{PL] Small suggestions for Pricelessware.Org

[BillR]

I'll take the sun and the moon now, the stars tomorrow. ;-)

An interesting and different approach to presenting Pricelessware
information.

A few small suggestions to polish an already quite well-done site:

Emphasize the subheading above the detailed entry. Perhaps make just
the subhead bold (e.g., xxx / yyy / <b>zzz</b>") or a larger font?
Currently the size of the download is considerably more prominent than
subheading.

In fact the download size is more prominent than the title and author!
(To be fair, that may be because I'm moderately red/green colorblind --
but then so are a substantial minority of men and some women -- and
need new glasses). Perhaps the title (and version?) could be in a
slightly larger font and/or indented to the gutter below.
Alternatively, right justify the row titles so that the left justified
program title is more prominent. That also would be consistent with
your menu justification.

Some headings wrap to a second line. I find that distracting,
especially with the title/version combination. Wrapping also makes
copying and pasting the data into my download manager more difficult.
Perhaps the heading could become either just(?) the title/version (and
date?) or always two lines (e.g., title/version and date over size and
author)?

Also, is there really a reason to have the size be bold? I rather like
having the date be prominent but I suspect that may be just me.
Perhaps title/version and author over date and size?

"!!Direct Download!!" is misleading and the red excessive. Featuring
the name of the file as the link would be more useful. (This is also
where I would prefer to see the dl size but that is probably just me.)

Hmmm, now I can't find the link I thought led to a download page
instead of the download itself. Either way, I would prefer to see the
name of the file featured, especially for direct downloads.

I don't see a menu item for contact nor is it at the bottom of the
page.

The menu on the left does not indicate which topic is currently being
visited.

Someone browsing might find either next/previous topic buttons or the
menus handy upon reaching the bottom of the page.

Nice sun. Now for the moon. I'll leave the stars (e.g.,
cross-referencing jv16 Powertools to Cleaner: Files and Registry) for
another day.

What do others think? Agreement? Brickbats? Either way,
congratulations are in order.
BillR

P.S. I hope this post has fewer grammar errors! (yAAWWn)

 

[Garrett]

I'll take the sun and the moon now, the stars tomorrow. ;-)

An interesting and different approach to presenting Pricelessware
information.

A few small suggestions to polish an already quite well-done site:

Emphasize the subheading above the detailed entry. Perhaps make just
the subhead bold (e.g., xxx / yyy / <b>zzz</b>") or a larger font?
Currently the size of the download is considerably more prominent than
subheading.

In fact the download size is more prominent than the title and author!
(To be fair, that may be because I'm moderately red/green colorblind
-- but then so are a substantial minority of men and some women -- and
need new glasses). Perhaps the title (and version?) could be in a
slightly larger font and/or indented to the gutter below.
Alternatively, right justify the row titles so that the left justified
program title is more prominent. That also would be consistent with
your menu justification.

Some headings wrap to a second line. I find that distracting,
especially with the title/version combination. Wrapping also makes
copying and pasting the data into my download manager more difficult.
Perhaps the heading could become either just(?) the title/version (and
date?) or always two lines (e.g., title/version and date over size and
author)?

Also, is there really a reason to have the size be bold? I rather
like having the date be prominent but I suspect that may be just me.
Perhaps title/version and author over date and size?

"!!Direct Download!!" is misleading and the red excessive. Featuring
the name of the file as the link would be more useful. (This is also
where I would prefer to see the dl size but that is probably just me.)

Hmmm, now I can't find the link I thought led to a download page
instead of the download itself. Either way, I would prefer to see the
name of the file featured, especially for direct downloads.

I don't see a menu item for contact nor is it at the bottom of the
page.

The menu on the left does not indicate which topic is currently being
visited.

Someone browsing might find either next/previous topic buttons or the
menus handy upon reaching the bottom of the page.

Nice sun. Now for the moon. I'll leave the stars (e.g.,
cross-referencing jv16 Powertools to Cleaner: Files and Registry) for
another day.

What do others think? Agreement? Brickbats? Either way,
congratulations are in order.
BillR

P.S. I hope this post has fewer grammar errors! (yAAWWn)

BillR, thanks for the info, I'll see what I can do with some of your
suggestions.

It is more than possible that some of the direct downloads are no
longer direct downloads. I'll be going through during this month and
rechecking all the entries again.

-Garrett

 

[Ben Cooper]

BillR, thanks for the info, I'll see what I can do with some of your
suggestions.

