OT: What does "home-building" mean to you?

[John Doe]

Just answering the subject line question is OK with me, but some
specific questions with my (answers) are below.

How much do you know about software?
(Very little I don't know about using Windows. There are lots of
applications I don't know specifically, but most have something to
do with the Windows interface and file management)

What do you use your homebuilt PC for?
(It does whatever I want it to do. Dabbling with Electronic Design
Automation EDA was the most interesting early on and the first
specific reason I had to acquire a PC. Currently practicing
dictation and voice automation, sometimes horribly frustrating.
Gaming, of course. Communications, USENET and instant messaging, but
very little e-mail which consist mainly of store receipts and spam
nowadays)

How often do you buy new hardware for your computer?
(As often as possible, maybe once every two months now that I am
about at the price/value cutoff point, always lagging behind
state-of-the-art)

Generally speaking, does "homebuilt" mean you buy all the parts at
once and build or does it mean you continuously build your computer
replacing parts?
(I continuously build, but one person's opinion does not make a
definition, and maybe it includes both and maybe it includes other
ideas... whatever)

 

[jaster]

Just answering the subject line question is OK with me, but some
specific questions with my (answers) are below.

How much do you know about software?
(Very little I don't know about using Windows. There are lots of
applications I don't know specifically, but most have something to do
with the Windows interface and file management)

Not much really, enough to use, code a script, a macro or an html page.
Most software generates some error messages which if lucky can be isolated
and found in a discussion on the web. Some software have features I'll
never use.

What do you use your homebuilt PC for? (It does whatever I want it to
do. Dabbling with Electronic Design Automation EDA was the most
interesting early on and the first specific reason I had to acquire a
PC. Currently practicing dictation and voice automation, sometimes
horribly frustrating. Gaming, of course. Communications, USENET and
instant messaging, but very little e-mail which consist mainly of store
receipts and spam nowadays)

Games, web, email, playing music and sometimes vids from SkyOne. And
many, many thanks to all the SkyOne contributors.

How often do you buy new hardware for your computer? (As often as
possible, maybe once every two months now that I am about at the
price/value cutoff point, always lagging behind state-of-the-art)

Not that often. I tend to move components down the line, ie, gamer,
wifes, server, kids pc, junk parts. I upgrade when something fails
(memory), I've reached a need (DVD burner, KVM switch), a sale too hard to
pass up (video card) or when the cheap pre-builts compare evenly with my
homebuilt (similiar components).

Generally speaking, does "homebuilt" mean you buy all the parts at once
and build or does it mean you continuously build your computer replacing
parts?
(I continuously build, but one person's opinion does not make a
definition, and maybe it includes both and maybe it includes other
ideas... whatever)

To me continuously build. The last pre-built I bought contained a Cyrix
166 processor with < 10gb hd.

FWIW, homebuilt is not pre-built. For instance, you can buy an airplane
kit and build the plane at home or you can build a car or airplane as you
acquire the parts.

 

[Mxsmanic]

Home-building is construction of a computer from components chosen and
purchased by the end user.

 

[BigJim]

the only difference is that a home built machine has the
parts you chose to put in it. The brand name motherboard for example.
Everything is selectable and you select it for your use.
The cost savings use to be more than it is now, but you can still
save a few bucks. Most people build them with the intentions on
be able to upgrade them especially the cpu, video and memory.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Just answering the subject line question is OK with me,

<SNIP>

It's really just about assembling prebuilt parts. The most value added by
the "home-builder" is in choosing the parts. Slotting everything together is
a doddle. There can be some skill in troubleshooting any faulty components.

I once built a metal detector. I bought each individual capacitor and
resistor etc and actually soldered it together, and I even made the case
from the sheet metal of an old washing machine.
To me, that was building.

Regards

Martin

 

[David Maynard]

the only difference is that a home built machine has the
parts you chose to put in it. The brand name motherboard for example.
Everything is selectable and you select it for your use.
The cost savings use to be more than it is now, but you can still
save a few bucks. Most people build them with the intentions on
be able to upgrade them especially the cpu, video and memory.

There's a couple of other at least potential differences. For one, the
typical home builder is usually constrained to using standard form factor
parts while a large scale manufacturer has the resources to custom design
things in order to optimize the overall system. An example of that might be
Compaq and their use of custom case layouts employing internal ducting to
cool the system with a single, quiet, fan vs the typical multi-fan
configuration home builders usually end up with.

