Old info in Boot.ini after formatting?

[Guest]

I recently formatted a Windows 2000 machine and installed 2000 Server. I
formatted it using the 2000 Server CD, and after the instillation the
boot.ini file still shows the previous version of Windows as an option. I
have seen this a couple times before when reinstalling too. Does the CD not
do a complete format of the drive? Just a curiosity question.

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

The "Previous operating system" entry is inserted by the Win2000
installation process. It does not survive formatting. You can easily
check this my changing the wording from "Previous" to "Former",
then doing the usual format/re-install. The word "Former" will
disappear.

 

[Dave Patrick]

You may have done a quick format. If you had deleted/ recreated the system
partition then it would have been gone.

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

:
|I recently formatted a Windows 2000 machine and installed 2000 Server. I
| formatted it using the 2000 Server CD, and after the instillation the
| boot.ini file still shows the previous version of Windows as an option. I
| have seen this a couple times before when reinstalling too. Does the CD
not
| do a complete format of the drive? Just a curiosity question.

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

AFAIK, a "quick format" would require an "undelete" to
retrieve a pre-existing file. Are you suggesting that the
Win2000 installation process uses "undelete" to restore
an old boot.ini file?

 

[Dave Patrick]

No. It happens all the time. Possibly read from the partition boot sector.

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

:
| AFAIK, a "quick format" would require an "undelete" to
| retrieve a pre-existing file. Are you suggesting that the
| Win2000 installation process uses "undelete" to restore
| an old boot.ini file?

 

[Andy]

My understanding of this phenomenon is boot.ini is so small that it
resides within the MFT, so format does not delete it. Removing the
partition would.

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

This sounds all very strange to me, and totally contrary to my
knowledge and experience. Are you (and Andy) suggesting
that boot.ini will survive if I do the following:
- Install Win2000 in a NTFS partition
- Modify c:\boot.ini so that I can recognise it later on
- Re-install Win2000
- Select "quick format" when prompted

If you are confident that boot.ini will survive then I'll
try it for myself, just to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[Dave Patrick]

No first-hand experience, just many-many observations of the issue in these
groups.

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

:
| This sounds all very strange to me, and totally contrary to my
| knowledge and experience. Are you (and Andy) suggesting
| that boot.ini will survive if I do the following:
| - Install Win2000 in a NTFS partition
| - Modify c:\boot.ini so that I can recognise it later on
| - Re-install Win2000
| - Select "quick format" when prompted
|
| If you are confident that boot.ini will survive then I'll
| try it for myself, just to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

I don't trust hear-say experiences - too many of them are
just plain myths that nobody bothered to verify. This one
sounds like one too, especially in view of the comment
made by Andy, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt
until I've done the test below. Watch this space!

 

[Dave Patrick]

I would agree except as I said I've seen the issue documented in detail too
many times to just dismiss it.

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

:
|I don't trust hear-say experiences - too many of them are
| just plain myths that nobody bothered to verify. This one
| sounds like one too, especially in view of the comment
| made by Andy, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt
| until I've done the test below. Watch this space!

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

I was ready to relegate this phenomenon to the realm of
urban myths but decided to give it the benefit of the doubt
until I had run a rigorous test myself. Much to my surprise
I found that it was correct: The file c:\boot.ini does indeed
survive the format process during the Win2000 installation.

Strange . . .

 

[Dave Patrick]

Thanks for letting us know.

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

:
|I was ready to relegate this phenomenon to the realm of
| urban myths but decided to give it the benefit of the doubt
| until I had run a rigorous test myself. Much to my surprise
| I found that it was correct: The file c:\boot.ini does indeed
| survive the format process during the Win2000 installation.
|
| Strange . . .

 

[John John]

In deference to the 'ol' MVPs I didn't want to say anything. Now after
confirmation that the "phenomenon" does occurs I thought I should post this:

BOOT.INI Not Cleaned Up After Repartitioning
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=141188

It seems this is one of these quirks with NT Operating Systems under
specific conditions.

John

I was ready to relegate this phenomenon to the realm of
urban myths but decided to give it the benefit of the doubt
until I had run a rigorous test myself. Much to my surprise
I found that it was correct: The file c:\boot.ini does indeed
survive the format process during the Win2000 installation.

Strange . . .

I would agree except as I said I've seen the issue documented in detail
too

many times to just dismiss it.

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

:
|I don't trust hear-say experiences - too many of them are
| just plain myths that nobody bothered to verify. This one
| sounds like one too, especially in view of the comment
| made by Andy, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt
| until I've done the test below. Watch this space!

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

The link you mention includes this sentence:

"Microsoft has confirmed this to be a problem in Windows NT version 3.51. We
are researching this problem and will post new information here in the
Microsoft Knowledge Base as it becomes available."

Now WinNT 3.51 was a loooooooooong time ago. The article
itself was last reviewed on 7 May 2003. I suspect that someone
at Microsoft is dragging his/her feet.

I suspect that the cause is nowhere near as exotic as some
respondents in this thread have suggested, e.g. that boot.ini
"dwells in the MFT" etc. etc. A more likely explanation is
that the installation process reads boot.ini at the start of the
installation process, keeps the contents in memory, then
replicates some of the original lines when the new boot.ini
is generated. This would line up with the fact that none of
the Win2000 boot files (c:\ntldr, c:\ntdetect.com, c:\boot.ini)
need to be located in a specific sector of the disk (like some
DOS boot files). They can occupy any physical location,
and can deleted/copied/replicated freely, as long as their
logical location is the root directory of the active partition.

In deference to the 'ol' MVPs I didn't want to say anything. Now after
confirmation that the "phenomenon" does occurs I thought I should post this:

BOOT.INI Not Cleaned Up After Repartitioning
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=141188

It seems this is one of these quirks with NT Operating Systems under
specific conditions.

