OT: Forums versus newsgroups - can you indulge a SBS MVP by answeringsome questions?


S

Susan Bradley

As an SBSer I hope you'll indulge me in a fishing expedition on forums
versus newsgroups.

I need to pick your brain a bit if you don't mind? Can I ask some
fishing expedition questions because I want to see if my thoughts are on
track with others. Just want to see if my thoughts are out in left
field or what. I know why I like what I like but I want to know from
someone else what they like and why.


Do you like forums over newsgroups and if so why?

Do you like newsgroups over forums and if so why?

How did you first find the newsgroups in the first place?

How do you get here now? Web browser or nntp reader?

Why do you choose web browser versus nntp reader?

What makes you keep coming back? Habit?

If you prefer forums what would make you change to another community
platform?

If you prefer newsgroups what would make you change to another community
platform?

Do you prefer another community platform over forums AND newsgroups? If
so, what platform/venue is it? (and if you say twitter I'll bonk ya on
the head ;-)

Do you know about the NNTP bridge to make a transition to allow nntp
like access to a web forum?

The NNTP Bridge is an application created and maintained by the
Microsoft Forum team. This application emulates an NNTP server to the
extent of allowing NNTP newsreader clients to read data from and write
data to Microsoft forums. It is a custom solution built on top of the
standard NNTP protocol and expects communication from an NNTP newsreader
client; therefore it does not necessarily support all NNTP command
input. The NNTP Bridge acts as a medium of data transportation between
the newsreader client and Microsoft forums. As a result, the user’s
experience may change depending on the newsreader client.



The NNTP Bridge officially targets the following three newsreader clients:

· Windows Mail

· Windows Live Mail

· Outlook Express



While other clients were also being tested during the development
process (including Forte Agent and Thunderbird), bugs not pertaining to
the three targeted clients are not guaranteed to be fixed at this time.



The installation of the application and the limited UI of the
application itself (basically a start button, a stop button, and WLID
sign in page) are only available in English. However, when the Bridge
is running, you are free to connect to forums of any language and
read/post in any language you select.






The NNTP Bridge Client v1.0 Release is available via the Microsoft
Connect site. Please refer to the following steps to download and
install it and then configure the newsreader client.



NOTE: The NNTP Bridge team is accepting your feedback directly on the
Connect portal. Providing your thoughts and comments there will route
your requests directly to the Dev team.



1. Download the utility by following the instructions at
http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums (NNTP Bridge Home Page on
Connect).



2. Install the NNTP bridge by following the steps at
http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/content/content.aspx?ContentID=13820.





3. Configure your newsreader client:



3.1). On successful starting of the NNTP Bridge application, start your
nntp news reader client, ie., Windows Mail.

3.2). Create a newsgroup account, and type 127.0.0.1 as the NNTP server
and 119 as the port. With that information it should be able to connect
to your local NNTP Bridge and successfully list all the forums.



3.3). Select the partner forum(s) you are interested in.






Besides, some more resources are for your reference:



NNTP Bridge Troubleshooting Guide

http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/content/content.aspx?ContentID=15478



NNTP Bridge Frequently Asked Questions

http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/content/content.aspx?ContentID=13816
 
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E

EN59CVH

The NNTP Bridge officially targets the following three newsreader clients:

· Windows Mail

· Windows Live Mail

· Outlook Express

I am using NNTP bridge Version 1 (on OL Express) recently issued.
Fantastic but I have to keep downloading all the messages again after
every boot. There is a lot of wok to be done on this product.

Download link is here:
<http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums>

hth
 
L

Leythos

As an SBSer I hope you'll indulge me in a fishing expedition on forums
versus newsgroups.

I need to pick your brain a bit if you don't mind? Can I ask some
fishing expedition questions because I want to see if my thoughts are on
track with others. Just want to see if my thoughts are out in left
field or what. I know why I like what I like but I want to know from
someone else what they like and why.


Do you like forums over newsgroups and if so why?

Forums are almost always a terrible source of Information, limited in
scope, and mostly visited by non-technical people. It's easy to find a
forum, usenet requires more effort on the part of people.
Do you like newsgroups over forums and if so why?

See above
How did you first find the newsgroups in the first place?

Been using Usenet since 84, it was around before the Web.
How do you get here now? Web browser or nntp reader?

