Patriot Memory Warranty Problem

[ronaldmaustin]

I just upgraded to a new computer with new Corsair TwinX 1 gig memory
modules. My old memory was a single 512 MB Patriot Memory module.
Upon removing the stick of Patriot memory I noticed that a contact was
missing and, before I gave it away, I felt that this was something that
should be covered under Patriot's "lifetime" warranty, a copy of which
is available here: http://www.patriotmem.com/support/producttermsp.jsp

---Me to Patriot Memory Tech Support---

Your site says to fill in the PDF and e-mail it back. However it is
not a form that can be filled in.

**My contact info omitted**
Part No: PEP5123500LL
Quantity: 1
Serial: No serial number listed on the module
Problem: One of the contacts came loose from the module and fell off
Invoice: Unknown / Purchased at Frys
Date: I have had this memory for over one year, but I understood it
was lifetime warranty.

Thank you.

---David Liou to Me ---

Hi Ron

We are not able to replace any memory that is physical damaged or if
the memory is burned. Those are not covered under the lifetime
warranty.

Tech Support

---Me to David Liou---

From your warranty: "Patriot Memory warrants that all Patriot memory

product ("Products") will be free from defects in material and
workmanship . . ." When a contact falls off of the memory module, I'd
say it is a defect in material or workmanship. There is no provision
under Limitation of Warranty that this condition would fall under. So
could you please explain why this is not covered?

Thanks.

---David Liou to Me---

Hi ron

When the rmat department sees the pin that is off they are the ones
that will reject the product because when we shipped the memory out the
pin is on the memory. if there is no pin there the rmat department will
reject it because it falls under the burned part of the warranty
because there is no pin there. So if there is a missing pin that is
category as burned memory because of the missing pin so we are not able
to replace the memory.

Tech Support

---Me to David Liou---

I'm not trying to quibble with you over what is, at best, a $50 part at
this point. It has little use to me anyway since I just upgraded to
twin 1 gig modules. I was going to have it replaced and simply give it
away. However, dismissing a warranty return out of hand without ever
seeing the part or considering what caused the problem does not seem
right to me, in that your conditions to replace the part, or even look
at it, are not stated in the warranty.

When the rmat department sees the pin that is off they are the ones that will reject the
product because when we shipped the memory out the pin is on the memory.

I have no doubt that the pin was on the memory when I bought it, or I
would have just returned it to the store. A warranty is not about a
product being intact when it ships. Warranties are about products
which break sometime after purchase, but within the warranty period,
which is still in effect in this case.

if there is no pin there the rmat department will reject it because it falls under the burned
part of the warranty because there is no pin there.

There is no "burned part" of the warranty that I see. A burned part
*may* fall under one of your more general warranty limitations.
However, a missing contact has nothing whatsoever to do with burning
the memory. It is a physical problem with how the contacts are glued
or otherwise applied to the module. I have had over two dozen memory
modules within the last 20 years in addtion to many more various cards
with pins. I have never, ever, had a pin fall off of a card.
Moreover, I have installed and removed other memory into the same board
as the Patriot module in question and it has caused no damage to the
new memory. A contact which has become loose from the board, to me,
clearly appears to fall under the manufacturing defect clause.

So if there is a missing pin that is category as burned memory because of the missing pin
so we are not able to replace the memory.

Why not just state every piece of non-functioning memory is "burned"?
What real world situations, then, does your warranty cover? It is not
that you are unable to replace the memory, but that you simply choose
not to.

By the way, the memory functions and is testable, so it is not burned.
I simply think if memory has a "lifetime warranty" a contact should not
fall off in one year. But even if it were not testable because of the
missing pin, which I'd assume would most often be the case, I do not
think that implies anything at all about the memory being "burned". Or
is Patriot accusing its customers of burning memory and then ripping
off a pin?

---David Liou to Me---

Hi Ron

I can have the rmat department take a look at it for you. if you can
send a picture to me I can send it to them and have them decide if they
can replace it or not.

Tech support

---Me to this Newsgroup---

After a week of going back and forth with this guy, now he wants a
picture sent to him. I don't have a digital camera and, even if I did,
I don't know that I'd be inclined to take a picture, upload it to my
computer and e-mail it on the chance that Patirot just might give me an
RMA number so they can properly evaluate the nature of the defect.
When you buy memory, especially from Patriot, this is what a "lifetime"
warranty gets you.

Ron

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

I just upgraded to a new computer with new Corsair TwinX 1 gig memory
modules. My old memory was a single 512 MB Patriot Memory module.
Upon removing the stick of Patriot memory I noticed that a contact was
missing and, before I gave it away, I felt that this was something that
should be covered under Patriot's "lifetime" warranty,

---David Liou to Me ---

Hi Ron

We are not able to replace any memory that is physical damaged or if
the memory is burned. Those are not covered under the lifetime
warranty.

