Press F1

[Sonny]

Hi,

My computer keep asking me to press F1 because it can't find the floppy disk
controller when I don't even have a floppy drive. This happens once every
few days even when i changed the boot sequence and readjusted the time.

Checks with help groups suggest a faulty CMOS battery which i have replaced.
Now it happens on every boot.

Anyone knows what else could be causing the problem?

Thanks & regards

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Hi,

My computer keep asking me to press F1 because it can't find the floppy disk
controller when I don't even have a floppy drive. This happens once every
few days even when i changed the boot sequence and readjusted the time.

Checks with help groups suggest a faulty CMOS battery which i have replaced.
Now it happens on every boot.

Anyone knows what else could be causing the problem?

Thanks & regards

It would appear that, when you changed the boot order, you somehow
managed to add the option to boot from Floppy Disk to the mix, and the
system is naturally protesting that it can't find it. (There's a Floppy
controller on the motherboard, even if you don't have a floppy drive
installed.) you should be able to simply re-adjust your boot order
choices to remove the Floppy dick from contention.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[Terry R.]

On 11/27/2009 2:16 PM On a whim, Sonny pounded out on the keyboard

Hi,

My computer keep asking me to press F1 because it can't find the floppy disk
controller when I don't even have a floppy drive. This happens once every
few days even when i changed the boot sequence and readjusted the time.

Checks with help groups suggest a faulty CMOS battery which i have replaced.
Now it happens on every boot.

Anyone knows what else could be causing the problem?

Thanks& regards

Hi Sonny,

Did you try resetting the BIOS to its defaults?


Terry R.

 

[Sonny]

Terry & Bruce,

Yes, I hit delete to enter the BIOS and reset the boot order, disabled the
floppy. F10 to save and exit. It'll boot just fine.

But if I turn off the power, turn it on again and reboot, it goes into F1
again and the date reverts to November 2007.

 

[R. McCarty]

When you replaced the BIOS battery could you have inserted the
battery with the wrong polarity side up ?

Most batteries of that type only have the positive pole clearly marked.

Terry & Bruce,

Yes, I hit delete to enter the BIOS and reset the boot order, disabled the
floppy. F10 to save and exit. It'll boot just fine.

But if I turn off the power, turn it on again and reboot, it goes into F1
again and the date reverts to November 2007.

 

[SC Tom]

Sounds like you bought a bad battery or maybe put it in upside down.

SC Tom

Terry & Bruce,

Yes, I hit delete to enter the BIOS and reset the boot order, disabled the
floppy. F10 to save and exit. It'll boot just fine.

But if I turn off the power, turn it on again and reboot, it goes into F1
again and the date reverts to November 2007.

 

[ANONYMOUS]

Your system is suffering from what is commonly called "Learned
Paralysis" . This is very much like a war veteran who suffers from pain
in the arm even though that arm has been amputated!.

The solution is to reprogram your HD i.e. reformat/re-install the OS in
the same way as Professor Vilayanur Ramachandran re-programs the brains
of war veterans. Watch this video to get the idea:

<http://matthewjamestaylor.com/blog/the-synesthesia-condition-explained>

hth

 

[Sonny]

wrong side up? Hmmm

I put the flat side facing outwards. The button is down, should be correct.

Sounds like you bought a bad battery or maybe put it in upside down.

SC Tom

 

[Paul]

wrong side up? Hmmm

I put the flat side facing outwards. The button is down, should be correct.

If you have a multimeter, you can check the voltage of the battery
by touching the top of the battery with the red lead, and touching
the black lead to a shiny screw on one of the I/O connectors on the
back of the computer. (Or take it to Radio Shack and have them
measure it.)

The battery should read about 3.0V or a bit more. Best case, it
would last ten years (shelf life), or three years if the computer
is unplugged and the computer can't get any +5VSB to draw on instead.
The battery is under use, when the computer is completely switched
off or unplugged. If it reads 2.4V or lower, it is worn out.

