Open source in the national interest

I

imhotep

"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is
an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo.

So states a report from the Department of Defense's Advanced Systems and
Concepts Office, which recommends that the DoD move to a roadmap to adopt
open source and open standards, maintaining that such a move is not only in
the US national interest, but in the interests of US national security.

The 79-page report proposes that the DoD adopt what it calls "open
technology development," which incorporates open source methodologies and
open standards, but also takes into account the fact that the DoD has
systems that it would rather keep secret."

From:
http://www.businessreviewonline.com/os/archives/2006/07/open_source_in.html

Imhotep
 
G

Guest

Besides the fact that this is off-topic for this newsgroup, something that is
considered rude, I'm not sure what exactly you think we here can do to help
out in this area.
 
T

Tom Willett

Karl: As you know, imhotep loves to troll the MS newsgroups with off topic
material, and anything he/she/it can find to defame MS.

Tom
 
I

imhotep

Besides the fact that this is off-topic for this newsgroup, something that
is considered rude,

Off topic? This *is* a security group, right?
I'm not sure what exactly you think we here can do to
help out in this area.

Help out? This was an informative security article that I chose to share on
a security newsgroup. You guys do share informative security articles
right?
 
I

imhotep

Tom said:
Karl: As you know, imhotep loves to troll the MS newsgroups with off
topic material, and anything he/she/it can find to defame MS.

Humm...sharing an informative security article on a security newsgroup
is "trolling". Why don't you stop pointing that hypocritical finger around
and do something good for you: Read something....you just might learn
something new. But again, maybe that is asking too much...

Im
 
J

Joe Richards [MVP]

Sorry for some reason Thunderbird isn't showing my previous post and I
see on google that IMHOTEP responded....

Here is the response
Open Source software can be a great thing, however, IMO, it takes an
organized and disciplined company/organization to properly and safely
use it. Having been exposed to many different aspects of the government
and how things are run, I would not recommend open source as they, in
many cases, barely have enough time and resources to be organized enough
to keep closed source running well where they are told exactly what they
need to do.


Well, as someone who worked for the Government for years, I will say they
are often *more* disciplined and organized than 99% of the corporate World.
And Yes, most government agencies are already using open source/open
standards....and those number are growing.

Im




------

I worked directly for Corporate America (Fortune 5) for about 10 years
and for the last couple of years have been doing consulting in one of
the largest IT service companies (Fortune 15) for corporate America
(generally Fortune 100 or larger with 20k+ seats, usually I work with
100k+ to 200k+ seat customers) and the US Government which varies in
size vastly depending on the division. From the many engagements I have
seen, your numbers are way off to the point of ridicule.

As a rule the government is far more unorganized than pretty much ANY
corporate customer I have dealt with. I far prefer going into a
corporation than a government/military engagement because of how bad the
government/military things are generally run combined with how things
are funded. It isn't generally the fault of the engineers/admins, it is
almost always a managerial/bureaucracy issue. The last engagement I had
to go look into a mail environment that never should have gone down was
down for a week because of completely dorked processes and organization
and didn't get straightened out until we came in and started giving step
by step do this and then this instructions.

I have no experience with the Chinese government but from my experiences
with the UK and German governments I would say that the US isn't that
different from other countries in that regard.

As for the German government move to linux, that hasn't been a chatty a
subject since about 2004 when they were getting ready to do it...
Outside of the mainstream I have been hearing that things aren't so
green over there for them which explains a lot of the silence.

The only way I see the US government as a whole will successfully
pulling off Open Source for the platform is if everyone gets together
and works out the standards and then one body is responsible for
dictating what will be run and how and manage the whole patch strategy
as well as prepare and certify the patches for internal use. That isn't
going to happen, the various divisions of the government are like a
bunch of wolverines fighting in a paper sack.


joe


--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net


---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---

http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
 
G

Gerry Hickman

Hi Joe,

The first reply I made to this thread also didn't show up, maybe just a
glitch with the server.
 
I

imhotep

Joe said:
Sorry for some reason Thunderbird isn't showing my previous post and I
see on google that IMHOTEP responded....

