Norton Ghost 2003 cloned disk crashes when booted

K

kimwal

I have a problem which is driving me crazy.

After installing Windows XP on a new computer along with a zillion
programs, I ran into strange crashes and weird behavior, so I decided
to reinstall everything from scratch, this time acquiring Norton Ghost
10 and creating frequent backups along the way.

I did this on an extra disk, since I did not want to erase my internal
disk until I reached a state better than my problematic system. The
system on the extra disk now seems ok, and I decided it was time to
overwrite my old internal disk.

So I tried to recover my last backup on the extra disk back to my
internal disk, and everything was reported ok by Ghost. But when I
booted the restored system Windows crashes when the startup is almost
finished and most of the autostart icons have turned up on the system
tray.

The message "Generic Host Process for Win32 services has encountered a
problem and must terminate" (or some similar wording--the message is in
Swedish) is displayed, and after that Windows more or less freezes, so
I cannot even bring it down, but have to reboot by switching off the
computer hardware. After booting again it only gets worse, so a new
full clone from the source disk is required before you can make another
test!

To rule out hardware trouble with my internal disk, I restored the
backup to a third disk, but had the same error when booting from it.

Then I began to suspect Ghost 10 to sometimes produce unreliable
recovery points, so I tried to clone the entire extra disk on my
internal disk using the low-level Windows 98 DOS recovery disk of
Norton Ghost 2003, which is supposed to make a bit-by-bit clone of the
whole disk. (I have a 50 GB partition for the system and the remaining
184 GB partition for data and recovery points, and I told Ghost to keep
the same partitioning on the cloned disk.)

Again everything was reported successful by Ghost, but when I boot the
cloned disk I get the same error, and Windows freezes and dies.

Booting again from my extra disk (the source), everything is still ok
and Windows starts up with no problems.

Now, if the disks are bit-by-bit copies of each other, how is this
possible?
Or can there still be subtle differences?

Greatful for any help, since the current situation is a real nightmare.
Since the only stable system I have is on my extra SATA disk, I am
extremely nervous that something might happen to it before I have a
proven bootable clone.

Making recovery points doesn't seem to be safe until it is proven that
they work.

Both the source and target disks are exactly the same brand and size
(WD Caviar Sata 2, 250 GB).

Regards
-- KW
 
R

R. McCarty

This sounds abrupt, but cut your losses - Return Ghost for a
refund or exchange for Acronis True Image ( Latest Ver 10).
The expectation of any software product is for it to work. If
it doesn't, choose something that does. Symantec's products
for home use are junk.
 
A

Anna

kimwal said:
I have a problem which is driving me crazy.

After installing Windows XP on a new computer along with a zillion
programs, I ran into strange crashes and weird behavior, so I decided
to reinstall everything from scratch, this time acquiring Norton Ghost
10 and creating frequent backups along the way.

I did this on an extra disk, since I did not want to erase my internal
disk until I reached a state better than my problematic system. The
system on the extra disk now seems ok, and I decided it was time to
overwrite my old internal disk.

So I tried to recover my last backup on the extra disk back to my
internal disk, and everything was reported ok by Ghost. But when I
booted the restored system Windows crashes when the startup is almost
finished and most of the autostart icons have turned up on the system
tray.

The message "Generic Host Process for Win32 services has encountered a
problem and must terminate" (or some similar wording--the message is in
Swedish) is displayed, and after that Windows more or less freezes, so
I cannot even bring it down, but have to reboot by switching off the
computer hardware. After booting again it only gets worse, so a new
full clone from the source disk is required before you can make another
test!

To rule out hardware trouble with my internal disk, I restored the
backup to a third disk, but had the same error when booting from it.

Then I began to suspect Ghost 10 to sometimes produce unreliable
recovery points, so I tried to clone the entire extra disk on my
internal disk using the low-level Windows 98 DOS recovery disk of
Norton Ghost 2003, which is supposed to make a bit-by-bit clone of the
whole disk. (I have a 50 GB partition for the system and the remaining
184 GB partition for data and recovery points, and I told Ghost to keep
the same partitioning on the cloned disk.)

