No Wireless Connectivity after SP2, Hardwire OK

[Guest]

I have two lap tops that can be connected to a linksys router that is
connected to a microwave modem on the roof. If either Laptop is connected
via an ethernet cable, everything works great. If I try to connect
wirelessly to the router, the icon indicates "connected" with ample signal
strength but I do not have access to the internet. All indications are that
I've connected through the router wirelessly just as I can via the cable, but
I'm not even able to ping the router via wireless since the SP2 update. Is
there some sort of utility that can help me figure out where I'm failing to
connect via wireless?
On another note, XP Pro has been working flawlessly for me for some time. I
guess Microsoft was afraid of losing their grasp on the "frequent crashes"
reputation and released an update that crashes my system quite frequently now.
I'm glad they don't deliver avionics software.

 

[Hans-Georg Michna]

I have two lap tops that can be connected to a linksys router that is
connected to a microwave modem on the roof. If either Laptop is connected
via an ethernet cable, everything works great. If I try to connect
wirelessly to the router, the icon indicates "connected" with ample signal
strength but I do not have access to the internet. All indications are that
I've connected through the router wirelessly just as I can via the cable, but
I'm not even able to ping the router via wireless since the SP2 update. Is
there some sort of utility that can help me figure out where I'm failing to
connect via wireless?
On another note, XP Pro has been working flawlessly for me for some time. I
guess Microsoft was afraid of losing their grasp on the "frequent crashes"
reputation and released an update that crashes my system quite frequently now.
I'm glad they don't deliver avionics software.

Please have a look at http://www.michna.com/kb/wxnet.htm.

Hans-Georg

 

[Joakim]

-----Original Message-----
I have two lap tops that can be connected to a linksys router that is
connected to a microwave modem on the roof. If either Laptop is connected
via an ethernet cable, everything works great. If I try to connect
wirelessly to the router, the icon indicates "connected" with ample signal
strength but I do not have access to the internet. All indications are that
I've connected through the router wirelessly just as I can via the cable, but
I'm not even able to ping the router via wireless since the SP2 update. Is
there some sort of utility that can help me figure out where I'm failing to
connect via wireless?
On another note, XP Pro has been working flawlessly for me for some time. I
guess Microsoft was afraid of losing their grasp on the "frequent crashes"
reputation and released an update that crashes my system quite frequently now.
I'm glad they don't deliver avionics software.
.

I have the very same problem, more specifically with a D-
Link card (DWL-G520+). I sat half an hour in discussions
with D-Link yesterday, and they claimed to have
investigated the issue, arriving at the conclusion that
the drivers (2.02) were fine, and that there is something
in SP2 that is breaking the functionality. They also
noted that netgear and some other companies have the same
problem with SP2, as I have also seen in some forums.
So, the router companies blame Microsoft, and according
to some other post here Microsoft blames the drivers from
the companies. So who should fix it? - It's the customers
that suffer from this situation. Since the drivers worked
flawlessly before, my conclusion is that Microsoft needs
to pick up the que here. Either by issuing a fix for this
ASAP, or at least investigating what D-Link, Netgear and
others are doing wrong in their drivers, and how to make
them SP2 compatible.

Hans-Georg: Your page is excellent! - Unfortunately I've
spent hours following your suggestions without being able
to fix this problem. If I've missed something I would
only be happy if you could specifically answer what to do
to fix the problem, otherwise I have to conclude that
your reference to your page unfortunately only takes the
light from the problem, suggesting that something that we
can't fix on our own is fixable

If anyone else have any suggestions on how to fix this, I
would be immensely happy!
For the record:
ping localhost works fine, DHCP works fine, everything
looks like it's in order (using ipconfig), the firewall
is not the problem, and other ("normal", non-wireless)
NICs work just fine. Resetting the winsock2 doesn't fix
it either. Pinging the router/NAT or the internet does
NOT work, and as the previous poster said: No
communication whatsoever other than DHCP works over the
wireless.

Kind regards to all
Joakim

 

[Hans-Georg Michna]

Hans-Georg: Your page is excellent! - Unfortunately I've
spent hours following your suggestions without being able
to fix this problem. If I've missed something I would
only be happy if you could specifically answer what to do
to fix the problem, otherwise I have to conclude that
your reference to your page unfortunately only takes the
light from the problem, suggesting that something that we
can't fix on our own is fixable

Joakim,

thanks for the good words! The page
(http://www.michna.com/kb/wxnet.htm) aims at fixing 90% of all
small network problems. Of course there will always be a few
oddball problems that it cannot solve. Same for the special SP2
installation and post-installation page
(http://www.michna.com/kb/WxSP2.htm).

