Outlook Express blocked from connecting to internet

[Tim]

Latest version of OE is blocked from connecting to
internet, but will connect if Internet Explorer is run
first, within a few seconds before starting OE. If IE
has not run recently first, OE will not connect, and
shows no attempted internet traffic on any tray icon: not
on MS Internet Connection, not on Zone Alarm Pro, or on
AnalogX NetSTatLive tray icons.

This was fixed, after many, many hours of testing and
rebooting, by turning off three Real Time, Internet,
Security Agents, none of which are needed by me:
1. Dialup Connection
2. Wifi Connection
3. Windows Messenger Service

My Diagnostics, as copied from Help/About/Diagnostics

Microsoft AntiSpyware version 1.0.501
Windows OS: XP
Windows OS Version Info: 148
Windows OS Major Version: 5
Windows OS Minor Version: 1
Windows OS Build: 2600
Current Path: C:\Program Files\Microsoft AntiSpyware
Install Path: C:\Program Files\Microsoft AntiSpyware\
Session.RunMode: 5
Session.TimeBombDaysRemaining: 195
Session.TimeBombExpirationDate: 7/31/2005
Real-time protection running: True
Real-time protection enabled: True
Security Agents Application Enabled: True
Security Agents Internet Enabled: True
Security Agents System Enabled: True
Security Agents Checkpoints: 56
Definitions Update Date: 1/16/2005 3:19:48 AM
AutoUpdater Enabled: 0
AutoUpdater AutoApply Enabled: 1
Definitions Increment Version: 35/35
Definitions ThreatAuditThreatData: 1177138
Definitions ThreatAuditScanData: 2125775
Definitions DeterminationData: 101577
Software Update Check Date:
AutoUpdater Software Enabled: 1
TotalThreatsDetected: 2
TotalScansRun: 6
LastScanDate: 1/16/2005 3:21:09 AM
Is US Locale: True
Locale Language: English (United States):English (0409)
Locale Country: United States:United States (1)
Processor Identifier: x86 Family 6 Model 7 Stepping 1
Processor Name: AMD Duron(tm) Processor
IE Version: 6.0.2900.2180
msvbvm60.dll: 6.0.96.90
vbscript.dll: 5.6.0.8820
gcUnCompress.dll: 1.1.0.0
gcmd5query.dll: 1.0.0.1
openports.dll:
SDelete.dll:
gcASSoapLib.dll: 1.0.0.501
gcPorttoProcess.dll:
gcTCPObjLib.dll: 1.0.0.501
gcasDtServ.exe: 1.0.0.501
gcAntiSpywareLibrary.dll: 1.0.0.501
gcIPtoHostQueue.exe: 1.0.0.501
gcasServ.exe: 1.0.0.501
gcasServAlert.exe: 1.0.0.501
gcasServHook.dll:
gcASHashLibrary.dll:
gcASThreatAudit.dll: 1.0.0.501
gcASCleaner.exe: 1.0.0.501
GIANTAntiSpywareUpdater.exe: 1.0.0.501
gcASPrivacyLib.dll: 1.0.0.501
gcASShredCtxShell.dll:
gcasSWUpdater.exe: 1.0.0.501
gcSoftwareUpdateLib.dll: 1.0.0.501
GIANTSpywareScan.exe:
gcasDtServ Status: Loaded
gcasDtServ IsAuthorized: True
gcAntiSpywareLibrary Status: Loaded
gcAntiSpywareLibrary IsAuthorized: True
gcASThreatAudit Status: Loaded
gcASThreatAudit IsAuthorized: True
Now: 1/17/2005 3:04:44 PM

 

[Robear Dyer, MS MVP]

And how is this connected to MSAS Beta?
--
OE6-specific newsgroup:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress

~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE), AH-VSOP

Inside Outlook Express
http://www.insideoe.com

 

[Gregg Hommel]

Robyear......

Read his post again, and perhaps you will note that he is talking about
the "work Offline" problem that has arisen with OE since the MSAS Beta
began, and that his "fix" involves three MSAS Real Time Agents being
turned off in order to prevent it on his system. Seems to me that it is
clear how it is connected to MSAS Beta, n'est-ca'pas?