Again everything was reported successful by Ghost, but when I boot the
cloned disk I get the same error, and Windows freezes and dies.

Booting again from my extra disk (the source), everything is still ok
and Windows starts up with no problems.

Now, if the disks are bit-by-bit copies of each other, how is this
possible?
Or can there still be subtle differences?

Greatful for any help, since the current situation is a real nightmare.
Since the only stable system I have is on my extra SATA disk, I am
extremely nervous that something might happen to it before I have a
proven bootable clone.

Making recovery points doesn't seem to be safe until it is proven that
they work.

Both the source and target disks are exactly the same brand and size
(WD Caviar Sata 2, 250 GB).

Regards
-- KW


Kimball:
Without addressing the specific problem you encountered with the Ghost 2003
program, let me make some comments which I hope will be of some help to you
concerning the use of that program.

Over the years we've used the Ghost 2003 program thousands of times with
countless systems for the purpose of cloning the contents of one HDD to
another HDD. By & large, used along the lines I'll describe, we've found it
to be a tried & true program, relatively easy to use and effective in what
it does, i.e., creating a clone of the source HDD. When we work with Ghost
2003, we use it solely for disk-to-disk cloning, not for its disk imaging
capability. In carrying out this disk-to-disk cloning operation we work with
a Ghost bootable floppy disk or Ghost bootable CD to undertake the disk
cloning process. We prefer using that media rather than Ghost's GUI.

We have not found either the Ghost 9 or 10 versions superior to the Ghost
2003 version for basic disk-to-disk cloning. The simplicity, straightforward
design, and effectiveness of the 2003 version suits us just fine.

First of all, it is assumed that your source HDD (the disk you will clone)
is non-defective in all respects, i.e., it boots without incident and
functions without any problems.

And it is further assumed that your destination drive - the HDD you're
cloning to - is similarly non-defective and that you've correctly connected
& configured that disk in your machine.

As I previously indicated, when we use the Ghost 2003 program we prefer to
work with the Ghost bootable floppy disk (or bootable CD) to undertake the
disk cloning process. For a variety of reasons we find that media easier to
work with and most reliable in comparison with Ghost's GUI. So the following
instructions are based on using a Ghost 2003 bootable floppy disk (or
bootable CD) to undertake the disk cloning process.

Make sure that you're working with the latest (& final) build of the Ghost
2003 program - version 2003.793. If not, use Symantec's LiveUpdate feature
in the Ghost program to download/install that latest build.

Here are step-by-step instructions for using the program...

Creating the bootable Ghost floppy disk (in case you haven't already done
so):
1. Install the Ghost 2003 program on your computer. As indicated above,
make sure you're using the latest "build" - Ghost 2003.793. If not, use
Ghost's LiveUpdate feature to automatically download the latest version from
Symantec's site. It's important that you be using this latest "build".
2. Insert a blank floppy disk (it need not be formatted) and access your
Ghost program.
3. Click on Ghost Utilities.
4. Click on Norton Ghost Boot Wizard.
5. Select Standard Ghost Boot Disk. A dialog box will appear.
a. Select the USB 2.0 Support option (assuming you have that
capability).
b. Select the Assign DOS drive letters option and click Next.
6. Select the Use PC-DOS option.
7. Complete the process following the screen prompts.
8. Remove floppy and label accordingly.

That's it. Now you have a Ghost bootable floppy disk which you can use to
undertake your disk cloning operations now and in the future. Now when you
want to clone the contents of one HDD to another HDD you simply insert the
Ghost bootable floppy disk in your floppy drive and boot up with both drives
connected.

NOTE: After creating the Ghost bootable floppy disk, you can create a Ghost
bootable CD from it using the Roxio or Nero CD burning programs, or most
other CD burning programs that allow you to create a bootable CD.
Unfortunately I know of no way to *directly* create this bootable CD from
the Ghost program (as you can do, for example, with the Acronis True Image
program).