Always use a Usenet Client via NNTP, hate web interfaces.
Why do you choose web browser versus nntp reader?

We is a security risk, doesn't have the same features, you only get what
the website allows...
What makes you keep coming back? Habit?

Usenet is a great resource for many things and you learn of new trends
from all over the world in one place - I return for that and to give
back to the community that has provided me with so much information.
If you prefer forums what would make you change to another community
platform?
N/A

If you prefer newsgroups what would make you change to another community
platform?

When Heck freezes over I'll stop using Usenet.
Do you prefer another community platform over forums AND newsgroups? If
so, what platform/venue is it? (and if you say twitter I'll bonk ya on
the head ;-)
No


Do you know about the NNTP bridge to make a transition to allow nntp
like access to a web forum?

Don't like WEB at all, to restrictive. Web interfaces to Usenet clutter
Google searches for technical issues.

[snip]
NOTE: The NNTP Bridge team is accepting your feedback directly on the
Connect portal. Providing your thoughts and comments there will route
your requests directly to the Dev team.

Stick with Usenet and you'll be far better off.
NNTP Bridge Troubleshooting Guide

If you stick with something that works, since it's been around longer
than the web, you don't need a guide.
 
B

Bruce Chambers

Susan said:
As an SBSer I hope you'll indulge me in a fishing expedition on forums
versus newsgroups.

I need to pick your brain a bit if you don't mind? Can I ask some
fishing expedition questions because I want to see if my thoughts are on
track with others. Just want to see if my thoughts are out in left
field or what. I know why I like what I like but I want to know from
someone else what they like and why.


Do you like forums over newsgroups and if so why?

No. Web-based forums are too slow and cumbersome. HTML permits way
too many useless, childish distractions like smiley faces, animations,
animations, pictures, etc., as well as potentially harboring malicious code.

Do you like newsgroups over forums and if so why?

Certainly. Usenet was around before the web. It's plain text, so much
safer and "eye-candy" free, as well as being faster. Plain text is all
that's needed.

How did you first find the newsgroups in the first place?


Too long ago; don't really remember. Learned it along with Gopher,
Veronica, etc. I do recall that the web was exceedingly "primitive" at
the time.

How do you get here now? Web browser or nntp reader?

NNTP Bridge. Otherwise, I'd not be here at all.
Why do you choose web browser versus nntp reader?


N/A


What makes you keep coming back? Habit?

To help people, preferably teaching them to learn to help themselves,
as well.

If you prefer forums what would make you change to another community
platform?

N/A

If you prefer newsgroups what would make you change to another community
platform?


Maybe if hell were to freeze over.... NAH!

Do you prefer another community platform over forums AND newsgroups? If
so, what platform/venue is it? (and if you say twitter I'll bonk ya on
the head ;-)

N/A

Do you know about the NNTP bridge to make a transition to allow nntp
like access to a web forum?

Obviously. It's slower and less convenient that Usenet, but it does at
least make participating in web-based forums tolerable.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot
 
B

Bo Berglund

NNTP Bridge. Otherwise, I'd not be here at all.

I absolutely *hate* the web based forums, which decide how much info
to show (too little) and are impossibly slow. No possibility to
instantly jump from one post to another and too much wasted space on
screen....

So I would not even consider visiting one unless forced by a small
firearm in my back.

But your comment about the NNTP Bridge made me curious...
Does it really work with any news client or do you have to use one of
the Microsoft email clients with built-in meagre news support like OL
EXpress and the like?

I use a *real* news reader (Forte Agent) myself. Is it possible to
make that work with the HTTP Bridge thingie to access the web forums
*without* the web part???
 
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P

Paul

Susan said:
As an SBSer I hope you'll indulge me in a fishing expedition on forums
versus newsgroups.

I need to pick your brain a bit if you don't mind? Can I ask some
fishing expedition questions because I want to see if my thoughts are on
track with others. Just want to see if my thoughts are out in left
field or what. I know why I like what I like but I want to know from
someone else what they like and why.


Do you like forums over newsgroups and if so why?

Do you like newsgroups over forums and if so why?

There are a couple aspects of web forums I dislike.

