Ping: Anna -- was: Dual Removable Drives as Backup Solution

  • Thread starter Thread starter David
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David

Anna,

Thank you, (and everyone else!), for all your insights on my question.
(I was the OP).

Anna, with all the many of these that you have installed, would you be able
to give recommendations re rack and caddy brands and model numbers that
have worked best for you? In fact, on HDs as well? (I really don't know
whether my question is appropriate here or not.)

And as a side issue, do you (or anyone) know whether Dell permits one to
specify brands and model numbers? I suspect that is probably a dumb
question...

Thanks again!
David
 
David said:
Anna,

Thank you, (and everyone else!), for all your insights on my question.
(I was the OP).

Anna, with all the many of these that you have installed, would you be
able
to give recommendations re rack and caddy brands and model numbers that
have worked best for you? In fact, on HDs as well? (I really don't know
whether my question is appropriate here or not.)

And as a side issue, do you (or anyone) know whether Dell permits one to
specify brands and model numbers? I suspect that is probably a dumb
question...

Thanks again!
David
Click to expand...


David:
I did reply to your same inquiry on May 30. I'll just repeat what I stated
then...

As I previously mentioned, over the years we've worked with a wide variety
of these mobile racks (removable hard drive enclosures) including
all-aluminum, plastic/aluminum, and all-plastic models - representing a
fairly wide range of prices - from about $10 to $80. Truth to tell, we would
be hard-pressed to tell the difference among them, in terms of performance
or durability. By & large they all seem to work.

Many users feel more comfortable using all-aluminum models. While they're
generally somewhat more expensive than the plastic models, the additional
cost is not particularly onerous.

Do a Google search for "mobile racks" and "removable hard drives" and you'll
be pointed to many online vendors carrying various makes & models, e.g.,
Kingwin, Vantec, Lian-Li, etc.

In many cases additional removable trays can be purchased for the mobile
rack, however, frequently the cost of these trays (if they are available)
are such that it's more economical in the long run to purchase the mobile
rack including its removable tray rather than to purchase only the removable
tray itself.

Some of these mobile racks come equipped with LCD temperature displays.
Frankly, we never look for models with those devices. The limited experience
we had with them was negative in the sense that they were prone to give
false readings and frequently failed. In general, we never found them
particularly useful and of course they add to the cost of the rack.

Virtually all of the mobile racks include a fan and some sort of on-off
keylock switch. Lately we've been working with the Athena Power MR-125
mobile rack for our SATA hard drives - see
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817123301. It's an
all-plastic device with an unusually large fan (for a mobile rack) and costs
only about $24 incl. shipping from newegg. I believe Athena also makes
mobile racks for PATA HDs as well - see http://www.athenapower.com/.

As far as HDs, I don't have any particular recommendation of one brand over
another one. I have noticed a lot of negative comments in various newsgroups
over the past few months re Maxtor drives, but I really can't say that I've
found those drives more defect prone than any other HD.

I'm not sure I understand your question re Dell. Are you planning to order
mobile racks from Dell? I wasn't aware Dell carried them as an accessory
although I do recall some months ago Dell announced they would be producing
some desktop PCs with removable HDs but I don't know if they ever did market
them.
Anna
 
David:
I did reply to your same inquiry on May 30. I'll just repeat what I stated
then...

As I previously mentioned, over the years we've worked with a wide variety
of these mobile racks (removable hard drive enclosures) including
all-aluminum, plastic/aluminum, and all-plastic models - representing a
fairly wide range of prices - from about $10 to $80. Truth to tell, we would
be hard-pressed to tell the difference among them, in terms of performance
or durability. By & large they all seem to work.

Many users feel more comfortable using all-aluminum models. While they're
generally somewhat more expensive than the plastic models, the additional
cost is not particularly onerous.

Do a Google search for "mobile racks" and "removable hard drives" and you'll
be pointed to many online vendors carrying various makes & models, e.g.,
Kingwin, Vantec, Lian-Li, etc.

In many cases additional removable trays can be purchased for the mobile
rack, however, frequently the cost of these trays (if they are available)
are such that it's more economical in the long run to purchase the mobile
rack including its removable tray rather than to purchase only the removable
tray itself.

Some of these mobile racks come equipped with LCD temperature displays.
Frankly, we never look for models with those devices. The limited experience
we had with them was negative in the sense that they were prone to give
false readings and frequently failed. In general, we never found them
particularly useful and of course they add to the cost of the rack.

