Please help with configuration

[DK]

Hello all,

I realize that the requests like this are very frequent. But please,
if you have time and knowledge, share it - the technologies
and specs change too fast for a casual observer to keep good track
of them.

I need to order a desktop computer for around $2,000 (no monitor;
nothing fancy in extras - basic sound, basic ethernet). This is in an
environment where whole computers can only be replaced very
occasionally (say, 5 years; but ~ $200 upgrades are easy annualy).
What this is for:

1) Calculation-intensive tasks, mostly fortran with python or Tcl-Tk++
around it.
2) MUST be competent/compatible enough with Linux and Windows.
In fact, I am planning to have a dual boot system and be able to run
any other OS in emulation if the moment calls for it.
3) Good graphics capabilities for 3D molecular graphics. No
games. Just things like 3D modeling and ray traycing. Real quad
stereo would be nice but not priority or required.
4) Solid local backup. I am thinking of a setup where I have two
disks, one being kept a copy of another. Right now 500 Mb each
is plenty enough but I am thinking about future.

The bureaucracy limits me to few sources: Dell, CDW or a
local vendor. Local is CPU Solutions http://www.cpusolutions.com
(NO this is not a spam; most likely, I will buy from them).
As an example, here I am, looking at the "Customize your Sonata
Core i7 Custom Quad Core PC":
http://www.cpusolutions.com/8004744cpu/customkititems.asp?kc=CPUSQC6600

Things I have hard time with:
- CPU - is i7 really a best choice?
- case/cooler/ - do they really matter? (at home I have a noise-free
system but at work this is not an issue.
- graphics card (haven't upgraded one for 7 years)
- memory (most of the available software is for 32-bit OSes; does
it make any sense to buy more than 4 Gb memory; which memory
brand is reliable?)

Thanks so much for any input.

Dima

 

[JR Weiss]

I need to order a desktop computer for around $2,000 (no monitor;
nothing fancy in extras - basic sound, basic ethernet). This is in an
environment where whole computers can only be replaced very
occasionally (say, 5 years; but ~ $200 upgrades are easy annualy).
What this is for:

1) Calculation-intensive tasks, mostly fortran with python or Tcl-Tk++
around it.
2) MUST be competent/compatible enough with Linux and Windows.
In fact, I am planning to have a dual boot system and be able to run
any other OS in emulation if the moment calls for it.
3) Good graphics capabilities for 3D molecular graphics. No
games. Just things like 3D modeling and ray traycing. Real quad
stereo would be nice but not priority or required.
4) Solid local backup. I am thinking of a setup where I have two
disks, one being kept a copy of another. Right now 500 Mb each
is plenty enough but I am thinking about future.

The bureaucracy limits me to few sources: Dell, CDW or a
local vendor. Local is CPU Solutions http://www.cpusolutions.com
(NO this is not a spam; most likely, I will buy from them).
As an example, here I am, looking at the "Customize your Sonata
Core i7 Custom Quad Core PC":
http://www.cpusolutions.com/8004744cpu/customkititems.asp?kc=CPUSQC6600

Things I have hard time with:
- CPU - is i7 really a best choice?
- case/cooler/ - do they really matter? (at home I have a noise-free
system but at work this is not an issue.
- graphics card (haven't upgraded one for 7 years)
- memory (most of the available software is for 32-bit OSes; does
it make any sense to buy more than 4 Gb memory; which memory
brand is reliable?)

CPU: For performance, i7 is now the right choice. Ensure the
motherboard has a chipset that utilizes all 3 channels of DDR3 RAM
(e.g., an Intel X58 chipset) The Phenom II is not yet there.

Case/cooler: Yes, they matter. When the CPU and/or are under full
load for an extended period, keeping core temps under control is a
primary consideration. IMO, an aluminum case like the Lian-Li PC60+2
is preferable
(http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=179&cl_inde
x=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=62), but a good steel one is OK if you don't
worry about weight. There are many reviews available on aftermarket
coolers; I chose Noctua; look at the U12P and C12P, depending on case
and motherboard layout
(http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=produkte&lng=en).

