OT: Win7 vs Win8

[Norm Cook]

I freely admit I'm a dinosaur, had to be drug away from
Win98 to XP. I now have a desktop with XP SP3 that I run
in Classic Mode and that is the style I prefer.

Now I'm considering a laptop with a VM for XP, but they
all seem to come with either Win7 or Win8 preinstalled.

I have googled Win7 vs Win8 but the results are
inconclusive.

Many experts here, so which do you think I should be
looking at. Thanks.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I freely admit I'm a dinosaur, had to be drug away from
Win98 to XP. I now have a desktop with XP SP3 that I run
in Classic Mode and that is the style I prefer.

Now I'm considering a laptop with a VM for XP, but they
all seem to come with either Win7 or Win8 preinstalled.

I have googled Win7 vs Win8 but the results are
inconclusive.

Many experts here, so which do you think I should be
looking at. Thanks.

In my view, you should get Windows 8. It's best to get the current
version rather than the obsolescent one. And despite the negative
things that many people say about Windows 8, it's very good. Windows
8 has two interfaces; the Modern/Metro Interface (which may be all
you've looked at) and the traditional Desktop Interface. You can use
either one or both.

That traditional Desktop Interface is almost identical to Windows 7's
interface; the biggest difference is that there is no Start Orb to
click to bring up the Start menu. But note that you can get the Start
Orb back by using one of several third-party programs, either free or
very inexpensive (Classic Shell at
http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ and Start8 at
http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/; my personal preference is
Start8, but they are both very good). And going from one interface to
the other is very easy; there are several ways, but simply pressing
the Windows key is perhaps the easiest.

I use Windows 8, almost exclusively with the traditional desktop
interface, and with Start 8 installed. If you were to look at and use
my computer, you would have a hard time realizing that it's not
Windows 7. And another new third-party program that I like and you
might want is the $4.99 ModernMix at
http://www.stardock.com/products/modernmix/ I also recommend that you
read "How to Make Windows 8 or 8.1 Look and Feel Like Windows 7" at
http://www.howtogeek.com/elk/298/45121/4206

 

[Paul]

I freely admit I'm a dinosaur, had to be drug away from
Win98 to XP. I now have a desktop with XP SP3 that I run
in Classic Mode and that is the style I prefer.

Now I'm considering a laptop with a VM for XP, but they
all seem to come with either Win7 or Win8 preinstalled.

I have googled Win7 vs Win8 but the results are
inconclusive.

Many experts here, so which do you think I should be
looking at. Thanks.

Translating your requirement, it sounds like you are
trying to make a laptop have an interface visually
similar to your old setup.

Running WinXP in a VM, that's a total of two OSes. Programs
can be started in either OS.

WinXP Mode guest OS ----> (draws program windows on screen)
|
Windows Virtual PC
|
Windows 7 ------------> (draws program windows on screen)
Host OS

The difference between a WinXP Mode guest (500MB download)
and a regular installation of WinXP into Windows Virtual PC,
is the ability to use Terminal Server communications, so
"programs drawn on screen" appear as if they were running
in Windows 7, and don't have a regular framework (rectangular box)
drawn around the lot, like you'd get with other hosting software.
The "WinXP Mode" download, is supported on the more
expensive versions of Windows 7.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Virtual_PC

"Windows XP Mode is available free of charge to users
of Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, and Ultimate."

A consumer laptop would come with something like Home Premium,
whereas maybe a business laptop would come with Professional.
For a consumer to get the upper versions of Windows 7, would
require an "Anytime Upgrade" purchase. It amounts to paying
a fee to get the WinXP Mode guest OS, so we cannot really
conflate this as a "free" feature.

*******

So what are the characteristics that matter ?

A 64 bit OS runs 64 bit and 32 bit executables.
A 32 bit OS runs 32 bit and 16 bit executables.

Some older 32 bit programs have 16 bit installers,
meaning the installer cannot finish running and place
the files in a Program Files folder for you. So if you
had a really old collection of software, a 32 bit OS
might be better for that.

The WinXP Mode guest OS would be 32 bit. The host
could be 32 bit or 64 bit. So you could get a Windows 7 x64
laptop with Pro/Enterprise/Uitimate and run WinXP Mode on it.

