Nikon LS50 and Nikonscan 4.

[Mike Engles]

Hello

I have been trying to scan a pretty dark Kodachrome on a new LS50 with
Scan 4.
I can get a pretty good looking image in preview.
The resulting scan bears no relationship to the preview.
Admittedly the preview used some extreme curves values.
I emailed Nikon UK, but got a pretty useless answer.
They suggested that I turn off ICE.
If they had bothered to actually look at the images they would have seen
that ICE was not in use. I sent them a screen grab of the preview.

http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/Preview.jpg


http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/scan.jpg

Has anyone come across such a problem?
I don't remember having such a problem with the LS40
The final scan is very grainy and has pronounced purple cast.



Mike Engles

 

[Kennedy McEwen]

Hello

I have been trying to scan a pretty dark Kodachrome on a new LS50 with
Scan 4.
I can get a pretty good looking image in preview.
The resulting scan bears no relationship to the preview.
Admittedly the preview used some extreme curves values.
I emailed Nikon UK, but got a pretty useless answer.
They suggested that I turn off ICE.
If they had bothered to actually look at the images they would have seen
that ICE was not in use. I sent them a screen grab of the preview.

http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/Preview.jpg


http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/scan.jpg

Does the same change between preview and final scan show up in
NikonScan, rather than between NS and PS? My approach to this would be
to eliminate as many variables as possible, so load the image back into
NS and check it against PS.

Are you using the same monitor profile in PS and NS?

 

[Mike Engles]

Does the same change between preview and final scan show up in
NikonScan, rather than between NS and PS? My approach to this would be
to eliminate as many variables as possible, so load the image back into
NS and check it against PS.

Are you using the same monitor profile in PS and NS?
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

Hello

I use the same Adobe monitor ICM in Photoshop CS and Nikonscan as well
as the Colourspace.

I have just done the same exercise in NikonScan standalone and the
results are the same.
I have the same result if I do not use the extreme curve, but 1 ROC and
27 DEE.

I have the same result if I change my Colourspace to Scanner RGB or if I
turn off Colour Management.


http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/Preview.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/2Scan.jpg

Mike Engles

 

[Jean]

| > >
| > >I have been trying to scan a pretty dark Kodachrome on a new LS50 with
| > >Scan 4.
| > >I can get a pretty good looking image in preview.
| > >The resulting scan bears no relationship to the preview.
| > >Admittedly the preview used some extreme curves values.
| > >I emailed Nikon UK, but got a pretty useless answer.
| > >They suggested that I turn off ICE.
| > >If they had bothered to actually look at the images they would have
seen
| > >that ICE was not in use. I sent them a screen grab of the preview.
| > >
| > >http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/Preview.jpg
| > >
| > >
| > >http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/scan.jpg
|
|...snip
|
| I use the same Adobe monitor ICM in Photoshop CS and Nikonscan as well
| as the Colourspace.
|
| I have just done the same exercise in NikonScan standalone and the
| results are the same.
| I have the same result if I do not use the extreme curve, but 1 ROC and
| 27 DEE.
|
| I have the same result if I change my Colourspace to Scanner RGB or if I
| turn off Colour Management.
|
|
| http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/Preview.jpg
|
| http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/2Scan.jpg
|
| Mike Engles


Try turning off ROC. When I archived all my old old KK slides, I
occasionally found that ROC would result in a surprisingly off-color scan.
It was almost as if the software was imposing a color profile on the final
scan results (even though I always use "scanner RGB" as the color space). I
never could figure it out, so I just stopped using ROC except for those
cases where quality was not an issue.