But let's see what it turns out to be at the end in your case. I
wouldn't be surprised at all if the solution were right there on
that page. My first guess is still the driver update or third
party configuration software removal. My second guess is that
the router firmware needs updating.

What I would try first is to uninstall the wireless network
adapter driver entirely, along with all configuration software
you might have installed. Then reboot, let PnP detect the card
again and install the driver. If you cannot get a new driver,
you have to try the old one again.

One company that keeps appearing suspiciously frequently with
problems in the newsgroups is Linksys. I don't know their
products, but I suspect that they may be about the cheapest you
can get. Is that so?

Could you borrow equipment from another manufacturer for a test?
If possible from a manufacturer with a good reputation and not
exactly the cheapest? I wouldn't be surprised at all if that
worked out of the box.

Hans-Georg

 

[Joakim]

Hi Hans-Georg!

thanks for the good words! The page
(http://www.michna.com/kb/wxnet.htm) aims at fixing 90% of all
small network problems. Of course there will always be a few
oddball problems that it cannot solve. Same for the special SP2
installation and post-installation page
(http://www.michna.com/kb/WxSP2.htm).

But let's see what it turns out to be at the end in your case. I
wouldn't be surprised at all if the solution were right there on
that page. My first guess is still the driver update or third
party configuration software removal. My second guess is that
the router firmware needs updating.

Yeah, that is my best guess too. I failed to mention that
I have a laptop with a wireless NIC and SP2 installed as
well, and that works without a problem (don't remember
which manufacturer of the NIC there, but it's a standard
HP configuration...).
So the router firmware should be fine. It probably IS D-
Link that is just blaming microsoft instead of updating
the driver for the problematic NIC in my stationary...
My frustration is based on the fact that both D-Link and
Microsoft seem to blame each other, and I was hoping that
someone had figured out a way around the problem while
they sort it out (if ever). But it looks like I just have
to uninstall SP2

What I would try first is to uninstall the wireless network
adapter driver entirely, along with all configuration software
you might have installed. Then reboot, let PnP detect the card
again and install the driver. If you cannot get a new driver,
you have to try the old one again.

Yup, already done that. It occured to me that there is
one thing that I put off for later though, if every thing
else fails, and that is as you suggested to download the
full SP2 and re-install it. - I'll do that today, and
post back here with the result.

One company that keeps appearing suspiciously frequently with
problems in the newsgroups is Linksys. I don't know their
products, but I suspect that they may be about the cheapest you
can get. Is that so?

Don't know much about Linksys, but yeah, their products
are pretty cheap. D-Links products are pretty cheap as
well, and I've had lots of problems with them before...

Could you borrow equipment from another manufacturer for a test?
If possible from a manufacturer with a good reputation and not
exactly the cheapest? I wouldn't be surprised at all if that
worked out of the box.

Yup, as I mentioned: My laptop works just fine with a
wireless NIC and SP2...

Anyway, thanks for your effort, and hope I and all the
others that have problems with NICs after SP2 will
eventually get an answer to this

Joakim

 

[Trent©]

Anyway, thanks for your effort, and hope I and all the
others that have problems with NICs after SP2 will
eventually get an answer to this

Joakim

I don't see how we can blame this on anybody but MSFT.

Computer works...with sp1.

Computer doesn't work...with sp2.

I think its pretty obvious.

I have problems with sp2, also...as do many others. I use a program
called LanTalk. With sp2, I can't see any other computers on the LAN.
With sp1...no problem.

Stay tuned for sp3! lol


Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

 

[Joakim]

Hiya!

I don't see how we can blame this on anybody but MSFT.

Computer works...with sp1.

Computer doesn't work...with sp2.

I think its pretty obvious.

I have problems with sp2, also...as do many others. I use a program
called LanTalk. With sp2, I can't see any other computers on the LAN.
With sp1...no problem.

Stay tuned for sp3! lol

Yes, I can agree to that too. If it worked before, and
Microsoft makes it not work through a SP, microsoft
should take care of the problem. On the other hand, it's
always been the other way around: Microsoft does
something like issuing an update, or a new operating
system, and every other vendor has to scramble to fix
their drivers, often without much help from MS...Oh well.

Anyway, uninstalled SP2 yesterday, and my connection
works just fine again, surprise surprise.
I never got around to DLing the full install and try it
again, and I don't think I will until either MS or D-Link
issues a fix for this.

Cheers,
Joakim

 

[Hans-Georg Michna]

I don't see how we can blame this on anybody but MSFT.

Computer works...with sp1.

Computer doesn't work...with sp2.