Graphics: ATI and nVidia are the players. The high-end cards are for
gamers. The middle-of-the-road cards are probably what you're looking
for. I like the ATI 4670 GPU for reasonable power with low electrical
load. I also like the HIS coolers
(http://www.hisdigital.com/un/product2-65.shtml).

Memory: With both Win 7 and Linux, you should opt for the 64-bit OS if
possible. That will release you from the RAM limits of the 32-bit
variety, and allow you to properly utilize 6 GB of DDR3 RAM at
reasonable cost. The higher-end lines of Crucial, OCZ, Kingston,
Corsair, and Patriot are all good. Shop for price once you reach the
level of cooling (heat spreaders and/or pipes) you want. The OCZ
Reaper series works for me.

 

[Dave C.]

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 02:01:51 GMT

Hello all,

I realize that the requests like this are very frequent. But please,
if you have time and knowledge, share it - the technologies
and specs change too fast for a casual observer to keep good track
of them.

I need to order a desktop computer for around $2,000 (no monitor;
nothing fancy in extras - basic sound, basic ethernet). This is in an
environment where whole computers can only be replaced very
occasionally (say, 5 years; but ~ $200 upgrades are easy annualy).
What this is for:

1) Calculation-intensive tasks, mostly fortran with python or Tcl-Tk++
around it.
2) MUST be competent/compatible enough with Linux and Windows.
In fact, I am planning to have a dual boot system and be able to run
any other OS in emulation if the moment calls for it.
3) Good graphics capabilities for 3D molecular graphics. No
games. Just things like 3D modeling and ray traycing. Real quad
stereo would be nice but not priority or required.
4) Solid local backup. I am thinking of a setup where I have two
disks, one being kept a copy of another. Right now 500 Mb each
is plenty enough but I am thinking about future.

The bureaucracy limits me to few sources: Dell, CDW or a
local vendor. Local is CPU Solutions http://www.cpusolutions.com
(NO this is not a spam; most likely, I will buy from them).
As an example, here I am, looking at the "Customize your Sonata
Core i7 Custom Quad Core PC":
http://www.cpusolutions.com/8004744cpu/customkititems.asp?kc=CPUSQC6600

Things I have hard time with:
- CPU - is i7 really a best choice?

It's a good one. You could go with a Phenom quad-core as well. But CPU solutions seems to favor the Intel route, nothing wrong with that.

- case/cooler/ - do they really matter? (at home I have a noise-free
system but at work this is not an issue.

Yes, they matter. But Antec makes some decent cases. Anything in an Antec case should be reasonably cool and quiet.

- graphics card (haven't upgraded one for 7 years)

For what you are doing, just about any mid-range card today should work. The default MSI HD 4650 should work. I'd upgrade to a Sapphire HD 4850, but that's only because I like Sapphire cards.

- memory (most of the available software is for 32-bit OSes; does
it make any sense to buy more than 4 Gb memory; which memory
brand is reliable?)

If you are doing DDR3, your choices are 3GB (3 X 1GB) or 6GB (3 X 2GB). That's a tough choice. If you are going to run 32-bit OS and NEVER going to run a 64-bit OS, then you will need to accept the default choice of (3 X 1GB) for 3GB of RAM. THat's about the most that the OS will address anyway. So spending ~$75 to upgrade to 6GB would do you no good. Unless you ever want to run a 64-bit OS. If you are ever going to run a 64-bit OS, then go with 6GB RAM right away. That way you won't have to replace your RAM later.

Oh, and it seems CPU Solutions only offers Kingston ValueRam, which is FINE. If you have a choice, some other good brands are OCZ, Crucial, Corsair, G.Skill, and a few others I can't remember off the top of my head right now.

Thanks so much for any input.

Dima

If you are ordering that system from CPU Solutions, the only upgrade you MUST do is select a better power supply. You do not want the default Cooler Master (or Cooler Master anything, for that matter). I'd suggest you upgrade to the Antec Truepower Quattro 850. That is more power supply than you will need. HOWEVER, as it's only a few dollars more than some of the other power supplies that you should consider, the Quattro 850 is a real bargain...kind of like getting a Mercedes for the cost of a Chevy.