Before undertaking the cloning operation ensure that the only storage
devices connected are the two HDDs that will be involved in the cloning
process, i.e., your source and destination disks. Disconnect any flash
drives, ZIP drives, etc.

Here's how to perform the cloning operation...
1. With both your source and destination drives connected, boot up with the
Ghost bootable floppy (or Ghost bootable CD). You'll get an initial screen
that displays "License agreement warning". Right-arrow (or tab) over to the
"Continue without marking drives" button and press Enter.
2. The "About Norton Ghost" screen appears. Click OK.
3. Right-arrow twice over to the "To Disk" button and press Enter.
4. The next screen will list both your drives - the Drive 1 (source disk)
and Drive 2 (destination disk). MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN Drive 1 IS INDEED
YOUR SOURCE DISK, I.E., THE DISK YOU'RE CLONING *FROM*! Drive 1 will be
highlighted. Press Enter.
5. The next screen will have Drive 2 (destination disk) highlighted. AGAIN,
ENSURE THAT Drive 2 IS YOUR DESTINATION DISK, I.E., THE DISK YOU'RE CLONING
*TO*! Press Enter.
6. The next screen is the "Destination Drive Details" window, and reflects
your ultimate destination disk, i.e., your current Drive 2. Press your Tab
key to highlight the OK button and press Enter.
7. The "Proceed with disk clone?" dialog box will open. Left-arrow over to
the Yes button and press Enter.
8. The cloning process will begin. The data transfer speed will vary
depending upon the speed of your processor and the HDDs involved. On a
medium to high-powered system you should get transfer speeds ranging from
800 MB/min nearly 2.0 GB/min should you be cloning internal drives. It will
be considerably slower if you're cloning to a USB external HDD.
9. After you get the "Clone Completed Successfully" message, left-arrow over
to the Continue button and press Enter.
10. Down-arrow to Quit and press Enter.
11. Click Yes at the "Are you sure you want to quit?" message.
12. Remove the Ghost floppy and shut down the computer.
13. Disconnect your source disk and boot up with the cloned drive. In most
cases (but not always), a Windows "Found New Hardware" message will appear
in the Desktop's Notification Area shortly followed by a "System Settings
Change"message window informing you that new hardware has been found and
asks "Do you want to restart your computer now?" Click Yes for the reboot.
14. BTW, the reboot of the newly-cloned drive usually takes a longer time
than usual, so one must be patient. On rare occasions the system will fail
to reboot - the system will hang before reaching the Windows XP Welcome
screen. It's a rare occurrence, but you may experience it from time-to-time.
If that does occur, simply use the Ctrl-Alt-Delete keys to reboot.

Assuming you've cloned the contents of your working drive to your second
internal HDD, that second drive will be bootable (after disconnecting your
primary one, of course) as indicated above. You also have the option of
cloning your working drive to a USB external hard drive. In that case the
USBEHD is *not* bootable (at least we haven't been able to boot the XP OS
from a USBEHD), but you could clone the contents back to your internal drive
for restoration purposes should the need arise.

Just one other point I wish to emphasize with respect to the cloning
operation involving internal drives. Immediately following the cloning
operation and the shutdown of your machine, disconnect your source drive and
boot ONLY to the newly-cloned drive (as indicated in step 13. above). DO NOT
BOOT IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE CLONING OPERATION WITH BOTH DRIVES CONNECTED.
Doing so is likely to cause future boot problems with the cloned drive.
Obviously there is no problem in this area should a USBEHD be involved in
the cloning process since that device is not bootable in an XP environment.

I trust the above will be of some use to you.
Anna
 
K

kimwal

Anna:

Thank you very much for your long and detailed answer.

Regarding Ghost 2003 I already used a bootable CD and did perfrom the
steps you describe below.