On the other hand, the home builder can do things that are simply not
available on the typical 'consumer' PC, like water cooling and
overclocking. In those situations there isn't usually an alternative; you
either build it yourself or you don't get it.

 

[BigJim]

Oh yea I forgot, if you can't fix it don't build it.
You get no or very little support from the vendors you
purchase the components from.

 

[Fitz]

The absence of unwanted software is a big part of building a home machine to
me. Not only do I get
to choose the specific hardware (which gives me control over
quality/quantity/speed and to some extent, price), but I also don't have to
tolerate or spend time removing AOL/Real Player, etc- I choose the "garbage"
to put on the computer.
I upgrade when it's feasible (replaced ATI9800Pro with GeForce 6600GT OC and
put the Pro in wife's machine, replaced Plextor 708A with 716A for dual
layer capability), but about every three years I start from scratch.

Fitz

 

[johns]

I'm a tech, so when I build a home system, I get twice the
machine at half the price, and my software license costs
go directly to what I want or need .. like XP Pro and Office.
I only build machines that I am able to test before I buy,
so I get past the sales hype ... and also past the user hype
when someone claims they have a really great system,
only it behaves in ways they ain't tellin' ... and it is impossible
to upgrade. Right now, I have about $950 in this system:
AMD64 Athlon 3000+
Gigabyte mobo with nVidia3 chipset
2 gig ddr400
ATI 9800 Pro 128
Antec SLK1650B psupply 450watt
usb keybd-mouse, 3D joystick, flop, Iomega zip 250
front connector panel for ALL connections for testing and play
Creative sound card and system, big base, 2 stereo wall mounted
DVD, cdrw combo, 160 gig SATA 8msec, 160 gig usb Maxtor
Viewsonic LCD 19inch 4 msec .. DVI input
Hauppauge pvr 350 with cable TV in, FM radio, and OTA rf antenna
DSL
OS WinXP Pro, Office Pro, PowerDVD, McAffee AV, Postini,

System runs clean and fast. Drives are imaged to USB drive and my
games look good and run well with no lockups or stuttering. Cable
TV is really sharp. Web is well defended. Video and digital camera
is simple to download and archive. Email .. no spam. Scanner and
color printer are usb, and both work without problems at all. Colors
in my games look like movies with FPS in the 50s average. No
smearing on LCD 4 msec monitor. There is no way a commercial
PC meets these standards in every respect. There may be a single
better item, but no way is it as well integrated and functional. I have
priced out an equivalent Dell system, and it would cost me $2700,
not include the PVR 350, or the usb backup drive, or DSL, or 3d
joystick, and their best LCD monitor is 8 msec .. but good. And,
I suspect that the difference between my system, and the Dell
is the profit margin.

johns

 

[Fitz]

Oops, a GeForce 6800GT OC, which probably makes a little more sense.

Fitz

 

[John Doe]

It's really just about assembling prebuilt parts. The most value
added by the "home-builder" is in choosing the parts.

And that can be as complex as you want it to be. I agree, that's the
most valuable part of building my own computer.

There can be some skill in troubleshooting any faulty components.

Sometimes making things work together (configuring the system)
requires lots of skill, especially since it gets into
software/Windows.

I once built a metal detector. I bought each individual capacitor
and resistor etc and actually soldered it together, and I even
made the case from the sheet metal of an old washing machine.
To me, that was building.

You are talking about a simple device, relatively speaking. Personal
computers have exceeded the first supercomputers.

Have fun.

 

[Bill D.]

Just answering the subject line question is OK with me, but some
specific questions with my (answers) are below.

Normally means a few truckloads of wood and a shitload of nails.


Sorry, you left the door open.

How much do you know about software?
(Very little I don't know about using Windows. There are lots of
applications I don't know specifically, but most have something to
do with the Windows interface and file management)

What do you use your homebuilt PC for?
(It does whatever I want it to do. Dabbling with Electronic Design
Automation EDA was the most interesting early on and the first
specific reason I had to acquire a PC. Currently practicing
dictation and voice automation, sometimes horribly frustrating.
Gaming, of course. Communications, USENET and instant messaging, but
very little e-mail which consist mainly of store receipts and spam
nowadays)

How often do you buy new hardware for your computer?
(As often as possible, maybe once every two months now that I am
about at the price/value cutoff point, always lagging behind
state-of-the-art)

Generally speaking, does "homebuilt" mean you buy all the parts at
once and build or does it mean you continuously build your computer
replacing parts?
(I continuously build, but one person's opinion does not make a
definition, and maybe it includes both and maybe it includes other
ideas... whatever)

--
"ACK",
Bill D.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
" Now just look..... they're burning the `Porta-Potties' "
........ OPUS

 

[Pelysma]

Just answering the subject line question is OK with me, but some
specific questions with my (answers) are below.