Gregg "Moe" Hommel

 

[Tim]

I am writing in this forum in order to provide feedback
to MS about faults in your new program, which I
understand is part of the reason "Beta" programs are
issued in the first place, and also so I can try to help
others facing the same problem I found. Is this not the
whole purpose of a forum called "Application
Incompatibility", under the heading, "Windows AntiSpyware
(Beta) Newsgroups"?

Does this make it clearer?

When I installled MSAS Beta, an obvious application
incompatiblity that I found was that the...
The reference I made to three program icons that monitor
internet traffic attempts should simply indicate to you
that MSAS Beta is intercepting and blocking these outward
bound signals before they ever get to these internet
monitoring programs (including the MS Internet Connection
function). This info was provided by me to MS in my
post, for the same reason I gave you my "Diagnostics" as
derived from your help function on the website, for the
simple reason of helping you troubleshoot what is quite
apparently a bug in the MSAS Beta program.

This problem was fixed by me on a previously perfectly
operating computer, only by me, working hours to find out
that the fix could be done, only by me, changing
default "ON" settings for Agents built into MSAS Beta, on
Agents that have no functional relationship to OE when
used in a broadband application such as I have, with no
dialup connection in use whatsoever, with no Wifi
connection at all, and with no use of Windows Messenger
Service at all.

Providing no hint of such faulty settings in any help
file, while making users spend many hours to find such
wholly unrelated interactions of MS program settings, is
the exact opposite of everything that the MS company
calls, "intuitive".

Your curt, dismissive response, indicating your complete
failure to see any relationship of my post to MSAS Beta
is irresponsible, and insulting, however it may have been
intended. Please re-read my original post carefully, and
consider the context of what this Beta forum is intended
by MS to be all about.

Regards,
Tim

 

[Bill Sanderson]

Tim - thanks very much for your clear post.

You and I are running the same OS, same Outlook Express, and the same
Microsoft Antispyware. I've had no trouble at all with the issue you
experienced. I'm not saying that to deny your experience at all--just to
suggest that this isn't one that all users of the program are experiencing.
Others have definitely posted a similar issue.

It'd be interesting to compare notes among the machines experiencing this
issue to see what the commonalities might be.

For example--you mention three third-party applets in the system tray--Zone
Alarm, AnalogX, and NetSTatLive. I don't know which AnalogX applet that
icon relates to. Have you tried running without, for example, Zone Alarm,
to see whether the behavior is the same? If you want to test this, please
run the Windows Firewall as a substitute while you are testing! Basically,
I'm suggesting that this is likely a software conflict of some sort on your
particular machine--it can't be too uncommon a combination, because several
people have posted similar symptoms here. Others have posted difficulties
with certain Zone Alarm versions here, so that's where I'd start, in trying
to spot the conflict.

 

[Tim]

Bill,

First let me clear up the three tray icons that show up
in my lower right-hand tray to show me internet traffic,
also called the notification area.

1. One traffic display icon is the MS network traffic
icon, the icon of two crt screens side by side that blink
when internet traffic goes through. This icon is turned
on in XP by Control Panel/ Network Connections/ highlight
a connection/ right click for connection "Properties"/
General Tab/ "Show icon in notification area when
connected".

2. One icon in the same tray is ZoneAlarm Pro, which also
shows traffic generally.

3. One icon in the same tray is for NetStatLive, or NSL,
by the AnalogX company, at the following link:

www.analogx.com

This is a totally passive, non-interfering program that
gives internet traffic status, indicated at least in
general states by the blinking of the tray icon, and if
you double click the icon to maximize, you get a larger
window with actual time based graphics of your internet
traffic in or out. The nice thing about this icon is it
will blink if there is any traffic at all, no matter how
small it is.

I took your suggestion and did some further testing which
seems to indicate that the main problem with OE failing
to connect to the internet and hanging in that condition
is principally with web-based, http mail servers like
Hotmail, but not with POP3 accounts.

When I did some more testing, I gave MSAS Beta the best
chance I could to work without interference from other
programs. First I turned on those three Agents on MSAS
Beta, namely Dialup Protection, Wifi, and MS Messenger
Protection. Then I turned off, prior to reboot, every
program on my computer that might possibly interfere with
an internet connection, including ZoneAlarm, Norton
Antivirus Auto Protect and Email Scanning, and all other
anti-spyware programs I have. The result was exactly the
same.