(Since I just bought a full license for Ghost 10 and downloaded it
electronically, I assumed I would be entitled to the old Ghost 2003
also, but couldn't find a way to download it from Symantec's web pages,
and the only phone number I could find to call Symantec in Sweden had a
$40 charge per call (!!). So what I did was borrowing a bootable CD
from the vendor who put my computer together.

By the way, it is a silent computer built into a Zalman TNN 500AF
cabinet using heatpipe technology instead of fans, which makes it
totally noiseless. The motherboard is ASUS P5B Deluxe/WiFi-AP, Intel
P965 Chipset, 1 Intel Core Duo Extreme processor).

The only difference from the interface you describe below was that a
USB mouse was enabled, so I could click instead of moving with the
tab-key.

Other than that I did exactly as you describe, taking the extra
precaution to actually delete the partitions on my target disk before
starting the Ghost procedure, not to leave the slightest risk of
choosing the wrong source or target disk during the clone.

I then connected my source disk (same type and size as the built-in
internal disk, both brand new) to the SATA 6 socket on the motherboard
(with the internal disk connected to SATA 1) and the cable for the
source disk sticking just outside the cabinet so the source disk could
rest on a box with the cabinet door slightly ajar, using an ordinary
table fan for temporary cooling of the source disk.

Since I was going to boot the cloned disk by just disconnecting the
source drive and switching to the internal drive, I did leave my usual
UBS periferals, such as scanner and printers and USB-hubs as they were
(no USB disks attached though), the idea being that if Windows found
all external units (except the source disk) in the same place as when
the clone was done, everything would be fine when the clone was booted.

Reading your final remarks makes me wonder if this could be the
problem. Should I rather disconnect EVERYTHING except the two disks,
the keyboard and the mouse, before doing the clone, and then
immediately boot the clone and after a (hopefully) successful startup,
adding the periferals one-by-one and let Windows detect them anew?

As you mention, I have sometimes had messages like "Your system
settings have changed. Do you want to restart your computer now?".
However, since the crash leading to the message "Generic Host Process
for Win32 services has encountered a problem and must terminate" always
occurs, I have never gotten as far as being able to do a clean restart.

On the other hand, why would leaving other equipment attached during
cloning and subsequent reboot of the clone, make any difference?

If the cloned disk is an exact copy of the source disk, then how is
booting the clone with all external devices attached (except the
disconnected target disk) different from just booting the source disk
one more time with everything attached (except the disconnected source
disk), which obviously works. How is Windows even able to tell the
difference?

There is something I don't understand here (actually, there are many
things I do not understand)..

Do you have any more clues in light of this message?

Best regards,
-- KW
 
A

Anna

kimwal said:
Anna:

Thank you very much for your long and detailed answer.

Regarding Ghost 2003 I already used a bootable CD and did perfrom the
steps you describe below.

(Since I just bought a full license for Ghost 10 and downloaded it
electronically, I assumed I would be entitled to the old Ghost 2003
also, but couldn't find a way to download it from Symantec's web pages,
and the only phone number I could find to call Symantec in Sweden had a
$40 charge per call (!!). So what I did was borrowing a bootable CD
from the vendor who put my computer together.

By the way, it is a silent computer built into a Zalman TNN 500AF
cabinet using heatpipe technology instead of fans, which makes it
totally noiseless. The motherboard is ASUS P5B Deluxe/WiFi-AP, Intel
P965 Chipset, 1 Intel Core Duo Extreme processor).

The only difference from the interface you describe below was that a
USB mouse was enabled, so I could click instead of moving with the
tab-key.

Other than that I did exactly as you describe, taking the extra
precaution to actually delete the partitions on my target disk before
starting the Ghost procedure, not to leave the slightest risk of
choosing the wrong source or target disk during the clone.

I then connected my source disk (same type and size as the built-in
internal disk, both brand new) to the SATA 6 socket on the motherboard
(with the internal disk connected to SATA 1) and the cable for the
source disk sticking just outside the cabinet so the source disk could
rest on a box with the cabinet door slightly ajar, using an ordinary
table fan for temporary cooling of the source disk.

