onboard VGA port disabled

[NewToFPGA]

I plugged in ATI video card (all-in-wonder) into my PC. When I
plugged in this card, the onboard VGA port seems like got disabled
automatically. Now, I have problem with the ATI video card. I dont
have any video port working.

How do I get out of this problem and start using my computer again.

thanks.

 

[tpow]

I plugged in ATI video card (all-in-wonder) into my PC. When I
plugged in this card, the onboard VGA port seems like got disabled
automatically. Now, I have problem with the ATI video card. I dont
have any video port working.

How do I get out of this problem and start using my computer again.

thanks.

its not one of those cards that requires additional power..........

does it have a socket at the rear end of the card...........if so then you
need to plug a spare 4 pin from psu leads.

 

[NewToFPGA]

The video card is ATI All-in-wonder 9600XT. I dont see in the
instructions asking for additional power supply. There is a wire going
from the video card to the fan on the card.

I see something with 4 pins on the board, these are small pins, does
not seem like one for the psu leads.

It is an AGP card.

 

[tpow]

The video card is ATI All-in-wonder 9600XT. I dont see in the
instructions asking for additional power supply. There is a wire going
from the video card to the fan on the card.

I see something with 4 pins on the board, these are small pins, does
not seem like one for the psu leads.

It is an AGP card.

Yes then NO additional power is required..............exchange the board its
probably faulty or U/S.

 

[RIAA]

I plugged in ATI video card (all-in-wonder) into my PC. When I
plugged in this card, the onboard VGA port seems like got disabled
automatically. Now, I have problem with the ATI video card. I dont
have any video port working.

How do I get out of this problem and start using my computer again.

thanks.

Take out the ATI card and your onboard video will function again.

 

[NewToFPGA]

Take  out the ATI card and your onboard video will function again.

I did that. Still it does not. It seems like I have to enable it in
the BIOS.

 

[Paul]

I did that. Still it does not. It seems like I have to enable it in
the BIOS.

Can you tell us the motherboard make and model number ? Or
if this is a Dell/HP/Gateway/Acer, what is the name and model
number of the computer.

Paul

 

[GT]

I plugged in ATI video card (all-in-wonder) into my PC. When I
plugged in this card, the onboard VGA port seems like got disabled
automatically. Now, I have problem with the ATI video card. I dont
have any video port working.

How do I get out of this problem and start using my computer again.

Remove the broken card, then reset your BIOS by shorting the appropriate
jumper on your motherboard. Check the manual or online for the Reset BIOS
jumper. This will set the defaults in the bios and your onboard GFX will be
active again.

 

[NewToFPGA]

what is the name and model number of the computer.

emachines T2742

 

[Paul]

emachines T2742

There is no AGP slot on an 845GV based board.

http://www.emachines.com/support/product_support.html?cat=Desktops&subcat=T-Series&model=T2742

The AGP slot has a different offset from the computer case, than the
PCI slots, as shown in this example photo below. Which would make it hard to
plug in a card like that. So something doesn't add up here. Maybe there is
a substitute motherboard of some kind in place of the
101220 Seabreeze motherboard ? I think the Seabreeze has three
PCI slots, but I cannot find any pictures worth a damn (i.e. positively
identified as such on a web site, as definitely being from T2742).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/AGP_slot.jpg

This could be the motherboard here. The solder pads for an AGP
slot are present on the motherboard (to allow something other
than an 845GV pin compatible chipset to be used), but there is
no AGP slot soldered on here.

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/7524/seabreeze6qi.jpg

Resetting the BIOS, via the CMOS jumper, would be one way to
restore the BIOS settings to default. One of the defaults would
be to enable the onboard video (at least, if any other video
cards were removed at the time). To clear CMOS safely, the
computer should be unplugged. Then, consult the manual for
the location and recipe for clearing the CMOS. The above
appears to be an Intel inspired motherboard, so it could
well have that three position BIOS jumper.

This is a manual for an Intel 845GVSR, which might look similar
to your motherboard. Page 59 has a three pin jumper, and
maybe the "configure" position is what you'd use to
recover it. I don't really know how the Intel scheme
maps to the method used on other motherboards (which
would be a two pin header instead of three).

http://web.archive.org/web/20051122032956/ftp://download.intel.com/design/motherbd/sr/C4681101.pdf

Anyway, verify what is inside your computer case first, and
see if any of the above rambling makes sense or not.

Paul

 

[NewToFPGA]

Paul,

That was good information you gave. I opened my emachines T2742 and it
has m935g v3.1 mother board in it.