After a week of going back and forth with this guy, now he wants a
picture sent to him. I don't have a digital camera and, even if I did,
I don't know that I'd be inclined to take a picture, upload it to my
computer and e-mail it on the chance that Patirot just might give me an
RMA number so they can properly evaluate the nature of the defect.
When you buy memory, especially from Patriot, this is what a "lifetime"
warranty gets you.

How about using your scanner as a camera? I did that with this memory
module:

http://static.flickr.com/50/140847945_25b9016a45_o.jpg

It's a CompUSA brand PNY module with solder on a couple of its gold
fingers. The NW Phoenix store manager said that wasn't a defect, after
he did a 15-second "test".

Does the missing contact on your Patriot look as if it was never there,
or did it seem to peel off because of cheapo epoxy on the circuit
board? If the latter, you may want to try a credit card chargeback
because you can claim that you had no way of knowing within the usual
60-day limit for complaints that the manufacturer wouldn't stand behind
its warranty. Actually the 60-day limit under the Fair Credit Billing
Act doesn't always apply, plus Visa, Amex, Mastercard, and Discover
have their own time limits that are a lot longer, like a year.
Citibank has always simply cancelled small charges for me when I've
phoned them, but Chase/Bankone/FistUSA doesn't like to obey federal law
about chargebacks.

 

[kony]

I just upgraded to a new computer with new Corsair TwinX 1 gig memory
modules. My old memory was a single 512 MB Patriot Memory module.
Upon removing the stick of Patriot memory I noticed that a contact was
missing and, before I gave it away, I felt that this was something that
should be covered under Patriot's "lifetime" warranty, a copy of which
is available here: http://www.patriotmem.com/support/producttermsp.jsp

The question is more one of "does it need that contact".
If the memory module works, for all we know the contact was
never there. If the contact was there, was ripped off, but
the module still works fine (in extensive testing), it may
not even be worth the bother to RMA it.

---David Liou to Me---

Hi ron

When the rmat department sees the pin that is off they are the ones
that will reject the product because when we shipped the memory out the
pin is on the memory. if there is no pin there the rmat department will
reject it because it falls under the burned part of the warranty
because there is no pin there. So if there is a missing pin that is
category as burned memory because of the missing pin so we are not able
to replace the memory.

Tech Support

In a way he may be correct in that if the manufacturing was
bad enough that the pin just came off, this grey area could
cheat a customer.

On the other hand, you have to remember that if a CSR were a
technician, they wouldn't be doing the CSR duties. He is
not likely competent to analyze a memory contact and
determine if the pin fell off or if "burnt" off. These two
do look different to a trained technician, whether the trace
is torn or discolored/"burnt" through at the end.

I'm sure a CSR is subject towards taking the lesser broad
definition of warranty replacement acceptibility too, for a
company reselling generic memory they want to avoid a lot of
RMA costs.

---Me to David Liou---

I'm not trying to quibble with you over what is, at best, a $50 part at
this point. It has little use to me anyway since I just upgraded to
twin 1 gig modules. I was going to have it replaced and simply give it
away. However, dismissing a warranty return out of hand without ever
seeing the part or considering what caused the problem does not seem
right to me, in that your conditions to replace the part, or even look
at it, are not stated in the warranty.

Frankly, you should not have mentioned so much detail.
Instead only that you have a module that you need to RMA
that has a physical manufacturing defect (if asked why).

I have no doubt that the pin was on the memory when I bought it, or I
would have just returned it to the store. A warranty is not about a
product being intact when it ships. Warranties are about products
which break sometime after purchase, but within the warranty period,
which is still in effect in this case.

Above i was not trying to imply that you did something
"wrong" per se, only that too much information is more
information that can be used against you.

There is no "burned part" of the warranty that I see. A burned part
*may* fall under one of your more general warranty limitations.
However, a missing contact has nothing whatsoever to do with burning
the memory. It is a physical problem with how the contacts are glued
or otherwise applied to the module. I have had over two dozen memory
modules within the last 20 years in addtion to many more various cards
with pins. I have never, ever, had a pin fall off of a card.
Moreover, I have installed and removed other memory into the same board
as the Patriot module in question and it has caused no damage to the
new memory. A contact which has become loose from the board, to me,
clearly appears to fall under the manufacturing defect clause.

You are now falling victim to the "ask them what you're
allowed to do" mindset instead of the "tell them to replace
your memory, period, not trying to justify it beforehand".

Does your receipt have your name on it?
If you don't have it, hopefully they aren't going to require
it but... you might just have a friend try to RMA it now,
have them just call in and get an RMA number avoiding
mention of anything that has transpired thus far. They may
have already documented your call, thus the friend is
getting involved as an unknown 3rd party. Perhaps their RMA
department is going to reject it after they receive it... I
can't predict that, but such is always the potential but you
just pay the shipping and see what happens.