*******

The second aspect is the GUI. You like the Classic look.
Add-ons such as ClassicShell can be used, to change how
the OS looks. This won't change everything, and things
like the addition of the Library feature will still be
there.

ClassicShell is listed as supporting Windows 7 here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternative_shells_for_Windows

Windows 8 has a large list of options too, some of which are
free and some with a small charge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Start_Menu_replacements_for_Windows_8

When you run an old program on Windows 7 or Windows 8, if
you right-click the .exe file, you can select to run in
"Compatibility Mode". To me, this appears to be offering
APIs to the program, to convert a new API into an older
API (so OpenAL sound becomes an older form of audio standard).
And in some cases, that helps an older program run in a newer
OS.

*******

For all of this foolery, is the result pleasant ? No, in
the sense that you're always "looking over your shoulder".
"When I want to do this or that, will it work ?" (not always)
"Can I get my old scanner or printer working ?" (yes, with luck)

There really is no seamless option for a WinXP user. Not every
user is going to be satisfiable with the options at hand.
Especially when you try to buy some solution as described
in the above.

If you buy a business laptop with Windows 8 Pro, there are
downgrade rights to Windows 7 Pro. And that would give access
to WinXP Mode, for what it is worth. The WinXP Mode guest OS,
would have the same exposures to malware as your current
WinXP operating system (security updates stop after Apr.2014).

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx#fbid=UPIGWlirlEt

In some cases, when you see Windows 7 gear for sale, it
might be based on using downgrade rights. And that's how
they're getting Windows 7 on the machine.

http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTE...163_us/en/pc_comm/workstations/zbook15/buynow

"Operating system Windows 7 Professional 64 (available through
downgrade rights from Windows 8 Pro)"

WinXP Mode would be used, to gain program-run-environment
compatibility. WinXP Mode is not selected by users as a
way to get a Classic Menu. Windows 7 or Windows 8 can
do that with a third-party add-on "ClassicShell" type software.

HTH,
Paul

 

[casey.o]

I freely admit I'm a dinosaur, had to be drug away from
Win98 to XP. I now have a desktop with XP SP3 that I run
in Classic Mode and that is the style I prefer.

Now I'm considering a laptop with a VM for XP, but they
all seem to come with either Win7 or Win8 preinstalled.

I have googled Win7 vs Win8 but the results are
inconclusive.

Many experts here, so which do you think I should be
looking at. Thanks.

You're not alone. I guess I'm a dinosaur too. I'm just starting to use
XP, but at the moment, I'm using my favorite OS, Win98. I'll be using
XP more when I get the internet to work on it, but I still like Win98
the most. What can I say, it's a matter of taste, and we all have our
favorite foods and favorite OSs. It's too bad MS dont understand this,
and offer several flavors of Windows. At least two. A simple one, and
their latest bloatware. A third one would be better yet. If I had to
vote, I'd choose Win98 (with a few fixes), XP, and their latest
bloatware.

I've never used 7 or 8, so I cant comemnt on them. I just know they are
not for me. Particularly that touch screen crap they have in Win8. As I
said to someone recently, a computer is not a damn cellphone.

 

[Mayayana]

| In my view, you should get Windows 8. It's best to get the current
| version rather than the obsolescent one. And despite the negative
| things that many people say about Windows 8, it's very good. Windows
| 8 has two interfaces; the Modern/Metro Interface (which may be all
| you've looked at) and the traditional Desktop Interface. You can use
| either one or both.
|

There's news today that the Start Menu may be coming
back... eventually:

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-to-bring-back-start-menu-windowed-apps-to-windows-7000027988/

Reading the details, though, it seems they're talking
about Metro apps in windows and "live tiles" on the
Start Menu. So not really a return of the Start Menu
but rather a mashing together of Windows and Metro.