I think its pretty obvious.

Trent,

not quite. SP2 closes a number of holes and tightens security.
If you need one of those holes open, you have to reopen it by
hand.

Let me give you an example. SP2 uses some processor features
fully that hadn't been used before, such as DEP (Data Execution
Prevention). If your hardware is flakey, it may have run without
SP2, but with SP2 it will fall on its nose.

Some motherboard manufacturers neglected to include the matching
microcode for certain processors like the Intel Prescott in
their BIOS. (Yes, the BIOS is used to patch microcode defects.)
Consequently, those microprocessors ran with buggy microcode and
some of their commands didn't work properly. Windows XP before
SP2 didn't use these commands, but SP2 exercizes them.
Consequently the computers fail after SP2 installation. Whose
fault is this?

I have problems with sp2, also...as do many others.

Some others. Most people have no problem with SP2.

I use a program
called LanTalk. With sp2, I can't see any other computers on the LAN.
With sp1...no problem.

Ask the manufacturer for an upgrade. Most manufacturers, whose
software was incompatible, provide SP2 compatible upgrades.

Stay tuned for sp3! lol

If and when there will be an SP3, it will not change these
things. You'd better solve the problems right now and run SP2.
It's not really difficult. Just read
http://www.michna.com/kb/WxWP2.htm and most likely solve your
problems with the information given on that page.

Hans-Georg

 

[Hans-Georg Michna]

Yes, I can agree to that too. If it worked before, and
Microsoft makes it not work through a SP, microsoft
should take care of the problem.

Joakim,

not in all cases. If your computer is defective, that's not
Microsoft's fault.

Another case is a new feature in SP2 that needs to be set up
properly. For example, SP2 installs an improved firewall and
closes it by default. This is Microsoft's only choice, given the
number of worms and viruses currently on the prowl. Consider
that the time until an unprotected computer is infected from the
Internet is currently 16 minutes. That may not be enough, for
example, to download protection against new viruses.

Microsoft's only choice is to close the doors on computers run
by people who are not conversant with things like a firewall.

Now if you want to use File and Printer Sharing, you have to
open that hole in the firewall. It is not difficult, only a
check mark in the firewall dialog. But you have to do it.

Microsoft is a wonderful target to blame every problem on, but
it's not always fully justified.

Hans-Georg

 

[Trent©]

Hiya!


Yes, I can agree to that too. If it worked before, and
Microsoft makes it not work through a SP, microsoft
should take care of the problem. On the other hand, it's
always been the other way around: Microsoft does
something like issuing an update, or a new operating
system, and every other vendor has to scramble to fix
their drivers, often without much help from MS...Oh well.

Interestingly enough, we don't have these kinds of problems with
Windows 2000. I'm on sp4 now...and no problems like folks are having
on xp.

Anyway, uninstalled SP2 yesterday, and my connection
works just fine again, surprise surprise.
I never got around to DLing the full install and try it
again, and I don't think I will until either MS or D-Link
issues a fix for this.

SP2 really isn't necessary, Joakim...as far as I'm concerned. And as
far as a LOT of people are concerned also. As a matter of fact, a lot
of folks have even stayed with 98. I put my 98 disk in the other
day...and boy was it nice. No stop errors or any dump thing like
that.

Stop errors. I wonder what college grad decided THAT was necessary!
lol

I'm stickin' with sp1 for my runnin' machine...sp2 for my playin'
machine. My GOOD machine runs 2000! lol


Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

 

[Trent©]

Trent,

not quite. SP2 closes a number of holes and tightens security.
If you need one of those holes open, you have to reopen it by
hand.

Is it sp2 in general?...or is it the firewall? I don't run the
firewall. So I don't think its a security issue. I just think its an
incompatibility problem.

Let me give you an example. SP2 uses some processor features
fully that hadn't been used before, such as DEP (Data Execution
Prevention). If your hardware is flakey, it may have run without
SP2, but with SP2 it will fall on its nose.

Yeah...another really dumb idea. Not as dumb as stop errors, though!
lol

Some motherboard manufacturers neglected to include the matching
microcode for certain processors like the Intel Prescott in
their BIOS. (Yes, the BIOS is used to patch microcode defects.)
Consequently, those microprocessors ran with buggy microcode and
some of their commands didn't work properly. Windows XP before
SP2 didn't use these commands, but SP2 exercizes them.
Consequently the computers fail after SP2 installation. Whose
fault is this?

Are you trying to tell me that msft didn't anticipate the fallout from
this incompatibility?

Some others. Most people have no problem with SP2.

Yer probably correct. So far, only people on the problem-programs
list should have problems. I wonder how many million that is?