Virtually all of the mobile racks include a fan and some sort of on-off
keylock switch. Lately we've been working with the Athena Power MR-125
mobile rack for our SATA hard drives - see
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817123301. It's an
all-plastic device with an unusually large fan (for a mobile rack) and costs
only about $24 incl. shipping from newegg. I believe Athena also makes
mobile racks for PATA HDs as well - see http://www.athenapower.com/.

As far as HDs, I don't have any particular recommendation of one brand over
another one. I have noticed a lot of negative comments in various newsgroups
over the past few months re Maxtor drives, but I really can't say that I've
found those drives more defect prone than any other HD.

I'm not sure I understand your question re Dell. Are you planning to order
mobile racks from Dell? I wasn't aware Dell carried them as an accessory
although I do recall some months ago Dell announced they would be producing
some desktop PCs with removable HDs but I don't know if they ever did market
them.
Anna
Click to expand...
Hi Anna,
Thank you very much for your (as usual) comprehensive reply. And apologies
for missing your first one. I have been embarrassed, and caused others
inconvenience, several times lately now because I have not seen replies
that others have made.

It is now time for a serious discussion with my ISP regarding their
newsserver!

Re Dell, I wasn't very clear was I? What I meant was, if I order a PC from
Dell with dual removables, would I be able to request specific makes and
models? My intuition is that probably not, but just wondered if you or
anyone had had any such experience. Anyway, I suppose that Dell probably
tries to avoid second-tier OEM components as a practice, because they would
lose in the long run.

Thanks again,
David
 
David said:
It is now time for a serious discussion with my ISP regarding their
newsserver!
Click to expand...

Why not use msnews.microsoft.com for the microsoft.public.* newsgroups?
It's free and doesn't require you to logon.
 
Frank Saunders said:
Why not use msnews.microsoft.com for the microsoft.public.* newsgroups?
It's free and doesn't require you to logon.
Click to expand...


The reason *I* don't use the MS news server is because the retention
time is too short. The posts seem to be flushed after one or two days.
Giganews, on the other hand, holds them for at least a month.

*TimDaniels*
 
David said:
.......if I order a PC from
Dell with dual removables, would I be able to request specific makes and
models? My intuition is that probably not, but just wondered if you or
anyone had had any such experience. Anyway, I suppose that Dell probably
tries to avoid second-tier OEM components as a practice, because they would
lose in the long run.
Click to expand...


I don't think Dell sells removable drive trays. Those are either installed
by the end user or by consultants (as Anna does) in available 5 1/2"
expansion bays. For what it's worth, I've used a rack and several trays
made by Kingwin, and in almost 3 years of use, I haven't had any problems.

*TimDaniels*
 
David said:
Hi Anna, (SNIP)

Re Dell, I wasn't very clear was I? What I meant was, if I order a PC
from
Dell with dual removables, would I be able to request specific makes and
models? My intuition is that probably not, but just wondered if you or
anyone had had any such experience. Anyway, I suppose that Dell probably
tries to avoid second-tier OEM components as a practice, because they
would
lose in the long run.

Thanks again,
David
Click to expand...

David:
I doubt if you would be able to order specific makes & models of removable
hard drives (the mobile racks that house the hard drives) from Dell,
however, obviously the best course of action would be to contact Dell to
discuss your requirements.

Assuming there's one or more reputable & competent personal computer
facilities in your area you might want to consider having a computer built
by that source to your specifications.
Anna
 
Timothy Daniels said:
The reason *I* don't use the MS news server is because the retention
time is too short. The posts seem to be flushed after one or two days.
Giganews, on the other hand, holds them for at least a month.

*TimDaniels*
Click to expand...

msnews.microsoft.com holds posts at least 60 days.
 
Anna said:
David:
I doubt if you would be able to order specific makes & models of
removable hard drives (the mobile racks that house the hard drives)
from Dell, however, obviously the best course of action would be to
contact Dell to discuss your requirements.

Assuming there's one or more reputable & competent personal computer
facilities in your area you might want to consider having a computer
built by that source to your specifications.
Click to expand...


Alternatively, if he wants to buy from Dell, and wants one or more mobile
racks, he can always buy the racks and drives to fit them after getting the
computer from Dell, and either install them himself or pay a local shop to
do it for him.
 
Frank Saunders said:
msnews.microsoft.com holds posts at least 60 days.
Click to expand...


