Printers for artists - any suggestions?

[a l l y]

Hi

Most printers these days seem to be targetted at photographers, and although
I do use a digital camera, most of my photos stay on the computer or on the
net, rather than getting printed out. I am an artist, and I want to make
prints of the artwork I produce on the computer. I want to use good quality,
acid-free, heavyweight, artists' quality paper with non-fading inks. Is this
a pipe-dream? I also need to do bog-standard, day-to-day printing as well,
of course, and I also print little books on craftwork so I need something
with fairly large ink tanks, as I hate having to change them in the middle
of a print run.

Any ideas, suggestions or comments will be carefully considered. Thank you.

ally

 

[zakezuke]

I am an artist, and I want to make prints of the

artwork I produce on the computer.
I want to use good quality, acid-free, heavyweight,
artists' quality paper with non-fading inks. Is this
a pipe-dream? I also need to do bog-standard,
day-to-day printing as well, of course, and I also
print little books on craftwork so I need something
with fairly large ink tanks, as I hate having to
change them in the middle of a print run.

Canon is pretty much out. The new chromalife100 inks are I believe
rated for under 30 years under glass on their offical papers. I don't
have experence with the current generation inks but the older
generation stuff faided fast on my window sill.

That leaves Epson, HP, and perhaps Brother.
Epson has pigments or dyes depend on the model you choose, and HP has
vivera ink, dye that is reported as being very fade resistant.

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hp/8450.html
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/WIR_EpR320_2005_06_18.pdf
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/WIR_Ep_R800_2004_12_03.pdf
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/news/B1028733427/C1779792688/E20050711093817/
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/R2400.html

 

[Arthur Entlich]

You did not state how large the output needs to be nor your budget.
Also, is there some general "type" of image you produce (something that
mimics more traditional artform, like pen and ink prints, watercolor,
oil?) some printer will better represent certain media better than others.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I believe Vivera inks only maintain their fade resistance when used with
HP's swellable polymer papers, which probably makes them water soluble,
and of limited paper surfaces and stocks.

Art

 

[a l l y]

You did not state how large the output needs to be nor your budget. Also,
is there some general "type" of image you produce (something that mimics
more traditional artform, like pen and ink prints, watercolor, oil?) some
printer will better represent certain media better than others.

Well, Ideally I'd love to be able to print bigger than A4, but my budget is
limited. I'm prepared to pay a bit more than the cost of a bog standard
printer, but unfortunately I can't afford a top quality professional machine
so it'll have to be a compromise I guess. Are there any printers that would
allow me to use paper that's longer than A4 - banner-type printing, I
suppose you'd call it?

As for the "type" of image - good question - I guess I'd like it to look
like a screen print more than anything. At the moment I'm printing on heavy
card-type paper - the sort of thing that's embossed with a pattern like
canvas or like watercolour paper - and it looks great, though I don't expect
it to last very well. I've been advised that spraying it with fixative and
putting it behind glass will help, and making sure I use acid-free paper. I
suppose I could cut ordinary watercolour paper into sheets of the right size
if it would take the ink properly.

ally

 

[me]

Well, Ideally I'd love to be able to print bigger than A4, but my budget is
limited. I'm prepared to pay a bit more than the cost of a bog standard
printer, but unfortunately I can't afford a top quality professional machine
so it'll have to be a compromise I guess. Are there any printers that would
allow me to use paper that's longer than A4 - banner-type printing, I
suppose you'd call it?

As for the "type" of image - good question - I guess I'd like it to look
like a screen print more than anything. At the moment I'm printing on heavy
card-type paper - the sort of thing that's embossed with a pattern like
canvas or like watercolour paper - and it looks great, though I don't expect
it to last very well. I've been advised that spraying it with fixative and
putting it behind glass will help, and making sure I use acid-free paper. I
suppose I could cut ordinary watercolour paper into sheets of the right size
if it would take the ink properly.

You could possibly look at OKI's colour lasers (LED), at least get a
sample print from them, see if it might be what you want. Most (all?)
of their A4 colour lasers will print banners up to about 4 feet IIRC.

 

[Jon O'Brien]

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/...

I wouldn't trust Wilhelm's figures unless your prints are only to be
displayed under fluorescent light.

Check out the more realistic daylight ratings on Stephen Livick's
site at: http://tinyurl.com/9ql1 http://tinyurl.com/97utj and
http://tinyurl.com/dlr9o.