And then there's guys like me...who use programs like LanTalk that
aren't all that popular.

Ask the manufacturer for an upgrade. Most manufacturers, whose
software was incompatible, provide SP2 compatible upgrades.

I wonder how many residential, ordinary folk know how to diagnose and
install these kinds of updates. On my bench computer alone, there's a
dozen or so that I would need to upgrade.

My choise...upgrade dozens...or not install one.

If and when there will be an SP3, it will not change these
things. You'd better solve the problems right now and run SP2.
It's not really difficult. Just read
http://www.michna.com/kb/WxWP2.htm and most likely solve your
problems with the information given on that page.

Hans-Georg

I want to compliment you on your page, Hans. You really put a lot of
work into it...and did a good job.

But YER a perfect example of what's goin' on. Even YOU don't know how
to answer and SOLVE most of the queries posted here. So for most of
your posts, you simply suggest folks go to your home page...and solve
the problem THEMSELVES.

Even YER overwhelmed, I think. lol

I think Zone Alarm has the right idea. At the beginning of the
install, disable all the sp2 stuff that you can!




Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

 

[Hans-Georg Michna]

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:26:27 +0200, Hans-Georg Michna

Is it sp2 in general?...or is it the firewall? I don't run the
firewall. So I don't think its a security issue. I just think its an
incompatibility problem.

Trent,

it is not only the firewall. SP2 closes some other security
holes as well.

Yeah...another really dumb idea. Not as dumb as stop errors, though!
lol

I don't know which idea you mean. DEP is actually a bright idea,
otherwise the processor manufacturers (Intel, AMD) wouldn't
build it into their newer processors. A really dumb idea would
be to have such a processor and not use this ability.

If working well, it would put paid to the buffer overrun
exploits that many viruses use to infect a computer. The virus
feeds an oversized data block in the knowledge that the extra
tail will overwrite some program code. Then it will try to
execute that program code. With DEP, the processor marks the
data block as data and rejects any attempt to execute it as a
program.

These are stop errors. If you enable DEP and a driver falls foul
of it, the machine stops. Driver faults always halt the
computer, because the drivers run in ring 0 of the processor
security hierarchy for performance reasons. Microsoft once tried
to let graphics drivers run in ring 3 (user level) in early
versions of Windows NT, but they had to give that up quickly,
because it was too slow.

Are you trying to tell me that msft didn't anticipate the fallout from
this incompatibility?

I don't know, but the culprits are the motherboard
manufacturers, who deliver motherboards that do not fulfill the
processor specification. That's not just a defect, it is such a
shoddy design that I would hesitate to buy from one of those
manufacturers again. You can find a short list of some of the
affected motherboards in http://www.michna.com/kb/WxSP2.htm.

Yer probably correct. So far, only people on the problem-programs
list should have problems. I wonder how many million that is?

And then there's guys like me...who use programs like LanTalk that
aren't all that popular.

But quite a few of the problem programs only needed to be
unblocked in the firewall, so the problems were not severe. Some
had bigger problems though.

Anyway, that's how it is. I'm not happy with this either, but
Microsoft genuinely tried to do their best. They've been blamed
for insecurity, now that they tighten security, they are blamed
for just the opposite. They always have the choice of being shot
or hanged.

I wonder how many residential, ordinary folk know how to diagnose and
install these kinds of updates. On my bench computer alone, there's a
dozen or so that I would need to upgrade.

My choise...upgrade dozens...or not install one.

That's a general problem. I think today's computers aren't
really usable for the vast majority of users who are not
technically oriented. The software is far to complex, too
unstable, too unreliable. Perhaps most users would be better off
buying a good PDA (Personal Digital Assistant), where the
software is simple and indestructibly burned in. I'm sure we
cannot go the current path for much longer, but I cannot foresee
the next 10 years. Am very curious though.

I want to compliment you on your page, Hans. You really put a lot of
work into it...and did a good job.

Thanks, I do what I can.

But YER a perfect example of what's goin' on. Even YOU don't know how
to answer and SOLVE most of the queries posted here. So for most of
your posts, you simply suggest folks go to your home page...and solve
the problem THEMSELVES.

Even YER overwhelmed, I think. lol

True. That's why I make these pages. Consider that I do all this
in my free time. Writing a newsgroup message takes a couple of
minutes, and there are hundreds of new messages here in this
newsgroup every day.

My latest experiment, the Small Network Troubleshooter at
http://www.michna.com/kb/wxnet.htm, tries to make the
troubleshooting semi-automatic. The problem is that it asks some
diligence, time (several minutes), and precision of the user.

Hans-Georg