just ran a System State backup on an XP Home laptop machine. The
fifth line of the Report says:
"
Backup (via Shadow Copy) of "System State"
"
Verification indicated "0 differences" and there were no skipped or
ignored files in the report.

Turning off the VS Services, and rerunning a System State backup
again, resulted in a slow backup (since the program waits 30 S for
each "in use" file to be released, and a long Report of skipped files
in the backup file. And it did throw some errors which you only
would not see if you told it not to show them to you in the future,
something I do not do.
So, I'm going to go out on a limb here <g> and say that ntbackup
does indeed work with XP Home with the exception of creating the ASR
floppy, a drive not many people have anymore anyway.
Since it can't use the ASR, one has to use their XP CD to boot and
install windows, and THEN they can use the ntbackup.exe to Restore the
remainder of all the rest of their files versus having to rebuild the
whole thing. An annoyance, true, but still a very functional
work-around.

So, kindly stop indicating that XP Home's Backup can not back up the
system drive or any "in use" files because it can and does.
Somehow you have been misinformed. If you doubt my results, give
them a try; something you should have done anyway since you were
giving advice you didn't 'know' to be accurate.
System States are not only useful, but quick to do since all they are
is enough of the OS to get it to boot (registry and a few other
files), which includes a bunch of files that will be "in use" when a
backup or Restore is run.
I run system states weekly and after any install/uninstall, in
addition to imaging with monthly full and incrementals nightly. A
system state is a lot faster to restore when that's all you need
where a reimaging takes 15-20 minutes or thereabouts.

HTH,

Twayne

Actually I have used ntbackup many times on XP Home. And making the
backup, it reports nothing went wrong. Although when you try to restore
on a fresh hard drive, it never works. So Twayne, all of this talk from
you, have you ever got it to successfully restore Windows XP Home yet?

 

[Twayne]

In Twayne typed on Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:53:46 -0400:

Actually I have used ntbackup many times on XP Home. And making the
backup, it reports nothing went wrong. Although when you try to
restore
on a fresh hard drive, it never works. So Twayne, all of this talk
from
you, have you ever got it to successfully restore Windows XP Home yet?

Yes I have and just for grins just now I fired the machine up again
and Restored the whole System State again. Nowhere near as large as a
full backup, but ... it did Restore it fine both times. And it creates
a System Restore Point as it starts the Restore too.

Restoring to a fresh hard drive means you are either using an ASR floppy
or installing XP in order to get backup installed, right? Much faster
if you have the ASR flopply, assuming you have the floppy drive of
course<g>.
Oh, maybe that's it! If you're using the ASR, remember, they are
backup-dependent. You have to have one for each Full backup you do.
They're not a one size fits all. See below my sig.

I never noticed before, but in Advanced you can tell it to rename the
files it replaces and mark the restored files as Restored Files. That's
kind of neat. THEN I forgot to check it to see how it did it. Oh well;
I still need more coffee.

I did make the ASR disk once a month to use for full drive C restores
and just incrementals in between. When the backups were made, are
you sure there were no errors in the report? I keep all the logs and
rename them to the same fname part as the backup for easy ID.

Regards,

Twayne
----------------------
To recover from a system failure using Automated System Recovery

1.. Make sure you have the following items before you begin the
recovery procedure:
a.. Your previously created Automated System Recovery (ASR) floppy
disk.
b.. Your previously created backup media.
c.. The original operating system installation CD.
2.. Insert the original operating system installation CD into your CD
drive.
3.. Restart your computer. If prompted to press a key in order to
start the computer from CD, press the appropriate key.
4.. Press F2 when prompted during the text-only mode section of Setup.
You will be prompted to insert the ASR floppy disk you have previously
created.
5.. Follow the directions on the screen.
Note

a.. ASR will not restore your data files. For more information about
backing up and restoring your data files, click Related Topics.
Related Topics