You should also read http://tinyurl.com/9yz8q and http://tinyurl.com/alegy
and many other pages on Livick's site.

I see that, in a later post, you mention using a fixative spray. That's
something else you should check out on Stephen Livick's site. Many of the
coatings crack or yellow badly. Clear Shield seems to be the best but you
need to roll or brush it on.

Jon.

 

[Davy]

One site you may have a look on is-:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/ they specialise in that sort of work, well
worth a look in, their forum well worth a visit.

Davy

 

[Yianni]

As Arthur stated, the paper size is the most significant thing. For A4 (8-9
inches wide) I suggest the epson C86, C88, D88, C66, etc ($100). But I think
A4 is small enough. It's better to move to a A3 printer (11 inches wide) I
suggest the epson R2400 ($500?).
Increasing the printed size the price increases much more. Both above
printers use pigment inks (archival). In all inkjet printers you can print
banners, the limit is the width of the paper. For A2 size (16 inches) the
price is about $1500, and so on.

--


--
Yianni
(e-mail address removed) (remove number nine to reply)


--

 

[Bob Headrick]

I wouldn't trust Wilhelm's figures unless your prints are only to be
displayed under fluorescent light.

Check out the more realistic daylight ratings on Stephen Livick's
site at: http://tinyurl.com/9ql1 http://tinyurl.com/97utj and
http://tinyurl.com/dlr9o.

I would not say Livick's site is more realistic - for example, the HP printer
used is a three year old model that does not use the new inks, and they provide
test results for two dozen paper combinations including Epson and Canon
aper - but no HP paper, which the HP is designed to work with. I would use
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/ for comparisons on recent stuff with a bit
less bias.

- Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

 

[zakezuke]

Are there any printers that would

allow me to use paper that's longer than A4 - banner-type printing, I
suppose you'd call it?

You'll find that 24 inchs is a typical limit on your average a4
printer.

Double checking the canons I own, they are locked to print on a max
height of 59.4cm. / 23.9 in, where my epson r200 was 44 in according to
the specs.

 

[Jon O'Brien]

I would not say Livick's site is more realistic - for example, the HP
printer used is a three year old model that does not use the new inks,
and they provide test results for two dozen paper combinations
including Epson and Canon aper - but no HP paper, which the HP is
designed to work with. I would use http://www.wilhelm-research.com/ for
comparisons on recent stuff with a bit less bias.

Livick tests the printer/ink/paper combinations he uses himself and prints
sent to him by other people. Unlike Wilhelm, it's not a commercial
operation, and doesn't make any claims to being comprehensive. If you'd
like him to test a specific combination, send him a print.

By realistic, I meant that the tests are done using sunlight, rather than
fluorescent light, so the results for the combinations that have been
tested are more relevant. I can't see how Wilhelm's figures can bear any
relation to the real world when they're done using a very limited
spectrum.

I understand that, in light of the criticism he's been getting, Wilhelm
has recently bowed to pressure and is going to change his methodology.
Future tests may be more meaningful but I wouldn't put any faith in his
old tests.

Jon.

 

[Viktor Darnedde]

Well, Ideally I'd love to be able to print bigger than A4, but my budget is
limited. I'm prepared to pay a bit more than the cost of a bog standard
printer, but unfortunately I can't afford a top quality professional machine
so it'll have to be a compromise I guess. Are there any printers that would
allow me to use paper that's longer than A4 - banner-type printing, I
suppose you'd call it?

Well, this sounds like you are going to print on matte or watercolor paper.
Ask yourself what your print volume is going to be!

I am very happy with my Epson Stylus Photo 2100, an A3+ pigmented ink
printer. I print my digital photos with this printer. My print volume isn't
that high but I refill my OEM cartridges with Epson Ultrachrome ink which I
take from the bigger cartridges of the Epson Pro printers. If you know how
to do it, it's pretty easy. This cuts down ink cost considerably.

If you want to make a living out of your art work and prints consider an
Epson Stylus Pro 4000. It takes reasonably prized single ink cartridges
with 110ml or 220ml, prints very well on heavy matte papers up to A2. The
initial costs might be high but aren't in the long run.


\relax\bye % Viktor

 

[Arthur Entlich]

If you wish to print on a heavyweighted paper or canvas and you are
looking for permanence, and you are not concerned about very subtle
gradients like those found in say, a sky in a photograph, you can
probably use something like a C66 or C86 Epson.