Jean

 

[Mike Engles]

| > >
| > >I have been trying to scan a pretty dark Kodachrome on a new LS50 with
| > >Scan 4.
| > >I can get a pretty good looking image in preview.
| > >The resulting scan bears no relationship to the preview.
| > >Admittedly the preview used some extreme curves values.
| > >I emailed Nikon UK, but got a pretty useless answer.
| > >They suggested that I turn off ICE.
| > >If they had bothered to actually look at the images they would have
seen
| > >that ICE was not in use. I sent them a screen grab of the preview.
| > >
| > >http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/Preview.jpg
| > >
| > >
| > >http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/scan.jpg
|
|...snip
|
| I use the same Adobe monitor ICM in Photoshop CS and Nikonscan as well
| as the Colourspace.
|
| I have just done the same exercise in NikonScan standalone and the
| results are the same.
| I have the same result if I do not use the extreme curve, but 1 ROC and
| 27 DEE.
|
| I have the same result if I change my Colourspace to Scanner RGB or if I
| turn off Colour Management.
|
|
| http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/Preview.jpg
|
| http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/2Scan.jpg
|
| Mike Engles

Try turning off ROC. When I archived all my old old KK slides, I
occasionally found that ROC would result in a surprisingly off-color scan.
It was almost as if the software was imposing a color profile on the final
scan results (even though I always use "scanner RGB" as the color space). I
never could figure it out, so I just stopped using ROC except for those
cases where quality was not an issue.

Jean

Hello

I think you might be right about ROC, but it does help to bring out a
very dark image.

What it does not explain is why there is such a difference between
preview and scan. This scan perfectly well on my Epson 4870, of course
not as sharply.

Mike Engles

 

[Jean]

| Jean wrote:
| >
| > | > | > >
| > | > >I have been trying to scan a pretty dark Kodachrome on a new LS50
with
| > | > >Scan 4.
| > | > >I can get a pretty good looking image in preview.
| > | > >The resulting scan bears no relationship to the preview.
| > | > >Admittedly the preview used some extreme curves values.
| > | > >I emailed Nikon UK, but got a pretty useless answer.
| > | > >They suggested that I turn off ICE.
| > | > >If they had bothered to actually look at the images they would
have
| > seen
| > | > >that ICE was not in use. I sent them a screen grab of the preview.
| > |
| > |...snip
| > |
| > | I use the same Adobe monitor ICM in Photoshop CS and Nikonscan as
well
| > | as the Colourspace.
| > |
| > | I have just done the same exercise in NikonScan standalone and the
| > | results are the same.
| > | I have the same result if I do not use the extreme curve, but 1 ROC
and
| > | 27 DEE.
| > |
| > | I have the same result if I change my Colourspace to Scanner RGB or
if I
| > | turn off Colour Management.
| > |
| > |
| > | http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/Preview.jpg
| > |
| > | http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/2Scan.jpg
| > |
| > | Mike Engles
| >
| > Try turning off ROC. When I archived all my old old KK slides, I
| > occasionally found that ROC would result in a surprisingly off-color
scan.
| > It was almost as if the software was imposing a color profile on the
final
| > scan results (even though I always use "scanner RGB" as the color
space). I
| > never could figure it out, so I just stopped using ROC except for those
| > cases where quality was not an issue.
| >
| > Jean
|
|
| Hello
|
| I think you might be right about ROC, but it does help to bring out a
| very dark image.
|
| What it does not explain is why there is such a difference between
| preview and scan. This scan perfectly well on my Epson 4870, of course
| not as sharply.
|
| Mike Engles

It could just be poor implementation and/or assumptions in the ROC
software. It was quite some time ago that I experienced this problem, but I
seem to recall that the preview would look fine, but the final scan would
look garish (color-wise) and the contrast would be too high. My guess at
the time was that the software was assuming a specific color space or
scanner profile or color balance that happened to be way off from reality.
Did you check out the Photo.net forums to see if anyone there has had the
same problem?

