noisy fans

[Tim S.]

Hi all

My el cheapo Dell Dimension 2400 is normally _very_ quiet, which is
exactly why I use it. But lately the fans seem to be going full pelt all
the time and the noise level is starting to annoy me. The weather is
very hot, which is the only factor I can think of. Is that connection
probable and likely? Or is it silly? I don't really know anything about
PC hardware, so I apologise if that's a stupid question.

Could there be some other reason?

TIA

 

[philo]

Hi all

My el cheapo Dell Dimension 2400 is normally _very_ quiet, which is
exactly why I use it. But lately the fans seem to be going full pelt all
the time and the noise level is starting to annoy me. The weather is very
hot, which is the only factor I can think of. Is that connection probable
and likely?

<snip>

that's probably the reason.

 

[kony]

Hi all

My el cheapo Dell Dimension 2400 is normally _very_ quiet, which is
exactly why I use it. But lately the fans seem to be going full pelt all
the time and the noise level is starting to annoy me. The weather is
very hot, which is the only factor I can think of. Is that connection
probable and likely?

It's definite.
There will always be a corresponding system temp rise with a
rise in ambient temp. However, due to quick-n-dirty fan
speed control circuits, often there is a non-linear fan
speed increase relative to the temp increase. There is no
easy solution with an OEM box unless you dont' mind voiding
a warranty (if one remains).

The real solution is to cool down the room. The alternative
is to mod the case for better airflow. Without temp
readings you can't just use a slower fan or slow down that
one, so you'd have some idea what impact it'll have on
temps.

Or is it silly? I don't really know anything about
PC hardware, so I apologise if that's a stupid question.

Could there be some other reason?

Sure, dust buildup. If needed clean it out.

 

[Ken]

My el cheapo Dell Dimension 2400 is normally _very_ quiet, which is
exactly why I use it. But lately the fans seem to be going full pelt all
the time and the noise level is starting to annoy me. The weather is
very hot, which is the only factor I can think of. Is that connection
probable and likely? Or is it silly? I don't really know anything about
PC hardware, so I apologise if that's a stupid question.

Lube the fan or replace it.
http://tekniken.se/docs/image/example/fan01.jpg
http://tekniken.se/docs/image/example/fan02.jpg

 

[kony]

Lube the fan or replace it.
http://tekniken.se/docs/image/example/fan01.jpg
http://tekniken.se/docs/image/example/fan02.jpg

Dells often had ball-bearing fans, which may get no quieter
(sometimes even louder) if lubed. These types of precision,
(somewhat) high-speed ball-bearings unfortunately depend on
a particular viscosity and volume of grease to perform
optimally, and as such lubing will not have nearly the same
benefit as a sleeve-bearing would.

 

[Bob]

Dells often had ball-bearing fans, which may get no quieter
(sometimes even louder) if lubed. These types of precision,
(somewhat) high-speed ball-bearings unfortunately depend on
a particular viscosity and volume of grease to perform
optimally, and as such lubing will not have nearly the same
benefit as a sleeve-bearing would.

The Panaflow we have discussed before has "Hydro-Wave bearing
technology".

"Utilizing the new Hydro-Wave bearing technology, the Panaflo L1
series produces stellar CFM (cubic feet per minute), while being some
of the quietest fans on the market."

I have seen references to "fluid bearings" before. I wonder how they
work.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

Individualism is a political and social philosophy that emphasizes individual
liberty, belief in the primary importance of the individual and in the virtues
of self-reliance and personal independence. It embraces opposition to authority
and to all manner of controls over the individual, especially when exercised by
the state or society. It is thus directly opposed to collectivism.

 

[Ken]

Dells often had ball-bearing fans, which may get no quieter
(sometimes even louder) if lubed.

That's not my experience after lubing a lot of ball-bearing fans.
I don't use thick oil, very thin. They always get quilter.
That's practice, not theory. Dells fans maybe are different?