That may be the policy, but that has not been my observation.
With Giganews, you can post to a thread as an individual post
and the context is preserved in the thread. With Microsoft's
news server, you have to keep a running history of the thread
in each post - and each post gets longer and longer.

*TimDaniels*
 
Timothy Daniels said:
That may be the policy, but that has not been my observation.
With Giganews, you can post to a thread as an individual post
and the context is preserved in the thread. With Microsoft's
news server, you have to keep a running history of the thread
in each post - and each post gets longer and longer.
Click to expand...


It gets more complex. Checking a hunch, I found that my
newsreader (Outlook Express) is set to download only 500
headers at a time. In high volume NGs such as this one, that
may account for the apparent short retention time. On the other
hand, Giganews claims 941,573 headers currently in this NG
on its server, and Microsoft claims a little over 34,000 on its
server. If that is a true measure of retention, Giganews' server
holds 30 times more postings than Microsoft.

*TimDaniels*
 
Timothy said:
It gets more complex. Checking a hunch, I found that my
newsreader (Outlook Express) is set to download only 500
headers at a time. In high volume NGs such as this one, that
may account for the apparent short retention time. On the other
hand, Giganews claims 941,573 headers currently in this NG
on its server, and Microsoft claims a little over 34,000 on its
server. If that is a true measure of retention, Giganews' server
holds 30 times more postings than Microsoft.
Click to expand...


Here's my view: I don't know who retains more and I don't care. This
newsgroup typically gets 500-1000 messages a day, so 34,000 messages is
something between a month and two months of retention. Even one month is
*way* more than I need retained. If I want read messages retained, I retain
them locally in Outlook Express, but generally I don't even do that; I have
Outlook Express set to display unread messages only, and every week or so I
delete all the old stuff. If I had to look at read messages as well as
unread ones, it would take me at least twice as long to check the
newsgroups.

And should I ever want to go back and look at older messages, Googlegroups
is an excellent easy-to-use tool for finding what I want.
 
Timothy Daniels said:
I don't think Dell sells removable drive trays. Those are either
installed
by the end user or by consultants (as Anna does) in available 5 1/2"
expansion bays. For what it's worth, I've used a rack and several
trays
made by Kingwin, and in almost 3 years of use, I haven't had any
problems.

*TimDaniels*
Click to expand...

I have used the Kingwin KF-32 series and while in general,
I like them, I have run into problems with the fans -- the ones
in my KF-32 series are bushing instead of ball bearing fans
and they have failed (lost two within a couple of months).
I have been thinking of trying their KF-2x series, but from
some comments I have seen, the small fan at the back is
always on - even if the drive is removed since the key switch
only switches the 5 volts according to some (although their
ads say they are ball bearing fans). Another complaint on
the ones that have fans in the bottom of the tray is that if
it is next to another drive (like a CD or DVD), the air flow
is blocked for the bottom fan. Not a problem in my
config, but others have commented on that. According to
Kingwin, you can mix the KF-2x trays -- 21 has one fan at
the back of the drawer, 22 has one at the back and one in
the front of the removable tray and the 23 has 1 in back and
two in the front of the tray (all little fans).

mikey
 
Timothy Daniels said:
It gets more complex. Checking a hunch, I found that my
newsreader (Outlook Express) is set to download only 500
headers at a time. In high volume NGs such as this one, that
may account for the apparent short retention time. On the other
hand, Giganews claims 941,573 headers currently in this NG
on its server, and Microsoft claims a little over 34,000 on its
server. If that is a true measure of retention, Giganews' server
holds 30 times more postings than Microsoft.

*TimDaniels*
Click to expand...

You can set OE to download up to 1000 messages at a time or you can uncheck
the option and download everything. I don't know how much "everything" is
because I just deleted anything more than 25 days old.
 
Mike Fields said:
I have used the Kingwin KF-32 series and while in general,
I like them, I have run into problems with the fans -- the ones
in my KF-32 series are bushing instead of ball bearing fans
and they have failed (lost two within a couple of months).
I have been thinking of trying their KF-2x series, but from
some comments I have seen, the small fan at the back is
always on - even if the drive is removed since the key switch
only switches the 5 volts according to some (although their
ads say they are ball bearing fans). Another complaint on
the ones that have fans in the bottom of the tray is that if
it is next to another drive (like a CD or DVD), the air flow
is blocked for the bottom fan. Not a problem in my
config, but others have commented on that. According to
Kingwin, you can mix the KF-2x trays -- 21 has one fan at
the back of the drawer, 22 has one at the back and one in
the front of the removable tray and the 23 has 1 in back and
two in the front of the tray (all little fans).
Click to expand...


