PerfectDisk vs Diskeeper vs PageDefrag

[Sarah Haff]

Hello Everybody,

I am evaluating hard disk defragmenting applications. Some of the one
I have seen are PerfectDisk, Diskeeper, and PageDefrag. I would like
hear the experiences (good/bad) that people have had with these
products. Seems like Diskeeper is one of the more popular products.

Which one would you recommend for use in enterprise setting (for
30,000+ computers).

Thanks,
Sarah

 

[Jimmy Andersson]

I'm currently using PerfectDisk 6.0 and I like it so far, installed it two
days ago...

Regards,
/Jimmy

 

[Voice of the Mysterons]

I'm currently using PerfectDisk 6.0 and I like it so far, installed it two
days ago...

Regards,
/Jimmy

Hmm... I tried PerfectDisk on laptops running Windows 2000 and Windows XP
Pro. It certainly seems to do a good job deframenting. However, both systems
I used it on had boot-up problems afterwards -- could not get into command
console on either and had to re-install the command console on both systems.
Whilst a problem with one might pass-by without too much worry, when it
happens on both machines, I get quite concerned.

 

[Jim Byrd]

Hi Sarah - I'm a strong proponent of PerfectDisk. I've used it for several
years, and it's consistently outperformed a number of others I tried during
that time including Diskeeper and SpeedDisk. I would particularly recommend
it in your large network situation. It is an "Enterprise-minded" design in
my view. Here are a couple of extracts from (an admittedly partisan and
self-serving) White Paper on their site that points up some of the
Admin-oriented aspects/contrasts with Diskeeper:
http://www.raxco.com/products/perfectdisk2k/whitepapers/defrag_tutorial.pdf
This and some of the other White Papers at that site are worth reading in
full. Note that I have no fiduciary relationship to Raxco and purchased my
copy of their v.4 software and subsequent upgrades.

"Enterprise Manageability

As more organizations move the entire enterprise to Windows 2000, Windows
Server 2003 or Windows XP, the manageability of applications across hundreds
or thousands of machines isincreasingly a problem. PerfectDisk eases
manageability and offers unparalleled flexibility to the system
administrator through its full integration with Microsoft's Active Directory
and its Group Policies. PerfectDisk can be deployed and launched from within
Active Directory. Through Group Policy integration, new users to a group can
automatically inherit PerfectDisk schedules,and system administrators can
toggle almost every PerfectDisk feature at the group or user level.

Diskeeper offers no Active Directory integration."


"Network Awareness
Enterprise defragmentation is the ability to schedule and run
defragmentation events anywhere in the network from anywhere in the network.

PerfectDisk can be scheduled over the network from both the workstation and
server licenses.

Diskeeper supports network scheduling only from a server license.



Schedule View/Cancel

An administrator will want to view and possibly modify defragmentation
schedules in consideration of other system tasks. The ability to quickly
access this information gives the administrator a quick response mechanism
to changing system requirements and the ability tobalance resources.

PerfectDisk supports a Scheduling Wizard that lets an administrator view or
cancel schedules on any machine in the network, from any machine in the
network. With the most recent release, schedules can also be modified."



--
Please respond in the same thread.
Regards, Jim Byrd, MS-MVP



In

 

[Dan Seur]

VotM - did you talk to PD about that? They indulge happily in
human-to-human support, and they're very good. They're like a terrier -
they get their teeth into a problem and don't let go.

(I second Jimmy's motion very strongly, after several years with
PerfectDisk, NT4 and W2k, several PD versions.)

 

[neo [mvp outlook]]

I like Jimmy just installed PerfectDisk 6.0 a few days ago on a Windows XP
(SP1) pro box. The only problem I have is when running a offline defrag of
the pagefile & MFT. XP doesn't like what it is trying to do and reboots.

 

[Michael Cecil]

I like Jimmy just installed PerfectDisk 6.0 a few days ago on a Windows XP
(SP1) pro box. The only problem I have is when running a offline defrag of
the pagefile & MFT. XP doesn't like what it is trying to do and reboots.