If you leave the "Clear CMOS" jumper in the clear position, it could
be drawing 3 milliamps from the battery on a continuous basis. And
there have also been cases of some unexplained motherboard leakage,
where the thing drained faster than it is supposed to. Normally,
the battery might have a 1K ohm resistor in series with it, and
that helps limit the maximum current flow. It is possible to do
that, because the VBAT rail only normally draws a few microamps
of current, to run the "32768Hz digital watch circuit". That is
why the battery can last for 3 years with the computer unplugged.
The battery is really lightly loaded, when it is called on
for juice, and if the power supply is still operating, the
battery doesn't have to provide any current at all. A reverse
biased diode prevents current flow.

Paul

 

[Sonny]

Paul,

Thanks for your help. But it sounds so complicated, I think I'll buy another
new one. But I do think its unlikely that i bought a faulty battery.

At the moment, everyone seem to agree that the booting up is caused by the
battery. I just thought that there might be something else contributing to
the boot fault.

thanks again.

 

[VanguardLH]

Thanks for your help. But it sounds so complicated, I think I'll buy another
new one. But I do think its unlikely that i bought a faulty battery.

When removing the wafer battery from the packaging, do NOT touch with your
bare hands unless you just thoroughly washed them (and with clean soap, not
the stuff with aloe or lotions). Body oil is corrosive to the steel
contacts.

Sometimes the case in which the wafer battery slides into is pretty snug so
you have to ensure that you pressed the battery all the way down. You might
also want to give it a twists back an forth a few times to ensure the
contacts get cleaned.

After replacing the CMOS/clock wafer battery, did you short the 2-pin mobo
header that resets (clears) the CMOS table copy of the default BIOS
settings? For a dead battery, power down, replace the battery, and clear
the CMOS. Leave the jumper on the 2-pin header for about 10-20 seconds,
remove the jumper, and power up. Resetting the CMOS is mandatory after
replacing a dead battery.

 

[Paul]

When removing the wafer battery from the packaging, do NOT touch with your
bare hands unless you just thoroughly washed them (and with clean soap, not
the stuff with aloe or lotions). Body oil is corrosive to the steel
contacts.

Sometimes the case in which the wafer battery slides into is pretty snug so
you have to ensure that you pressed the battery all the way down. You might
also want to give it a twists back an forth a few times to ensure the
contacts get cleaned.

After replacing the CMOS/clock wafer battery, did you short the 2-pin mobo
header that resets (clears) the CMOS table copy of the default BIOS
settings? For a dead battery, power down, replace the battery, and clear
the CMOS. Leave the jumper on the 2-pin header for about 10-20 seconds,
remove the jumper, and power up. Resetting the CMOS is mandatory after
replacing a dead battery.

If a person is going to play with the Clear CMOS jumper, they should
disconnect the power cord from the computer. This is to prevent
damage to the motherboard. Many motherboard manuals include
advice to that effect. Not all motherboards would actually
suffer damage if the Clear CMOS jumper is used, but because
so many of them were designed with the "feature" of getting
damaged when the Clear CMOS jumper is used, it is just a good
habit to unplug when doing it.

There are some cases where the computer manual does not
have a correct procedure documented for "Clear CMOS" and
you have to download an "insert page" for the manual, which
contains a correction. So even when you're doing the
right thing, and consulting the manual, sometimes the
instructions are not correct. One memorable manual managed
to get the jumper location confused, mixing up the "clear"
and the "don't clear" jumper positions. Naturally, that
causes all sorts of grief for people who forget where
the jumper was originally.

Paul

 

[VanguardLH]

If a person is going to play with the Clear CMOS jumper, they should
disconnect the power cord from the computer. This is to prevent damage to
the motherboard.

Pulling the power cord is not required (to remove the 5-volt standby line
from an ATX-style PSU used for the power-on and wake-on-<event> logic on the
motherboard). You are not shorting a voltage line. You are dropping a
signal pin to ground or dropping the voltage across the logic to let the
memory drain; however, there is limiting resistor to prevent shorting the
power or battery to ground.

Although I don't have a circuit diagram for reference, why would the battery
exist if there were power across CMOS when the host was powered off (but
still connected with the cord)? The battery is still needed when you
soft-power off the host which means the standby power from the PSU for the
power-on logic is not available to the CMOS/RTC circuit.

 

[Sonny]

Thanks to all. The issue has been resolved.