The rack/tray assembly that I use has the fan at the botom
of the tray, and it exhausts air to the REAR, NOT downward.
Here is the description of the product:
http://kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=25&ID=136
The fan is enclosed with a blue plastic shroud (seen in the
photo), and the air exhausts radially off the fan to the back of
the case. The air flow does not at all impinge on any device
that may be below it. And it works very well to draw air around
the HD to keep it cool, and all that's audible is the air entering
the front grill and not the blades of the fan - a major point of
interest to me since I find the whine of little fans very irritating.

*TimDaniels*
 
Mike Fields said:
...but from some comments I have seen, the small fan at the
back is always on - even if the drive is removed since the
key switch only switches the 5 volts according to some
Click to expand...


The one Kingwin rack/tray the *I* have is certainly not wired
that way. When the power switch is in the OFF position, the
fan does not run. Why not call Kingwin and ask them rather
than rely on comments from "some" and "some comments that
you've seen"?

(although their ads say they are ball bearing fans).
Click to expand...


The one I got must have been the one in the ad because
the fan just runs and runs, and it runs quietly.

*TimDaniels*
 
Timothy Daniels said:
The rack/tray assembly that I use has the fan at the botom
of the tray, and it exhausts air to the REAR, NOT downward.
Here is the description of the product:
http://kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=25&ID=136
The fan is enclosed with a blue plastic shroud (seen in the
photo), and the air exhausts radially off the fan to the back of
the case. The air flow does not at all impinge on any device
that may be below it. And it works very well to draw air around
the HD to keep it cool, and all that's audible is the air entering
the front grill and not the blades of the fan - a major point of
interest to me since I find the whine of little fans very irritating.

*TimDaniels*
Click to expand...

The KF-32 also has that design (mostly), however, a number
of people have run into problems according to them with the
air getting blocked on the bottom. If you let the ribbon cable
hang down or have stuff behind it, that can block it. As I
said for mine, that is not an issue since I built an external case
that sits on top of the computer (ran out of disk drawers inside).
The bigger problem I see with the 32 is the fact they used
the bushing style fans - out of 3 cases, I have lost 2 fans in
less than a year. Ball bearing fans last a lot longer ... usually.
I also find the whine of little fans irritating ... but not nearly
as irritating as a sleeve style bearing fan with the bearing
going out ;-) (or worse an over heated drive)
My case is getting a bit full -- 3 DVD/CD-ROM drives,
4 hard drives internally and 1 external case for another
hard drive. You start playing with digital video, digital
photography and backing up other systems in the house
and pretty soon you are talking real disk space. I still have
my old 8" double sided/double density floppies that hold
1 point 2 megabytes !!! (although not hooked up to anything).

mikey
 
Timothy Daniels said:
The one Kingwin rack/tray the *I* have is certainly not wired
that way. When the power switch is in the OFF position, the
fan does not run. Why not call Kingwin and ask them rather
than rely on comments from "some" and "some comments that
you've seen"?
Click to expand...

While I have not called them, I did spend quite a bit of time
looking around their website for additional information. The
comment I made was from someone who did have one and
said that was the way his worked. It was from the feedback
on the newegg site from a user on the KF-22-IPF who said
only the 5v was switched and the 12v was always on which
powered the fan. As I indicated elsewhere, my concern
was the fact I have had 2 out of 3 of the 50mm * 10mm
bottom fans fail because they were the sleeve bearing type.
Having a fan powered all the time even without a drive in the
cage is a consideration if that is the case. Since I don't have
that cage, I indicated that I had seen that concern (about
not switching the 12 volt). If someone wants that cage, it
would be worth checking it out.

mikey
 
Mike Fields said:
I still have my old 8" double sided/double density floppies that hold
1 point 2 megabytes !!! (although not hooked up to anything).
Click to expand...


I wonder if Vista will have drivers for it? :-) Hang on to it and the
OS that runs it. A few months ago I had to resurrect some old listings
that were on 8" floppies, and I was lucky enough to have a friend with
an old PC with an 8" floppy drive sitting in his garage. Otherwise, I
was SOL. Those are *hard* to find nowadays.

*TimDaniels*
 
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