I've been happy with different versions of PerfectDisk since I first
heard about it. Never had any problems with it. I'd guess your drive
has some kind of error on it - have you tried doing a chkdsk /r on it?

I never much liked Diskeeper - it never really seemed to do a complete
job, plus it has some connection with those loony Scientologists.

No experience with either as enterprise products though.

Vopt seems okay but it feels much like a small hand-written program as
opposed to a professionally designed piece of software.

O&O Defrag is okay but the last version I tested still didn't
understand the prefetch files plus it is finicky about the way it is
installed and seemed to need reinstalling at odd times. Probably some
obscure registry entry or other file got deleted.

PerfectDisk seems like the best one currently. Only two features I'd
like added:
- the ability to click on the cluster map after analyzing the drive
and see what files are in a particular cluster.
- Secondly, it would be nice if the free space, slack space, cluster
tips, unused mft entries could be zeroed out (requiring a separate
pass probably.)

PageDefrag isn't really a stand-alone defragger. It just monitors the
status of several system files and lets you schedule the built-in
defragger to do an offline defrag. I think Winternals or Sysinternals
also has a program to add scheduling to the built-in defragger.

 

[ScottyDM]

Hi Sarah;

I've used Diskeeper in the past and have switched over to
PerfectDisk. I have a tiny network, only three Windows
2000 Servers (two are domain controllers), and two Windows
2000 Pro clients and one Windows ME notebook (usually off).

Both PD and DK are expen$ive and both about the same
price. You'll get a pretty good discount with 30k +
licenses, but for small unit retail I pay about $50 per
client and about $250 per server -- the *only* significant
difference between the client and server is the installer.
That is I get to pay a $200 server "tax" to Raxco.

Technically, I feel PerfectDisk outperforms Diskeeper.
Booth online and offline, PD *usually* produces better
results. At the time of my switch, PD was able to defrag
the MFT and DK could not (Executive Software may have
corrected this by now though). PerfectDisk does have a
weakness: If you exclude a large number of files from
defragmentation, PD uses a *lot* of RAM and it runs
slowly. It used to be *really* bad (taking nearly a GB of
RAM for 400,000 exclued files), but Raxco has improved it,
now it just runs slowly.

Microsoft has some weird gotchas in Windows 2000 that will
trip up any brand of defragger:

#1. Using the built-in file compression (in NTFS) confuses
the defragger. It appears that the OS reports the
uncompressed size to the defragger and also it seems to
uncompress and recompress files as they are moved. This
really trashes the performance of the defrag process.
Example, I have about 7.5 GB of mirrored CDs on one of my
servers. If compressed in NTFS, PD takes about 2.5 hours
for these files alone, each time I try to defrag this
volume. (It keeps thrashing in these static files, moving
them around.) If I turn off the compression, defrag
settles down after only a couple of passes and it can rip
through these files in only about 10 minutes (because it
can skip them). Suggestion: don't use NTFS file
compression, or don't bother trying to defrag NTFS
compressed volumes, or use the exclusion list (see PD
limitations though).

#2. There is a *serious* issue with the defrag process and
FRS (File Replication Service). FRS is used to replicate
AD entries between domain controllers and can also be used
as a sort of "poor man's" file mirroring service. In
Windows 2000 the defrag MOVE API triggers FRS. This causes
excessive replication traffic and in certain circumstances
can cause newly changed files to be overwritten with older
versions. Suggestion: Don't defrag the AD folders, or
don't change anything in the AD just before or during a
scheduled defrag, or don't use FRS for file mirroring, or
exclude defrag on mirrored files, or tell MS to fix the
stupid problem already (my current approach). This is
not supposed to be an issue with Windows 2003 Server.

Closing thoughts:

I've not tried Winternals' defragger, have you looked into
that one? At one time it was significantly cheaper than PD
or DK, and charging the same price for clients and
servers. However they seem to have shuffled things around
and now have a product called Defrag Manager, and they no
longer publish prices on their website. See
{http://www.winternals.com/}

Good luck with this.