Read somewhere that batteries left on the store shelf for too long seem like
faulty batteries. So leave the computer on at least 12 hours and it'll be
just like new.

And it works great.

Thanks again.
Sonny.

 

[VanguardLH]

Thanks to all. The issue has been resolved.

Read somewhere that batteries left on the store shelf for too long seem like
faulty batteries. So leave the computer on at least 12 hours and it'll be
just like new.

And it works great.

Shelf life is around 5 years from date of manufacture. If no expiration
date is shown on the package, figure the batteries are already 3 years old.
If a "new" battery just inserted still causes problems then it could be a
weak battery. It may measure as good voltage when tested with a DVM but
drop its voltage under load (i.e., when inserted in the circuit).
Personally I wouldn't trust a battery that was supposedly new and didn't
work immediately in the circuit.

Was this a CR-2032 wafer (coin cell) battery? They don't need a breaking in
time to get somehow "better". That is a 3V lithium battery.

There is typically a capacitor with an in-series resistor are in parallel
with the battery. This is what holds the voltage on the CMOS memory when
you are swapping out the battery to replace it. How old is this
motherboard?

 

[Paul]

Thanks to all. The issue has been resolved.

Read somewhere that batteries left on the store shelf for too long seem like
faulty batteries. So leave the computer on at least 12 hours and it'll be
just like new.

And it works great.

Thanks again.
Sonny.

The computer *does not* charge that battery. If the battery
voltage is below 3.0V and the claim is that the battery
is new, it is worn out. Once they hit the "knee" area
of the discharge curve, they relatively rapidly head
for zero volts. The computer needs at least 2.4V for
reliable operation from that battery. The guy at
Radio Shack can test it for you.

If you attempt to charge a CR-2032, it will explode.
(Or, it will swell and come apart.) Gases generated
internally have to escape. If you read the spec sheet
for the battery, it can only tolerate a charging current
of 1 microamp or so. Any more than that (i.e. a real and
effective level of charging current) would cause it to
pop. The motherboard schematic is explicitly designed to
prevent charging of the battery. The battery is only
allowed to discharge.

Paul

 

[Paul]

Pulling the power cord is not required (to remove the 5-volt standby line
from an ATX-style PSU used for the power-on and wake-on-<event> logic on the
motherboard). You are not shorting a voltage line. You are dropping a
signal pin to ground or dropping the voltage across the logic to let the
memory drain; however, there is limiting resistor to prevent shorting the
power or battery to ground.

Although I don't have a circuit diagram for reference, why would the battery
exist if there were power across CMOS when the host was powered off (but
still connected with the cord)? The battery is still needed when you
soft-power off the host which means the standby power from the PSU for the
power-on logic is not available to the CMOS/RTC circuit.

I recommend pulling the power cord, as a simple way to ensure that the
computer is completely un-powered. When dealing with people on the Internet,
you can't be sure they'll follow all the instructions well. Rather than
ruin their motherboard, and have them complain later, it is easier to
just get them to pull the power cord. It is an easy rule to remember.

I dealt with one person, where it turned out his power switch had failed
in the ON position. That has only happened the once, in the time I've been
helping people.

As for the circuit details, try page 18 lower left corner of this file.
The battery is down in that corner. This is an Intel reference schematic.

http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/designex/BXDPDG10.PDF

In that schematic, two BAR43 diodes are ORing power together. The
higher voltage of the CR2032 battery voltage, or the "3VSB" rail
derived from +5VSB, is used to power the "RTC_BAT" node. If the
"3VSB" has a higher voltage than the battery, then the BAR43 next
to the battery will be reverse biases. If the +5VSB on the computer
is removed (by switching off the supply or by unplugging it), the
battery becomes the sole source of power. The BAR43 on the battery
is then forward biased and current can flow. Current can never
flow backwards into the battery, and the motherboard cannot
charge the battery because of that diode.

The 1K ohm resistor seems to be there, to prevent the battery from
being shorted to ground. A resistor like that, causing a high
source impedance, can be present, because at the time that the
+5VSB is removed, the computer isn't running, and there are no
accesses to the CMOS well on the Southbridge. Because there
are no accesses to the CMOS well, there is no "dynamic" current
flow. Only a very tiny current (a few microamps) is required to
run the ripple divider and digital counters on the RTC.
The voltage drop across the 1K resistor is minimal under
those conditions (a few microamps times 1K ohm).