Oh! I just noticed the default power supply is "green". Definitely upgrade that to black. -Dave

 

[Dave C.]

He didn't comment on the motherboard, because MoBo brand is essentailly
a matter of personal preference. However, I admit to liking Gigabyte,
and the UD4P MoBo is a nice one for an extra $5.

Yeah, Gigabyte is probably a better brand than MSI. But I haven't heard too many complaints about MSI, so it probably doesn't make that much difference. I'd probably spend the extra $5 for the Gigabyte too, though. Just because I'm familiar with that brand.

I'd go with the 4670 unless there is a specific need for the 4850; it
uses about half the power...

Fair enough. My last build used a 4850, and with the power supply I ended up buying (before I'd spec'd out the rest of the system), I didn't CARE how much the video card was going to use. (evil grin) But if the 4670 really uses half the power, I'm impressed!!!

I'd go for the 3x2GB solution. You will likely gain a bit of usable
RAM on a 32-bit OS (I get 3.5 GB on XP Pro), and will have enough to
support a 64-bit OS via dual-boot and/or virtual machines.

Yeah, I run Vista on 4GB, even though it doesn't use it all. Was originally going to go 64-bit vista, but couldn't get some of my software to work on that (I tried) without replacing it. Read: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, wasn't worth it, just stuck with the 32-bit.

I think the OP was pretty clear that he's stuck at 32-bit. So I think 3GB is correct. But then, it's not his money, so what's an extra $75 bucks eh?

I'd go with the Antec EA650 or TruePower 650 PSU. You don't need a
bigger one for your usage. The TruePower might be a bit more efficient
that the Earthwatts, but the difference will be miniscule.

Those are both OK suggestions as far as being "better than average" quality. I'm a bit of a snob when it comes to power supplies. I have to be, as it's getting harder and harder to find any really GOOD quality ones. I'd prefer a Corsair something or other, or the larger TruePower units, above 650. At least, on the list that the particular vendor offers.

upgrade that to black.

I think he meant the HDD here, and I agree!

Yup, typo. You do not want a green HDD. -Dave

 

[JR Weiss]

http://www.cpusolutions.com/8004744cpu/customkititems.asp?kc=CPUSQC6600

I didn't follow the link to the vendor yesterday. I've added a couple
comments to Dave's recommendations below.

He didn't comment on the motherboard, because MoBo brand is essentailly
a matter of personal preference. However, I admit to liking Gigabyte,
and the UD4P MoBo is a nice one for an extra $5.

Yes, they matter. But Antec makes some decent cases. Anything in an
Antec case should be reasonably cool and quiet.

Look at newegg, tomshardware, and/or Maximum PC magazine on line for
case reviews and descriptions from among the choices. There may be a
feature in a particular case that sways you.

For what you are doing, just about any mid-range card today should
work. The default MSI HD 4650 should work. I'd upgrade to a
Sapphire HD 4850, but that's only because I like Sapphire cards.

I'd go with the 4670 unless there is a specific need for the 4850; it
uses about half the power...

If you are doing DDR3, your choices are 3GB (3 X 1GB) or 6GB (3 X
2GB). That's a tough choice. If you are going to run 32-bit OS and
NEVER going to run a 64-bit OS, then you will need to accept the
default choice of (3 X 1GB) for 3GB of RAM. THat's about the most
that the OS will address anyway. So spending ~$75 to upgrade to 6GB
would do you no good. Unless you ever want to run a 64-bit OS. If
you are ever going to run a 64-bit OS, then go with 6GB RAM right
away. That way you won't have to replace your RAM later.

I'd go for the 3x2GB solution. You will likely gain a bit of usable
RAM on a 32-bit OS (I get 3.5 GB on XP Pro), and will have enough to
support a 64-bit OS via dual-boot and/or virtual machines.

If you are ordering that system from CPU Solutions, the only upgrade
you MUST do is select a better power supply. You do not want the
default Cooler Master (or Cooler Master anything, for that matter).
I'd suggest you upgrade to the Antec Truepower Quattro 850. That is
more power supply than you will need. HOWEVER, as it's only a few
dollars more than some of the other power supplies that you should
consider, the Quattro 850 is a real bargain...kind of like getting a
Mercedes for the cost of a Chevy.