Here is the response



Well, as someone who worked for the Government for years, I will say they
are often *more* disciplined and organized than 99% of the corporate
World. And Yes, most government agencies are already using open
source/open standards....and those number are growing.

Im




------

I worked directly for Corporate America (Fortune 5) for about 10 years
and for the last couple of years have been doing consulting in one of
the largest IT service companies (Fortune 15) for corporate America
(generally Fortune 100 or larger with 20k+ seats, usually I work with
100k+ to 200k+ seat customers) and the US Government which varies in
size vastly depending on the division. From the many engagements I have
seen, your numbers are way off to the point of ridicule.

As a rule the government is far more unorganized than pretty much ANY
corporate customer I have dealt with. I far prefer going into a
corporation than a government/military engagement because of how bad the
government/military things are generally run combined with how things
are funded. It isn't generally the fault of the engineers/admins, it is
almost always a managerial/bureaucracy issue. The last engagement I had
to go look into a mail environment that never should have gone down was
down for a week because of completely dorked processes and organization
and didn't get straightened out until we came in and started giving step
by step do this and then this instructions.

Yes, there are many bureaucratic problems when working for the Government.
However, one must not confuse overall organization with bureaucratic
disorganization. What other company do you know that manages that same
amount of money and resources as the US government? I don't care what
fortune-x company you worked for; No one manages those type of resources.
Just the fact you made such an absurd statement is well, foolish.
I have no experience with the Chinese government but from my experiences
with the UK and German governments I would say that the US isn't that
different from other countries in that regard.

Again, yes there are bureaucratic problems with all governments. However,
this is not the topic. The exact statement that was made was:

"...barely have enough time and resources to be organized enough to keep
closed source running well..."

Notice that there was no meantion about bureaucracies. Again, please read
above, name any corporation that can come even close to a government with
regards to the vast amount of resources "under management". Please.
As for the German government move to linux, that hasn't been a chatty a
subject since about 2004 when they were getting ready to do it...
Outside of the mainstream I have been hearing that things aren't so
green over there for them which explains a lot of the silence.

B.S....you know what they say about assumptions?
The only way I see the US government as a whole will successfully
pulling off Open Source for the platform is if everyone gets together
and works out the standards and then one body is responsible for
dictating what will be run and how and manage the whole patch strategy
as well as prepare and certify the patches for internal use. That isn't
going to happen, the various divisions of the government are like a
bunch of wolverines fighting in a paper sack.

What branch of the government did you work for and how long. As I said
before, the branch I worked for has had linux for sometime and are even
increasing the numbers. This is a fact, like it or not.

As far as patches, it is far easier to patch a linux system than a Windows
system. This too is a fact. Do you even have a clue about what you are
talking about????

-- Imhotep
 
I

imhotep

I normally do not double post replies but after reviewing your post I must.
I find your comments about patch management a joke. In the 15 years I have
been working with Unux (Solaris, linux and FreeBSD) and Windows (DOS 2.1
through Windows 2000) I have *NEVER* been burnt by installing a patch on a
UNIX system. That's right, not once. However, patching Windows servers is a
combination of "Cross your fingers and kiss out butt goodbye". Now let's be
honest, the quality of Microsoft patches are simply pathetic. At times, I
am simply at a loss of words, believe it or not, to describe the utter crap
that comes out of Redmond. Most large companies even have to have a patch
monkey team just to test the damn things because Microsoft certainly
hasn't/won't. Now that is a managerial nightmare.

Try this for size, first invest your efforts in designing a real linker for
the MS platform instead of BS'ing people hear with your utter crap. Ah ya,
*OTHER* OSes have had a real linker for what 30 years? Like running
multiple version of you dynamic libraries (DLLs) not a problem for
everything *BUT* Windows...

You seem to try to put down Open Standards/Open Source but what is your
forte? Active Directory? Gee, what is that *really*? Oh yea, Active
Directory was taken from Open Standards wasn't? I believe it is called
LDAP...

....there is nothing worse than a hypocrite my friend, nothing.

-- Imhotep
 

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