PING Anna: cloning question

[Kerry Brown]

Thanks everybody for the amazing dialogue. It went a bit beyond the scope
of
my question it's true; but how often does that happen so as to enlighten
the
questioner? -- it's more often that less than enough is provided.

Enlightenment is learning what you didn't know you need to know. I really
needed to know all about imaging and cloning and I am saving this thread
to
study from.

Your welcome. I learned something myself from the discussion.

Kerry

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Tim & Kerry:
Using either Symantec's Norton Ghost 2003 or
Acronis True Image 8, we've cloned internal HDs
to at least a dozen different USBEHDs, then removed
the EHD from its enclosure (where it was possible to
do so), and installed the drive in the computer as the
bootable drive, and it booted with no problem.
Under those circumstances, the system treats the
cloned drive as an ordinary bootable internal drive.

Tim's reference to using SATA drives as external drives
is surely the wave of the future, since they have a major
advantage over a USBEHD in that even as an external
device, the system will treat the SATA drive as an internal
drive. Thus, a cloned *external* SATA drive can be
bootable whereas as we know that's a decided limitation
of a USBEHD - it's not bootable. At this moment we're
working with simple SATA I/O adapters containing a data
port and a power port. We've been using these devices
with a bare external SATA drive and have encountered
no problems with it in terms of the drive being the recipient
of the clone and the subsequent ability to boot to that drive.

There are already SATA enclosures (containing a built-in
power supply) on the market and surely more to come as
we move more & more to SATA drives. Note also that
many of the newer motherboards are now coming equipped
with eSATA (external) connectors. I haven't yet worked with
those connectors in order to determine whether a cloned
SATA drive connected to the eSATA port would be bootable.

I hadn't heard about the motherboards with external
SATA connectors. It would appear that the day of the
USB and FireWire external hard drives are numbered.
For people without extra bays to fit racks for removable
SATA hard drives, external SATA drive enclosures
would be a great convenience. As you gain experience
with external SATA drives, Anna, I'm sure a posting by
you in the NG "comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage" would
be of great interest. And the same for you, too, Kerry.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Anna]

I hadn't heard about the motherboards with external
SATA connectors. It would appear that the day of the
USB and FireWire external hard drives are numbered.
For people without extra bays to fit racks for removable
SATA hard drives, external SATA drive enclosures
would be a great convenience. As you gain experience
with external SATA drives, Anna, I'm sure a posting by
you in the NG "comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage" would
be of great interest. And the same for you, too, Kerry.

*TimDaniels*

Tim:
Just a minor addendum...
From what I've come across so far in some of the newer motherboards is that
the eSATA (external) port is available, but there's no power connector
available for the SATA drive which will be residing *outside* the case. Of
course it would be simple enough to run a power cable from the computer's
power supply to the SATA drive's power connector, but of course that's an
awkward workaround. It would seem simple enough for the eSATA connector
design to include an adjacent power connector which would obviate the need
to run a separate power cable between the drive and the computer's PS. And
there's still a lingering question in my mind as to whether the eSATA
connector will permit a boot from that port. There has been some indication
that it may serve *only* as a data port without the BIOS capability of
booting a device connected to that port. I (and I'm sure others) certainly
hope that's *not* the case. I can't think of any overriding technical reason
which would not permit a boot from a SATA drive connected to such a port.

You and Kerry may be interested in that simple SATA I/O bracket device that
we've been using. Its external connections are the normal SATA connectors -
a data connector and a 15-pin power connector. Internally there's the
corresponding data connector for a connection to the motherboard's SATA
connector and a Molex connector for a connection to the computer's PS. A
very simple device which we can use to good advantage. By connecting a SATA
drive (we've been doing it with bare drives) to the device, we now have an
*external* drive which is bootable since the system will be treating the
drive as a normal internal one. It's a capability that, as you know, has
eluded us (in XP) with USB/Firewire EHDs. It's a real plus, no doubt about
it. BTW, the device we've been using is the SATAPOWPLAT1 manufactured (I
think) by StarTech.com. I believe it's generally available retail for about
$15.00 or so. Now if we can only find a SATA power cable that has the 15-pin
connectors on *each* end of the cable!
Anna

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Tim:
Just a minor addendum...
From what I've come across so far in some of the newer motherboards is that
the eSATA (external) port is available, but there's no power connector
available for the SATA drive which will be residing *outside* the case. Of
course it would be simple enough to run a power cable from the computer's
power supply to the SATA drive's power connector, but of course that's an
awkward workaround. It would seem simple enough for the eSATA connector
design to include an adjacent power connector which would obviate the need
to run a separate power cable between the drive and the computer's PS. And
there's still a lingering question in my mind as to whether the eSATA
connector will permit a boot from that port. There has been some indication
that it may serve *only* as a data port without the BIOS capability of
booting a device connected to that port. I (and I'm sure others) certainly
hope that's *not* the case. I can't think of any overriding technical reason
which would not permit a boot from a SATA drive connected to such a port.

