OL2003: Permanently delete implies permanently stay on server?

  • Thread starter Christian Dembowski
  • Start date
C

Christian Dembowski

Hi everybody,

I am not sure whether I understand the 'permanently delete' action
from the rules set correctly.

If I set my account (POP3) to delete messages on server when they are
delted locally I would expect that 'permanently delete'

a) delete the mail in Outlook 2003 without moving it to the Deleted
Items folder
b) whipe it from the server

What I am experiencing is that a) does occur but the mail is not
deleted from the server (yes, I did wait for the next Send/Receive
cycle - I even shutdown Outlook and restarted it).

In contrast: I am ending up with an email on the server which can't be
deleted since it is gone in Outlook and it won't be deleted when I
empty the Deleted Items folder (it never went there). Hmmm, rather
ironic. MS should rename the action to: Make the mail invisible in
Outlook but leave it on the POP3 server for all times - not exactly
what I was expecting :)

Is anybody aware of a workaround or a macro which might help?

TIA,
Chris
 
C

Christian Dembowski

Hi Jeff,

Could you turn on diagnostic logging (see
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q300479, it works
for Outlook 2003 as well) and post the OPMLog.log after you do a permanent
deletion followed by a send/receive? This should work just fine - I use it
all the time at work to clean up my personal ISP mailbox so I only get mail
I want when I download at home.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your help - I do not have the slightest clue why it doesn't
work. Are you using Outlook 2003? Are you running a filter that
permanetly deletes stuff? Did you manually check whether the messages
are still on the server or gone?

Anyways, here is my logfile:

I downloaded a test message at 10:43:37 which was permanently deleted
by a filter (to make sure the filter worked I let it play a sound and
kept a copy of the message). Then, at 10:43:57 I reconnected to the
server and the message is still there (of course it is), however - it
does not get deleted :(

Might the problem be that I am attempting to keep a copy of the
message in Outlook? Again: If I keep a copy of the message, delete it
(not permanently delete it) and the empty the trash I achived what I
am attempting: No message on the server, local copy in Outlook still
present, everyone smiling.

Thx for your help,
Chris

2003.12.03 10:43:37 <<<< Logging Started (level is LTF_TRACE) >>>>
2003.12.03 10:43:37 lycos.de: Synch operation started (flags =
00000001)
2003.12.03 10:43:37 lycos.de: UploadItems: 0 messages to send
2003.12.03 10:43:37 lycos.de: Synch operation completed
2003.12.03 10:43:37 lycos.de: Synch operation started (flags =
00000030)
2003.12.03 10:43:37 lycos.de: DoPOPDownload(flags = 00000030, max msg
= ffffffff): full items
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Begin execution
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): ========= Initial blob
=========
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de):
===================================
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Port: 110, Secure: no, SPA:
no
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Finding host
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Connecting to host
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Connected to host
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK POP3 server ready
<********>
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Authorizing to server
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] USER ********
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK password required
for ********.
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] PASS *****
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK ********.de has 1
messages (1251 octets).
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Authorized to host
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Connected to host
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] STAT
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK 1 1251.
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] UIDL
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> 1 2840
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> .
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] LIST
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK 1 messages (1251
octets)
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> 1 1251
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> .
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): ==== Comparing server and
local blobs ====
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): 2840 : new
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de):
==========================================
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] RETR 1
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK 1251 octets
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Do deletions: LoS: yes, DoN:
no
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Disconnecting from host
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] QUIT
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK POP LycosMail
signing off.
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Disconnected from host
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): ========= Updates to blob
=========
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): +B2840
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): ========= Final blob
=========
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): +B2840
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de):
===================================
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): End execution
2003.12.03 10:43:39 lycos.de: ReportStatus: RSF_COMPLETED, hr =
0x00000000
2003.12.03 10:43:39 lycos.de: Synch operation completed
2003.12.03 10:43:57 lycos.de: Synch operation started (flags =
00000001)
2003.12.03 10:43:57 lycos.de: UploadItems: 0 messages to send
2003.12.03 10:43:57 lycos.de: Synch operation completed
2003.12.03 10:43:57 lycos.de: Synch operation started (flags =
00000030)
2003.12.03 10:43:57 lycos.de: DoPOPDownload(flags = 00000030, max msg
= ffffffff): full items
2003.12.03 10:43:57 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Begin execution
2003.12.03 10:43:57 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): ========= Initial blob
=========
2003.12.03 10:43:57 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): +B2840
2003.12.03 10:43:57 POP3 (pop.lycos.de):
===================================
2003.12.03 10:43:57 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Port: 110, Secure: no, SPA:
no
2003.12.03 10:43:57 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Finding host
2003.12.03 10:43:57 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Connected to host
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK POP3 server ready
<********>
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Authorizing to server
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] USER ********
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK password required
for ********.
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] PASS *****
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK ******** has 1
messages (1251 octets).
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Authorized to host
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Connected to host
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] STAT
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK 1 1251.
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] UIDL
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> 1 2840
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> .
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] LIST
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK 1 messages (1251
octets)
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> 1 1251
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> .
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): ==== Comparing server and
local blobs ====
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de):
==========================================
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Do deletions: LoS: yes, DoN:
no
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Disconnecting from host
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] QUIT
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK POP LycosMail
signing off.
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Disconnected from host
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): ========= No blob changes
=========
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de):
===================================
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): End execution
2003.12.03 10:43:58 lycos.de: ReportStatus: RSF_COMPLETED, hr =
0x00000000
2003.12.03 10:43:58 lycos.de: Synch operation completed
 