ScottyDM

 

[neo [mvp outlook]]

yep. i'm just about to the point of contacting their support line. (want to
try it a couple of more times but try once with pagefile and then next time
with mft to see if i can get any isolation about cause.)

 

[Sarah Haff]

Hello,

Thanks everybody for all the suggestions.

So while evaluating each product, what are some of the
aspects/features should I take into consideration. What would be some
of the features, that I could use to compare one product to another.

What are some of the desirable features in a Disk defragmenter?

How can I stress test the defragmenter?

Thanks
Sarah

 

[Dan Seur]

Sarah - your best bet is to go to the various websites and do a lot of
reading, or call the various support desks and chat with them. A
websearch for info about defragging would be a good idea too.

I doubt many of the kind experts here have the time necessary to get
into extensive discussions. Of course, I could be totally wrong, too!

 

[Ricardo M. Urbano - W2K/NT4 MVP]

Hello Everybody,

I am evaluating hard disk defragmenting applications. Some of the one
I have seen are PerfectDisk, Diskeeper, and PageDefrag. I would like
hear the experiences (good/bad) that people have had with these
products. Seems like Diskeeper is one of the more popular products.

Which one would you recommend for use in enterprise setting (for
30,000+ computers).

Thanks,
Sarah

Guys, I'm a big PD fan as well, and the point about the enterprise and
Active Directory are all very relevant in this thread.

FYI, for those who have had some recent problems w/ PD, please be
patient. I happen to know that Greg Hayes (the PD God/guru/Dali Lama)
is here in NYC for the PC Expo and might be delayed getting home tonight
w/ that minor irritation called Isabel and whatnot ;->

DiskKeeper outsells PD for one reason and one reason only. It's the
only one that most casual users know since W2K and XP come w/ a built in
defragger that is often mistakenly referred to as DiskKeeper lite.
While the built in defragger is based on the DK Lite engine, Executive
Software sold the rights for DK Lite to MS and MS now develops it
independently of Executive, so to call the built in defragger DK Lite is
technically a misnomer. It is based on DK Lite, it is NOT DK Lite.
Anyway, whatever relationship MS and Executive has/had was a promotional
one: I scratch your back, you scratch mine. So, while most people
assume that the fact the the OS has a DiskKeeper derivative built in as
an "official" endorsment of the product, it is merely a strategic
marketing relationship. PerfectDisk took a huge leap forward w/ support
for Windows 2003 and AD integration. Not to mention that it has always
typically outperformed DK and works better under low disk space
conditions and is designed to be an effective "one-pass" defragger.
Meaning that it gets the job done right the first time, though it may
take longer than DK on the first pass. But that is because DK is
designed to run continuously over and over again during periods of low
CPU utilization.

 

[Jim Byrd]

Hi Sarah - Well, as I mentioned before, there are several useful White
Papers at the Raxco site. This one is specific to what you've asked: A
System Manager's Guide to Evaluating Disk Defragmentation Solutions.
http://www.raxco.com/products/perfectdisk2k/whitepapers/eval_guide.pdf

--
Please respond in the same thread.
Regards, Jim Byrd, MS-MVP



In

 

[Al Dykes]

Hmm... I tried PerfectDisk on laptops running Windows 2000 and Windows XP
Pro. It certainly seems to do a good job deframenting. However, both systems
I used it on had boot-up problems afterwards -- could not get into command
console on either and had to re-install the command console on both systems.
Whilst a problem with one might pass-by without too much worry, when it
happens on both machines, I get quite concerned.

What did Raxco Supprt say about your problem ?


FWIW I've been using PD for about 5 years in a corporate enviroment
on countless machines. I like it. With the right licensing It can
manage defrags on all the machines in a network but I've never tried
that.

I have no other relationship with the company other than being a
customer since about 1982.

 

[Al Dykes]

Hello,

Thanks everybody for all the suggestions.

So while evaluating each product, what are some of the
aspects/features should I take into consideration. What would be some
of the features, that I could use to compare one product to another.

What are some of the desirable features in a Disk defragmenter?

How can I stress test the defragmenter?

Life's too short

but you are looking for a corporate purchase and spening big bucks
so your doing The Right Thing.