How much do you know about software?

I've just completed two years of software engineering technology at a
community college, so I know a little bit about a lot of things. I can write
a program in VB.NET or a simpler one in C++, but the more I know, the more I
become aware of not knowing.

What do you use your homebuilt PC for?

Big question because my homebuilt PCs are of two broad types. I built a new
one for my son out of "new" (slightly dated but NIB) parts and he uses it
primarily for games like City of Villains. I have several -- currently
three -- old computers that I cut and paste constantly from salvaged parts
that I like to play with and experiment with; the hardware is the message.
All three are in the 400 MHz range, running W95, W98, and ME. (One of these
will soon be converted to Linux, but regrettably they're not fast enough for
Tux Racer. )

There is one "storebought" Dell P4 in this household that the whole family
uses for email, surfing, Visual Studio, Photoshop, and music. I try to keep
the lid on it as much as possible and have only opened it to add memory and
remove dust.

How often do you buy new hardware for your computer?

Not often. Last year at tax time I spent $800 for parts to build my son's
machine, and we bought him more memory for Christmas, but otherwise the old
machines are all salvaged or given to me out of retirement. The W98
PIII/450 machine I'm using right now is the morph of one I had built for me
in 1997 -- every single part has been replaced, one or two at a time.

Generally speaking, does "homebuilt" mean you buy all the parts at
once and build or does it mean you continuously build your computer
replacing parts?

Well, I've described two patterns that I think are both valid: built from
bought parts for economy and personal taste, and scrounged together from all
over and continuously improved with bits and pieces. A third pattern would
be built from cutting-edge parts, overclocked and tweaked, customized, for
the purpose of getting more computer than you could buy off the shelf.
"Homebuilt" to me mostly means assembled from the ground up, though, as
opposed to continuous repair/upgrade.

 

[jaster]

I've just completed two years of software engineering technology at a
community college, so I know a little bit about a lot of things. I can
write a program in VB.NET or a simpler one in C++, but the more I know,
the more I become aware of not knowing.


Big question because my homebuilt PCs are of two broad types. I built a
new one for my son out of "new" (slightly dated but NIB) parts and he uses
it primarily for games like City of Villains. I have several --
currently three -- old computers that I cut and paste constantly from
salvaged parts that I like to play with and experiment with; the hardware
is the message. All three are in the 400 MHz range, running W95, W98, and
ME. (One of these will soon be converted to Linux, but regrettably
they're not fast enough for Tux Racer. )

There is one "storebought" Dell P4 in this household that the whole family
uses for email, surfing, Visual Studio, Photoshop, and music. I try to
keep the lid on it as much as possible and have only opened it to add
memory and remove dust.

Just being nosey, so why is everyone using the Dell P4 for surfing,
email, music and not using the other 400s individually?

Small footprint Linux installs with gui, Firefox, Thunderbird, Kaffeine,
Mplayer, Xine, Xmms would run fine on the old hardware for surfing, email
and audio/video. VS/PS only on the Dell though Gimp is PS like.

http://www.distrowatch.org and http://www.linuxiso.org

games: http://happypenguin.org

 

[Pelysma]

Just being nosey, so why is everyone using the Dell P4 for surfing,
email, music and not using the other 400s individually?

Nosey? No, just sociable and maybe a little Linux-promotional. ;-)

They pretty much claim it as the "family" computer and don't share my love
of tweaking and fiddling. However, the computer I'm on right now, the W98
machine, sits next to it and becomes the "overflow" whenever somebody's
using the Dell. It actually does a couple of things the Dell doesn't
(software to log on to my wife's organizational email account, for
instance), and is also fitted with an SCSI bus and two old SCSI hard drives
full of mp3 files. It has a huge old CRT monitor that's not too bright or
sharp anymore, but my daughter loves it.

I don't permit file sharing programs on the Dell, either, so this one gets
that traffic.