I'd go with the Antec EA650 or TruePower 650 PSU. You don't need a
bigger one for your usage. The TruePower might be a bit more efficient
that the Earthwatts, but the difference will be miniscule.

Oh! I just noticed the default power supply is "green". Definitely

upgrade that to black.

I think he meant the HDD here, and I agree!

Also, I'd think about a fast boot HD like a WD Raptor or Velociraptor.
They offer the Raptor 150, which is a very nice HD, but the 300 GB
Velociraptor is faster/better yet!

I don't know why they don't offer XP/Vista Pro with the Win7 upgrade...
You might think about the business version if it upgrades to Win7 Pro.

Upgrade the speakers. If you're going for 4-channel or 5.1, the X540
should be worth the money. Otherwise, look for a Z2300 set for a good
2.1 solution.

An add-in sound card will be a good idea if you are an audiophile. The
X-Fi Extreme is fine, or stay with the on-board sound to save the $50.

So now you're at $1755, which is well under your $2000 cap.

 

[Dave C.]

Thanks, Dave, JR Weiss and Steve - things are a lot clearer now!

One thing I forgot to ask: motherboards? Reliability is by far the most
important parameter here. Any standouts?

Of the brands still making motherboards, Gigabyte is your best bet for reliability.

Other things being equal,
is there anything that makes one of the brands to be special?
I am partial to Asus only because those MBs served me well at
home - is it still one of the better choices?

Dima

I'll get flamed for this, but Asus never was one of the better choices. Mediocre quality, WAY over-hyped. I'm glad you had good luck with them. Played the lottery lately? -Dave

 

[DK]

Hello all,

I realize that the requests like this are very frequent. But please,
if you have time and knowledge, share it - the technologies
and specs change too fast for a casual observer to keep good track
of them.

Thanks, Dave, JR Weiss and Steve - things are a lot clearer now!

One thing I forgot to ask: motherboards? Reliability is by far the most
important parameter here. Any standouts? Other things being equal,
is there anything that makes one of the brands to be special?
I am partial to Asus only because those MBs served me well at
home - is it still one of the better choices?

Dima

 

[david]

Thanks, Dave, JR Weiss and Steve - things are a lot clearer now!

One thing I forgot to ask: motherboards? Reliability is by far the most
important parameter here. Any standouts? Other things being equal, is
there anything that makes one of the brands to be special? I am partial
to Asus only because those MBs served me well at home - is it still one
of the better choices?

Dima

Since every motherboard is manufactured in China now, I think reliability
is hit or miss. I have had good luck with Intel-branded motherboards,
not so good luck with Asus. Considering they are probably built right
beside each other in the same Chinese sweatshop, YMMV.

 

[JR Weiss]

One thing I forgot to ask: motherboards? Reliability is by far the
most important parameter here. Any standouts? Other things being
equal, is there anything that makes one of the brands to be special?
I am partial to Asus only because those MBs served me well at
home - is it still one of the better choices?

Electrolytic (liquid core) capacitors have been a significant problem
in the past. Gigabyte (and likely others) use solid-state capacitors
in their better boards. Look for that in the specs, like Gigabyte's
"Ultra Durable" spec:

50,000 Hours Japanese Solid Capacitors
GIGABYTE Ultra Durable motherboards are equipped with solid capacitors
developed by leading Japanese manufacturers. With an average lifespan
of 50,000 hours, these solid capacitors provide the stability,
reliability and longevity essential to meet the power needs of high-end
processors and other components running today's most demanding
applications and games.

 

[SteveH]

Of the brands still making motherboards, Gigabyte is your best bet
for reliability.


I'll get flamed for this, but Asus never was one of the better
choices. Mediocre quality, WAY over-hyped. I'm glad you had good
luck with them. Played the lottery lately? -Dave

I've used more Asus boards for builds than I care to remember. And for me,
its the only brand that hasn't thrown up a fault at one time or another -
I'm just lucky I guess.