PDC's , dhcp and dns, and broadband router -- seeking opinions on best config

L

Lance Sherman

Thanks much for providing this newgroup service.

I am asking for advice or comment on the suggestions my customer received from a senior support tech at the customer's application vendor.

TheCustomer, a small insurance agency, uses a higher end app to manage customers and insurance policies. The latest upgrade or patch has resulted in slower initialization , which caused TheCustomer to complain to his vendor's tech support. (in the app startup, the app screen appears promptly, but the time to getting past the merge-last-nite's-data operation to the login screen is much-longer-than-it-used-to-be)

TheCustomer called me - I provide network support to him the last 4 years - and forwarded the email which follows:

----- FIRST Original Message -----
From: technician name removed
To: The customer
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:22 AM
Subject: Server/Network setup.


For an internal production network, the following Microsoft rules need to be applied:

For the Server:

Static information setup in TCP/IP including the servers own address for DNS (no secondary)

DNS setup on the SERVER, not the router or ISP

DHCP run from the SERVER, not the router.

DHCP to include DNS address (server) and Gateway address (router)

For the stations:

Either DHCP (from the server) OR Static information with the SERVER as the sole DNS server

Contact the Windows department for further clarification.

tech name removed MCP

Senior Tech II


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The configuration of the customer network is 6 Windows pc's, most WinXP, one or two Win98se, a Win2000 server config'd as a member server, with some local printer sharing and one printer plugged into the server. A router/firewall (Speedstream, I think) provides DHCP and the first DNS server is in the ISP.

I think this is a common config in such size networks, but I post this note to possibly learn that simple may not be better, in this situation.

The technician strongly encouraged me to promote the server to PDC, have it provide DHCP and the first level of DNS.

I exchanged further email, and then we had a cordial conversation by phone.

The support tech is of the firm opinion that "time lags, timeouts, and connection problems within the application" are caused by the DNS configuration

When we spoke, I offered my thought that no DNS issues were involved and that I am reluctant to change the simple setup. The application uses no web services, it uses only file service from the MS server (tho a web-based data update is done at nite automatically by a workstation).

I mentioned that netBUI is also running and that we might test for DNS involvement by simply unloading TCP from both the server and one test workstation. I like this because it is easily reversible, unlike PDC promotion (i think).

He was firm in his preference for the PDC, DHCP, and DNS reconfiguration, tho.

But of course I am very possibly completely mistaken, and if you think so, I am open to any comments, and references to any pertinent MS docs online will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks much for reading this tome i've posted - i will be esp'ly grateful for comments by any MCSE's or professional MS support folks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


NEXT MESSAGE-------------------------------from tech to me
Let me review the call notes and get back with you.

Offhand I would speculate that the DNS settings are being outsourced to the ISP. This is usually the ONLY arrangement that I would object to, and thus recommend a DNS change to the in-house server.

Again, I'll look at the notes when I'm off of my current call, then let you know. If you have a phone number I can call, send it to me, and when I can reach you if this requires it.

Thanks for getting back to me.



technian MCP

Senior Tech II

his company

Message-----
From: me
Sent:
To: the technician
ASubject: Changes to dhcp and dns on TheCustomer

Dear

I am the network and computer support person for your customer, .

I received the email quoted below from B. I apologize for my delay in responding - I am a one man shop and get buried sometimes.

I thank you for your thoughtful suggestions. I agree with you that the Microsoft guidelines are best, especially for a large network.

I have helped build larger networks where DNS and DHCP services were provided by a MS server, but in those cases we put those services on a separate server, not the file server, also consistent with MS guidelines, as I recall them. I am sure you are much more up to date with current MS guidelines.

Customer has only 5 users and one file server which also handles some print services.

I am puzzled, though, that you think the existing configuration is causing poor performance or a problem I am not seeing.

I very much want to help TheCustomer use your product and your support services.

Is it possible for us to discuss this on the phone? If so, please let me know when I might speak to you.

If not, I am sure we can work together by email.

Yours,

Lance Sherman

next message from tech---------------------

Below are the IPCONFIG settings from a workstation and the server. With DNS being set at the router (gateway), the stations are getting DNS information from the ISP, rather than the internal server. What this does is it causes the workstations to try the ISP for TheInsuranceAPP information first, and only after that times out do the stations look to the server. This causes time lags, timeouts, and connection problems within tam.

The correct way to set this up is to have the internal server act as the primary DNS for all stations. There should be no alternate DNS, as DNS on the server will use Root Hints to forward any internet requests to the ISP automatically.

If you have questions, let me know how to reach you, and we can discuss this further.

