OT: graphics colour management ?

[RJK]

Can anyone help me sort out this hideously complicated field ?

All I wanted to do was set my graphics software to print out a picture, just
as it appears on screen !

I find there is an ICC file for my NEC Multisync FE750 monitor, and there is
an ICM profile that was dropped into my XP platform by my Epson R300 printer
installation. I had a rummage with Google and found that people were
talking about the R300 printing prints that were a little too dark, and
that new printer drivers from Epson would sort that out.

I've gathered that one does NOT wat to send a "colour profile" WITH an image
as it's sent to the printer, if one has ICM "on" in the printer software, or
you get "double" colour "correction/translations" going on which mucks up
the print - too dark.

Now I find that there are utilities all over the place to help one get the
"gamma/screen brightness" ratio properly set, and there is an LUT chart
living in there somewhere - something to do with the graphics card ....and
that some gamma settings even live in the system registry !! I tried
digging into my Nvidia graphics card settings and found there was a place
where one could select a profile for my NEC monitor, from the profiles that
have been dropped into XP's "Color" directory - I selected it for fun and my
screen was so bright it was almost completley bleached out and unusable, so
I set it back to default !

....and there is a colour workspace in Adobe PhotoShop that will, or will
not, (depending on how it's set), make use of the ICM profile assigned to
the "colour workspace," and will, or will not, (depending on how it's set),
send that along to the printer - and that that can affect how the picture
prints - and one can end up with a horrible print if application and printer
driver are both doing colour correction / tranaslation.

JeeeeeZUSSSS ...I only wanted to print a bloody picture !!

regards, Richard

 

[Don Phillipson]

All I wanted to do was set my graphics software to print out a picture, just
as it appears on screen !

1. Save an image in memory: usually done by
Alt + Print Screen.
2. Start up your graphics software: make a new
blank file (size? dot density ?) Put it into it from
memory your saved image, usually by / Edit / Paste.
3. Print this file (size ? dot density ?)

I've gathered that one does NOT wat to send a "colour profile" WITH an image
as it's sent to the printer, if one has ICM "on" in the printer software, or
you get "double" colour "correction/translations" going on which mucks up
the print - too dark.

Unless you have confirmed this prints your pictures
too dark, stick with default settings.

Now I find that there are utilities all over the place to help one get the
"gamma/screen brightness" ratio properly set, and there is an LUT chart
living in there somewhere - something to do with the graphics card ....and
that some gamma settings even live in the system registry !! I tried
digging into my Nvidia graphics card settings and found there was a place
where one could select a profile for my NEC monitor, from the profiles that
have been dropped into XP's "Color" directory - I selected it for fun and my
screen was so bright it was almost completley bleached out and unusable, so
I set it back to default !

If you want to customize gamma settings read a manual
first. Several Photoshop manuals describe gamma.

 

[Sally]

Been there...found no answer either. I would love to see a easy solution
posted here.

 

[Miss Perspicacia Tick]

Been there...found no answer either. I would love to see a easy
solution posted here.

Well that ain't gonna happen, because there isn't one. If you want your
image to exactly match what you see on your monitor then you're going to
have to be prepared to spend a few ££££s on calibration equipment - you not
only need to calibrate your monitor, but your printer and, if you have them,
your scanner and camera too. Each will require a specialist calibration
package - you could be looking at a couple of thousand if you want to do it
properly.

 

[D.Currie]

Been there...found no answer either. I would love to see a easy solution
posted here.

There is no easy answer, since your printer can't actually "see" the output
of your monitor the way you do. And unless your monitor is in a room where
the lighting is always the same, you don't see it the same each time either.
So if you're at home and the room has a window, the amount and quality of
natural light is going to affect what the image on the monitor looks like.

About the closest you're going to get is to print something out, then fiddle
with the monitor setting to make the monitor match what you've printed.
Chances are that once you've done that, other things probably won't look all
that pleasing...and if the light changes in the room it's going to look
different to you, and your printout isn't going to match nearly as well.