MS Outlook Express does not connect to the internet
unless MS Internet Explorer has run a few seconds prior,
and MSIE always gets through to the internet every time
it is tried.

When I say MS OE doesn't connect to the internet, I
should add that because it can't even get hold of an
internet connection, it never gets to query a mail
server, so it just sits there with the little MS "Outlook
Express" mail activity window that says, "Checking for
new messages on "such and such" Hotmail account, which of
course is a web based, http mail server. It hangs in
this position on the first Hotmail account it tries,
without ever timing out, and there is absolutely no
attempted internet traffic shown at those tray indicators
I mentioned earlier.

Normally my MS OE starts by always checking mail first on
one of my Hotmail accounts, of which I have three, and
normally it then goes last to my local isp POP3 mail
accounts, of which I have two. That's a total of 5 OE
mail accounts, three Hotmail, and two local isp POP3.

With this current MSAS Beta problem that occurs when
those three, suspect MSAS Agents I mentioned above are
turned on from boot (Dialup Protection, Wifi, and MS
Messenger), MS OE just hangs up when trying to check the
first Hotmail account, without ever getting an outgoing
signal through to those tray icons, and without ever
trying the other accounts.

But this time I tried something different. After MS OE
hung on the first Hotmail account, I kept MS OE open, but
closed the "Outlook Express" mail activity window by
hitting the "Stop" button, then the "Hide" button. Next,
with OE still open, and with no internet traffic shown on
the tray icons, I then tried to do a mail "Send/Receive"
only on one of my POP3 accounts, to my local isp, and it
went through immediately, with no delay or interference
at all. Right after the POP3 mail came through, I then
tried within seconds a "Send'Receive All" which went also
went through fine, starting with the 3 Hotmail http
accounts, followed by the 2 POP3 accounts.

I used my WinPatrol program (a registry change protector
program) to record a copy of all running programs on my
pc at that time, right after first hanging on a Hotmail
account, then connecting to the internet a POP3 account.
The list of active tasks on my pc at that time shows that
no possibly conflicting internet connection programs
could have had produced this effect at this specific
point in time. You can see this list of tasks that were
active on my computer at that time. which I uploaded to
the following link:

http://home.swbell.net/twarlick/WinPatrol_Active_Tasks.htm

Then I tried to reconfirm this http mail vs POP3 mail
problem one other way.

With the three suspect MSAS Beta Agents still turned on,
I set MS OE to *not* check mail OE startup. Then I
waited over five minutes to start MS OE. When I clicked
the pulldown arrow to start an individual account mail
check, doing a "Send/Receive" of a single POP3 account
first, it immediately went right through to the internet
and got the POP3 mail.

Then I shut down OE and waited over five minutes to start
OE again. When I again click the pull down arrow, to
start an individual mail account "Send/Receive of a
single account, but this time a Hotmail account first, OE
hangs and does not show any internet traffic on the tray
icons. And this time when it hung, it immediately gave
me a OE message window that asks, "Would you like to go
offline? No connection to Internet is currently
available."...etc. I answered "NO", but it through
OE "Offline" anyway. This occurred with the MS network
icon still in the notification area showing me a working
internet connection, and is confirmed when I right click
the network icon and check the MS internet connection
network status window.

So under these conditions OE says I have no internet
connection, but MS XP says I do. That's with the three
suspect MSAS Agents all on, but me trying to use OE to
open a web-based, http type, Hotmail account on OE first.

Then next, I shut down OE completely and waited over five
minutes, then re-opened OE set for a "Send/Receive All"
upon opening, starting with the usual Hotmail account.
Because I had waited several minutes before starting OE
again, this time it hung on opening again on that first
Hotmail account, without ever registering any internet
traffic on any of my tray icons.

Here are my symptoms as it now stands:

With all Agents turned on on MSAS Beta, and with no
conflicting internet protection software turned on on my
computer, MS OE will not connect to the internet and will
hang indefinitely on the first http, web-based mail
account, such as Hotmail. But if I establish a working
internet connection simply by running MSIE first, or
having MS OE check a POP3 account first, then for at
least several seconds or a few minutes, the internet
connection path remains open to allow MS OE to make
internet connection to http, Hotmail accounts.

