J
JerryMouse
Woody said:
So what? You can download 10,000 freeware programs, so that's not a big
deal. The "office suite" is suitable for running a squirrel's nut mine, but
little else.
So what? You can download 10,000 freeware programs, so that's not a big
deal. The "office suite" is suitable for running a squirrel's nut mine, but
little else.
W
Woody
gee i just typed a letter , saved it as a .doc and printed it . that covers
about what 95% of all ms office users do with it . and with crossover office
you can install ms office and "most " windows programs w/o needing to buy a
licence for windows . not to meantion , i can install it on any friggin
computer i want to w/o kissing billy g's ass first .
about what 95% of all ms office users do with it . and with crossover office
you can install ms office and "most " windows programs w/o needing to buy a
licence for windows . not to meantion , i can install it on any friggin
computer i want to w/o kissing billy g's ass first .
L
Leythos
Woody, I'm with you, but you have to admit that Office is used in a vast
majority of businesses and that OO does not properly import MS Office
documents with even minor formatting methods. I have tried to use OO for
business and it was just to much a PITA. I installed CrossOver so that I
could then install MS Office XP Prof and have full MS Document ability.
For home users, if they don't play popular online games, Linux and the
suites that come with most distro's are great replacements, but not in
business - yet.
C
Carey Frisch [MVP]
I'm sure the professionals will sense your lack of
wisdom and look elsewhere for professional
computing advice.
--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups
Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.mspx
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:
| I'll just assure my dentists, attourneys, physicians, and retail stores they
| can do the same business with linux. No problem with HIPAA or any of their
| clients right? Be serious will you?
wisdom and look elsewhere for professional
computing advice.
--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups
Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.mspx
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:
| I'll just assure my dentists, attourneys, physicians, and retail stores they
| can do the same business with linux. No problem with HIPAA or any of their
| clients right? Be serious will you?
K
kurttrail
Carey said:
The guy was dissing Linux, ya' moron!
Now I really know you just lack basic reading comprehension skills!
It's now wonder with all that sh*t in your way!
http://microscum.com/carey/
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
W
Woody
hey , i'm still playing and experimenting , but really suprised . no , linux
is not quite ready for the masses but when i see how far it's come , i
seriousely think it really is a viable alternative for many now and the way
open source is catching the eye of larger buisnesses , more large developers
jumping in will bring the changes necessary and way much faster than MS or
anyone ever expected .
this past year boston (i live just north of ) hosted both macworld and
linuxworld . the linux convention just ended and i wish i had the time , but
anyway macworld was in our huge new convention center and barely drew enough
people to bother , next year they're moving it to the old little hynes
convention center , while theyre moving linuxworld to the new one because
they couldnt let everyone that came all in at the same time ;-)
personnally , i think MS is a greedy , unethical monopoly and the best way
to cure that is with competion . and whether your opinion of MS is the same
as mine or not , you have to agree that with competition the ones that
really win are the consumers . and while letting people on an ms board know
there is an alternitive hey the MS drones feel free to chime in with their
"well if you don't like it use something else speeches " so hell , sue me
;-)
is not quite ready for the masses but when i see how far it's come , i
seriousely think it really is a viable alternative for many now and the way
open source is catching the eye of larger buisnesses , more large developers
jumping in will bring the changes necessary and way much faster than MS or
anyone ever expected .
this past year boston (i live just north of ) hosted both macworld and
linuxworld . the linux convention just ended and i wish i had the time , but
anyway macworld was in our huge new convention center and barely drew enough
people to bother , next year they're moving it to the old little hynes
convention center , while theyre moving linuxworld to the new one because
they couldnt let everyone that came all in at the same time ;-)
personnally , i think MS is a greedy , unethical monopoly and the best way
to cure that is with competion . and whether your opinion of MS is the same
as mine or not , you have to agree that with competition the ones that
really win are the consumers . and while letting people on an ms board know
there is an alternitive hey the MS drones feel free to chime in with their
"well if you don't like it use something else speeches " so hell , sue me
;-)
T
Tom
kurttrail said:
Since this is about OEM versions of Windows, I have a question, then
comments regarding it.
