physical drive letters stepping on mapped drives. Why?

C

Cameramonkey

Anyone know why after 16 years and (6 major versions), windows STILL cant
tell that a drive has been mapped so that it doesnt re-use a drive letter for
things like card readers?

Have I been missing something all these years? I am getting tired of having
to manually configure a card reader in drive manager to not use F: because a
network share is already mapped to that letter.

anyone? (or has this been fixed in Vista and I havent run across it yet?)

And yes, I know that one fix is to map network drives from the bottom up,
but thats not really a fix. Thats just avoiding the problem.
 
M

Monitor

Cameramonkey said:
Anyone know why after 16 years and (6 major versions), windows STILL cant
tell that a drive has been mapped so that it doesnt re-use a drive letter for
things like card readers?

Have I been missing something all these years? I am getting tired of having
to manually configure a card reader in drive manager to not use F: because a
network share is already mapped to that letter.

anyone? (or has this been fixed in Vista and I havent run across it yet?)

And yes, I know that one fix is to map network drives from the bottom up,
but thats not really a fix. Thats just avoiding the problem.
Click to expand...

Anyone know why people still map networked drives to the low letters of the
alphabet, after more than 10 years of USB drives that will by design occupy
the first free drive letter? Maybe Microsoft should make the letters below
L: unavailable to mapped shares in order to drive this point home and stop
the moaning and bitching.
 
P

Pegasus \(MVP\)

Cameramonkey said:
Anyone know why after 16 years and (6 major versions), windows STILL cant
tell that a drive has been mapped so that it doesnt re-use a drive letter
for
things like card readers?

Have I been missing something all these years? I am getting tired of
having
to manually configure a card reader in drive manager to not use F: because
a
network share is already mapped to that letter.

anyone? (or has this been fixed in Vista and I havent run across it yet?)

And yes, I know that one fix is to map network drives from the bottom up,
but thats not really a fix. Thats just avoiding the problem.
Click to expand...

Assignment of USB drive letters happens before assignment of shared drive
letters, so this behaviour is to be expected. A reversal of this strategy
would cause the opposite problem with USB drive letters. Have a look at
USBDLM: http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbdlm_e.html.
 
C

Cameramonkey

Monitor: mapping from the bottom up doesnt fix the problem, it works around
it. Its the equivalent to : "doctor, it hurts when i do THIS." "then dont do
that.".

Pegasus: then how do you explain the behavior of a system that has been up
for days/weeks and you plug in a new device? the new device is stepping on a
drive that has been in place the entire time and what technically there
first. So its not always about processing physical drive letters first.
 
P

Pegasus \(MVP\)

Cameramonkey said:
Monitor: mapping from the bottom up doesnt fix the problem, it works
around
it. Its the equivalent to : "doctor, it hurts when i do THIS." "then dont
do
that.".

Pegasus: then how do you explain the behavior of a system that has been up
for days/weeks and you plug in a new device? the new device is stepping on
a
drive that has been in place the entire time and what technically there
first. So its not always about processing physical drive letters first.
Click to expand...

A new USB device will never grab the drive letter of an active mapped drive.
It will look for the first unoccupied drive letter.
 
T

Tim Slattery

Pegasus \(MVP\) said:
A new USB device will never grab the drive letter of an active mapped drive.
It will look for the first unoccupied drive letter.
Click to expand...

No it won't! Cameramonkey is right, if you plug in a USB drive, it
will be assigned the first letter after the hard and optical drives,
even if a network share is mapped there. MS got this screwed up and
they've never fixed it in XP. I think it works right in Vista, can
anybody confirm this?
 
P

Pegasus \(MVP\)

Tim Slattery said:
No it won't! Cameramonkey is right, if you plug in a USB drive, it
will be assigned the first letter after the hard and optical drives,
even if a network share is mapped there. MS got this screwed up and
they've never fixed it in XP. I think it works right in Vista, can
anybody confirm this?

--
Tim Slattery
MS MVP(Shell/User)
(e-mail address removed)
http://members.cox.net/slatteryt
Click to expand...