It is more than possible that some of the direct downloads are no
longer direct downloads. I'll be going through during this month and
rechecking all the entries again.

How did BillR know about updates to your site? I don't recall seeing any
requests posted to the group as to how the site should be presented.

 

[Mark Warner]

How did BillR know about updates to your site?

Uhm... went to the site, maybe?

 

[miskairal]

BillR wrote:




BillR, thanks for the info, I'll see what I can do with some of your
suggestions.

It is more than possible that some of the direct downloads are no
longer direct downloads. I'll be going through during this month and
rechecking all the entries again.

-Garrett

Just to be difficult - I like the red "Direct Download"

miskairal

 

[Garrett]

I'll take the sun and the moon now, the stars tomorrow. ;-)

[snip]

BillR, again, thanks for the suggestions. I was able to implement some
of your suggestions already. I do hope they match what you were
thinking of. Many of the suggestions seemed logical, so I'm glad you
pointed these things out.

I'll look over the rest of the suggestions later.

Best regards,
-Garrett

 

[Garrett]

Ben Cooper wrote:

[snip]

How did BillR know about updates to your site? I don't recall seeing
any requests posted to the group as to how the site should be
presented.

I was not planning on making any post about the site being updated.
With the history of events still being fresh in the minds of many, I
did not feel it would be in good form to make such a post. Figured if
anyone was that interested, they'd eventually visit the site and see
what's up there. Just trying to keep the flames down to embers if at
all possible.

-Garrett

 

[Garrett]

miskairal wrote:

[snip]

Just to be difficult - I like the red "Direct Download"

miskairal

Well, I did a bit of adjusting due to BillR's suggestions. Take a
looksie and see if that looks fine for you. If not, It's not a major
task to adjust to something else. The pages are generated by a program
I made, so I merely need to tweek a template or two, click a button and
then upload the pages.

-Garrett

 

[BillR]

Uhm... went to the site, maybe?

Yes. Purely fortuitous. I was researching a possible response to a
request in ACF. My links didn't work several times some minutes
apart, so I decided to see if anything was up. Imagine my surprise.

Just visited the site and noticed several changes along the lines of
my suggestions. I expected a little discussion (and appreciation of
your hard work) before any changes. I didn't expect "instant"
changes!! Wow.

I wonder what others think of the original versus the revised format?
The former certainly had a nice visual appearance.


I hesitate to offer another observation _for_discussion_. While using
the subcategories, I noticed that they are ordered L-R, T-B. They
will be easier to use if ordered T-B and then wrapped to column 2.

Adjacent categories are often related (e.g., Internet has a number of
Download, Email, etc., categories. Users will have a much easier time
noticing and comparing logically adjacent categories if they are
physically adjacent. For example all three Download categories would
be immediately adjacent instead of spread across two columns.

Email categories are spread across two columns currently with the most
closely related categories generally in different columns. Notice how
much easier it is to compare several Email categories vertically than
to identify the new information going L,R,L,R,L,R.

While not everyone will agree with my prior conclusion there is an
obvious measure. Examine the categories again while noticing you eye
movements. Your eye moves much more smoothly going down the column
versus back and forth. Many of you will even be able to read two or
three categories when they differ by only one word. Can anyone say
the same about two entries in separate columns?

Similarly, although I like the symmetry on the index page, I was
initially (briefly) confused when the order in the menu on the left
didn't match. These categories are not nearly as related (although
they are not logically independent), so the order doesn't matter as
much as long as it is the same. (One also could argue for having
these be alphabetical.)

You could preserve an interesting symmetrical pattern by using L-R,
T-B. If they fit, the summary pages might go nicely either in the
bottom middle or at the bottom L-R, thereby forming a rectangle while
still being visually quite distinct from the subcategories.

Comments? Brickbats? Flowers?

Definitely metaphorical flowers for Garret and company for the
thoughtfulness and hard work reflected in the site.

BillR

 

[Garrett]

BillR wrote:

[snip]

BillR

Yes, the links on the left are no longer alpha... I was trying to make
things easy on the eyes and less chaotic as possible. I wanted a flow
that made the visitor comfortable. Unfortunately, doing such does have
it's drawbacks aswell.

The site was intentionally designed to contract or expand, so it is
visible from 640x480 on up to 1200x1024, or greater.