MS includes the two free support calls in their retail version, and that
cost is built into it, if I am not mistaken, is that correct?
MS does not include such help in OEM versions right?
OK, in this example of an OEM from Walmart, where the end user can by the
OEM with a mouse for ($129 I think I saw that). Does this follow:
MS does not support this OEM because it is the reseller that gets that onus-
Walmart won't support it, unless the mouse is the cause of the problem,
because the end user installed it on a machine that is not from Walmart.
If this is true, this is the kind of sale MS wants the most, and etals.
Bottom line Win (Seller-MS) + Win (Reseller-Walmart) = Loser (End User).
The OEM EULA is very crappy, and offers the end user no support, and very
little chance of a return if the package was opened, since that agreement
(EULA) can only be read during the setup process! If I am right? then this
is deceptive as hell, and not customer friendly/oriented.
Does this follow, you sure have looked into this over your tenure dealing
with PA?
K
kurttrail
Tom said:
Yes, and two free email support requests.
Correct. The OEM is responsible for support.
Hell, yes. The End User is deceptively screwed by MS.
The EULA is all about protecting MS's ass, and they don't give two sh*ts
about their customers. Even with retail, calling support, 9 times out
of 10 they will pass the buck to your hardware or none MS software.
OEM software is definitely a scam when sold directly to consumers from
retail sources. No one supports it, and still the manufacturer want to
be able to tell you what you can and can't do with it!
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
L
Leythos
I don't see MS as any different than any other company that is designed to
make money - heck, look at Medical Insurance companies - always increasing
rates, lowering coverages, excluding basics from coverage, etc.... MS is
just a target because they have made it work at many levels and others
just wish they could do it as well.
Competition IS the one way we all win, and it's always been a market
leveler, unless the two (or more) sides get together and price fix
My company is a MS Partner and ISV, and while some liken my opinions to
the "MS Drones" I just look at it as a realistic business perspective
instead of the personal attack view that many of the MS haters have. It
would sure be funny to see those against MS have a product/business in the
same line as see how they change their opinions once they have to run a
company/product line.
L
Leythos
MS does not directly support OEM products, the vendor selling the product
is responsible for providing support.
That is correct, WalMart will not support any Windows problems because
they don't have any technical staff or even a number you can call for
product support. WalMart is basically selling you an OEM copy for a
reasonable OEM price so that you have local access to it where you might
not have had local access to OEM software before.
MS doesn't have anything to do with the way that WalMart markets or
supports the product. Any reseller could do the same thing and until
someone takes Walmart to taks over it there is little going to be done. So
you might want to look at it like this:
WalMart (Seller) provides local user with OEM software they might not have
been able to purchase anywhere else + User Saves Money = Winner (End
User). With the notice right on the page many people will understand OEM
and only purchase if they can support it on their own, or if they don't
care and only want the cheaper price, in both cases the user is the Winner.
There is an agreement, not full, on the box and it's online - the OEM
version from the WalMart site included a LINK to the System Builders site,
if they read it they would understand fully what they are purchasing. If
they don't read it then they made an uninformed purchase and deserve what
they get.
The purchaser of OEM software from a place like WalMart, since it's not on
the shelf in the store, is going through the Web-Site and sees the notice
and the link to the Systems Builder site - they HAVE the opportunity to
read/learn about OEM if they choose too. Most purchasers will only care
about the price while a few will understand they have to support it on
their own as WalMart is not setup for support - so people purchasing OEM
software from WalMart directly save a lot of money and should understand
the support issue, it's a Win situation for the user that may not have had
access to OEM pricing anywhere else in their local area.
T
Tom
Leythos said:
What page are you talking about, a page Walmart (or another OEM reseller )
provides?
How is the EU a winner, when if they decide that the EULA isn't what they
want, they can't take it back? There is absolutely no support for that, and
it is deceptive, since how many people really think that they need to be
able to return something they no longer, but cannot, because the
documentation is on the disk, and not (all) on the box, or provided as a
separate hard copy.