I suggest these for a few reasons:

1) They use Durabrite inks, which are pigment colorant based and these
inks will last nearly 100 years under glass or a good 50+ under normal
lighting conditions.

2) These printers use only 4 colors CMYK, which will provide you with a
less costly ink situation, while still providing something approaching a
"screened image"

3) There are heavy card, paper and canvas stocks made for these
printers, and they will do a fairly good job on uncoated non-specialty
stock. The results will not be a crisp and contrasty, but if the inks
stock properly to the surface, they should still maintain relatively
good permanence.

Negatives: Durabrite inks are more likely to clog than others if the
printer is used seldomly or in a dusty or very dry conditions.

Non-Durabrite substitute inks may not have the same characteristics.
Some may even be dye colorant based.

Limited to a bit over 8" wide by 44" long. All Epson letter printers
will print up to 44" using Epson's own software.

The C66 is not as fast or robust as the C86.

Other options, although more costly to buy and feeds are the R800
(letter size) and it's wider brother the R1800, and the 2400, both
offering up to 13" wide, Ultrachrome pigment inks, and multiple ink colors..

Art

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I know of no consumer color laser printers which can print banner size,
other than by breaking the image up into sections legal size or smaller
and then adhering them together. I also know of none that will print on
heavyweighted stock or canvas other than via a transfer process
involving laminates, adhesives and a heated press.

Most laser printers produce contrasty images still, relative to inkjets.

Art

 

[a l l y]

Both these sites make fascinating reading - thanks guys. Looks like I'll not
get any work done today...

ally

 

[a l l y]

You'll find that 24 inchs is a typical limit on your average a4
printer.

That's more than enough. I often seem to produce work that's not a standard
A4/A3-whatever shape - they're often wider and less tall than this standard,
so something that'll print about 8" by up to 24" would give me loads of
flexibility. I never thought of trying this on my present printer! (And just
yesterday, all this stopped being academic and became a very pressing need,
as my old printer has just decided to die on me. Canon tell me it's a 75
pound call-out charge - absolutely not worth it - so I need a new printer as
soon as possible now!)

ally

 

[a l l y]

Well, this sounds like you are going to print on matte or watercolor
paper.
Ask yourself what your print volume is going to be!

I am very happy with my Epson Stylus Photo 2100, an A3+ pigmented ink
printer. I print my digital photos with this printer. My print volume
isn't
that high but I refill my OEM cartridges with Epson Ultrachrome ink which
I
take from the bigger cartridges of the Epson Pro printers. If you know how
to do it, it's pretty easy. This cuts down ink cost considerably.

That sounds like good advice. My partner refills his ink tanks with those
cheap refill outfits (yeah, I know the quality's not as good, but he's only
printing photos...), so maybe he has the know-how to help me on this one.

If you want to make a living out of your art work and prints consider an
Epson Stylus Pro 4000. It takes reasonably prized single ink cartridges
with 110ml or 220ml, prints very well on heavy matte papers up to A2. The
initial costs might be high but aren't in the long run.

I'd like to try making a living out of it, but I don't know yet whether I
can. I used to sell my paintings years ago, so I know people do like what I
do, but I can't justify paying huge sums for a printer at this stage. I
guess I'll have to start with a compromise that I can afford, and if I do
make some money out of it I'll plough the profits back in to a better
printer.

Whatever I get, it has to be able to cope with day-to-day stuff as well - I
don't want to be paying huge sums for specialist inks when the majority of
the output will be letters to customers or downloaded web pages... (I need 2
printers, don't I?)

ally

 

[a l l y]

I know of no consumer color laser printers which can print banner size,
other than by breaking the image up into sections legal size or smaller and
then adhering them together. I also know of none that will print on
heavyweighted stock or canvas other than via a transfer process involving
laminates, adhesives and a heated press.

Most laser printers produce contrasty images still, relative to inkjets.

Most of the stuff I've seen printed by colour laser printers looks a bit
cheap & nasty, iirc. Sort of shiny. Great for brochures or stuff like that,
but not so good for artwork.

ally

 

[a l l y]

One site you may have a look on is-:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/ they specialise in that sort of work, well
worth a look in, their forum well worth a visit.

Oh, that's a nice site - thanks! Will do some reading now...

ally