Since I was going to boot the cloned disk by just disconnecting the
source drive and switching to the internal drive, I did leave my usual
UBS periferals, such as scanner and printers and USB-hubs as they were
(no USB disks attached though), the idea being that if Windows found
all external units (except the source disk) in the same place as when
the clone was done, everything would be fine when the clone was booted.

Reading your final remarks makes me wonder if this could be the
problem. Should I rather disconnect EVERYTHING except the two disks,
the keyboard and the mouse, before doing the clone, and then
immediately boot the clone and after a (hopefully) successful startup,
adding the periferals one-by-one and let Windows detect them anew?

As you mention, I have sometimes had messages like "Your system
settings have changed. Do you want to restart your computer now?".
However, since the crash leading to the message "Generic Host Process
for Win32 services has encountered a problem and must terminate" always
occurs, I have never gotten as far as being able to do a clean restart.

On the other hand, why would leaving other equipment attached during
cloning and subsequent reboot of the clone, make any difference?

If the cloned disk is an exact copy of the source disk, then how is
booting the clone with all external devices attached (except the
disconnected target disk) different from just booting the source disk
one more time with everything attached (except the disconnected source
disk), which obviously works. How is Windows even able to tell the
difference?

There is something I don't understand here (actually, there are many
things I do not understand)..

Do you have any more clues in light of this message?

Best regards,
-- KW


kimwal:
Insofar as deleting the partitions on your destination (target) HDD prior to
the disk cloning operation, this is unnecessary. While there's no harm in
doing so, there is no need to do so.

Similarly, there is no need to disconnect any peripheral devices, e.g.,
printer, scanner, either prior to or subsequent to the disk cloning
operation. As I've indicated in the step-by-step instructions for using the
Ghost 2003 program, it's important that *only* the HDDs that will be used in
the disk cloning operation be connected - no other *storage* devices such as
zip drives, flash drives, etc. should be connected.

And most important - immediately following the disk cloning operation the
source HDD should be disconnected from the system and the initial boot to
the destination HDD (the recipient of the clone - we're assuming it's an
internal HDD) be performed with *only* that HDD connected. (If the recipient
of the clone was a USB/Firewire external HDD there would be no need to
disconnect that device).

You mention you've been getting that "Generic Host Process..." error message
but it's not clear to me if this message is a result of the disk cloning
problem you've been experiencing or whether this message appeared on your
day-to-day working HDD *prior to* the disk cloning operation. If the latter,
might this account for the problem you've been experiencing? On the other
hand if the message appeared on only the newly-cloned HDD *following* the
disk cloning operation then obviously something went awry as a consequence
of the disk cloning operation.

Just to confirm we're "starting on the same page" as it were...

1. Your source HDD, presumably your day-to-day working HDD, boots without
incident and functions without any problems?
2. You've no reason to believe one of your HDDs is defective in any way?
3. You've properly connected your source & destination disks so that the
Ghost program correctly detects both?
4. The disk cloning process proceeds smoothly and without incident?
5. Immediately following the disk cloning operation you disconnect your
source HDD and make the initial boot *only* with the destination HDD
connected?

Hopefully, you've answered "yes" to all the above. If so, I really can't
explain why you're experiencing the problem you describe.
Anna
 
K

kimwal

Anna:

Problem resolved !!

When I read your first message, I knew I had made the initial boot of
the cloned disk with the source disk still connected in some cases (I
did the cloning several times to different disks). But I was also
pretty sure that in some of my failed attempts I had disconnected the
source disk on first boot, and that the Windows crash had been the same
anyway.

However, apparently not. When I repeated the clone with the minimal
number of units attached during disk copy, and then disconnected the
clone before booting the first time, it suddenly worked! And it was
also possible to restore individual Recovery Points made by Ghost 10,
using the same strict disconnect policy.