How do you know the purchaser knows this, and maybe that they don't have
online access? Suppose they didn't see the software online, and simply
bought from browsing through their local walmart while shopping, and seeing
what they think is a great deal. Show me, where on the box it states the
rules in its entirety for the EU to decide what this entails.
You ignore (maybe think it doesn't exist) reality, and that everyone doesn't
know these little details, since bnot everyone is going to make their
decision ALL the time because they saw it online. Are you that simplistic
that you think that there aren't thousands of means a prospective purchaser
can see a product, other then the WWW. Is that System Builder's
documentation on the box for viewing in its entirety, (I've never seen it
before)?
K
kurttrail
Leythos said:
And the system builders License says nothing about motherboards can't be
changed on the computer!
All it says aboout the motherboard is that it a a part of a "fully
assembled computer system"!
"A 'fully assembled computer system' means a computer system consisting
of at least a central processing
unit, a motherboard, a hard drive, a power supply, and a case."
The system builders license is a redistribution license, not an End
Users license.
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
K
kurttrail
Leythos said:I don't see MS as any different than any other company that is
designed to make money - heck, look at Medical Insurance companies -
always increasing rates, lowering coverages, excluding basics from
coverage, etc.... MS is just a target because they have made it work
at many levels and others just wish they could do it as well.
Competition IS the one way we all win, and it's always been a market
leveler, unless the two (or more) sides get together and price fix
My company is a MS Partner and ISV, and while some liken my opinions
to the "MS Drones" I just look at it as a realistic business
perspective instead of the personal attack view that many of the MS
haters have. It would sure be funny to see those against MS have a
product/business in the same line as see how they change their
opinions once they have to run a company/product line.
LOL! No wonder you have no conception about the consumers point of
view!
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
L
Leythos
Since everything you said can be summarized in the above, I'll answer it
as above:
The OEM product is not in the stores that I've visited in the USA, it's
only available online, and the online page for the OEM clearly gives
directions and the link to the information about OEM software. So, that
means that the user has to already be online, has the direct link to the
licensing info, and is only uninformed if they choose to be.
I did not state anything about any other vendor or about in-store
purchases and did not infer anything about those types of purchases.
K
kurttrail
Leythos said:
Maybe you didn't read the link then. The EULA that is linked at
Walmart, and I must say that is the only site I've seen with an actual
link to the SB EULA, is for redistributing the OEM software after a
person buys it from WalMart.
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
L
Leythos
The same in our business, and we design networks and server solutions on
the MS platform - but the one time it would not happen is when a
competitor calls us in and tries to use our brains and then doesn't want
to pay for it. It would also be a problem if a competitor, even though on
nice terms, went after our client base, then I would treat them as MS does
it's competitors.
Funny thing is that many business, ones that are 7,500+ employees have
the same practices.
W
Woody
<I don't see MS as any different than any other company that is designed to
make money >
well i run a business and yes it is profitable . i have lots of competition
.. the only difference is we don't try to cut each others throats . actually
pretty much any of us could call up the other and and be greeted by " how
can i help you ?" and they'd really mean it .
<I just look at it as a realistic business perspective
instead of the personal attack view that many of the MS haters have. It
would sure be funny to see those against MS have a product/business in the
same line as see how they change their opinions once they have to run a
company/product line.>
i dont hate MS , i hate their buisness practices .
make money >
well i run a business and yes it is profitable . i have lots of competition
.. the only difference is we don't try to cut each others throats . actually
pretty much any of us could call up the other and and be greeted by " how
can i help you ?" and they'd really mean it .
<I just look at it as a realistic business perspective
instead of the personal attack view that many of the MS haters have. It
would sure be funny to see those against MS have a product/business in the
same line as see how they change their opinions once they have to run a
company/product line.>
i dont hate MS , i hate their buisness practices .
W
Woody
<Funny thing is that many business, ones that are 7,500+ employees have
the same practices.>
that doesn't make it right .
the same practices.>
that doesn't make it right .
L
Leythos
Not that I agree or disagree, but isn't it subjective? What might be
acceptable to one business does not have to be acceptable to another, and
the same true with others.
In reality, customers, which relates directly to profit margins, are the
only thing that can change a company short of a complete management change
at all levels.