After a few minutes from the last successful internet
connection, and before five minutes has expired, the
internet connection closes again, and if MS OE is started
up again, it will not aquire an internet connection when
it starts with an http, web-based, Hotmail account, and
it will hang in that condition without ever timing out.

I hope that helps. I'm tired of testing on this. My
problem is totally fixed by leaving those three suspect
MSAS Agents off. Btw, I'm a degreed BSEE, and I've done
lots of program debugging on process control software,
(not the kind of software you guys use) but I can at
least empathize, and hope this info helps you do some of
your trouble-shooting.

See if you can replicate the symptoms I have seen, to
test for yourself if it is just a fluke, one-time
installation problem for me alone, or a wider programming
error as I suspect.

I'd be willing to bet that one of those three MSAS Agents
has a timing function that starts and stops in the two to
five minute range for checking or blocking open internet
connections, and the faulty code is related to that.

Regards,
Tim

 

[Simon Zerafa]

Hi,

Disabling the ZoneAlarm Systray Icon may well have caused these issues :-(

I have had experience of doing exactly this and then Zone Alarm will begin
to block previously accepted application for inbound and outbound traffic.
No warnings are shown when this happens.

The only way to resolve this is to run Zone Alarm and then delete the
affected applications from it's list and then re-accept them when you
attempt to use them again.

All will be well for a while and this will happen again at some point in the
future.

If you don't want the Zone Alarm application running then uninstall it
rather than just disabling it.

Kind Regards

Simon
-

 

[Tim]

Hi Simon,

Yeah, I've seen plenty of very similar things in past
versions of Zapro, virtually identical, but none in the
last 6 months or so of updates to ZA.

But this one is not related to ZoneAlarm at all, because
I turned it completely off with no ZA restart after
rebooting XP, and my WinPatrol list of active tasks
during testing, which I posted, shows that no part of ZA
is running on my computer at all when this happens.

This one is clearly a MSAS Beta issue alone. My final
tests were made without even the Windows firewall on, no
internet defense or blocking programs, no antivirus, no
firewall software, or other antispy software running at
all.

I can safely test this way because I'm behind a Netgear
brand hardware firewall/router where I'm the only
computer connected. XP connects to my router by the
router's own DHCP network, which has absolutely no effect
on the internal pc software problems we are seeing here
with MSAS Beta. My external hardware firewall has no
effect on whether an internet connection request is
blocked within XP, within the software, before it even
can get to the TCP/IP protocol traffic monitoring
programs I use on my pc, like the MS XP network icon, or
the NetStatLive icon and program.

Regards,
Tim

 

[John]

Did you try the netsh trick just for kicks? I worked on someone's PC that
used to have ZoneAlarm on it and even though it had been deleted and no
service left running on the pc, it would not behave correctly until I
rebuilt the network connection.

 

[Tim]

Hi John,

Nah, but thanks for the netsch suggestion. Like I said
I'm tired of testing for a while, and ok with my status
quo.

My Zapro and my whole pc worked perfect before MSAS Beta,
and it all works great for me now, including MSAS Beta,
as long as I keep those three MSAS Beta Agents turned
off. I'm really happy at the moment, and MSAS looks like
a good additional antispyware proggie, as long as it
keeps working, does all it's supposed to do, and stays
free.

Even if their MSAS problem is somehow associated to
ZoneAlarm's mere existence on my computer, and shows up
even when ZA is turned completely off, that's for MS and
ZA to work out between them. ZA is such a popular
program right now, they'll have to come up with some kind
of fix anyway, and from the looks of all the
mail/internet connection problems being reported here, at
least some of it is in MS's corner to fix.

I'm just waiting to see if MS can replicate any of the
http mail problems vs. POP3 mail working ok, that I have
found on my OE. I'm curious now, and I'd just like to
see any response from them, one way or the other.

Regards,
Tim

 

[Robear Dyer, MS MVP]

Tim wrote:

MS Outlook Express does not connect to the internet
unless MS Internet Explorer has run a few seconds prior,
and MSIE always gets through to the internet every time
it is tried.