I suggest contacting each of the vendors on your short list and tell
them how many licenses you are going to buy. That should get their
attention. Get the name of a salesman and work with him/her
until you've made your decision.

Ask each he sales rep exactly what you said, above. Let them make
their pitch. Get it in writing. They will all point out the
shortcommings of the oposition and hide thier own problems. Ask each
vendor if what you've been told is true or not. In the process you
will learn lots about defragging.

It's a little old but the O'Rielly book on NTFS might be usefull to you.
(www.ora.com)

IMHO I when and what you defrag depends on that kind of users you have,
and how full their C drives are. (Defrag on servers is much more complex,
esp if you have databases)


Here's how I use defrag when I'm setting up a machine (or building
a master machine to be ghosted)

1. Install the OS and all it's applications.

2. Set SWAP space to a fixed size (MAX=MIN) at a generous size
for your applications. Experimentation with perfom will sett
you how big. nobody else can tell what you're swap file size should
be.

3. I like to run systenternal's registry defrag.

4. Install and run a legal copy of a defrag product and do a
stand-alone (reboot) defrag that makes a single swap slice, cleans up
the MFT, and lots of other things.

At this point there are two kinds of users;

A. People that use email, write memos and cruse the web. IMHO there
is little need for you defrag these machines unless they come into the
shop for a tune up. With Machines with lots of free space the
operating system can most always find free space in big chucks. When
free space goes below 5% fragmentation skyrockets.

B. Obviously if a user is doing high-demand work, like Photoshop
a non-reboot defrag may be usefull, but stand-alone defrag
is unnecessary (IMHO) as long as setps 1-4 were done. Pay attetion
to static swap space setting for these folks.

C. When reinstalling/upgrading a major package like MS-Office a
stand-alone defrag is called for, afterwords but (in my shops) this
was done in the lab, not over the network, so I had a technician do
it.

 

[ScottyDM]

Neo;

Ok, I don't get it. What are you trying to fix? From your
original post I *think* that what you are doing is
scheduling an offline defrag, then you're disturbed that
XP reboots.

If this is the case, then this is *totally* *normal*. It
*is* an OFF-line defrag, so XP *must* be offline for the
defrag to run.

What am I missing?

And Michael has some good advice, run chkdsk. But it will
not keep PD from rebooting XP when you do an offline
defrag.

ScottyDM

-----Original Message-----
yep. i'm just about to the point of contacting their support line. (want to
try it a couple of more times but try once with pagefile and then next time
with mft to see if i can get any isolation about cause.)

<<-snipped->>

 

[Jerold Schulman]

Hello Everybody,

I am evaluating hard disk defragmenting applications. Some of the one
I have seen are PerfectDisk, Diskeeper, and PageDefrag. I would like
hear the experiences (good/bad) that people have had with these
products. Seems like Diskeeper is one of the more popular products.

Which one would you recommend for use in enterprise setting (for
30,000+ computers).

Thanks,
Sarah

I have tried them all, an PD is a cut above the rest.
Additionally, their support actually enjoys helping you.


Jerold Schulman
Windows: General MVP
JSI, Inc.
http://www.jsiinc.com

 

[Dan Seur]

I wondered why Greg's bright shiny face didn't pop up in this thread
Jason Claiborne, who often answers the phone at PD, is another good guy.

 

[Jim Byrd]

Hi Dan - I think I heard that Greg was at a conference in NY (?) at the
moment. He'll likely chime in when he returns.

--
Please respond in the same thread.
Regards, Jim Byrd, MS-MVP



In

 

[Greg Hayes/Raxco Software]

Neo,

If PD fails to defrag during boot time, then it is usually because some
other process has opened a write handle to the drive prior to PerfectDisk
being able to do what it needs to do. Do you have PCAnywhere V10.x
installed or StyleXPHelper installed on this system?

- Greg/Raxco Software
Microsoft MVP - Windows Storage Management/File System

Disclaimer: I work for Raxco Software, the maker of PerfectDisk - a
commercial defrag utility, as a systems engineer in the support department.