I searched the web and the following link has the motherboard image of
what I have..

http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWeb/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?DetailID=282&MenuID=22&LanID=0


This site tell that it has the following Expansion Slots
1 x AGP 4X
2 x PCI slots
1 x CNR slot

The AGP looks like a universal AGP (there is no division in the
slot).

This site also has a manual. It says that the pin 1-2 need to be short
for clearing the CMOS. I did that.. I dont know what happened .. my pc
is not powering up at all. It seems like a new problem now..

Could it be my power supply now?

 

[Paul]

Paul,

That was good information you gave. I opened my emachines T2742 and it
has m935g v3.1 mother board in it.

I searched the web and the following link has the motherboard image of
what I have..

http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWeb/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?DetailID=282&MenuID=22&LanID=0


This site tell that it has the following Expansion Slots
1 x AGP 4X
2 x PCI slots
1 x CNR slot

The AGP looks like a universal AGP (there is no division in the
slot).

This site also has a manual. It says that the pin 1-2 need to be short
for clearing the CMOS. I did that.. I dont know what happened .. my pc
is not powering up at all. It seems like a new problem now..

Could it be my power supply now?

Two things:

1) Did you follow my suggestion, and unplug the computer before following
the procedure in the manual ? Removing all the cables inside the computer
is not essential, but making sure there is no +5VSB is a good safety
precaution. And for that, I tell people to unplug, so there is no
ambiguity in the instructions.

2) Did you put the CMOS jumper back onto pins 2-3. That is the "normal"
position for the jumper. On some boards, the jumper is needed so the
CMOS well can get power, so it has to go back in the "normal" position.

If the jumper was placed on pins 1-2, while power was applied, on some
boards that burns a small dual diode. On several of my motherboards here,
the device is marked with "K45" in microscopic letters. (I need one
of my small magnifying glasses to see it.) The device has three legs, and
is typically located near the CMOS battery. (It doesn't have to be physically
close, and if the motherboard designer has a weird sense of humor, it could
be almost anywhere. But normally it would be in the neighbourhood of the
battery.

It would be a BAS40W-05 dual diode with common cathode. What happens is,
on some motherboards, clearing the CMOS while the power is running, causes
significant current flow through one side of that device, and it is enough
to fry it. Usually, people who suffer from this, cannot read the letters
on top of the device, because of the physical damage (frying).

http://web.archive.org/web/20030629...com/ebusiness/product_images/b/cn_b_3_452.pdf

If the thing is fried, one guy I helped out, replaced it with a couple
ordinary diodes, and claimed all was well when he was finished. So it
can be repaired.

I hope your problem is you just left that jumper off entirely.

Paul

 

[NewToFPGA]

Two things:

1) Did you follow my suggestion, and unplug the computer before following
    the procedure in the manual ? Removing all the cables inside the computer
    is not essential, but making sure there is no +5VSB is a good safety
    precaution. And for that, I tell people to unplug, so there is no
    ambiguity in the instructions.

The computer was unplugged for a week or so before I changed the
jumper settings. I moved the jumpers to pins1-2 while there is no
power supply. Then I connected the power supply. There was no
activity. After that I tried to put back to the pins 2-3 while the
power supply was unplugged. Then put the supply back on. Still
nothing...

2) Did you put the CMOS jumper back onto pins 2-3. That is the "normal"
    position for the jumper. On some boards, the jumper is needed so the
    CMOS well can get power, so it has to go back in the "normal" position.

I had the jumpers on pins1-2 when I plugged in the supply.

If the jumper was placed on pins 1-2, while power was applied, on some
boards that burns a small dual diode.

I dont see K45 or BAS40W-05 dual diode in the manual. I will see if I
could locate it.

I hope your problem is you just left that jumper off entirely.

I have the jumpers back on pins 2-3. What do u mean by "jumper off
entirely".



what is my next option? any idea?

 

[Paul]

The computer was unplugged for a week or so before I changed the
jumper settings. I moved the jumpers to pins1-2 while there is no
power supply. Then I connected the power supply. There was no
activity. After that I tried to put back to the pins 2-3 while the
power supply was unplugged. Then put the supply back on. Still
nothing...




I had the jumpers on pins1-2 when I plugged in the supply.


I dont see K45 or BAS40W-05 dual diode in the manual. I will see if I
could locate it.


I have the jumpers back on pins 2-3. What do u mean by "jumper off
entirely".

what is my next option? any idea?