 

[Bob]

Dells fans maybe are different?

Everything about Dell products is different.

That's either good or bad depending on your pov.

For me it's bad because their proprietary design can get in the way of
creative enhancements.

Even the support is different. If I buy a Epox mainboard in 1999, I
can still get support today. But if you do not have a support contract
with Dell, you are SOL.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

Individualism is a political and social philosophy that emphasizes individual
liberty, belief in the primary importance of the individual and in the virtues
of self-reliance and personal independence. It embraces opposition to authority
and to all manner of controls over the individual, especially when exercised by
the state or society. It is thus directly opposed to collectivism.

 

[kony]

The Panaflow we have discussed before has "Hydro-Wave bearing
technology".

"Utilizing the new Hydro-Wave bearing technology, the Panaflo L1
series produces stellar CFM (cubic feet per minute), while being some
of the quietest fans on the market."

I have seen references to "fluid bearings" before. I wonder how they
work.

The Panaflos have what is essentially a well-designed sleeve
bearing. Some are even closed at the back and can't be
lubed, but regardless they are engineered well enough that
they don't need lubed every year or two like junk
sleeve-bearing fans. They're still sub-optimal for very
high temps though, are therefore not the ideal PSU exhaust
fan.

 

[kony]

That's not my experience after lubing a lot of ball-bearing fans.
I don't use thick oil, very thin. They always get quilter.
That's practice, not theory. Dells fans maybe are different?

I have exactly the opposite experience, have lubed MANY
ball-bearing fans with several viscosities of oil, grease,
even the two mixed together. It almost never benefits them
as by the time a ball-bearing fan is making noise the
bearings are shot and lube doesn't make them round again.
Thin lube usually makes them significantly louder.

Which specific fans have you lubed and do you know who made
the bearings? Among those I've lubed include Superred, Yate
Loon, NMB, old Panaflo (back when they made ball-bearing
PC-sized fans), Sanyo (and probably others, I wasn't trying
to keep track at the time).

 

[kony]

Everything about Dell products is different.

Naw, they usually use regular name-brand fans. I just don't
recall which specific fan is in each model.

That's either good or bad depending on your pov.

For me it's bad because their proprietary design can get in the way of
creative enhancements.

Even the support is different. If I buy a Epox mainboard in 1999, I
can still get support today. But if you do not have a support contract
with Dell, you are SOL.

You're lucky if you can get much support from any
motherboard manufacturer, at least anything in-depth enough
that the info couldn't be found elsewhere.

The biggest hinderance IMO, isn't the proprietary design but
the initial warranty and need to strip system down to do
many types of case mods... I generally prep a case
completely before putting any parts in it, enough so that
there is no question whether it's sufficient, only a
question of how low the fans can be throttled later.

 

[Ken]

I have exactly the opposite experience, have lubed MANY
ball-bearing fans with several viscosities of oil, grease,
even the two mixed together. It almost never benefits them
as by the time a ball-bearing fan is making noise the
bearings are shot and lube doesn't make them round again.
Thin lube usually makes them significantly louder.

Which specific fans have you lubed and do you know who made
the bearings? Among those I've lubed include Superred, Yate
Loon, NMB, old Panaflo (back when they made ball-bearing
PC-sized fans), Sanyo (and probably others, I wasn't trying
to keep track at the time).

I don't make records of all the fans. When they start making
noise after some year I lube them and then they are quite for
many years. If I don't lube them I have to replace them.
Now I lube them once a year to prevent noise.

 

[kony]

I don't make records of all the fans. When they start making
noise after some year I lube them and then they are quite for
many years. If I don't lube them I have to replace them.
Now I lube them once a year to prevent noise.

You must have some really poor fans then, ball bearing fans
should not need lubed for 10 years or more. Are you _sure_
you mean ball-bearing fans with dual bearings, not those
with one ball and one sleeve bearing?

Right now I could randomly grab a perfectly working new fan
and bet money that if I put light oil in the bearing that
it'd get at least 2X as loud.