I read what you write but I am unable to reconcile it with what I see on my
WinXP SP3 machine. Here is a list of my current drive assignments:
Drive Type State Label F/S Size Free Serial
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
C: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
D: Fixed ready CH-DATA FAT32 21471 15379 6AC29F96
E: Fixed ready CH-Drivers NTFS 21854 13850 39913A98
F: CDROM not ready
G: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
H: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
I: Network ready \\pegasus\c$ NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74

After compiling the above list, I connected a brand new USB device.
According to your claim, it should grab drive letter I:. Here is the result:
Drive Type State Label F/S Size Free Serial
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
C: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
D: Fixed ready CH-DATA FAT32 21471 15379 6AC29F96
E: Fixed ready CH-Drivers NTFS 21854 13850 39913A98
F: CDROM not ready
G: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
H: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
I: Network ready \\pegasus\c$ NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
J: Removable ready BIG USB FAT32 1004 955 F0E1D960

Can you suggest a test that demonstrates the phenomenon you describe?
 
S

smlunatick

I read what you write but I am unable to reconcile it with what I see on my
WinXP SP3 machine. Here is a list of my current drive assignments:
Drive  Type       State      Label          F/S      Size    Free  Serial
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
C:     Fixed      ready      CH-SYSTEM      NTFS    16109    8631  BFCEEC74
D:     Fixed      ready      CH-DATA        FAT32  21471   15379  6AC29F96
E:     Fixed      ready      CH-Drivers     NTFS    21854   13850  39913A98
F:     CDROM      not ready
G:     Fixed      ready      CH-SYSTEM      NTFS    16109    8631  BFCEEC74
H:     Fixed      ready      CH-SYSTEM      NTFS    16109    8631  BFCEEC74
I:     Network    ready      \\pegasus\c$   NTFS    16109    8631  BFCEEC74

After compiling the above list, I connected a brand new USB device.
According to your claim, it should grab drive letter I:. Here is the result:
Drive  Type       State      Label          F/S      Size    Free  Serial
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
C:     Fixed      ready      CH-SYSTEM      NTFS    16109    8631  BFCEEC74
D:     Fixed      ready      CH-DATA        FAT32  21471   15379  6AC29F96
E:     Fixed      ready      CH-Drivers     NTFS    21854   13850  39913A98
F:     CDROM      not ready
G:     Fixed      ready      CH-SYSTEM      NTFS    16109    8631  BFCEEC74
H:     Fixed      ready      CH-SYSTEM      NTFS    16109    8631  BFCEEC74
I:     Network    ready      \\pegasus\c$   NTFS    16109    8631  BFCEEC74
J:     Removable  ready      BIG USB        FAT32   1004     955  F0E1D960

Can you suggest a test that demonstrates the phenomenon you describe?
Click to expand...

Remove your J: drive and then shutdown the XP. Reboot the XP with the
J: drive connected. It should be detected before the mappings occur
and could get I: instead.
 
B

Bob I

Pegasus said:
I read what you write but I am unable to reconcile it with what I see on my
WinXP SP3 machine. Here is a list of my current drive assignments:
Drive Type State Label F/S Size Free Serial
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
C: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
D: Fixed ready CH-DATA FAT32 21471 15379 6AC29F96
E: Fixed ready CH-Drivers NTFS 21854 13850 39913A98
F: CDROM not ready
G: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
H: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
I: Network ready \\pegasus\c$ NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74

After compiling the above list, I connected a brand new USB device.
According to your claim, it should grab drive letter I:. Here is the result:
Drive Type State Label F/S Size Free Serial
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
C: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
D: Fixed ready CH-DATA FAT32 21471 15379 6AC29F96
E: Fixed ready CH-Drivers NTFS 21854 13850 39913A98
F: CDROM not ready
G: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
H: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
I: Network ready \\pegasus\c$ NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
J: Removable ready BIG USB FAT32 1004 955 F0E1D960

Can you suggest a test that demonstrates the phenomenon you describe?
Click to expand...

I believe the difference came with SP3. Sp2 exhibits the old
disappearing drive behavior.
 