Why not just state every piece of non-functioning memory is "burned"?
What real world situations, then, does your warranty cover? It is not
that you are unable to replace the memory, but that you simply choose
not to.

By the way, the memory functions and is testable, so it is not burned.
I simply think if memory has a "lifetime warranty" a contact should not
fall off in one year. But even if it were not testable because of the
missing pin, which I'd assume would most often be the case, I do not
think that implies anything at all about the memory being "burned". Or
is Patriot accusing its customers of burning memory and then ripping
off a pin?

Maybe the memory had a factory defect. Maybe your
motherboard's memory slot has a factory defect. Maybe some
piece of solder from (who cares where?) fell into the slot
and shorted it. In the end you can examine the memory slot
carefully under strong light and if you find nothing wrong,
only decide whether to return a module that is supposedly
working properly still. I think you "likely" deserve a
replacement but if it were my module and it worked still, I
wouldn't bother unless it looked like other pins were also
coming off.

 

[ronaldmaustin]

I agree that I may not need the contact, but it did fall off as I saw
it dangling by the contact leading to it. It came clean off, not
scraped off like the one in the picture in a prior response. I'm just
a little ticked that they could apply this "burnt memory" concept to
any problem at all if they apply it here. They have refused to even
give me an RMA to look at the memory. I don't believe that an RMA
means they are obligated to replace the memory, but just to accept the
package to look at the module. I'm probably not going to bother with
it further, but I do appreciate all of your prompt responses.
Hopefully people will take these "lifetime warranties" for what they're
worth. In researching this, I found one manufacturer of video cards
that touts a "lifetime warranty" but it turns out that is only for the
"lifetime" of the production run, which can be under six months for
video cards!

Thanks again.

Ron

 

[ronaldmaustin]

kony, I re-read your message and they are all excellent points for
getting the memory replaced, and if it was a big deal to me, I'd be
kicking myself for going into too much detail. However, I really have
much less of a problem with returning this individual part. In fact,
if I don't proceed with this further (and I'll know it in a day or two)
I'd be willing to drop it in an envelope and give it to one of you
posters who responded so quickly and at length. I really just wanted
to point out (which is your point as well) that this tech (or whoever
he is) cannot know what the problem is without looking at the memory
and they refuse right off the bat to honor a "lifetime" warranty. If a
contact falling off the board is not something that could fall into the
manufacturing defect category then I don't know what is. Suppose I had
the more common problem of the memory just failing. Then I suppose
they'd say that this was "burnt".

Ron

 

[ronaldmaustin]

kony, I re-read your message and they are all excellent points for
getting the memory replaced, and if it was a big deal to me, I'd be
kicking myself for going into too much detail. However, I really have
much less of a problem with returning this individual part. In fact,
if I don't proceed with this further (and I'll know it in a day or two)
I'd be willing to drop it in an envelope and give it to one of you
posters who responded so quickly and at length. I really just wanted
to point out (which is your point as well) that this tech (or whoever
he is) cannot know what the problem is without looking at the memory
and they refuse right off the bat to honor a "lifetime" warranty. If a
contact falling off the board is not something that could fall into the
manufacturing defect category then I don't know what is. Suppose I had
the more common problem of the memory just failing. Then I suppose
they'd say that this was "burnt".

Ron

 

[ronaldmaustin]

kony, I re-read your message and they are all excellent points for
getting the memory replaced, and if it was a big deal to me, I'd be
kicking myself for going into too much detail. However, I really have
much less of a problem with returning this individual part. In fact,
if I don't proceed with this further (and I'll know it in a day or two)
I'd be willing to drop it in an envelope and give it to one of you
posters who responded so quickly and at length. I really just wanted
to point out (which is your point as well) that this tech (or whoever
he is) cannot know what the problem is without looking at the memory
and they refuse right off the bat to honor a "lifetime" warranty. If a
contact falling off the board is not something that could fall into the
manufacturing defect category then I don't know what is. Suppose I had
the more common problem of the memory just failing. Then I suppose
they'd say that this was "burnt".

Ron

 

[Grinder]

kony, I re-read your message and they are all excellent points for
getting the memory replaced, and if it was a big deal to me, I'd be
kicking myself for going into too much detail. However, I really have
much less of a problem with returning this individual part. In fact,
if I don't proceed with this further (and I'll know it in a day or two)
I'd be willing to drop it in an envelope and give it to one of you
posters who responded so quickly and at length. I really just wanted
to point out (which is your point as well) that this tech (or whoever
he is) cannot know what the problem is without looking at the memory
and they refuse right off the bat to honor a "lifetime" warranty. If a
contact falling off the board is not something that could fall into the
manufacturing defect category then I don't know what is. Suppose I had
the more common problem of the memory just failing. Then I suppose
they'd say that this was "burnt".

You might point out that the only thing burnt in this scenario is their
ex-customer, and that you're committing yourself to publicizing the
incident to anyone that will listen.