There are three options for the header:

1) Jumper on 1-2 (only with computer unplugged - potential for damage otherwise)
2) Jumper on 2-3 (safe whether powered or not - the normal jumper position)
3) Jumper removed entirely - would cause CMOS well to get no power.
AFAIK, this is safe in terms of damaging a K45. Not sure about
other side effects.

My guess is, you may have damaged the dual diode, by powering the system
while the jumper was in position 1-2. I have no way to back up this
claim, as the motherboard designers have options as to how they
design this circuit. So a motherboard may have this exposure or it
may not.

In terms of its location, examine the following area. There is the CMOS battery
on the right of the area. The JP2 jumper bounds the bottom of the area.
The Southbridge chip bounds the left side of the area. In that roughly
one square inch of area, look for a black device, as tiny as the jumper
plug, with three legs. That could be the K45 device. Outer dimensions,
contacts included, would be 2mm x 2mm. (I cannot find a picture of the
motherboard, with sufficiently high resolution, so you'll have to look
for it.)

To repair it, you need to know something about electronics, and need to
know how to solder.

Mouser.com has a reasonable likeness to the part. Mouser part number 621-BAS40W-05-F

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=oQbAKJL2WnGYQHmpyFm5iA==

The datasheet for that diode is here. My copy of Acrobat complained a bit
trying to read this, but it is readable. When replacing it, note the orientation
of the device. Make sure the "K45" logo is facing upwards. Two numbers in
slightly smaller font (if that is possible), indicate the month and year of
manufacture.

http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/ds30114.pdf

First you have to locate the part (and not mistake it for one of the many
other potential transistor devices that might also be on the board). As
I mentioned before, I have three boards were I verified the marking was
K45 on each one, so the BAS40-05 is a popular solution for the power
ORing diode. What the dual diode selects between, is 3V from the CMOS
battery (through a 1K ohm limiting resistor) or a 3V source derived
from +5VSB (with no limiting resistor in the path). The fact there is
no limiting resistor, is how the damage happens. (Assuming the motherboard
is designed the "dangerous" way.)

It is also possible a coincidence happened, like the power switch cable
fell off, you forgot to plug something in, etc. So my analysis is not
guaranteed to be the only failure mechanism.

Paul

 

[NewToFPGA]

I dont find the K45 anywhere near the CMOS battery. I all see are
starting with R, C, ST, ....

I had to change the power supply before a week ago. Do you think it
has happened again?

 

[Paul]

I dont find the K45 anywhere near the CMOS battery. I all see are
starting with R, C, ST, ....

I had to change the power supply before a week ago. Do you think it
has happened again?

Well, there is a trick you can use, to make a power supply run.
Connect PS_ON# to COM. Wiring diagrams and colors are documented here.

24 pin
http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf

20 pin
http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/atx/ATX12V_1_3dg.pdf

The PS_ON# signal is open collector. Or is supposed to be. The power
supply input signal, should have a pullup on it. The motherboard pulls
that signal to ground, to make the PSU fan spin, and cause all main outputs
to appear. You can connect PS_ON# to COM, and make the PSU run.

The dangers with such a technique.

1) The PSU only runs, as long as there is a wire from PS_ON# to COM.
So if there isn't a good connection, the computer could stop or reset.

2) Computers have overheat protection. If the computer overheats, it has
the ability to turn off the computer. But if you use a jumper to keep
PS_ON# going, then the computer has "lost control". It is no longer
in charge of "switch on" and "turn off". So you lose a protection feature.
If the CPU overheats, while you have left the room, then the CPU could fry.

So the technique will work, but is not the safest thing to do. By defeating
safety features, you increase the odds of something bad happening. But you
can certainly try this for a temporary test. (Connect PS_ON# to COM,
see the BIOS screen appear, then switch off again by removing the shunt.)

If this was my computer, and it wouldn't go, this is the test case I would try.

1) Remove motherboard from computer case. That avoids accidental shorts to the
bottom of the motherboard, as a cause of the failure.

2) Remove processor and RAM from the motherboard. Pull add-in cards.
You want the motherboard, power supply, power switch to PANEL header.

3) If the motherboard has a green LED to monitor +5VSB, verify the LED lights
up when the power supply is switched on at the back. If there is no LED
(a cheap motherboard), then use a multimeter to verify +5VSB is present.
If not, find out why.

4) Press the front power button. The motherboard logic circuit, powered by +5VSB,
should be asserting (grounding) PS_ON#. The power supply should start, and
the fan should spin. Since both processor and RAM are missing, it cannot
boot. There is no video card or other cards present either. So there is
nothing to see. The whole purpose of this test, is to verify that the
motherboard could turn on the power supply. If the test passes, add
components one at a time, and carry out additional test cases, until a
failure is again observed.