Kingwin makes an external SATA drive enclosure that has a built-in
fan and power supply:
http://www.kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=52&ID=246 .
That would remove the need for a power cable from the motherboard.
Of course, there would be the need for access to 120v.a.c power.

You and Kerry may be interested in that simple SATA I/O bracket device that
we've been using. Its external connections are the normal SATA connectors -
a data connector and a 15-pin power connector. Internally there's the
corresponding data connector for a connection to the motherboard's SATA
connector and a Molex connector for a connection to the computer's PS. A
very simple device which we can use to good advantage. By connecting a SATA
drive (we've been doing it with bare drives) to the device, we now have an
*external* drive which is bootable since the system will be treating the
drive as a normal internal one. It's a capability that, as you know, has
eluded us (in XP) with USB/Firewire EHDs. It's a real plus, no doubt about
it. BTW, the device we've been using is the SATAPOWPLAT1 manufactured (I
think) by StarTech.com. I believe it's generally available retail for about
$15.00 or so. Now if we can only find a SATA power cable that has the 15-pin
connectors on *each* end of the cable!
Anna

Yes, I see it at StarTech's website:
http://www.startech.com/ststore/itemdetail.cfm?ProductID=SATAPOWPLAT1&mt=p .
There also SATA data port sockets:
One socket -
http://www.startech.com/ststore/itemdetail.cfm?ProductID=SATAPLATE1&mt=p ,
and 2-socket -
http://www.startech.com/ststore/itemdetail.cfm?ProductID=SATAPLATE2&mt=p ,

Cute stuff! Have you thought of using the data sockets with a
Kingwin external enclosure?

*TimDaiels*

 

[Anna]

(The thread has evolved into a discussion of the use of SATA hard drives as
external devices. Apologies to the OP, but I trust his or her query has been
previously answered and whatever problem he or she had has been resolved.)
Anna

Kingwin makes an external SATA drive enclosure that has a built-in
fan and power supply:
http://www.kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=52&ID=246 .
That would remove the need for a power cable from the motherboard.
Of course, there would be the need for access to 120v.a.c power.

Yes, I'm aware of that enclosure and others like it. But that's the problem
(at least for us). We would much prefer to avoid using a separate PS rather
than using the computer's PS. We don't want the bulk (nor the add'l expense
involved) of a separate PS when the computer's PS is more than adequate for
the purpose. What would be ideal for us (and I guess most users) is a
simple, lightweight enclosure to house the SATA drive with data & power
connectors. But to be sure, the Kingwin & similar enclosures are certainly a
viable solution.

Yes, I see it at StarTech's website:
http://www.startech.com/ststore/itemdetail.cfm?ProductID=SATAPOWPLAT1&mt=p
.
There also SATA data port sockets:
One socket -
http://www.startech.com/ststore/itemdetail.cfm?ProductID=SATAPLATE1&mt=p ,
and 2-socket -
http://www.startech.com/ststore/itemdetail.cfm?ProductID=SATAPLATE2&mt=p ,

Cute stuff! Have you thought of using the data sockets with a
Kingwin external enclosure?
*TimDaiels*

Thanks for the links. I knew it was a StarTech device (the SATAPOWPLAT1 one)
we've been using since that was the name on the bag it came in. The latter
two devices are lacking power connectors and we much prefer the combo unit
which has both data *and* power ports.

If you come across a source for the SATA power cable we're looking for,
i.e., one that has a 15-pin connector on each end, I'd certainly appreciate
hearing about it.
Anna

 

[Pflueger]

(The thread has evolved into a discussion of the use of SATA hard drives as
external devices. Apologies to the OP, but I trust his or her query has been
previously answered and whatever problem he or she had has been resolved.)
Anna

Are you kidding? You are giving me a course in the state-of-the-art.
I have already figured out how I am going to tear into my USBEHD enclosure


Thanks, Anna