I don't know if I would ever had thought of this as the root of the
failure if I hadn't had this pointed out to me by your message.

Since Windows knows exactly which disk it is booting from, why on earth
should it bother about other disks in the first place, and much less to
an extent that actually corrupts the installation making it unusable in
all subsequent boots, disks attached or not. This is really a major
gotcha, and I haven't seen it pointed out in the Ghost documentation.

By the way, I am well aware there is no technical need to remove the
partitions on the target disk before making the clone. This is just a
precaution to make it physically impossible for me to accidentally
reverse the disk copies, overwriting the source disk with the contents
of a corrupt target disk resulting from an earlier clone that was
booted incorrectly.

Since both disks are extactly the same with respect to brand, size,
partitioning and 99.99 % of the contents, the only difference I see in
Ghost 2003 is the two unit names disk 1 and disk 2. Of course I assume
that the Ghost boot CD will always assign the first port SATA1 as disk
1 and the other (in my case SATA6) as disk 2, but I don't want to
leave the slightest possibility to operate on the wrong leg.

With a target disk lacking partitions, Ghost will never let you assign
it as source, and therefore it is completely foolproof to just hit
return and choose the defaults until the copying begins.

Again, thank you very much for taking the time to answer me in such
detail. This has driven me frantic, and now I can proceed.

Best regards,
-- Kim
 
A

Anna

kimwal said:
Anna:

Problem resolved !!

When I read your first message, I knew I had made the initial boot of
the cloned disk with the source disk still connected in some cases (I
did the cloning several times to different disks). But I was also
pretty sure that in some of my failed attempts I had disconnected the
source disk on first boot, and that the Windows crash had been the same
anyway.

However, apparently not. When I repeated the clone with the minimal
number of units attached during disk copy, and then disconnected the
clone before booting the first time, it suddenly worked! And it was
also possible to restore individual Recovery Points made by Ghost 10,
using the same strict disconnect policy.

I don't know if I would ever had thought of this as the root of the
failure if I hadn't had this pointed out to me by your message.

Since Windows knows exactly which disk it is booting from, why on earth
should it bother about other disks in the first place, and much less to
an extent that actually corrupts the installation making it unusable in
all subsequent boots, disks attached or not. This is really a major
gotcha, and I haven't seen it pointed out in the Ghost documentation.

By the way, I am well aware there is no technical need to remove the
partitions on the target disk before making the clone. This is just a
precaution to make it physically impossible for me to accidentally
reverse the disk copies, overwriting the source disk with the contents
of a corrupt target disk resulting from an earlier clone that was
booted incorrectly.

Since both disks are extactly the same with respect to brand, size,
partitioning and 99.99 % of the contents, the only difference I see in
Ghost 2003 is the two unit names disk 1 and disk 2. Of course I assume
that the Ghost boot CD will always assign the first port SATA1 as disk
1 and the other (in my case SATA6) as disk 2, but I don't want to
leave the slightest possibility to operate on the wrong leg.

With a target disk lacking partitions, Ghost will never let you assign
it as source, and therefore it is completely foolproof to just hit
return and choose the defaults until the copying begins.

Again, thank you very much for taking the time to answer me in such
detail. This has driven me frantic, and now I can proceed.

Best regards,
-- Kim


Kim:
Glad it all worked out.

I just want to comment on your comment re using Ghost 2003 for disk cloning
when the process involves two identical HDDs. You're absolutely right that
one has to be ultra-cautious in selecting which is the source drive (the HDD
to be cloned) and which is the destination drive (the HDD that will be the
recipient of the clone). Unfortunately, in Ghost 2003 because of that
program's rather cursory way of listing the connected HDDs, if the user
isn't careful about correctly identifying the HDDs involved, he or she could
wind up with disastrous results. Lord knows it's happened to all of us,
usually resulting from our undue haste in trying to quickly get through the
disk cloning operation. You may have noted that in our step-by-step
instructions for using the Ghost 2003 program we particularly stressed this
point.
Anna
 

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