Oh yeah -- and different programs and different printer drivers and
settings, and different papers are all going to change the way the print
comes out.

So there is no easy answer.

 

[Bob I]

Hire someone to do it for you.
NEXT

 

[RJK]

Thanx Don, Sally, Miss Perspicacia and D.Currie, ....it's only snaphots I
was wanting to print Bob I !

I found http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html#gammachart
which seems quite good, and will set Gamma in registry, though I haven't let
it do that yet because I still trying to work through just how various
settings should be set. There are so many of them ! ...not sure about all
this Gamma stuff i.e. the 1.0 level in Nvidia settings is not really 1.0 and
I should beadjusting to 2.2 ...etc.

The Epson R300 *.icm profile seems quite good, and indeed I have made
settings in Adobe Photoshop 7, as in
http://ps-posters.waite.adelaide.edu.au/guides/Managing Colour When Printing.pdf
and I get good prints.

http://www.freecolormanagement.com/color/index.html looks like it might be
worth looking into.

.....anyway, along the way I've found LOTS that I don't really want to know
about but, it seems I'm going to have to learn it !!!. e.g. What's the
monitor color profile for ? ...it doesn't seem to be used by Adobe.

I've set my monitor to 6500 degrees, apparantly that's better for photos,
....and I think I'll leave my settings in adobe Photoshop settings alone
while my prints are coming out properly ! When I start fiddling with them I
start to lose the plot and have to keep referring to
http://ps-posters.waite.adelaide.edu.au/guides/Managing Colour When Printing.pdf
to try and grasp what's going where !

regards, Richard

 

[RJK]

I'd guessed that really, but, still I want an easy solution. I wonder if I
could borrow Joe 90's headgear !

regards, Richard

....annoyed that I'm going to have to spend AGES learning a load of new
stuff, BEFORE being able to do what I wnated to do in the first place !
....but, then, that's always been the nature of PC's !

 

[Bob I]

My reply was to "Sally". She wanted "real easy". I suspect you missed
that branch in the thread.

 

[RJK]

After serious rummaging with Google, and reading through lots of web pages
devoted to "colour management," all dealing with *.icc and *.icm profiles
and how to tweak them, and how to adjust monitor gamma etc. - I DON'T
UNDERSTAND IT !

I cannot "picture" in my mind just what's happening. i.e. I can't determine
what colour profile is being applied to what !

e.g. in Corel Photopaint 10 there is a lovely "colour management" screen
where one can switch on and off items like, "simulate printer output", and
one can select the R300 / *.icm printer profile for the printer, and just
what the central flower thingy where one can select something to do with
Kodak or Microsoft ICM, has got to do with it all - I haven't a clue
....which one do I choose ? ...do I really need to choose one or the other ?

Then there's Adobe Photoshop where one can select a profile for the "working
space," and one web tutorial advised me to select the "Adobe 98" profile for
it. Now ! in Adobe, one can choose to strip away the sRGB colour profile
that my camera attaches to each picture, and I can "assign" a colour profile
of my choice e.g. my Epson R300.icm profile, or in Adobe I can select
"printer colour management" in which case Adobe doesn't pass a colour
profile to the printer along with the image - in which case I have to have
"ICM" radio dotted in my Epson printer driver software, and NOT have the "No
colour adjustment" check box ticked ... and so on and so on.

Having said all that, I wonder what on earth the "monitor profile" is for
!?!?! ...it's called "NEC MultiSync FE750 @ 9300"
which doesn't bode well ! ...because lots of the web pages I've looked at
advise me to set monitor colour temperature to 6500 degrees kelvin because
it's "warmer" and 9300 degrees is too cold. "NEC MultiSync FE750 @ 9300"
doesn't seem to have a use and if I select it colours look wrong. A web
tutorial mentioned that Adobe "knows" what sort of monitor I have and
adjusts colour accordingly.