Then I shut down OE and waited over five minutes to start
OE again. When I again click the pull down arrow, to
start an individual mail account "Send/Receive of a
single account, but this time a Hotmail account first, OE
hangs and does not show any internet traffic on the tray
icons. And this time when it hung, it immediately gave
me a OE message window that asks, "Would you like to go
offline? No connection to Internet is currently
available."...etc. I answered "NO", but it through
OE "Offline" anyway.

<snip>

You state that you have a broadband connection. Is it DSL, cable or
satellite?

Does the same behaviour persist if you eliminate the wireless connection and
connect directly instead?

Other OE users who do not have MS AntiSpyware installed have had similar
problems with Hotmail accounts lately (hence my original query), though I am
not saying MS AntiSpyware isn't at fault in your instance.

 

[Tim]

Thanks for asking, Robear,

My broadband is DSL, runs about 1.3 megahertz, with zero
packet loss whenever I test it.

You also asked:

Does the same behaviour persist if you eliminate the
wireless connection and connect directly instead?

I don't have or use wireless at all. My pc has a nic
card, that connects to my hardware router/firewall on a
DHCP network built into the router, with just my one
computer on it. The router connects direct to my DSL
modem with a network cable, and the DSL modem connects to
the phone company and isp on their own DHCP system
(although in actuality, my ip number never changes).
Because it's all DHCP, it all works by default, with
almost no extra configuration, very simple, and very
stable, has given me no trouble, and I've reviewed all my
network settings and they seem fine, as always.

The Wifi MSAS Agent is just one of the three Agents (the
other two being Dialup and Messenger) none of which I
need or use. But they all default on, so you'd think
that monitoring a function not in use would have no
negative, secondary effects, right? I don't mind leaving
them off at all, but other users may need some of them
on, and who is going to figure out that three functions
which should have nothing to do with making http mail bad
even though POP3 mail is good on OE? And I strongly
suspect it is related to several people on these forums
seeing mail stop completely and just uninstalling MSAS
Beta without further tetsting. Who knows how many of
those just had trouble with http web-based mail locking
up their mail program when it could not get an internet
connection, at the very time XP, for instance, tells them
they do have a working internet connection.

As to which one of the three Agents is really the
culprit, that could be found out after someone at MS
tests to see if they get any of the results I've seen.

You also mention:

Other OE users who do not have MS AntiSpyware installed
have had similar problems with Hotmail accounts lately
(hence my original query), though I am not saying MS
AntiSpyware isn't at fault in your instance.

The only problems I've ever had with Hotmail, other than
minor service outages at MS, was with old versions of
ZoneAlarm Pro many months ago, but I figured out that if
I just add all the Hotmail mail servers to my trusted
zone on ZApro, (along with my isp DNS servers), Hotmail
messages just fly through ZApro with no problem.

But I haven't had any such problems at all in many months
with Hotmail, and like I said earlier, this present
Hotmail block vs. POP3 no block on OE situation still
occurs now with no part of ZoneAlarm Pro running from
boot. I'm sure ZApro is not involved in this directly.

Have any of you guys been able to reproduce any of what I
found? It's really not hard to check if you just try
what I detailed. All you have to have is OE with a
Hotmail account and a POP3 account. Has anyone tried to
duplicate the test I mentioned earlier, like I did, with
all MSAS Agents turned on, including the three?
______________________________________________________

"Then I tried to reconfirm this http mail vs POP3 mail
problem one other way.

"With the three suspect MSAS Beta Agents still turned on,
I set MS OE to *not* check mail OE startup. Then I
waited over five minutes to start MS OE. When I clicked
the pulldown arrow to start an individual account mail
check, doing a "Send/Receive" of a single POP3 account
first, it immediately went right through to the internet
and got the POP3 mail.

"Then I shut down OE and waited over five minutes to
start OE again. When I again click the pull down arrow,
to start an individual mail account "Send/Receive of a
single account, but this time a Hotmail account first, OE
hangs and does not show any internet traffic on the tray
icons."

 

[Bill Sanderson]

Have any of you guys been able to reproduce any of what I
found? It's really not hard to check if you just try
what I detailed. All you have to have is OE with a
Hotmail account and a POP3 account. Has anyone tried to
duplicate the test I mentioned earlier, like I did, with
all MSAS Agents turned on, including the three?