P

Pegasus \(MVP\)

I read what you write but I am unable to reconcile it with what I see on
my
WinXP SP3 machine. Here is a list of my current drive assignments:
Drive Type State Label F/S Size Free Serial
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
C: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
D: Fixed ready CH-DATA FAT32 21471 15379 6AC29F96
E: Fixed ready CH-Drivers NTFS 21854 13850 39913A98
F: CDROM not ready
G: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
H: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
I: Network ready \\pegasus\c$ NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74

After compiling the above list, I connected a brand new USB device.
According to your claim, it should grab drive letter I:. Here is the
result:
Drive Type State Label F/S Size Free Serial
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
C: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
D: Fixed ready CH-DATA FAT32 21471 15379 6AC29F96
E: Fixed ready CH-Drivers NTFS 21854 13850 39913A98
F: CDROM not ready
G: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
H: Fixed ready CH-SYSTEM NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
I: Network ready \\pegasus\c$ NTFS 16109 8631 BFCEEC74
J: Removable ready BIG USB FAT32 1004 955 F0E1D960

Can you suggest a test that demonstrates the phenomenon you describe?
Click to expand...

Remove your J: drive and then shutdown the XP. Reboot the XP with the
J: drive connected. It should be detected before the mappings occur
and could get I: instead.

==========

Yes, I know it will, because USB drive letter assignments happen before
network assignments. This is what I said before. Tim Slattery claimed
something quite different (and perhaps the OP too): "If you plug in a USB
drive, it will be assigned the first letter after the hard and optical
drives, even if a network share is mapped there."
 
T

Tim Slattery

Pegasus \(MVP\) said:
Yes, I know it will, because USB drive letter assignments happen before
network assignments. This is what I said before. Tim Slattery claimed
something quite different (and perhaps the OP too): "If you plug in a USB
drive, it will be assigned the first letter after the hard and optical
drives, even if a network share is mapped there."
Click to expand...

My experience seems to be different than yours. I have a hard drive
partitioned into C: and D: and an optical drive that is E:. I also
have a number of mapped network drives. I've had to leave F: open,
because if I map a network share to F: it becomes unusable when I plug
a USB drive in. The USB drive gets the F: letter, and the mapped
network share disappears until I unplug the USB drive. Apparently this
behavior is not consistent but it does happen.
 
T

Tim Slattery

Bob I said:
I believe the difference came with SP3. Sp2 exhibits the old
disappearing drive behavior.
Click to expand...

Maybe so. My computer here at work is SP2, my employer has not seen
fit to deploy SP3.
 
P

Pegasus \(MVP\)

Tim Slattery said:
My experience seems to be different than yours. I have a hard drive
partitioned into C: and D: and an optical drive that is E:. I also
have a number of mapped network drives. I've had to leave F: open,
because if I map a network share to F: it becomes unusable when I plug
a USB drive in. The USB drive gets the F: letter, and the mapped
network share disappears until I unplug the USB drive. Apparently this
behavior is not consistent but it does happen.
Click to expand...

I'd love to hear about a step-by-step procedure that would let me recreate
and confirm this event on my own machines. Did you try my own process, the
one I posted previously?
 
J

John Wunderlich

Maybe so. My computer here at work is SP2, my employer has not seen
fit to deploy SP3.
Click to expand...

This has been documented by Microsoft and a Hot-Fix is available for
SP2. The article also says "we recommend that you wait for the next
software update that contains this hotfix." -- I assume this refers to
SP3.

See the following:

"New drive or mapped network drive not available in Windows Explorer"
<http://support.microsoft.com/kb/297694>

HTH,
John
 
U

Uwe Sieber

John said:
This has been documented by Microsoft and a Hot-Fix is available for
SP2. The article also says "we recommend that you wait for the next
software update that contains this hotfix." -- I assume this refers to
SP3.

See the following:

"New drive or mapped network drive not available in Windows Explorer"
<http://support.microsoft.com/kb/297694>
Click to expand...


Correct. What the SP3 did not fix is this scenario:
Letters C: + D: used for local drives, E: for an USB drive.
Remove the USB drive, create a network drive at E: and
reattach the the USB drive again. XP with SP3 will assign
E: anyway, the USB drive is 'hidden'. This is fixed in Vista.


Uwe
 
P

Pegasus \(MVP\)

Uwe Sieber said:
Correct. What the SP3 did not fix is this scenario:
Letters C: + D: used for local drives, E: for an USB drive.
Remove the USB drive, create a network drive at E: and
reattach the the USB drive again. XP with SP3 will assign
E: anyway, the USB drive is 'hidden'. This is fixed in Vista.

Uwe
Click to expand...

Good to see a precise and reproducible problem description! The USB drive
will, in fact, re-appear as soon as the network drive is disconnected (which
is, of course, pretty useless). Using the high letters of the alphabet for
networked drives will avoid the issue.
 

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