1) Web site owner can delete the entire forum, without
notice or consultation. This happened to the site at
Matrox, ViaArena, and the early Asus forum. Many operators
also don't feel the need to port discussion threads previously
posted, when changing forum software ("too much work to move the
posts"). In other words, we're at the mercy of centralized
storage and narrow thinking ("how can I make a buck by
doing this").

By using "norobots", a web site owner can prevent archive
engines on the web, from keeping a copy of the site, in case
it goes missing.

2) Web site design, and the concept that the web site owner knows best.
Some web forums have absolutely gag-inducing interfaces. How about
a web site search box, where you have to type a Captcha before a
search can be executed, only to have the Captcha be denied on each
attempt ? How about "type your answer into this tiny box" ?

3) On sites like a Dell or HP forum, if the mods feel customer posts
are hitting a little too close to the truth about a product, they
delete the posts.

USENET newsgroups are preferred, because nobody owns them and they are
decentralized. Google archives them, but anyone owning some terabyte
sized disk drives can do it if they want too.

I don't think anybody answering questions, wants that answer to only
be heard by the single person posting the question. They also want
people who have the same question later, to be able to find the answer
with a search engine. And USENET is still (barely) meeting the second
objective.

Paul
 
K

Ken Blake, MVP

I absolutely *hate* the web based forums, which decide how much info
to show (too little) and are impossibly slow. No possibility to
instantly jump from one post to another and too much wasted space on
screen....

So I would not even consider visiting one unless forced by a small
firearm in my back.

But your comment about the NNTP Bridge made me curious...
Does it really work with any news client



Yes, but it doesn't work perfectly with any of them.

or do you have to use one of
the Microsoft email clients with built-in meagre news support like OL
EXpress and the like?


It doesn't work perfectly with any of those either.

I use a *real* news reader (Forte Agent) myself. Is it possible to
make that work with the HTTP Bridge thingie to access the web forums
*without* the web part???



Yes, but it works with many more problems with Agent than with other
newsreaders. I use Agent for everything but the NNTP Bridge; I use
Windows Live Mail for that, since it works *much* better for it than
Agent.
 
B

Bruce Chambers

Bo said:
I absolutely *hate* the web based forums, which decide how much info
to show (too little) and are impossibly slow. No possibility to
instantly jump from one post to another and too much wasted space on
screen....

So I would not even consider visiting one unless forced by a small
firearm in my back.

But your comment about the NNTP Bridge made me curious...
Does it really work with any news client or do you have to use one of
the Microsoft email clients with built-in meagre news support like OL
EXpress and the like?

I use a *real* news reader (Forte Agent) myself. Is it possible to
make that work with the HTTP Bridge thingie to access the web forums
*without* the web part???


I don't know if the NNTP Bridge will work with _any_ news reader, but I
use it with Thunderbird. From the FAQ:

Which NNTP newsreader clients does the NNTP Bridge support?

Our priority is to support Outlook Express, Windows Mail, and Windows
Live Mail. However, we have also been testing the Bridge application
against Thunderbird and Forte Agent.

Online Forums Connection Microsoft Connect
https://connect.microsoft.com/site927


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot
 
Ad

Advertisements

N

NDB

Susan said:
As an SBSer I hope you'll indulge me in a fishing expedition on forums
versus newsgroups.

I need to pick your brain a bit if you don't mind? Can I ask some
fishing expedition questions because I want to see if my thoughts are on
track with others. Just want to see if my thoughts are out in left
field or what. I know why I like what I like but I want to know from
someone else what they like and why.


Do you like forums over newsgroups and if so why?

No, the interface is clumsy and slow and horrible
Do you like newsgroups over forums and if so why?

Yes, the interface is much cleaner and simpler in newsgroups, and you
have much more control over how much of what kinds of information tracks
you leave
How did you first find the newsgroups in the first place?

Word of mouth
How do you get here now? Web browser or nntp reader?
Thunderbird

Why do you choose web browser versus nntp reader?

I don't
What makes you keep coming back? Habit?

Well, many things I guess. I'm a tech, so reading technology groups
interests me, I like helping people when I can, and I learn alot of new
things reading newsgroups.
If you prefer forums what would make you change to another community
platform?

If you prefer newsgroups what would make you change to another community
platform?
Nothing

Do you prefer another community platform over forums AND newsgroups? If
so, what platform/venue is it? (and if you say twitter I'll bonk ya on
the head ;-)

IRC is pretty good too
 

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