 

[Ken]

You must have some really poor fans then, ball bearing fans
should not need lubed for 10 years or more. Are you _sure_
you mean ball-bearing fans with dual bearings, not those
with one ball and one sleeve bearing?

I have not put them apart to check if it is dual or not.

Right now I could randomly grab a perfectly working new fan
and bet money that if I put light oil in the bearing that
it'd get at least 2X as loud.

I never lube new fans, only used fans that is very noisy
after one year or two. There is no need to lube new fans.

 

[kony]

I have not put them apart to check if it is dual or not.

This could be where the difference is, that some fans merely
labeled as "ball bearing" actually have one sleeve bearing
in them. IMO it's a bit deceptive how they label them,
personally I'd prefer one large sleeve or dual ball over a
ball/sleeve combo.

I never lube new fans, only used fans that is very noisy
after one year or two. There is no need to lube new fans.

I agree that a new fan doesn'_yet_ need lubed. However, I
sometimes do so anyway. For example if a component has a
rare fan not easily replaced and a sleeve bearing, I may
lube it initially. Doing so has resulted in even some poor
fans running for several years before needing relubed, and
they wear less during the interim. However, I use thicker
lube, not quite grease but never light oil which tends to
run out of the bearings too easily.

 

[ric]

I don't make records of all the fans. When they start making
noise after some year I lube them and then they are quite for
many years. If I don't lube them I have to replace them.
Now I lube them once a year to prevent noise.

Must be sleeve bearing fans. Ball bearing fans only get
noisier when a bearing goes out of round. Lubing won't
help that.

 

[ric]

I never lube new fans, only used fans that is very noisy
after one year or two. There is no need to lube new fans.

If they get noisy when they are only a year or two old,
they are likely sleeve bearing - not ball bearing - fans.

 

[Bob]

If they get noisy when they are only a year or two old,
they are likely sleeve bearing - not ball bearing - fans.

Although I am one who always tries to save a buck or two, wouldn't it
be more prudent to replace the fans with high-quality units and be
done with it.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

Individualism is a political and social philosophy that emphasizes individual
liberty, belief in the primary importance of the individual and in the virtues
of self-reliance and personal independence. It embraces opposition to authority
and to all manner of controls over the individual, especially when exercised by
the state or society. It is thus directly opposed to collectivism.

 

[Floyd L. Davidson]

If they get noisy when they are only a year or two old,
they are likely sleeve bearing - not ball bearing - fans.

It depends on the oil too, not just the bearing type.

I've seen new ball bearing fans get noisy within a year or two
and be saved by lubrication. The problem appears to be poor
quality original lubrication. A single small drop of light oil
on the bearings was enough. Replacement fans were ordered,
because it was fully expected that a total failure would happen
with weeks. That has been nearly two years now, and the
original fans are still in place and showing no sign of failure.

The point of a *light* lube is mostly just to mix with the
original lube and allow it to flow. It appears that the problem
was just the lube drying up and not flowing into the bearing
surfaces. With the right kind of oil, no problem...

 

[kony]

Although I am one who always tries to save a buck or two, wouldn't it
be more prudent to replace the fans with high-quality units and be
done with it.

Yes, if not avoiding them in the first place.
However, that's often easier written than done. For example
many video cards or northbridges have proprietary fans.
Some non-"PC" equipment have fans with rotor lock sensor
instead of RPM (more difficult and/or costly to find a
replacement for).

Plus, consider that it's not always under our control. If
someone brings me a PC with a failed or noisey fan, that's
the first time I've had a chance to do anything with the
fan, ie- someone else bought junk and then let it wear out.
We can generally assume the average PC user does not know
the differences in fans and does not preemptively lube them.
I'd be fine with having all junk fan manufacturers go out of
business due to nobody wanting to buy a product using junk
fans, but alas the average consumer too often buys based on
price, particularly when they can't discriminate the
difference.