All this makes me curious: For those of us who have
no thought of ever using anything Metro, are there
specific reasons to put up with the dual-OS mess of
Win8? It sounds like you, yourself only want the UI
of Win7, but you think it's worth having Win8 nevertheless.
I'm wondering if there are articles somewhere
detailing what exactly is new in Win8, in terms of actual
functionality, new hardware support, etc, that's not
in Win7. I'd also be curious to read more about different
views of what's improved and what's worse, aside from
Metro. I tried out the Win8 beta and found it horrendous,
but in fairness, I never actually seriously considered the
possibility of fixing it -- disabling Metro permanently -- so
I never really tried the Windows side.



| That traditional Desktop Interface is almost identical to Windows 7's
| interface; the biggest difference is that there is no Start Orb to
| click to bring up the Start menu. But note that you can get the Start
| Orb back by using one of several third-party programs, either free or
| very inexpensive (Classic Shell at
| http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ and Start8 at
| http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/; my personal preference is
| Start8, but they are both very good). And going from one interface to
| the other is very easy; there are several ways, but simply pressing
| the Windows key is perhaps the easiest.
|
| I use Windows 8, almost exclusively with the traditional desktop
| interface, and with Start 8 installed. If you were to look at and use
| my computer, you would have a hard time realizing that it's not
| Windows 7. And another new third-party program that I like and you
| might want is the $4.99 ModernMix at
| http://www.stardock.com/products/modernmix/ I also recommend that you
| read "How to Make Windows 8 or 8.1 Look and Feel Like Windows 7" at
| http://www.howtogeek.com/elk/298/45121/4206

 

[Bob Willard]

I freely admit I'm a dinosaur, had to be drug away from
Win98 to XP. I now have a desktop with XP SP3 that I run
in Classic Mode and that is the style I prefer.

Now I'm considering a laptop with a VM for XP, but they
all seem to come with either Win7 or Win8 preinstalled.

I have googled Win7 vs Win8 but the results are
inconclusive.

Many experts here, so which do you think I should be
looking at. Thanks.

In my house, I presently have Win98SE, WinXPpro, WinXPhe,
WinXPmc, Win7, Win8, OS X (running on a fruit machine), and
some Androids. Not that I'm an expert; I'm just a seasoned
amateur with variety.

To choose between Win7 and Win8, I'd go with Win8 because it is
a more recent code base, probably supports more hardware, and
will be supported for longer.

I do not like the Metro GUI at all, since I don't have a WinTablet.
But with the (free, albeit enormous) patch to v8.1, you get the
Start Orb back, and it is very easy to click from Metro to a
traditional Windows GUI.

I guess I am a traditionalist when it comes to WinDuhs: I run
variants of the Castle.BMP as my background on all of "my" PCs:
Win9x, WinXP, Win8, and (until it died) WinVista. IIRC,
Castle.BMP came with Win95 (or was it Win3.1?).

As a gourmand/gourmet OS user, I do think that WinDuhs peaked with
WinXP: more stable than any earlier WinOS, and less bloat and
fewer annoyances than later WinOS's. Just my opinion.

 

[BillW50]

All this makes me curious: For those of us who have
no thought of ever using anything Metro, are there
specific reasons to put up with the dual-OS mess of
Win8? It sounds like you, yourself only want the UI
of Win7, but you think it's worth having Win8 nevertheless.
I'm wondering if there are articles somewhere
detailing what exactly is new in Win8, in terms of actual
functionality, new hardware support, etc, that's not
in Win7. I'd also be curious to read more about different
views of what's improved and what's worse, aside from
Metro. I tried out the Win8 beta and found it horrendous,
but in fairness, I never actually seriously considered the
possibility of fixing it -- disabling Metro permanently -- so
I never really tried the Windows side.

There are lots of new nifty things under Windows 8 on the classic
desktop side. The Task Manager is vastly improved for one. And file
copying, moving, etc. can be displayed as a graph which I love. There
are other improvements too, but those are my favorites.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <[email protected]>,

I've never used 7 or 8, so I cant comemnt on them. I just know they are
not for me. Particularly that touch screen crap they have in Win8. As I
said to someone recently, a computer is not a damn cellphone.

I've got a 7 machine, mainly for supporting friends (i. e. so when they
ask something, I can try it out). After a little learning, I'd say it's
not too hard for someone used to XP - in fact, for an undemanding person
who just uses softwares, 9x, XP, and 7 are similar enough to live with.I haven't played with 8 enough to comment, and with its non-tiled
interface, not at all.

Incidentally, one set of friends I support are blind: now you think
_you've_ got problems. And yet it was her decision to get a new computer
with 7 on it! I admire her gumption.