This is what I did: I have an existing Outlook Express setup with, I think,
three different pop3 accounts. I added a hotmail account.

I sent mail to and from the hotmail account.

No issues whatsoever in adding the account, checking for messages once the
account was added, or sending and receiving mail from the hotmail account.

I have no significant issues with Microsoft Antispyware on this machine.
Others DO see significant issues--prompts that are instantaneous for me take
minutes to appear for them.

So--I don't doubt your experience, but I don't think it is intrinsic to the
design of the product, but perhaps it is a subtle result of a performance
issue on your machine, or an interaction with other software on your
machine.

 

[Tim]

Ok, thanks for trying!

-----Original Message-----


This is what I did: I have an existing Outlook Express setup with, I think,
three different pop3 accounts. I added a hotmail account.

I sent mail to and from the hotmail account.

No issues whatsoever in adding the account, checking for messages once the
account was added, or sending and receiving mail from the hotmail account.

I have no significant issues with Microsoft Antispyware on this machine.
Others DO see significant issues--prompts that are instantaneous for me take
minutes to appear for them.

So--I don't doubt your experience, but I don't think it is intrinsic to the
design of the product, but perhaps it is a subtle result of a performance
issue on your machine, or an interaction with other software on your
machine.


.

 

[Bill Sanderson]

Tim - you've given lots of good specifics in this thread. I'd actually
never run OE with a hotmail account--I have a slight reflex fear of doing
that because my main email address is at MSN.COM and it is pop3 and I want
it to stay that way and not get converted to HTTP. So I have this fear of
touching HTTP mail access OE.

At any rate, the Microsoft folks looking at the issues with this beta
shouldn't have any trouble testing with a similar setup to yours, including
Zone Alarm and hotmail.

I know very little about their procedures, so I don't know whether this is
the kind of report they will try to replicate or not, but thanks for posting
all the specifics so that this is possible.

 

[Robear Dyer, MS MVP]

Inline w/snippage:

Thanks for asking, Robear,

My broadband is DSL, runs about 1.3 megahertz, with zero
packet loss whenever I test it.

You also asked:

Does the same behaviour persist if you eliminate the
wireless connection and connect directly instead?

I don't have or use wireless at all. My pc has a nic
card, that connects to my hardware router/firewall on a
DHCP network built into the router, with just my one
computer on it.

OK, if you eliminate the router?

The only problems I've ever had with Hotmail, other than
minor service outages at MS, was with old versions of
ZoneAlarm Pro many months ago, but I figured out that if
I just add all the Hotmail mail servers to my trusted
zone on ZApro, (along with my isp DNS servers), Hotmail
messages just fly through ZApro with no problem.

But I haven't had any such problems at all in many months
with Hotmail...

Count yourself fortunate. The Hotmail-in-OE/OL bug eventually bites
everyone in the a**.

IMO Hotmail works best as the default (or only) account in OE if
'Send/Receive at startup' and 'Go directly to inbox' are not enabled in OE
Tools>Options>General tab.

Your current Identity may be damaged, especially if its the default Main
Identity. Try the account in a new Named Identity (File>Identities>Add new
identity). Assuming all is well, import messages from the old Identity's
local folders (don't bother with Hotmail folders) before deleting it
(File>Identities>Manage Identities).

Other OE caveats include:

- Don't use Inbox or Sent Items to archive messages. Move them to local
folders created for this purpose.

- Empty Deleted Items folder daily.

- Disable Background Compacting [N/A in SP2] and frequently perform a
manual compact of all OE folders while "working offline". More at
http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm.

- Your anti-virus application's email scanning feature can also cause
such corruption. Disable it. It provides no additional protection.

 

[Robin Walker [MVP]]

My broadband is DSL, runs about 1.3 megahertz

Check that the MTU on the Windows network connection for the NIC that leads
to the router is set to no more than 1492. The default is 1500, which is
too large. You can use a utility such as DrTCP from BroadbandReports to set
the MTU.

 

[Bill Sanderson]

That's a good thought, but the initial message on the thread indicates that
he can connect fine if he turns off the active protection agents--so this
probably isn't an MTU issue.