With the suggestions you made earlier, the header bars of the entries
no longer wrap. That is, unless you view the site lower than 800x600
resolution. Then a few entries may wrap to a second line.

You can even increase the font of the browser, but to a degree. If you
push the font up too high, then the design does begin to fail and it
will become a bit chaotic.

The other failing of this kind of design is that it's not text only
browser friendly, or usable for the seeing impaired. But! I'll be
adding a text only version of the site soon. That will take care of
our text only browser users and seeing impaired friends.

I'm more than open to discussions, suggestions, comments etc...

The navigation links and such can also be changed without headache if
alpha is better for the visitors to the site.

The sub catagories were generated in an alpha order, but that can be
changed if need be.

Just remember that my goal is to try and keep the flow of the site
going. Allow the user to smoothly and quickly navigate without having
to hesitate to find the right link etc. Easier said than done of
course, but the best anyone can do is to at least try.

The "Install" and "Uninstall" data is not correct yet, so please ignore
these for the time being. I have not yet had the chance to check all
the programs listed for this.

I thank you and anyone else who has made suggestions and or is open to
making more suggestions or comments in the future regarding this
particular site.

In the coming months, I have some wonderful things coming that I hope
everyone will like and appreciate, but mums the word for now.


Thanks,
-Garrett

 

[Peter Seiler]

miskairal - 09.08.2004 00:55 :

Just to be difficult - I like the red "Direct Download"

please, it's not a good idea posting all the 75 quoting lines [snipped]
again for different reasons... only to say "Just to be...".

 

[BillR]

BillR wrote:

[snip]

BillR

Yes, the links on the left are no longer alpha... I was trying to make
things easy on the eyes and less chaotic as possible. I wanted a flow
that made the visitor comfortable. Unfortunately, doing such does have
it's drawbacks aswell.

I think you have made the site "easy on the eyes and less chaotic".
No design is without tradeoffs that are sometimes only apparent (at
least to me) after implementation.

I'm more than open to discussions, suggestions, comments etc...

As you've demonstrated. Also very quick.

The navigation links and such can also be changed without headache if
alpha is better for the visitors to the site.

The sub catagories were generated in an alpha order, but that can be
changed if need be.

Alphabetical order is good for the subcategories because many of the
names were obviously selected with that in mind. I'm just suggesting
newspaper style columns for them.

Just remember that my goal is to try and keep the flow of the site
going. Allow the user to smoothly and quickly navigate without having
to hesitate to find the right link etc. Easier said than done of
course, but the best anyone can do is to at least try.

As (I hope) I said somewhere ealier, my suggestions apply polish.

In the coming months, I have some wonderful things coming that I hope
everyone will like and appreciate, but mums the word for now.

Garrett, you and prior ACF Pricelessware contributors have already
provided "some wonderful things". I eagerly await further
refinements.

The sun and the moon are aligning. The stars appear near.

BillR

 

[Ben Cooper]

Ben Cooper wrote:

[snip]

How did BillR know about updates to your site? I don't recall seeing
any requests posted to the group as to how the site should be
presented.

I was not planning on making any post about the site being updated.
With the history of events still being fresh in the minds of many, I
did not feel it would be in good form to make such a post. Figured if
anyone was that interested, they'd eventually visit the site and see
what's up there. Just trying to keep the flames down to embers if at
all possible.

I thought maybe my ISP's server didn't pick up an announcement post.
Cox, which I use at home can be flaky at times. Qwest, which I use in my
office can be downright horrible. As I'm looking at it now, the Qwest
server is missing about half of this thread (including the post I made
yesterday) and I can see several other threads which are missing the
original posts.

 

[BillR]

miskairal wrote:

[snip]

Just to be difficult - I like the red "Direct Download"

miskairal

I hope not "just to be difficult" but "eye" of the beholder. After
scrolling once, the bold red entries are by far the most prominent
items on the page. They would remain so even with the larger program
title font due to the contrast. The normal (paper) chromatic emphasis
intensifies on monitors because red and blue have slightly different
focal lengths. I haven't checked the color but I'll bet it probably
has a touch of blue.

Well, I did a bit of adjusting due to BillR's suggestions. Take a
looksie and see if that looks fine for you. If not, It's not a major
task to adjust to something else. The pages are generated by a program
I made, so I merely need to tweek a template or two, click a button and
then upload the pages.

Template or not, every tweak is work. Thanks for critically
evaluating and then incorporating the suggestions, Garrett.