The other two, in the garage, are my territory and nobody touches them or
wants to. That would be a K6-2/400 running W95OSR2 and a PIII/450 running
ME.

Small footprint Linux installs with gui, Firefox, Thunderbird, Kaffeine,
Mplayer, Xine, Xmms would run fine on the old hardware for surfing, email
and audio/video. VS/PS only on the Dell though Gimp is PS like.

I'm headed in that direction with the other PIII/400. As I may have said
upthread, it's fine for Mandrake and Mozilla, but doesn't seem to be fast
enough for Tux Racer.

 

[Pelysma]

The W98
PIII/450 machine I'm using right now

Strictly for the sake of accuracy, that's wrong. This is a PII/400. The ME
machine in the garage has the PIII. It was on my mind because I just
replaced the mobo and cpu on that one; it had been the MSI board and K6-2
400. That mobo was getting flakier and flakier; the USB ports and ISA slots
didn't work, therefore neither did the ISA Sound Blaster or the USB mouse.
Now they work.

Here's an interesting question. On the PII/400 and K6-2/400, when I
installed Mandrake Linux, the OS ran fine but Tux Racer would not go. I used
to occupy myself by the hour with it a couple of years ago using a 733
Celeron that I gave to my older son, and that just doesn't seem to be that
much faster. Will the PIII be more likely to support Tux Racer than a PII
of similar clock speed?

~thinking I may be up late tonight~

 

[jaster]

Strictly for the sake of accuracy, that's wrong. This is a PII/400. The
ME machine in the garage has the PIII. It was on my mind because I just
replaced the mobo and cpu on that one; it had been the MSI board and
K6-2 400. That mobo was getting flakier and flakier; the USB ports and
ISA slots didn't work, therefore neither did the ISA Sound Blaster or
the USB mouse. Now they work.

Here's an interesting question. On the PII/400 and K6-2/400, when I
installed Mandrake Linux, the OS ran fine but Tux Racer would not go. I
used to occupy myself by the hour with it a couple of years ago using a
733 Celeron that I gave to my older son, and that just doesn't seem to
be that much faster. Will the PIII be more likely to support Tux Racer
than a PII of similar clock speed?

~thinking I may be up late tonight~

Honestly, I gave up on Tux a long time ago. My PIII-933, 512 ram, RH/FC1
with i810 video couldn't run it well and neither would my XP 2000, 512,
gf4200-128, FC1or 2, always choppy play. I don't even install it anymore.
I play Mahjongg and Tetravix, GL-117 runs fine on XP2000 Suse. One day
I'll install Nexuiz 3-D FPS.

The PIII450 is faster than the PII400, the 450 I think was one of the
great overclockers at the time.

Some links if you're interested:
http://www.overclockers.com/articles21/
http://www.ocinside.de/index_e.html?/html/workshop/socketa/xp_painting.html
http://discussions.hardwarecentral.com/archive/index.php/f-16-p-2.html
(#397)

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Honestly, I gave up on Tux a long time ago. My PIII-933, 512 ram,
RH/FC1 with i810 video couldn't run it well and neither would my XP
2000, 512, gf4200-128, FC1or 2, always choppy play.

It is a game that requires a 3d card, so no surprise with the onboard
graphics being no good.
However, it should run smooth as ice with a gf4200, so it looks like you
didn't have the proper driver installed.
You can get it fromn the Nvidia site.

Regards

Martin

 

[jaster]

It is a game that requires a 3d card, so no surprise with the onboard
graphics being no good.
However, it should run smooth as ice with a gf4200, so it looks like you
didn't have the proper driver installed. You can get it fromn the Nvidia
site.

Regards

Martin

Thanks but the i810 video chipset does support 3D and RH/FC released
fixes around then for the i810 3D. But let me try it again on this Suse
9.3, gf4200 since it's part of the Suse package and I know I have the
nVidia driver with 3D enabled. I'll let you know if it works.

 

[Pelysma]

It is a game that requires a 3d card, so no surprise with the onboard
graphics being no good.

Ding!
*Having a Homer Simpson moment of realization*
now we go play...

Got a 3DFX Voodoo card in the garage that I gave up on and threw in the bin
because I couldn't find a driver for it. Have you been to
Voodoodrivers.com? Like walking into a village where everybody died and the
hyenas took over.

Anyway, I'm thinking that the Mandrake installation set might have a driver
for it.