IP: 192.168.254.4

SUB: 255.255.255.0

DHCP:192.168.254.254

GATE: 192.168.254.254

DNS: 192.168.254.254

At the server:

IP: 192.168.254.3

Sub:255.255.255.0

DHCP:192.168.254.254

Gate: 192.168.254.254and

DNS: 192.168.254.254

tech

Senior Tech II
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


and one more email, that's probably not pertinent, for completeness

from me
to K


Thanks for your prompt and thoughtful replies, K

Here is my rusty old thought:

when a MS workstation attempts network communication, it first sends a netbios broadcast on the LAN to resolve the netbios name of the destination.

in modern MS LANs, the netbios packet is sent over tcp.

all pc's on the LAN see the broadcast and if one pc has that netbios name, it replies with its MAC address. then communication is established and no DNS services are utilized.

this is why i don't expect to see LAN delays with the current configuration at theCustomer.

i am 61 years old and can pass for one big pile of rust, if you don't look carefully.

and i pulled an all nighter to get 3 pc's out the door at 7:30 this morning - so if you would like to talk, it would certainly be my pleasure; monday morning (or any day next week) would be great. i don't think i have both oars in the water right now.

my phone - **************

or i can call you at some pre-determined time convenient for you.
 
L

Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]

Lance said:
Thanks much for providing this newgroup service.

I am asking for advice or comment on the suggestions my customer
received from a senior support tech at the customer's application
vendor.

TheCustomer, a small insurance agency, uses a higher end app to
manage customers and insurance policies. The latest upgrade or patch
has resulted in slower initialization , which caused TheCustomer to
complain to his vendor's tech support. (in the app startup, the app
screen appears promptly, but the time to getting past the
merge-last-nite's-data operation to the login screen is
much-longer-than-it-used-to-be)

TheCustomer called me - I provide network support to him the last 4
years - and forwarded the email which follows:

----- FIRST Original Message -----
From: technician name removed
To: The customer
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:22 AM
Subject: Server/Network setup.


For an internal production network, the following Microsoft rules
need to be applied:

For the Server:

Static information setup in TCP/IP including the servers
own address for DNS (no secondary)

DNS setup on the SERVER, not the router or ISP

DHCP run from the SERVER, not the router.

DHCP to include DNS address (server) and Gateway address
(router)

For the stations:

Either DHCP (from the server) OR Static information with
the SERVER as the sole DNS server

Contact the Windows department for further clarification.

tech name removed MCP

Senior Tech II

That's all correct.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------

The configuration of the customer network is 6 Windows pc's, most
WinXP, one or two Win98se, a Win2000 server config'd as a member
server, with some local printer sharing and one printer plugged into
the server. A router/firewall (Speedstream, I think) provides DHCP
and the first DNS server is in the ISP.

I think this is a common config in such size networks, but I post
this note to possibly learn that simple may not be better, in this
situation.

Common? Yes. Optimal? No. Your server should be dishing out DHCP and should
be the *only* DNS server IP specified on server or clients. Use forwarders
on the DNS server itself to your ISP's DNS servers.
The technician strongly encouraged me to promote the server to PDC,
have it provide DHCP and the first level of DNS.

If you're in a workgroup now, I tend to agree. I don't like workgroups -
peer to peer networks are fine for small home networks (a couple of
computers) but I don't believe they belong in corporate networks.
I exchanged further email, and then we had a cordial conversation by
phone.

The support tech is of the firm opinion that "time lags, timeouts,
and connection problems within the application" are caused by the DNS
configuration

Yep. Right now you're resolving the server name via broadcast. Not optimal.
I'd get rid of the Win9x PCs, too - get decent XP Pro boxes in there. It
will work a lot better. XP Home can't join a domain - remember that.
When we spoke, I offered my thought that no DNS issues were involved
and that I am reluctant to change the simple setup. The application
uses no web services, it uses only file service from the MS server
(tho a web-based data update is done at nite automatically by a
workstation).

Not relevant.
I mentioned that netBUI is also running

Not needed.
and that we might test for
DNS involvement by simply unloading TCP from both the server and one
test workstation. I like this because it is easily reversible, unlike
PDC promotion (i think).

No - do not remove TCP/IP. Remove NetBEUI. Since you have Win9x, you also
need to install/configure WINS (hybrid node - 0x8 option in your DHCP scope
on the Win2k server)
He was firm in his preference for the PDC, DHCP, and DNS
reconfiguration, tho.

I agree with him. Centralization is key - makes things run better, makes
troubleshooting and future changes/expansion a lot easier.
But of course I am very possibly completely mistaken, and if you
think so, I am open to any comments, and references to any pertinent
MS docs online will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks much for reading this tome i've posted - i will be esp'ly
grateful for comments by any MCSE's or professional MS support folks.
<snip>
I just have to admit I like that you used the word "tome" ;-)
 

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