John

I was ready to relegate this phenomenon to the realm of
urban myths but decided to give it the benefit of the doubt
until I had run a rigorous test myself. Much to my surprise
I found that it was correct: The file c:\boot.ini does indeed
survive the format process during the Win2000 installation.

Strange . . .

I would agree except as I said I've seen the issue documented in detail
too

many times to just dismiss it.

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

:
|I don't trust hear-say experiences - too many of them are
| just plain myths that nobody bothered to verify. This one
| sounds like one too, especially in view of the comment
| made by Andy, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt
| until I've done the test below. Watch this space!

 

[Dave Patrick]

Part of the reason I always suggest delete, restart, create the partition
when clean installing the OS.

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

:
| The link you mention includes this sentence:
|
| "Microsoft has confirmed this to be a problem in Windows NT version 3.51.
We
| are researching this problem and will post new information here in the
| Microsoft Knowledge Base as it becomes available."
|
| Now WinNT 3.51 was a loooooooooong time ago. The article
| itself was last reviewed on 7 May 2003. I suspect that someone
| at Microsoft is dragging his/her feet.
|
| I suspect that the cause is nowhere near as exotic as some
| respondents in this thread have suggested, e.g. that boot.ini
| "dwells in the MFT" etc. etc. A more likely explanation is
| that the installation process reads boot.ini at the start of the
| installation process, keeps the contents in memory, then
| replicates some of the original lines when the new boot.ini
| is generated. This would line up with the fact that none of
| the Win2000 boot files (c:\ntldr, c:\ntdetect.com, c:\boot.ini)
| need to be located in a specific sector of the disk (like some
| DOS boot files). They can occupy any physical location,
| and can deleted/copied/replicated freely, as long as their
| logical location is the root directory of the active partition.
|
|
| | > In deference to the 'ol' MVPs I didn't want to say anything. Now after
| > confirmation that the "phenomenon" does occurs I thought I should post
| this:
| >
| > BOOT.INI Not Cleaned Up After Repartitioning
| > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=141188
| >
| > It seems this is one of these quirks with NT Operating Systems under
| > specific conditions.
| >
| > John
| >
| > Pegasus (MVP) wrote:
| >
| > > I was ready to relegate this phenomenon to the realm of
| > > urban myths but decided to give it the benefit of the doubt
| > > until I had run a rigorous test myself. Much to my surprise
| > > I found that it was correct: The file c:\boot.ini does indeed
| > > survive the format process during the Win2000 installation.
| > >
| > > Strange . . .

 

[John John]

Yes NT 3.51, at the bottom it says:

APPLIES TO
• Microsoft Windows 2000 Server
• Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server
• Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional Edition
• Microsoft Windows NT Workstation 3.51
• Microsoft Windows NT Workstation 4.0 Developer Edition
• Microsoft Windows NT Server 3.51
• Microsoft Windows NT Server 4.0 Standard Edition

I'm along with you on the possible reason, I kind of think that it reads
the boot.ini file and temporarily store it in the RAM, then restores it.
I'm inclined to believe that if one was to use W98 disk and format or,
format the disk slaved in another NT pc that it would be toast. It says
in the article that it happens if you use an NT setup cd. It's probably
is one of these quirks that just carried on from version to version.
Like W95 things that still apply to NT. As for MS dragging their
feet... well I guess it isn't much of an issue other than academia.
Maybe it will be different with Longhorn setup cd... whenever it comes out.

John

The link you mention includes this sentence:

"Microsoft has confirmed this to be a problem in Windows NT version 3.51. We
are researching this problem and will post new information here in the
Microsoft Knowledge Base as it becomes available."

Now WinNT 3.51 was a loooooooooong time ago. The article
itself was last reviewed on 7 May 2003. I suspect that someone
at Microsoft is dragging his/her feet.

I suspect that the cause is nowhere near as exotic as some
respondents in this thread have suggested, e.g. that boot.ini
"dwells in the MFT" etc. etc. A more likely explanation is
that the installation process reads boot.ini at the start of the
installation process, keeps the contents in memory, then
replicates some of the original lines when the new boot.ini
is generated. This would line up with the fact that none of
the Win2000 boot files (c:\ntldr, c:\ntdetect.com, c:\boot.ini)
need to be located in a specific sector of the disk (like some
DOS boot files). They can occupy any physical location,
and can deleted/copied/replicated freely, as long as their
logical location is the root directory of the active partition.

In deference to the 'ol' MVPs I didn't want to say anything. Now after
confirmation that the "phenomenon" does occurs I thought I should post
this:

BOOT.INI Not Cleaned Up After Repartitioning
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=141188

It seems this is one of these quirks with NT Operating Systems under
specific conditions.

John

Pegasus (MVP) wrote:

I was ready to relegate this phenomenon to the realm of
urban myths but decided to give it the benefit of the doubt
until I had run a rigorous test myself. Much to my surprise
I found that it was correct: The file c:\boot.ini does indeed
survive the format process during the Win2000 installation.

Strange . . .




I would agree except as I said I've seen the issue documented in detail

too


many times to just dismiss it.

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

:
|I don't trust hear-say experiences - too many of them are
| just plain myths that nobody bothered to verify. This one
| sounds like one too, especially in view of the comment
| made by Andy, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt
| until I've done the test below. Watch this space!

 

[John John]

On second thought there may be a perfectly sensible answer for this
behaviour. If one has more than one OS on more than one partition it
would make sense to keep the boot.ini paths to the other OS. I mean why
should formating one operating system break the loader to the other
captured Operating Systems? More or less like boot loaders that want a
small dedicated partition I guess.

John