Please evaluate a few more comments. Not all of these ideas are
mutually compatible but with adjustment some might spark improvements.

Author is getting lost in the new program header. This is probably
due to its unique placement (the only item justified to the right
edge) as well as the color. The color of the link blends with the
background gradient for some of us. Approximately 2-10% of men
(depending upon ethnicity) are color deficient to some degree. (One
source claims other sources claim 12-20% of white male Americans are
colorblind.)


Indent Title and Author so they are closer together. Perhaps left and
right indent them the width of the gutter? Perhaps center Name and
Author within their respective fields? That will automatically the
Name more prominent as well. Increase the contrast between the Author
and background.

This may not be consistent with making the subcategories within
(between) the program listings more prominent if the subcategory
remains at the end of the string. Place the enlarged (or bold?)
subcategory before the navigation string:

Email: Checking (Home / Internet / Email: Checking)

Garrett, I appreciate your sensitivity to those who (voluntarily or
involuntarily) rely upon text browsers, use varying display
resolutions, and so on.

One additional idea. Please consider adding a temporary design
implementation area to the site that contains an appropriate page or
pages reflecting the prior version of the template. The versions
could be labeled with the effective date and a brief description of
the template changes.

This will allow someone to compare two (or more) approaches or to see
what posts are describing. You are incorporating suggestions so
quickly that even twice a week regulars may not have seen a category
page with the Sunday morning program header and detail layout.

After the next (3rd) round of changes, the "prior layout" page might
contain two entries and two (sets?) of links in reverse chronological
order.

-------------------
Prior Examples of Pricelessware 2004

This page contains select samples from prior iterations of
Pricelessware 2004 on Pricelessware.Org.

NOTE - Program links and other data may have changed.

NOTE - Do NOT use navigation links from and within prior version
pages. Please use Back or Exit to leave each historic page.

xx Aug (Pricelessware 2004 on Pricelessware.Org)
Changed this and that in the layout.
[2004 Home]

9 Aug 2004
Revised layout of program header and detail on category pages:
enlarged title and author font; moved version and date to detail;
changed red download links to ....

[Internet link, 9 Aug]


8 Aug 2004
First release of completely revised Pricelessware.org site.

[2004 first page link, 8 Aug]
[Alphabetic link, 8 Aug]
[Internet link, 8 Aug]

--------------------

The idea is to keep this simple. If archiving all ~20 pages is easier
for now....

Once again, thanks to all who have contributed to the new site,
including all who contributed to the content.

BillR

 

[BillR]

I thought maybe my ISP's server didn't pick up an announcement post.
Cox, which I use at home can be flaky at times. Qwest, which I use in my
office can be downright horrible. As I'm looking at it now, the Qwest
server is missing about half of this thread (including the post I made
yesterday) and I can see several other threads which are missing the
original posts.

Verizon isn't perfect but better than that. Google Groups has its own
problem including the number of "no archive" posts.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

(e-mail address removed) (BillR) wrote in

Verizon isn't perfect but better than that. Google Groups has its
own problem including the number of "no archive" posts.

<http://news.individual.net/> offers a very very good free Usenet
account; their server carries only text groups and has great
completion.

As for Google, their Groups2 beta has 'no archive' posts and IMO is
easier for reading recent posts than their standard interface to the
archives.
<http://groups-beta.google.com/groups/search?q=alt.comp.freeware>

 

[Garrett]

BillR wrote:

[snip]

Alphabetical order is good for the subcategories because many of the
names were obviously selected with that in mind. I'm just suggesting
newspaper style columns for them.

We'll talk more on this soon. I'm a little burned out right now after
spending all this time on the background programming. Going to take a
few days to relax and maybe check out some freeware that I've seen
floating through this group. :-(

[snip]

-Garrett

 

[Eric]

How did BillR know about updates to your site? I don't recall seeing any
requests posted to the group as to how the site should be presented.

Because, as you know, everyone is against you, you paranoid freak. How do
you think he knows??? Checked the site perhaps???



Eric

 

[Mark Warner]

Because, as you know, everyone is against you, you paranoid freak.
How do you think he knows??? Checked the site perhaps???

LOL! This is close to what I had in mind when I responded, but I was
suffering from a tact attack at the time.

 

[Ben Cooper]

Because, as you know, everyone is against you, you paranoid freak.
How do you think he knows??? Checked the site perhaps???

Just as I suspected! *Everyone* is against me!