J

Jeff Stephenson [MSFT]

Yes, I'm using Outlook 2003 and this works fine for me. I don't have a
filter in place that permanently deletes stuff, though (by "filter", I
assume you mean an Outlook "rule", or is this a third-party addon?). Two
things may be involved here:

1) The log shows that you don't have the "remove from server when deleted
from 'Deleted Items'" option checked. Without that, Outlook will not delete
messages when they're permanently deleted.
2) We've discovered that there are some code paths which permanently delete
items *without* going through the code that will make Outlook delete the
messages from the server - your filter may be one of them.

I'd start with fixing (1). If things still don't work, change your filter
to file the messages you're currently permanently deleting in a junk-mail
folder, and periodically go to that folder, select all messages (Ctrl-A),
and permanently delete them (Shift-Del). I know that works, because that's
the way I do it...

--
Jeff Stephenson
Outlook Development
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights


Christian Dembowski said:
Hi Jeff,

Could you turn on diagnostic logging (see
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q300479, it works
for Outlook 2003 as well) and post the OPMLog.log after you do a permanent
deletion followed by a send/receive? This should work just fine - I use it
all the time at work to clean up my personal ISP mailbox so I only get mail
I want when I download at home.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your help - I do not have the slightest clue why it doesn't
work. Are you using Outlook 2003? Are you running a filter that
permanetly deletes stuff? Did you manually check whether the messages
are still on the server or gone?

Anyways, here is my logfile:

I downloaded a test message at 10:43:37 which was permanently deleted
by a filter (to make sure the filter worked I let it play a sound and
kept a copy of the message). Then, at 10:43:57 I reconnected to the
server and the message is still there (of course it is), however - it
does not get deleted :(

Might the problem be that I am attempting to keep a copy of the
message in Outlook? Again: If I keep a copy of the message, delete it
(not permanently delete it) and the empty the trash I achived what I
am attempting: No message on the server, local copy in Outlook still
present, everyone smiling.