I've built up my last two computer systems completely on a table, without
mounting them in a computer case. That allowed me to add a component at a
time, and verify it worked. I even installed the OS and got the Windows
desktop, while all the stuff was sitting on the table. It is a lot easier
to see what you're doing, with the motherboard out in the open. The only
danger, is there is no way to keep the video card secured in its slot, so
you have to be extra careful to not tug on the cable. If you have small
children in the area, this is not a good test to do.

HTH,
Paul

 

[NewToFPGA]

After a close reading of the manual it says that "It has the
external AGP slot with AGP 4X/2X capability". What does it mean?

 

[Paul]

After a close reading of the manual it says that "It has the
external AGP slot with AGP 4X/2X capability". What does it mean?

That it has an AGP slot ? The transfer rate is usually meant to
imply what I/O pad voltage supply is used in the slot. 4X would
use 1.5V, for example. The AGP bus is 32 bits and runs at 66MHz.
Four bytes times 66MHz gives 266MB/sec for the basic bus.
4X AGP has a bandwidth of 4 x 266MB/sec = 1066MB/sec.
8X AGP is 2133MB/sec. By comparison PCI Express x16 is 4000MB/sec
and has two unidirectional busses.

The AGP spec is here.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030314...m/technology/agp/downloads/agp30_final_10.pdf

Paul

 

[NewToFPGA]

That it has an AGP slot ? The transfer rate is usually meant to
imply what I/O pad voltage supply is used in the slot. 4X would
use 1.5V, for example. The AGP bus is 32 bits and runs at 66MHz.
Four bytes times 66MHz gives 266MB/sec for the basic bus.
4X AGP has a bandwidth of 4 x 266MB/sec = 1066MB/sec.
8X AGP is 2133MB/sec. By comparison PCI Express x16 is 4000MB/sec
and has two unidirectional busses.

My ATI All-in-wonder 9600XT say that it is compatible with AGP 8x (.
8V)/4x (1.5v). It also stopped functioning earlier. Do you think that
there is any remote possibility that the motherboard is having some
problems?

I am little bit scared to try it on another PC to see if the ATI
graphics card has any issues.. I dont want to have that PC also go
into the same state.

Question..... Normally I have seen data rates in terms of bits per
second.. you are describing in bytes per second... just curious about
it.

Does AGP always runs at 66 MHz? or is it a settable value anywhere?

 

[Paul]

My ATI All-in-wonder 9600XT say that it is compatible with AGP 8x (.
8V)/4x (1.5v). It also stopped functioning earlier. Do you think that
there is any remote possibility that the motherboard is having some
problems?

I am little bit scared to try it on another PC to see if the ATI
graphics card has any issues.. I dont want to have that PC also go
into the same state.

Question..... Normally I have seen data rates in terms of bits per
second.. you are describing in bytes per second... just curious about
it.

Does AGP always runs at 66 MHz? or is it a settable value anywhere?

My current motherboard allows the AGP clock to be set independent of
the other clocks. I can use 66MHz or 75MHz, for example. For some of
the more modern video cards, in fact they have trouble at more than
75MHz. Some of the older ones, can actually run at quite fast speeds,
like 100MHz (a guy who overclocks 440BX boards, used to test them).
But my ATI 9800pro will only do 75MHz safely.

For bus bandwidths, the preferred units are bytes/second. Because
bytes are what people move around inside their computer.

One of the problems with testing via swapping equipment from one
machine to another, is there is a danger of damaging another piece
of equipment. We get posters here, who have ruined three computers
while testing, so it does happen. I would hope that the second video
card that you added to the machine (i.e. probably didn't cause the
problems) could be safely moved to another computer to see if it
is still working or not. If you suspect the first card caused all
the problems, then don't swap that one into another computer just
yet. And use the smell test - if you smell something burned on the
card, then be extra cautious where you install it.

But if you aren't able to get the M935G to start up and spin the
PSU fans, you have to solve that problem first. If you cannot
figure it out, then it means swapping in another motherboard.
(Using the PS_ON# to COM trick, to turn on the supply, may still
not be enough to get the BIOS to POST. If the CMOS well in the
Southbridge really doesn't have any power being applied to it,
because the dual diode is damaged, it could in fact prevent other
parts of the chip from working properly. BIOS instructions are
pulled through the Southbridge, so it has to work for the computer
to be able to POST.)

Computers are amazingly complicated, and if there is any surprise,
the surprise is that so many of the computers work

Paul