When the computer is running, the BAR43 above the battery is
reverse biased and the battery is not an issue. Notice there
is no 1K resistor in the 3VSB path. That allows more significant
dynamic current flow, when Windows goes to read the RTC and
copy the current time into system memory.

Now, when you look at that circuit, you're going to say
"but Paul, how does the circuit get damaged ?". This example
from Intel is designed properly. It doesn't have a design issue.
The circuit would not be damaged, if you left the computer
powered and played with the jumper. But designers other than
the staff at Intel, seem to feel it is fair game to short
the RTC_BAT node to ground. With no current limit resistor.
In other words, the affected motherboards, the ones that can
be damaged, use a minor variation of that circuit. And those
are the ones that get damaged. The BAR43 in the upper leg, is
the component that burns.

On all the motherboards I own here, the two diodes are contained
in a three-legged transistor-like package, so in fact both diodes
are damaged at the same time, because they share a common plastic
package.

One person, who burned his dual diode, was able to
solder a couple 1N914/1N4148 type diodes in as a substitute.
I didn't recommend that, but that is what the guy had on
hand, and his computer worked properly after the repair.
Silicon diodes like 1N914/1N4148 have a higher forward
voltage drop than the Schottky diodes shown in the
Intel schematic. But as long as the circuit works
when the soldering is done, that probably doesn't
matter that much. The battery discharge curve
is sharp enough, that it probably doesn't affect
perceived battery life.

This is the dual diode package used on my Asus motherboards,
for that part of the circuit. Asus uses a BAT40W-05, common
cathode diode package. "K45" is the marking on top of the
device (i.e. marking is not the same thing as a part number),
and you can typically find that tiny thing, near
the CMOS battery. When it burns, the legend on the
top is no longer readable.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040229224112/http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/ds30114.pdf

HTH,
Paul

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I recommend pulling the power cord, as a simple way to ensure that the
computer is completely un-powered. When dealing with people on the Internet,
you can't be sure they'll follow all the instructions well. Rather than
ruin their motherboard, and have them complain later, it is easier to
just get them to pull the power cord. It is an easy rule to remember.

I have no disagreement with your recommendation, but it's important to
realize that you can *still* ruin the motherboard even with the power
cord pulled. You need to ground yourself before touching anything
inside the case to prevent static electricity discharges.

 

[Paul]

I have no disagreement with your recommendation, but it's important to
realize that you can *still* ruin the motherboard even with the power
cord pulled. You need to ground yourself before touching anything
inside the case to prevent static electricity discharges.

The difference is, on the affected motherboards (motherboards that
are poorly designed with respect to the Clear CMOS jumper), it
is guaranteed to burn the diode if you don't power off. With not
following electrostatic discharge precautions, there are still statistics
at play, and local conditions to consider. For example, if you're
wearing an angora sweater and wooden shoes, you might raise the
odds of ESD damage, compared to a barefoot worker with less
static generating clothing.

If someone wants to work inside a computer, wear one of these
and clip onto a ground point on the metal chassis. The wrist
strap has a series resistor to limit ESD current flow, which is
why it is superior to a home made solution (of making your
own wire). Even if you're wearing your angora sweater, by using
one of these, the hardware may survive the adventure.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2479151

In a real hardware environment, *everything* is antistatic. Antistatic
flooring (which you're not allowed to wax). Antistatic bench mats,
tied into bench ground. $1200 to $2000 antistatic chairs. Antistatic
heel clips or antistatic shoes. And your wrist strap. Using just
the wrist strap is a bandaid solution, and someone could always
find fault with just that as well. When you work in a facility
with people assigned to check you're following all the ESD rules,
that is what kind of stuff is used. But a wrist strap goes a long
way, to preventing your work inside your home computer from
turning out bad. If you can't afford a wrist strap, you can
always bring yourself to chassis potential, before handling
items in the computer. And make good use of antistatic storage
bags, for anything you pull out of a socket. Bring the antistatic
bag to the same potential as the chassis, before sliding
a DIMM or a PCI card into the bag.

Paul