Thx for your help,
Chris

2003.12.03 10:43:37 <<<< Logging Started (level is LTF_TRACE) >>>>
2003.12.03 10:43:37 lycos.de: Synch operation started (flags =
00000001)
2003.12.03 10:43:37 lycos.de: UploadItems: 0 messages to send
2003.12.03 10:43:37 lycos.de: Synch operation completed
2003.12.03 10:43:37 lycos.de: Synch operation started (flags =
00000030)
2003.12.03 10:43:37 lycos.de: DoPOPDownload(flags = 00000030, max msg
= ffffffff): full items
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Begin execution
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): ========= Initial blob
=========
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de):
===================================
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Port: 110, Secure: no, SPA:
no
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Finding host
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Connecting to host
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Connected to host
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK POP3 server ready
<********>
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Authorizing to server
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] USER ********
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK password required
for ********.
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] PASS *****
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK ********.de has 1
messages (1251 octets).
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Authorized to host
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Connected to host
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] STAT
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK 1 1251.
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] UIDL
2003.12.03 10:43:37 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> 1 2840
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> .
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] LIST
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK 1 messages (1251
octets)
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> 1 1251
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> .
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): ==== Comparing server and
local blobs ====
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): 2840 : new
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de):
==========================================
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] RETR 1
2003.12.03 10:43:38 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK 1251 octets
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Do deletions: LoS: yes, DoN:
no
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Disconnecting from host
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] QUIT
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK POP LycosMail
signing off.
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Disconnected from host
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): ========= Updates to blob
=========
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): +B2840
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): ========= Final blob
=========
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): +B2840
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de):
===================================
2003.12.03 10:43:39 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): End execution
2003.12.03 10:43:39 lycos.de: ReportStatus: RSF_COMPLETED, hr =
0x00000000
2003.12.03 10:43:39 lycos.de: Synch operation completed
2003.12.03 10:43:57 lycos.de: Synch operation started (flags =
00000001)
2003.12.03 10:43:57 lycos.de: UploadItems: 0 messages to send
2003.12.03 10:43:57 lycos.de: Synch operation completed
2003.12.03 10:43:57 lycos.de: Synch operation started (flags =
00000030)
2003.12.03 10:43:57 lycos.de: DoPOPDownload(flags = 00000030, max msg
= ffffffff): full items
2003.12.03 10:43:57 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Begin execution
2003.12.03 10:43:57 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): ========= Initial blob
=========
2003.12.03 10:43:57 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): +B2840
2003.12.03 10:43:57 POP3 (pop.lycos.de):
===================================
2003.12.03 10:43:57 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Port: 110, Secure: no, SPA:
no
2003.12.03 10:43:57 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Finding host
2003.12.03 10:43:57 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Connected to host
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK POP3 server ready
<********>
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Authorizing to server
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] USER ********
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK password required
for ********.
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] PASS *****
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK ******** has 1
messages (1251 octets).
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Authorized to host
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Connected to host
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] STAT
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK 1 1251.
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] UIDL
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> 1 2840
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> .
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] LIST
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK 1 messages (1251
octets)
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> 1 1251
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> .
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): ==== Comparing server and
local blobs ====
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de):
==========================================
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Do deletions: LoS: yes, DoN:
no
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Disconnecting from host
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): [tx] QUIT
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): <rx> +OK POP LycosMail
signing off.
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): Disconnected from host
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): ========= No blob changes
=========
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de):
===================================
2003.12.03 10:43:58 POP3 (pop.lycos.de): End execution
2003.12.03 10:43:58 lycos.de: ReportStatus: RSF_COMPLETED, hr =
0x00000000
2003.12.03 10:43:58 lycos.de: Synch operation completed
Click to expand...
 
C

Christian Dembowski

Hi Jeff,

1) The log shows that you don't have the "remove from server when deleted
from 'Deleted Items'" option checked. Without that, Outlook will not delete
messages when they're permanently deleted.
Click to expand...
sorry... stupid me. Of course I forgot to check this box. Checked it,
tried it manually and it work. Good! Thank you for this one.
2) We've discovered that there are some code paths which permanently delete
items *without* going through the code that will make Outlook delete the
messages from the server - your filter may be one of them.
Click to expand...
Yup. It definetly is. The filter still leaves the mail on the server.
Not god. However, I found a macro that claims to permanently delete an
item by deleting it, then marking it in the junk folder and deleting
it again. This should do the job.

If I manage to understand VBA I might be able to write the following:

-Copy (not move) message to a folder (and ask use which folder via
pop-up)
-Permanently delte the messege i.e. the one on the server and the one
in Outlook

I will end up with a mail that is still avaiable locally and gone on
the server while most of my mail stays on the server - just what I
want :)
I'd start with fixing (1). If things still don't work, change your filter
to file the messages you're currently permanently deleting in a junk-mail
folder, and periodically go to that folder, select all messages (Ctrl-A),
and permanently delete them (Shift-Del). I know that works, because that's
the way I do it...
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know about that one... But thanks for your help and for
telling me that it is indeed a bug and not me!

Bye,
Chris
 

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