SURELY somebody has written a tutorial that explains how to set things up,
and explains in a simple fashion what's happening with all these colour
"spaces" or "areas" as seems to be the method of attempting to explain the
mess ! ?

....anyway I give up !

regards, Richard

 

[RJK]

Forget that post !! ...just cracked it all ....several pennies all dropped
into place -
....am now printing stunning prints that equate EXACTLY (...well ...I can't
see any difference), with what's on screen.

...it's SOOO nice to have control over things and to know exactly what's
doing what, and what's going where ...and why it's going there !

I'm SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO happy

regards, Richard

 

[Sally]

So...are you going to share the secret with the rest of us ?
Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[RJK]

oops! ..sorry about that ...posting a "biggy" twice.

regards, Richard


Hello Sally, ....well ...I could try but, it might not make much sense. As
I said - "several pennies dropped into place" - not all of them. I haven't
figured out Corel Photopaint settings yet - the problem with Corel is that
colour management/correction seems to be happening twice, with no way to
"understandably" control how colour profiles are applied in Corel
Photopaint. The "colour managment" screen in Corel Photopaint looks
fantastic - it allows one to select the Windows or Kodak colour management
system and select profiles for all your hardware but, I'm blowed if I could
get it set properly ! Even choosing Epsons' "No Colour Adjustment" and
major fiddling with Corel's colour management settings - I couldn't get it
right - prints were noticeably darker than that on screen.

Here's a short list of things that I've decided - (rightly or wrongly!) need
to be done to achieve predictable printout using Adobe PhotoShop 7.0 and an
Epson R300 (6 ink cartridge) photo printer. (by the way - the latest
printer driver has to be collected from Epson's web-site, and installed.
Lots of people on web discussion forums were talking about prints from this
printer being too dark. Indeed, I installed the new drivers and re-printed
a picture using the same application and printer driver software settings,
and it was noticeable lighter.

The R300 icm profile/file supplied with my R300 printer was EE261__1.ICM -
"Stylus Photo R300 R310 Series"
After upgrading from Epson, you get an EE263__1.ICM - "Stylus Photo R300
Series"
....(the profile names in quotes, are the ones that show in graphics software
settings).

Create your own ICC colour profile - YOU MUST set correct brightness,
contrast and gamma, AFTER your monitor has been running for an hour or more.
Use http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html#gammachart 's
"QuickGamma," then run through the Adobe Gamma utility in Control Panel, and
save it with a name that's easily spottable among the many in Adobe
PhotoShop 7's "Workspace" list. Ignore Adobes gamma setting control - it's
not very good.

In Adobe | Edit | Colour Settings | "Working Spaces" | RGB select your
freshly made, and saved, ICC profile.
On the same screen set "Colour management policies" | RGB to "Convert to
working RGB"
and again on the same settings screen, set "Conversion options engine" to
"Adobe ACE," and the slot beneath it to "Perceptual" or "Relative
Colometric," I couldn't see the difference between "Perceptual" or
"Relative Colometric," when printing.

Lastly, select ICM in the "Advanced" settings in your Printer driver
"preferred" settings, and make sure the "No colour correction" is NOT
ticked.

I think that's it !

regards, Richard

 

[Sally]

Richard...thank you so much. That info. will certainly help me out!
I print photos using an Epson Stylus Photo 825 - it's starting to show
it's age. Are you happy with the Epson 300?
I have been looking at printer reviews: and that model is under
consideration......along with some of the newer Canon models.

I am going to spend some time now with your recommendations.

Thanks again.

Sally

 

[Rock]

oops! ..sorry about that ...posting a "biggy" twice.

regards, Richard

Make that three times. You didn't snip it when quoting yourself.

 

[RJK]

I'm sure you're wrong, I only did the RTF format one - with *.jpg - twice -
which is what the 'sorry' was for. The "Ooops" one was plain text - which
is my usual. ...don't you jsut love my grammar ? !

regards, Richard