Jean

 

[Mike Engles]

| Jean wrote:
| >
| > | > | > >
| > | > >I have been trying to scan a pretty dark Kodachrome on a new LS50
with
| > | > >Scan 4.
| > | > >I can get a pretty good looking image in preview.
| > | > >The resulting scan bears no relationship to the preview.
| > | > >Admittedly the preview used some extreme curves values.
| > | > >I emailed Nikon UK, but got a pretty useless answer.
| > | > >They suggested that I turn off ICE.
| > | > >If they had bothered to actually look at the images they would
have
| > seen
| > | > >that ICE was not in use. I sent them a screen grab of the preview.
| > |
| > |...snip
| > |
| > | I use the same Adobe monitor ICM in Photoshop CS and Nikonscan as
well
| > | as the Colourspace.
| > |
| > | I have just done the same exercise in NikonScan standalone and the
| > | results are the same.
| > | I have the same result if I do not use the extreme curve, but 1 ROC
and
| > | 27 DEE.
| > |
| > | I have the same result if I change my Colourspace to Scanner RGB or
if I
| > | turn off Colour Management.
| > |
| > |
| > | http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/Preview.jpg
| > |
| > | http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/2Scan.jpg
| > |
| > | Mike Engles
| >
| > Try turning off ROC. When I archived all my old old KK slides, I
| > occasionally found that ROC would result in a surprisingly off-color
scan.
| > It was almost as if the software was imposing a color profile on the
final
| > scan results (even though I always use "scanner RGB" as the color
space). I
| > never could figure it out, so I just stopped using ROC except for those
| > cases where quality was not an issue.
| >
| > Jean
|
|
| Hello
|
| I think you might be right about ROC, but it does help to bring out a
| very dark image.
|
| What it does not explain is why there is such a difference between
| preview and scan. This scan perfectly well on my Epson 4870, of course
| not as sharply.
|
| Mike Engles

It could just be poor implementation and/or assumptions in the ROC
software. It was quite some time ago that I experienced this problem, but I
seem to recall that the preview would look fine, but the final scan would
look garish (color-wise) and the contrast would be too high. My guess at
the time was that the software was assuming a specific color space or
scanner profile or color balance that happened to be way off from reality.
Did you check out the Photo.net forums to see if anyone there has had the
same problem?

Jean

Hello

I have not checked, but I have to still ask why it does not happen in
preview, because ROC GEM and DEE are all previewed.
The excess contrast and off colours are worst in the shadows.

I have the same problems with All the above off, but extreme curve.
When I preview a E6 film the shadows look and measure neutral.
Using the tools generally keep the neutrality.
With Kodachrome all sorts of nonlinearity creeps in when the tool are
used.

Mike Engles

 

[degrub]

Also could be related to the number of pixels used for the preview
correction versus the final scan correction.

Frank

 

[Mike Engles]

Also could be related to the number of pixels used for the preview
correction versus the final scan correction.

Frank

Hello

That could be possible, but that then negates the whole idea of a
preview. One might as well just scan at high bit and do the processing
after. The difference is very marked. Also I am sure the same problem
would occur if I scanned at 100 DPI, so the preview and final scan had
the same number of pixels. I will try that.

Mike Engles

 

[Maris V. Lidaka Sr.]

I barely use and know NikonScan, but I have an alternate suggestion. The
shadows (esp. on the boats on the left and the right) are much too deep.
Try Vuescan to bring out the detail, then adjust the appropriate black and
white points and the color in your graphics software.

http://www.hamrick.com/vsm.html

Free trial download, but if you buy, buy the "Professional" edition.

Maris

 

[Mike Engles]

I barely use and know NikonScan, but I have an alternate suggestion. The
shadows (esp. on the boats on the left and the right) are much too deep.
Try Vuescan to bring out the detail, then adjust the appropriate black and
white points and the color in your graphics software.

http://www.hamrick.com/vsm.html

Free trial download, but if you buy, buy the "Professional" edition.

Maris

Hello

Certainly Vuescan Demo deals with this slide a bit better.
It has other problems with other slides, especially blues.

Mike Engles